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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Yeager on December 11, 2010, 04:51:45 PM

Title: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Yeager on December 11, 2010, 04:51:45 PM
I am reminded of the B25 crash out at Fairchild.  Too low and too slow banking too sharply....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiId0z5EKtk

4 souls, all onboard lost

<S>
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: TOMCAT21 on December 11, 2010, 06:22:59 PM
 :salute......anything come out of the investigation ?
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Tupac on December 11, 2010, 06:58:02 PM
I refuse to watch the video, but a big <<S>> to the crew.

Fair skies and tailwinds forever  :salute
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Dichotomy on December 11, 2010, 06:59:08 PM
 :salute

RIP
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: greens on December 11, 2010, 07:04:15 PM
 :salute to all 4 crew members and family.
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: BGB the 3RD on December 11, 2010, 07:27:55 PM
Well they cut the film before lawn dart
amazing it can climb that steep from takeoff

Terrible to see such a new plane to go down
..pilot error?
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Tupac on December 11, 2010, 07:35:52 PM
Well they cut the film before lawn dart
amazing it can climb that steep from takeoff

Terrible to see such a new plane to go down
..pilot error?

Your upset about the plane?

4 people died who had families.
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: usarmy25 on December 11, 2010, 07:37:59 PM
Be leave it not, that is a normal battle field take off. When I was deployed to Baghdad that was how we left.

 :salute to the four souls lost!
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Wildcat1 on December 11, 2010, 08:56:16 PM
Your upset about the plane?

4 people died who had families.

R.I.P :salute
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: JOACH1M on December 11, 2010, 09:05:10 PM
Your upset about the plane?

4 people died who had families.
Chrck the comment sum idiot posted
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: mechanic on December 11, 2010, 09:13:40 PM
it almost looks like the pilot just stopped flying and let go of the controls. Was that a stall due to the flat turn or did something else happen? Heart attack at the controls maybe? Perhaps they know what happened and are not going to tell us.
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: FiLtH on December 11, 2010, 09:38:22 PM
 Ya I dont watch this stuff anymore either. Seen enough of these. Life's full of it, fill up on happiness instead.
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Russian on December 12, 2010, 12:22:06 AM
Looks  like he went past maximum AoA and stayed there.  As I recall, C-17 uses spoilers and those do not work too well while being behind the lift curve.



Here's a link to a public release of accident investigation. 

http://www.pacaf.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-101210-079.pdf
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Plawranc on December 12, 2010, 02:35:36 AM
 :salute to the crew and their families.

But a big  :mad: to the pilot who put the lives of his crew in jeapordy like that. his actions were rash and uneccessary. My sympathies go out to the family.
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Penguin on December 12, 2010, 09:06:19 AM
Well they cut the film before lawn dart
amazing it can climb that steep from takeoff

Terrible to see such a new plane to go down
..pilot error?

Your upset about the plane?

4 people died who had families.

He was referring to the plane and crew. :salute

I've never understood why ejection seats aren't on those things.

-Penguin

Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Strip on December 12, 2010, 09:43:23 AM
I am reminded of the B25 crash out at Fairchild.  Too low and too slow banking too sharply....

I am sure you meant B-52 but does remind me of the accident at Fairchild as well.

The accident investigation for the C-17 reads very similar, placing most of the blame on the pilot. The rest cites both co-pilot and safety observer as failing to recognize or prevent an unsafe condition. Overconfidence, overaggressive, channelized attention, misplaced motivation, expectancy are listed as causes leading up to the sequence of events. The pilot had performed this same flight profile many times violating several mandates on each occurrence. During the last flight the pilot flew threw stall warnings while applying rudder, which is against flight procedure. He did not perform proper stall recovery and violated minimum safe speeds several times in the flight. It is unfortunate that such a mistake must be paid for with the lives of four Americans.

In fact replace C-17 with B-52 and you have a carbon copy of the crash at Fairchild....

Condolences to all those involved, especially to the families.

Strip
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: LLogann on December 12, 2010, 11:50:33 AM
I didn't see any rudder input from that camera angle...... :headscratch:

Well they cut the film before lawn dart
amazing it can climb that steep from takeoff

Terrible to see such a new plane to go down
..pilot error?

Poor subject to troll with dude.
Your upset about the plane?

4 people died who had families.
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: beau32 on December 12, 2010, 12:00:24 PM
Looks  like he went past maximum AoA and stayed there.  As I recall, C-17 uses spoilers and those do not work too well while being behind the lift curve.



