Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Kazaa on December 10, 2010, 12:39:50 PM
-
Because it was the bestest and I can't go on any longer without it. :cry
The Vc was a "DA special"
-
I really wouldnt mind having the Vc in the game again :D
-
+1
Levi might come back then.
-
+1
-
Please explain... Must have been before my time.
:salute
Way
-
Please explain... Must have been before my time.
:salute
Way
The SpitV that we have now used to be alot more effective an airplane. You could consider it the Spit8 of the old days (somewhat exaggerating there) iirc it had 240 hispano rounds instead of 120 (i never flew it but alot of others did)
-
Was there some other difference besides the lightened ammo load?
-
Was there some other difference besides the lightened ammo load?
boost 18 lb
-
It looked like a Vb but flew with the ammo of a Vc and the Performance of an LFV.
The Seafire we have is essentially a Royal Navy version of the Spitfire Vc
-
boost 18 lb
16
-
Why do we no longer have it?
-
Why do we no longer have it?
Probally the same reason they took the g10 away
-
It looked like a Vb but flew with the ammo of a Vc and the Performance of an LFV.
The Seafire we have is essentially a Royal Navy version of the Spitfire Vc
so we do have it. but we dont know we do.
semp
-
It looked like a Vb but flew with the ammo of a Vc and the Performance of an LFV.
The Seafire we have is essentially a Royal Navy version of the Spitfire Vc
The Seafire doesn't fly like the old Vc though, at least that I can remember. Not to mention we can have a clipped Vc. :D
Guppy, you down for a clipped 42 Spitfire.
-
Ah.....can we just have a new 16 with a bauble canopy and 4 20mm :devil :bolt:
-
Ah.....can we just have a new 16 with a bauble canopy and 4 20mm :devil :bolt:
XVI never had 4x20mm.
-
XVI never had 4x20mm.
XVI never had an air to air kill :noid :bolt:
-
XVI never had 4x20mm.
I'm pretty sure it did.
XVI never had an air to air kill :noid :bolt:
Don't know for a fact but that sounds about right.
-
I'm pretty sure it did.
Don't know for a fact but that sounds about right.
I've checked lol, Im not a fan of spits unless it's a XI
-
Sure, pick the spit 16 and the spit 9 and trade it in for this spit.
-
XVI never had an air to air kill :noid :bolt:
We had this discussion before, and you are wrong on that.
-
I'm pretty sure it did.
Don't know for a fact but that sounds about right.
You'd be wrong as well. Spit XVI production run were all E wings with 2 20mm and 2 50 cal.
I do realize that you gents are somewhat new to this WW2 aviation history stuff, but I do wish you'd take more then a short glance around the web before making these pronouncements that are not close to the truth.
-
You'd be wrong as well. Spit XVI production run were all E wings with 2 20mm and 2 50 cal.
I do realize that you gents are somewhat new to this WW2 aviation history stuff, but I do wish you'd take more then a short glance around the web before making these pronouncements that are not close to the truth.
I'll get back to you with a specific source.
-
I'm pretty sure it did.
Don't know for a fact but that sounds about right.
I know a few Spit V's had 4x20mm cannon but it was felt that the loadout wasn't needed.
I remember someone telling me a story of a few Spit drivers who still tried to field mount 4x20mm none the less.
Infact, I've started to do as Guppy said and did research for myself.
-
I'll get back to you with a specific source.
LOL no need. I have all the Spit resources. Trust me on this one. I've been a Spit fanatic since the late 70s. I'm telling you, without a doubt that the Spit XVI did not carry 4 cannons.
There was one ground attack squadron in Italy, flying Spitfire Vc with 4 cannon, and they also had the large tropical filter under the nose. They were ground attack, not air to air.
The Malta Spit Vc that were delivered by carrier launched with 4 cannon but had 2 removed as soon as they got to Malta. The performance loss was not worth the extra 2 cannon. As was said at the time, if you can't hit em with 2 cannon, 4 isn't going to do you any good. Again, these Spit Vc had the large tropical filter which stole performance as well. The pilots wanted them lighter and better performing, not heavier.
