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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tyrannis on December 12, 2010, 08:43:36 AM

Title: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: Tyrannis on December 12, 2010, 08:43:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmOuljdWyWI


@0.47 can any1 tell me what the manuever that pony pulls is called? or wether it an actuall "official" combat manuever or just something the pilot pulled at the last minute.


and also, is it possable to pull it off in AH?... :pray
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: JOACH1M on December 12, 2010, 08:49:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmOuljdWyWI


@0.47 can any1 tell me what the manuever that pony pulls is called? or wether it an actuall "official" combat manuever or just something the pilot pulled at the last minute.


and also, is it possable to pull it off in AH?... :pray
Almost every move is possible in AH, u just gotta findem. Throttle helps to
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: BowHTR on December 12, 2010, 08:50:04 AM
i would have to say that no, you cannot do that. He turns on a dime almost.
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: akbmzawy on December 12, 2010, 08:57:46 AM
Here is your answer. Its called a Lomcevak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SrF5On5xIk

I have tried this manuever in the MA with no results until the RV-8 was enabled. I did it then.
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: Tyrannis on December 12, 2010, 09:09:17 AM
think i could pull that off in a b17?  :noid


would deff leave the spitdweebs thinking:  :huh  :confused:  :joystick:  :headscratch:  :furious
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: SlapShot on December 12, 2010, 09:09:39 AM
That maneuver does not have a name, but what you saw was a re-enactment of a dogfight between Richard Candelaria and a German Ace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdCm5z2RpI8

This has been discussed before and I forgot who, but there was (or is) a guy in the Bronco Mustangs that could pull something very similar to that move.

Edit ... I guess the maneuver is close to a Lomcevak .... Here is the post from dtango and how he pulls this move.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,267130.msg3336378.html#msg3336378
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: akbmzawy on December 12, 2010, 09:13:02 AM
Here is your answer. Its called a Lomcevak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SrF5On5xIk

I have tried this manuever in the MA with no results until the RV-8 was enabled. I did it then.

Read above.
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: macleod01 on December 12, 2010, 09:37:18 AM
i would have to say that no, you cannot do that. He turns on a dime almost.

I seem to remember that it IS doable in AH, just very very hard and requires either a lot of patience to get it right (I.e 7 years worth) or a lot of luck. Searching for the threads on it now.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,267130.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,222522.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,274763.0.html

EDIT: HT has himself said it is NOT Possible.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,274763.105.html

Apologies
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: skribetm on December 12, 2010, 10:27:49 AM
candelaria's P51-D was waaaaaaaaay overmodeled.
it was built out of spec by NA.
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: uptown on December 12, 2010, 12:21:28 PM
Yeah it can be done. Do a search for "flat plate". There's been several threads on it in the past. :salute

 

It's really not worth the time and trouble to learn IMO. If and that's a BIG if, you can pull it off you still have to time it so you can shoot the guy as he flys by. There's a million other and easier ways to create an overshoot.


Believe nothing you see on the You Tube and only half of what ya hear.  :salute
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: pervert on December 12, 2010, 12:53:56 PM
Yeah it can be done. Do a search for "flat plate". There's been several threads on it in the past. :salute

 

It's really not worth the time and trouble to learn IMO. If and that's a BIG if, you can pull it off you still have to time it so you can shoot the guy as he flys by. There's a million other and easier ways to create an overshoot.


Believe nothing you see on the History Channel and only half of what ya hear.  :salute

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jy0YmvGc6o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jy0YmvGc6o)
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: StokesAk on December 12, 2010, 12:56:15 PM
Anyone nootice that the 262 puts a few 30mm into the 51s wing, nothing!

fix the taters!!!  :noid
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: uptown on December 12, 2010, 12:57:50 PM
Umm Pervert, that dogfight episode orginated on the History Channel not YouTube.  But I fixed it for ya .  :D
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: macleod01 on December 12, 2010, 12:58:14 PM
Yeah it can be done. Do a search for "flat plate". There's been several threads on it in the past. :salute

 

It's really not worth the time and trouble to learn IMO. If and that's a BIG if, you can pull it off you still have to time it so you can shoot the guy as he flys by. There's a million other and easier ways to create an overshoot.


Believe nothing you see on the History Channel and only half of what ya hear.  :salute

Uptown, a Flat plate is similar and is about the closest that we can replicate. However HT has himself said that the exact move shown in the Dogfights Episode is impossible to recreate ingame. Have a look at my last link in the edit, Page 3 I think about half way down.

A flat plate does look very similar, but it is not the exact move shown
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: uptown on December 12, 2010, 01:00:44 PM
Blaaaa, HiTech's a noob!  :bolt:

Other then that I agree with your statement.  :devil
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: pervert on December 12, 2010, 01:01:32 PM
Umm Pervert, that dogfight episode orginated on the History Channel not YouTube.  But I fixed it for ya .  :D

YOUR MY UPTOWN GIRL!!!! STOP FRONTIN!
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: pervert on December 12, 2010, 01:04:03 PM
Blaaaa, HiTech's a noob!  :bolt:

I'd take Hitechs word over an overly dramatic CGI anecdote any day of the week  :aok hes still a craap spellerr though
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: uptown on December 12, 2010, 01:09:51 PM
quit brown nosing ya perv  :lol
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: JunkyII on December 12, 2010, 01:16:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmOuljdWyWI


@0.47 can any1 tell me what the manuever that pony pulls is called? or wether it an actuall "official" combat manuever or just something the pilot pulled at the last minute.


and also, is it possable to pull it off in AH?... :pray
Ive done similar things in a 152 but that isnt on purpose........there is no method to handling the 152s stall madness
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: Mar on December 12, 2010, 01:18:06 PM
Ahem...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3HPaXGUDrM

T+4:10
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: macleod01 on December 12, 2010, 01:30:26 PM
Mar, to me that looks like you stalled out, half way down popped flaps and got a lucky shot.