Here's a link to a public release of accident investigation. 

http://www.pacaf.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-101210-079.pdf

The C-17 also has Ailerons, but uses spoilers to help with turning, much like the B-52 (which only has spoilers).

In my honest opinion it was bad taste to even post a video like this, and as some said, I have seen my fair share of these. -1 for the poster, sir you need something else to find on youtube. Unless you have ever been to a accident site, you will never know what its like. And yes I have been to one, when I was stationed at Edwards AFB, we had a F-16 impact the ground inverted, and I was part of the clean up crew to go up there and clean not only the plane up, but also the pilot and back seater. Now I am working C-17s, and this is even closer to home. No, I didnt know the crew, but people I work with did, and it took a toll on all of us.
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Maverick on December 12, 2010, 12:18:57 PM
 :salute to the crew. Mistakes happen, we are all subject to error and no one is perfect. Peacetime flying is not without danger.

My condolences to the families who lost their loved ones.  :(
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Grayeagle on December 17, 2010, 11:15:15 PM
I hate to see the progression .. nose goes low, wing wont recover, and no altitude to spare.
-sigh-

We had a similar incident at Udorn long ago .. one of the Thai Trojan's pilots was giving a 'show' to a local newsman ..the news guy recognized 'nose low, too low, wing not recovering, and *HE* punched out .. pilot rode it in.

Same scenario .. pilot was racking it around and the plane just quit flyin.

Painful to watch, a damn shame all the way around.

-GE
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on December 18, 2010, 02:47:11 AM
s. The pilot had performed this same flight profile many times violating several mandates on each occurrence. During the last flight the pilot flew threw stall warnings while applying rudder, which is against flight procedure. He did not perform proper stall recovery and violated minimum safe speeds several times in the flight. It is unfortunate that such a mistake must be paid for with the lives of four Americans.

Why are pilots that exhibit this kind of over agressive flying in *cargo* planes allowed to fly and risk other crew members?
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: EskimoJoe on December 18, 2010, 03:28:27 AM
Why are pilots that exhibit this kind of over agressive flying in *cargo* planes allowed to fly and risk other crew members?

It is to my understanding that those C-17s perform those high-angle takeoffs followed by steep banking is a common combat procedure to reduce exposure to rocket-fire, small arms, the like. Unfortunately, it seems as if the pilot pushed the aircraft too hard.

 :salute to those four who lost their lives wearing the flag of the United States of America on their shoulder, and to their families for raising four souls that where brave enough to put that uniform on.
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Stoney on December 20, 2010, 09:16:09 AM
Why are pilots that exhibit this kind of over agressive flying in *cargo* planes allowed to fly and risk other crew members?

Because the pilots that do it, and the people responsible for supervising them are human.  The military falls victim to the same mistakes civilians make every day, its just the consequences are much higher when they screw up.
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: oakranger on December 20, 2010, 11:43:33 AM
It is to my understanding that those C-17s perform those high-angle takeoffs followed by steep banking is a common combat procedure to reduce exposure to rocket-fire, small arms, the like. Unfortunately, it seems as if the pilot pushed the aircraft too hard.


Do they do this when full in cargo?
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Stoney on December 20, 2010, 12:17:54 PM
There are procedures that govern how and when these types of takeoffs and maneuvers are allowable.  Obviously weight of the cargo and the combat environment will dictate a lot of that.  None of the approved procedures would allow unsafe maneuvering.  Some unbelievably heavy-handed control input in that video that is obviously outside of the envelope.
Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Yeager on December 20, 2010, 02:27:11 PM
In my honest opinion it was bad taste to even post a video like this, and as some said, I have seen my fair share of these. -1 for the poster, sir you need something else to find on youtube.
Take it up with the USAF, they released it to the public.

This is a community with an extremely HIGH interest in ALL THINGS AVIATION and as such this tragic event is very important to understand and discuss for most of us here.  You obviously do not fit that catagory. 

You also had the option of not clicking on the link, which you clearly had to understand was directly related the topic title.

Title: Re: C-17 Alaska crash - USAF releases video
Post by: Shuffler on December 20, 2010, 04:39:15 PM
Take it up with the USAF, they released it to the public.

This is a community with an extremely HIGH interest in ALL THINGS AVIATION and as such this tragic event is very important to understand and discuss for most of us here.  You obviously do not fit that catagory. 

You also had the option of not clicking on the link, which you clearly had to understand was directly related the topic title.



+1