No one was field modding 4 cannons, outside of one Spitfire VIII in the RAAF that was used to go after high alt Dinah recce birds.
The Spitfire 21, 22 and 24 had 4 cannons. The 22 and 24 did not see combat. The 21 was with 91 squadron in the late Spring of 45 before the end of the war but did not encounter any aircraft. Those Spits had completely redesigned wings.
Again, understand that the E wing, used by the Spitfire XVI was not equipped to handle 4 cannons. It was built to hold 2 cannon and 2 50s.
The Universal wing of the Spitfire Vc, the VII, VIII XII, part of the IX and XIV production runs could carry 4 but because of heating issues on the outer gun bay, it was not carried.
-
No one was field modding 4 cannons, outside of one Spitfire VIII in the RAAF that was used to go after high alt Dinah recce birds.
That sounds like a weird thing to do considering the mission.
-
Math + supporting quote
The weight of a single Hispano Mk. II 20mm cannon = 93lbs
The weight of a single Hispano Mk. II 20mm cannon shell = 130g
The weight of 240 Hispano Mk. II 20mm cannon shells = 68lbs
The total weight of 2x Hispano Mk. II 20mm cannon and 240 cannon shells (120 RPG) = 254lb.
The weight of a single M2 Browning machine gun = 84lbs
The weight of a single .50 cal bullet is = 52g
The weight of 500 .50 cal bullet rounds = 57lbs
The total weight of 2x M2 Browing machine guns and 500 rounds of .50cal = 225lbs.
The weight of a single Browning .303 cal machine gun = 31lb
The weight of a single .303 cal bullet = 12g
The weight of 1400 .303 cal bullets = 37lb
The total weight of 4x Browing .303 cal machine guns and 1400 rounds of .303 bullets = 161lb.
A quote from Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment
Boscombe Down, 1942. Who did a brief perfomance and handling trials with 4x20mm cannon:
"(iii) There is no noticeable difference between the handling characteristics of this aeroplane and other Spitfire V types."
Source: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-V.html
-
That sounds like a weird thing to do considering the mission.
I'd agree, and I don't know that it ever got used for it. But it is the one photo that always comes up when it comes to 4 cannons on a Spitfire VIII. It had the extended wing tips too.
I just get tired of the same old conversation. I love Spits. Spit history has been a passion far longer then computer flight sims going back to 1980 when I spent a semester of college in England and got up close to a Spitfire Vc at Duxford. It's been downhill ever since on Spits. I just put my little guy to bed and above his crib is the framed poster of 4 417 Squadron Spitfire Vb Trops over North Africa that I got in 1980 at the Imperial War Museum in London, that hung in my room, then my oldest son's room and now my youngest. I really love Spits and their history.
I'd be happy to see them add all the Spit variants that make sense, and since Spit XII history has been my specialty for many years, I'd really like that one. But in the overall scheme of the AH world, they are way down the list. Outside of maybe adding the Seafire LFIII, I really think that HTC did a great job on the Spit variants we have covering the entire 39-45 timeframe with the most variety. And yeah I'd really love the XII for selfish reasons, but it can wait on all those other birds that should get here first :)
The never ending 4 cannon Spit wish, is to me worse then the Mustang Ia 4 cannon wish. It was a non factor and the one squadron that did have them flew ground attack, lugging bombs and with that performance killing Vokes filter under the nose.
I think folks have this idea that they'd get a regular Spit with more hitting power. It just wasn't so. If it was such a good deal they'd have had all the Spits with Universal wings carrying 4 cannons, and the E wing would have been purpose built with 4. As it was, the E wing was 2 20 and 2 50 cal.
-
Guppy, the "performance killing tropical filter" you speak of, this is what you mean? Infact, wasn't the tropical intake on our old Spit V.c?