The video is of a 51 flying level, then slightly noses up and at the same time does a 180° turn on its axis, before firing off a short burst while flying backwards then turning the rest of the 180° to fly level again.

Very differant
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: Mar on December 12, 2010, 01:32:59 PM
That was not me, though I could possibly do it. Vid flown and edited by Lepape2. It was very famous for a while, don't know why it isn't now...
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: macleod01 on December 12, 2010, 01:34:11 PM
My apologies, Most times when people post videos it is of them.
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: Scotch on December 12, 2010, 03:32:02 PM
Most times when people post videos it is of them.

 :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8zO_DV09QE
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: macleod01 on December 12, 2010, 03:36:33 PM
Lol, is that post of your normal entrance to the MA? Or is it ment to show the dull silence and uninterest when you talk  :P
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: LLogann on December 12, 2010, 03:56:40 PM
 :lol

Anyone nootice that the 262 puts a few 30mm into the 51s wing, nothing!

fix the taters!!!  :noid


As for the op...... I can't comment on a WWI era move "faked" for a television show.  A Mustang might pull that in the vert but not from there. 
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: CAP1 on December 12, 2010, 04:24:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmOuljdWyWI


@0.47 can any1 tell me what the manuever that pony pulls is called? or wether it an actuall "official" combat manuever or just something the pilot pulled at the last minute.


and also, is it possable to pull it off in AH?... :pray

yea..that move is called a fantasy.
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: Raptor on December 12, 2010, 04:31:06 PM
I have done it in a P38 when the stall was incorrectly modeled in AH.
For those that don't remember or weren't here at the time, the P38 would enter almost uncontrollable flat spins relatively easily. I was fighting someone in a spitfire and after a five minutes of dogging it out he settled firmly on my 6. I pushed rudder hard left, pulled up as quick as I could and entered the flat spin. As I spun around he flew right into my line of fire so I pulled the trigger and tore his wing off. I nosed down, used engine throttles and lost about 2000ft from my original alt from the spin.
I have come close to doing it one other time after the FM was fixed.
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: Raptor on December 12, 2010, 04:36:33 PM
Mar, to me that looks like you stalled out, half way down popped flaps and got a lucky shot.

The video is of a 51 flying level, then slightly noses up and at the same time does a 180° turn on its axis, before firing off a short burst while flying backwards then turning the rest of the 180° to fly level again.

Very differant
Watching the video lepape looks like he practiced using the P47 stall and did similar maneuvers several times. The moment at 4:10 looks as close as I think you can get in AH. I feel that the CGI in "DogFights" was a little exaggerated
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: macleod01 on December 12, 2010, 04:37:52 PM
Correct, as close as is possible in AH. Thats the key here.

It is impossible to do the move shown in Dogfights in AH, but the move that was demonstrated is as close as you can get
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: 321BAR on December 12, 2010, 05:16:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmOuljdWyWI


@0.47 can any1 tell me what the manuever that pony pulls is called? or wether it an actuall "official" combat manuever or just something the pilot pulled at the last minute.


and also, is it possable to pull it off in AH?... :pray
ive done the flat plate many a times on enemies. i have never been able to kill a fighter DURING the maneuver though... well theres a new challenge for me to overcome. Starting now im gonna try and pull a flat plate kill :aok
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: uptown on December 12, 2010, 05:19:58 PM
film?
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: Tyrannis on December 12, 2010, 07:18:43 PM
i wonder....did the p51 shown in dogfights, have a combat camera in it?

be amazing to see that footage, to be able to tell wether he actually did pull that manuever off or not.
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: macleod01 on December 12, 2010, 07:48:19 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did gun cam not work only when the guns were fired? This means that, in this case, all we would see is the actual shot looking similar to a head on.
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: 321BAR on December 12, 2010, 11:00:11 PM
film?
i rarely film. will try to film it sometime uptown. its really simple to do once you got it down. not always the best maneuver to pull in fights though for obvious reasons that youre letting yourself hang for a split second where anyone but the guy on your six can pick ya. actually if you want. try and meet up with me in the MAs and ill show it to ya because im not good in doing films at all...
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: BaldEagl on December 13, 2010, 01:08:17 AM
I did almost that exact move once in AH by accident in a Tempest but I only reversed 180 degrees, not 360, and I've never been able to replicate it even though I've tried.
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: kilo2 on December 13, 2010, 01:29:56 AM
I saw the Lomcevak video and I think i do a move similar all the time in the 152 check it out.
http://www.mediafire.com/?atnoljsh1k15svx

Oh and at the end is what happens if you dont do it right ha!
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: 321BAR on December 13, 2010, 09:50:20 AM
film?
uptown. the move there like others have said isnt possible in AH. The flat plate is very similar and i doubt i could kill while doing the maneuver... though ive seen crazier in the world of AH :rolleyes: . forgot to mention that in my last posts
Title: Re: p51 crazy tactic
Post by: JUGgler on December 13, 2010, 10:08:46 AM
Umm Pervert, that dogfight episode orginated on the History Channel not YouTube.  But I fixed it for ya .  :D

yes! maybe just weird stuff yesterday but I clearly put taters in an LA7 and pony, twice into the pony nothing!!
Don't think it was any kind of game issue maybe some weird lag or glitch! most times taters do the job  :aok