(http://www.aviationartgallery.co.uk/Images/Large-Images/Spitfires-Malta-Bound.jpg)
-
Not a very good portrayal of it, but yes that's it. The old AH Spit did not have it.
These are the 2 Squadron SAAF 4 cannon Vc. You can see the large filter. It makes the P40 look sleek :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/4CannonSpits-1.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/4CannonSpitVc-1.jpg)
-
I shall call her, the Spit-Phoon. :aok
-
Might as well go all the way and ask for the 6 cannon Spitfire IV
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DP845x3.jpg)
-
Might as well go all the way and ask for the 6 cannon Spitfire IV
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DP845x3.jpg)
That was only a test version. :neener:
-
That was only a test version. :neener:
Just checking to see if folks are paying attention :)
-
Another Spit..... Sure.
+1
-
XVI never had an air to air kill :noid :bolt:
I'm pretty sure it did.
Don't know for a fact but that sounds about right.
I've checked lol, Im not a fan of spits unless it's a XI
You guys should stop using someone like THRASH99 as a source on Spitfire Mk XVI's, the XVI did score many air to air kills during the war.
ack-ack
-
Not a very good portrayal of it, but yes that's it. The old AH Spit did not have it.
These are the 2 Squadron SAAF 4 cannon Vc. You can see the large filter. It makes the P40 look sleek :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/4CannonSpits-1.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/4CannonSpitVc-1.jpg)
it looks like a spit trying to be a typhoon.
and -100000000000000000000+
my buffs are injoying there duty of keeping the spitdweeb population down in the DA. :airplane:
if this was added then then they might stand a chance :bolt: :(
-
You guys should stop using someone like THRASH99 as a source on Spitfire Mk XVI's, the XVI did score many air to air kills during the war.
ack-ack
Show me the me the link that proves your statement
-
Show me the me the link that proves your statement
That right there is the key. Everyone wants an internet link. There are these things called books. They've been around a long time, and many of them are quite detailed.
Can't show you a link. I can type up the information from the books that contain it when I get home. Spitfire-The Canadians" being one source for this. At work until late tonight. But if you really want to argue this and lose the argument, I can post the info when I get home.
You do realize the XVI was in combat for a while don't you?
-
That right there is the key. Everyone wants an internet link. There are these things called books. They've been around a long time, and many of them are quite detailed.
Can't show you a link. I can type up the information from the books that contain it when I get home. Spitfire-The Canadians" being one source for this. At work until late tonight. But if you really want to argue this and lose the argument, I can post the info when I get home.
You do realize the XVI was in combat for a while don't you?
I know it was in combat, I'm almost positive it didnt have an Air to Air kill
-
I know it was in combat, I'm almost positive it didnt have an Air to Air kill
Ahh but I am positive it did. My positive outweighs your almost positive :)
-
Just so you know, one of the skins for the Spit XVI is for TB752 KH-Z of 403 Squadron. It had 4 kills to it's credit, a 109, 190, 111 and FW189. It still survives in a Museum at Manston England.
-
Just so you know, one of the skins for the Spit XVI is for TB752 KH-Z of 403 Squadron. It had 4 kills to it's credit, a 109, 190, 111 and FW189. It still survives in a Museum at Manston England.
Hmmm, I was not factual with my statement thanks for letting me know! :old: :aok
-
Not a very good portrayal of it, but yes that's it. The old AH Spit did not have it.
These are the 2 Squadron SAAF 4 cannon Vc. You can see the large filter. It makes the P40 look sleek :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/4CannonSpits-1.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/4CannonSpitVc-1.jpg)
I think it's a step up :devil :bolt:
-
"Outside of maybe adding the Seafire LFIII"
Thanks for the quote Guppy! I've been wishing for this true carrier variant for a long time. We need this baby for the late war FSOs
Cheers,
gus
-
I know it was in combat, I'm almost positive it didnt have an Air to Air kill
don't forget that all late war spit IXLFe was pretty was also a Spit XVI (just an American engine and supercharger assembly )
-
don't forget that all late war spit IXLFe was pretty was also a Spit XVI (just an American engine and supercharger assembly )
Not to mention the fact that our Spitfire Mk XVI in AH is actually a Spitfire LF.Mk IXe. The full throttle altitude it has matches a LF.Mk IX's Merlin 66, not the Mk XVI's Merlin 266. Other than the engine, the two are identical.
-
Not to mention the fact that our Spitfire Mk XVI in AH is actually a Spitfire LF.Mk IXe. The full throttle altitude it has matches a LF.Mk IX's Merlin 66, not the Mk XVI's Merlin 266. Other than the engine, the two are identical.
Thought they would have changed that by now :-( .
But yes our XVI IS a mid 44 (prior to D-Day) LF.IXe
AH old LF.Vc was a blast, wish we never suggested to ditch it. Would be better if re-introduced clipped though.
Plus the Seafire LIIc or LIII.
Oh well.
-
I want a 4 cannon Spitfire, ohhh the whining I would cause :devil
-
I want a 4 cannon Spitfire, ohhh the whining I would cause :devil
screw the 4 cannons just give us the uber mode mk V, clipped options on all that had them and more boost to catch the runners.
Need to stop nerfing the Spits in AH and let the tears flow :lol
-
Low density planes et al.....
Why not. Who cares. Seriously, you want a clipped spit, why not. Perk it, why not. The Mustang 1A with four cannon, sure, why not.
Anything that brings more players into the game, retains people, or for that matter adds to the game.... the better. I would love to see a "A"/"B"/"C" wing option on a spit in the hanger. I can pick between 6-8 guns on a jug, 4-6 on a pony, right?
Why not I say.... every plane....every plane has a weak spot. Every pilot will never always have an advantage. There is only one uber ride in this game and we all know what that is right wmaker... :salute
Run with it!
-
Just so you know, one of the skins for the Spit XVI is for TB752 KH-Z of 403 Squadron. It had 4 kills to it's credit, a 109, 190, 111 and FW189. It still survives in a Museum at Manston England.
Guppy,
I was going to bring the 403rd to the attention of those who doubt the air to air kills,but I think the 401st would be a better squadron for these guys to check. It appears there were claims on a 262 September 5th/44.
:salute
-
FYI its 403 and 401, not the 403rd and the 401st :)
thats why my sig doesnt say 71st ...
-
FYI its 403 and 401, not the 403rd and the 401st :)
thats why my sig doesnt say 71st ...
:banana:
Yay!! RT's #1 pet peave!
:old: :neener:
wrongway
-
;)
-
Guppy,
I was going to bring the 403rd to the attention of those who doubt the air to air kills,but I think the 401st would be a better squadron for these guys to check. It appears there were claims on a 262 September 5th/44.
:salute
401 was still in IXs at that point as was 403. They made the switch to the XVI in November-December I believe.
-
AH old LF.Vc was a blast, wish we never suggested to ditch it. Would be better if re-introduced clipped though.
Fly the Spit16. Same old UFO. Same old BS.
If you go back before the spitvc we had in-game was over-boosted, you'll find it had this early boost. Whatever reason they decided to over-boost it was a bad one. As-is now the main competing plane in any historic matchup is the 109F4 and the Fw190A5. The over-boosted SpitVs were not a historical match for these early 1942 planes, and was in fact more of a late 1943 performance envelope.
It's the one time frame where the LW might have had an arguable edge in performance over the RAF. And it was a slim margin if that. The late boosted spit5 did not fit.
-
Fly the Spit16. Same old UFO. Same old BS.
If you go back before the spitvc we had in-game was over-boosted, you'll find it had this early boost. Whatever reason they decided to over-boost it was a bad one. As-is now the main competing plane in any historic matchup is the 109F4 and the Fw190A5. The over-boosted SpitVs were not a historical match for these early 1942 planes, and was in fact more of a late 1943 performance envelope.
It's the one time frame where the LW might have had an arguable edge in performance over the RAF. And it was a slim margin if that. The late boosted spit5 did not fit.
LOL don't Luftwhine Krusty, it's not becoming of you :) You do understand that the 'clipped, cropped and clapped" Spitfire V was a 1942 development right?
I'm still waiting for those differences on the 109E4 and E7 btw. Just got myself Radinger and Schick's book on the 109A-E development and production. It basically says the 109E4/N and 109E7 were the same bird except the E7 had the bomb/DT rack. And of course there was the 109E4/B as well as 109E-1/Bs and 109E-3/Bs It also talks about the simplicity of the conversion to the DT carrier and that many 109E-1s and E-3s were upgraded to E-7s. The airframe being the same.
-
Oh? Sorry, didn't bother going back to that thread after the trolling started.
100 extra horsepower, give or take (as compared with early E-7s and FTH horsepower), slightly less drag (pointed spinner), early models based off 109E-4/N later models E-7/Z with even more boost at altitude, possible use of 90-round drums on the MF/FF (still hard to find details about this later ammo drum, even Tony Williams couldn't help on the matter of when it was used and where). And, of course, plumbing for the centerlne drop tank to nearly double fuel capacity.
EDIT: As you mention the major parts of the airframe were the same -- but the same is true of 109Es to 109Ks... Essentially the same frame. The total package is different though.
P.S. Outside the "same old BS" that was not a luftwhine. A description of why the overboosted spitvc was not good for AH. Also note the 109F lost use of its gondolas and its bomb (I agree with the gondolas on historic principle but not necessarily the bomb).
-
LOL don't Luftwhine Krusty, it's not becoming of you :) You do understand that the 'clipped, cropped and clapped" Spitfire V was a 1942 development right?
I'm still waiting for those differences on the 109E4 and E7 btw. Just got myself Radinger and Schick's book on the 109A-E development and production. It basically says the 109E4/N and 109E7 were the same bird except the E7 had the bomb/DT rack. And of course there was the 109E4/B as well as 109E-1/Bs and 109E-3/Bs It also talks about the simplicity of the conversion to the DT carrier and that many 109E-1s and E-3s were upgraded to E-7s. The airframe being the same.
Far as I'm concerned lets have the Vc back... I will get my F-4 gondies and egg back as it should be.....
all good,
:cheers:
-
The 2 are unrelated.
Not sure why the bomb was removed but I suspect it was the same reason as on the E-4 -- to represent more of the pure fighter v fighter war of the time.
Gondolas just weren't used on 109Fs. A very small percentage had the proper wing modifications from the factory, and even then that doesn't mean they used them. It was really a testing phase and was used after that (so use the G-2 -- very similar in handling to F4 and the extra speed makes up for the loss in speed when you have gondolas -- making it juts about as fast as the F4 without gondolas)
-
The 2 are unrelated.
Not sure why the bomb was removed but I suspect it was the same reason as on the E-4 -- to represent more of the pure fighter v fighter war of the time.
Gondolas just weren't used on 109Fs. A very small percentage had the proper wing modifications from the factory, and even then that doesn't mean they used them. It was really a testing phase and was used after that (so use the G-2 -- very similar in handling to F4 and the extra speed makes up for the loss in speed when you have gondolas -- making it juts about as fast as the F4 without gondolas)
About 200 f-4 came out from the factory with gondola packages. Not to mention field pakages. Gondies and an egg should be offered on the f-4 and an egg should be offered on the e-4.
-
Here is a lazy Spitfire post. Didn't the Spitfire MKIIa have a fuel injection system to replace the carburetor but still have eight 303 machine guns on it and a bit more horse power? I think it was in service at the end of the Battle of Britain. It was not produced at Southhampton but at Castle Bromwich factory. I guess I could look it up but where is the fun in that. Anyway in may be nice to have a Spitfire with eight 303s that didn't stall out with negative Gs.