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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pand on December 13, 2010, 10:48:40 PM

Title: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 13, 2010, 10:48:40 PM
New Feature / New Bug / New (Dare I say) .....?

5-6 30MM cannon hits from a 262 in the fuse of a Betty and it doesn't take any damage?   :headscratch:

Film Below:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ejfbxypu2nqceeq

Update: Fraps from AH Film viewer running at half speed (for the lazy) ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngYD6QXVI8U
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Strip on December 13, 2010, 10:55:54 PM
 :rofl

(FYI, this is not how you handle something like this!)

For the curious I was descending because I had no fuel, landed with less than a few minutes of fuel!

Strip
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: 68ZooM on December 13, 2010, 11:08:50 PM
wow heard the cry on 200 didnt take long to get here  :rofl
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 13, 2010, 11:39:34 PM
New Feature / New Bug / New (Dare I say) .....?

5-6 30MM cannon hits from a 262 in the fuse of a Betty and it doesn't take any damage?   :headscratch:

Film Below:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ejfbxypu2nqceeq

Yamamoto I bet would have loved to have been in a Betty like that.   :devil


ack-ack
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: MarineUS on December 14, 2010, 12:23:58 AM
shoot man - I got hit with a spit I while in a betty - few pings and I'm on fire. The betty sucks lol.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: AceHavok on December 14, 2010, 12:27:21 AM
The few times I've flown the Betty, every time it has caught on fire. It's like a flying fuel tank.  :cry
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Strip on December 14, 2010, 12:29:14 AM
AceHavok,

If anything I thought the bird was weak in the DA, set one on fire with just 20-25 rounds.

Not one but two fire streams!

Strip
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Jayhawk on December 14, 2010, 12:32:38 AM
I counted 4 hits spread across the entire fuselage.  First was by right waist gunner, second was near top turret, third was about half way back on plane, forth was right in front of tail.  Seems like you spread out your hits across the strongest part of the aircraft.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 14, 2010, 12:40:17 AM
30mm Cannon!
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Karnak on December 14, 2010, 12:42:48 AM
The fuel tanks are in the wings though, shooting the fuselage isn't the best way to kill a G4M.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Jayhawk on December 14, 2010, 12:44:22 AM
30mm Cannon!

lol I know, but your attack was a textbook example of how to spread your damage across the biggest, strongest area.  I don't know the game well enough to tell you if this is actually an issue, but you did everything you could do to not get that kill.    ;)
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 14, 2010, 12:49:54 AM
Not sure how much you fly the 262, but if you hit pretty much any plane, any where with a 30mm tater, it's over...  To emphasize the power of the 30mm, If a 262 (or any aircraft shooting 30mm) is too close to the enemy aircraft when the cannon impacts, the blast damage will destroy the shooter.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Strip on December 14, 2010, 01:01:08 AM
A few planes routinely took 30mm hits, in game and reality.

A P-47 is known to shrug off hits to the engine with an oil hit or dead engine.

The B-17,B-24, and B-26 will take 3-4 hits to the fuselage sometimes.

Strip
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Oddball-CAF on December 14, 2010, 01:39:54 AM
New Feature / New Bug / New (Dare I say) .....?

5-6 30MM cannon hits from a 262 in the fuse of a Betty and it doesn't take any damage?

  I got absolutely shredded by a Spitfire in mine earlier this evening. Hell, what are you snivellin' for,
a 262 indeed. That pig needs to be locked in a shed and used for scenarios only.  :devil
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Oddball-CAF on December 14, 2010, 01:47:57 AM
  I got absolutely shredded by a Spitfire in mine earlier this evening.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: greens on December 14, 2010, 01:54:33 AM
Yamamoto I bet would have loved to have been in a Betty like that.   :devil


ack-ack
Ya think?  :huh  :headscratch: cool buff looks pretty tough cant wait to comeback n fly it  :airplane:  :joystick:  :o
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Strip on December 14, 2010, 01:59:34 AM
Pand, I finally watched the video....

You simply aimed and hit in the wrong spot, the fuselage is the toughest part of the aircraft. The Betty will go up like a gunpowder with a few 50's to the wings or wing root. I killed six Betty's in a little over two minutes using only 300 rounds of 50 and 30 rounds of 20 mil.

Try aiming for a wing or wing root and you will have much more success!

The Betty is by NO means invincible....

Strip
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: LCADolby on December 14, 2010, 02:58:28 AM
Yeah, your shooting leaves a lot to be desired on that one. :salute
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: 5anders on December 14, 2010, 03:01:06 AM
I shot all three bombers in a formation of betty's with a couple 37's from a p39 and nothing happened... until about 15 seconds later then they all caught fire and went down.  Nobody else was around at the time.  My .net was also flat lined?  :headscratch:

edit: I forgot to save the video or I would post it.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: ozrocker on December 14, 2010, 07:49:20 AM
Flew Betty last night, 1 ping back to tower,lol.



                                                          <S> Oz
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 14, 2010, 08:37:50 AM
Pand, I finally watched the video....

You simply aimed and hit in the wrong spot, the fuselage is the toughest part of the aircraft. The Betty will go up like a gunpowder with a few 50's to the wings or wing root. I killed six Betty's in a little over two minutes using only 300 rounds of 50 and 30 rounds of 20 mil.

Try aiming for a wing or wing root and you will have much more success!

The Betty is by NO means invincible....

Strip

Your drone took a single 30mm to the rear fuse and ripped it right in half... looks like your crew chief put some extra armor on the lead bomber apparently.  I wasn't implying that the Betty itself was invincible... just yours ;)

Everyone who is 'critiquing' my accuracy in the 262... go shoot something with it's 30mm and watch it explode.  With my experience in the 262, 1 Shell almost always accounts for 1 kill, let alone 4 hits on the same aircraft.

Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: HawkerMKII on December 14, 2010, 08:49:36 AM
New name for Betty......"Burn Betty Burn".....took a 110 up looking, found flight of Betty's, 1 side pass about 20 rounds........GREAT BALLS OF FIRE :x
 It's new, but guy keep flying them cuz I be looking :airplane:
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: waystin2 on December 14, 2010, 10:28:07 AM
every time it has caught on fire. It's like a flying fuel tank.

Seems to be my experience as far as attacking them. :aok
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Masherbrum on December 14, 2010, 10:35:19 AM
Your drone took a single 30mm to the rear fuse and ripped it right in half... looks like your crew chief put some extra armor on the lead bomber apparently.  I wasn't implying that the Betty itself was invincible... just yours ;)

Everyone who is 'critiquing' my accuracy in the 262... go shoot something with it's 30mm and watch it explode.  With my experience in the 262, 1 Shell almost always accounts for 1 kill, let alone 4 hits on the same aircraft.



They're "critiquing" you because you posted this thread and have shown us video on "Where not to hit buffs."   Most of us posting, know where to hit aircraft.   The Fuselage is a sponge, regardless of cannon being shot at it.   As for the backslapping you keep skating around by dropping subtle hints, forget it.  
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 14, 2010, 10:42:10 AM
They're "critiquing" you because you posted this thread and have shown us video on "Where not to hit buffs."   Most of us posting, know where to hit aircraft.   The Fuselage is a sponge, regardless of cannon being shot at it.   As for the backslapping you keep skating around by dropping subtle hints, forget it.  

Congrats on your 18,473 post.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Masherbrum on December 14, 2010, 10:44:12 AM
Congrats on your 18,473 post.

....and I can still read your mind and hit the nail on the head on the 18,474th. 
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: cooldued on December 14, 2010, 10:56:24 AM
Not sure how much you fly the 262, but if you hit pretty much any plane, any where with a 30mm tater, it's over...  To emphasize the power of the 30mm, If a 262 (or any aircraft shooting 30mm) is too close to the enemy aircraft when the cannon impacts, the blast damage will destroy the shooter.

just so yyou know i watched the video 4 times and it looks more like a zero's nose then a 262's (maby its just where the shots from).

it is strange that you shot at the top of the plane, and not the wings. it would be 1 or 2 shots and it would burn.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 14, 2010, 10:57:41 AM
They're "critiquing" you because you posted this thread and have shown us video on "Where not to hit buffs."   Most of us posting, know where to hit aircraft.   The Fuselage is a sponge, regardless of cannon being shot at it.   As for the backslapping you keep skating around by dropping subtle hints, forget it.  

Reviewing your score--- I can't say I believe that *you* know where to hit aircraft... Maybe more time in the cockpit and less time trolling on the message board might be warranted?   :neener:
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 14, 2010, 10:58:25 AM
just so yyou know i watched the video 4 times and it looks more like a zero's nose then a 262's

Thanks for the insight Cooldued  :)
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Yeager on December 14, 2010, 11:02:13 AM
I took a single betty up last night to about 12k and easily popped a wing off doing a mild evasive to bring the rear cannon in line to fire on an approaching spit.  I also noticed when I viewed the aircraft in the rear quarter views from the cockpit that the wing roots on both wings were not there.  I could see through the wing roots.

I am going to hazard a guess here and say the Betty will get some tweaking or be forever relegated to the  SE scrap heap.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: mthrockmor on December 14, 2010, 11:09:36 AM
More than anything I love the camera work. Is that IR Tracker? I need to get one of those.

I've seen pictures of the inside of a Betty, just a hollow tube. Nothing to hit but a few crew members and some crates. My first runs on the Betty with a -51 included pouring rounds into the fueslage and seeing the same results. Second pass I aimed at the wings and almost instantly started the kiss of death flames.

I think the big story is when are we getting the Me-410. Seriously Skuzzy, let's get with the program here. I still want an F8F Bearcat or the German Arrow fighter (push/pull) but alas, since they didn't make combat apparently this isn't to be.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 14, 2010, 11:12:39 AM
More than anything I love the camera work. Is that IR Tracker? I need to get one of those.

LOL, just the left and right arrows and zoom in/out within the AH Film viewer ;)
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Vudak on December 14, 2010, 11:18:50 AM
Reviewing your score--- I can't say I believe that *you* know where to hit aircraft... Maybe more time in the cockpit and less time trolling on the message board might be warranted?   :neener:

A little more time on the message board for you and you'd realize that by typing this you've just signed up for a heap of grief :)
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 14, 2010, 11:25:19 AM
A little more time on the message board for you and you'd realize that by typing this you've just signed up for a heap of grief :)

So far with this message board, I've learned that no matter what you post... you're signing up for a heap of grief!  Cheers!  ;)
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: *PAPA* on December 14, 2010, 11:36:27 AM
Greens, Been missing you. Where have you been?

A8Papa


Ya think?  :huh  :headscratch: cool buff looks pretty tough cant wait to comeback n fly it  :airplane:  :joystick:  :o
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: 321BAR on December 14, 2010, 11:37:49 AM
The fuel tanks are in the wings though, shooting the fuselage isn't the best way to kill a G4M.
its not just tanks in the wings karnak, the wings are tanks themselves... They put a fuel bladder AROUND the fuel tanks in the wings for the required long distance 2 engine bomber the Japanese navy wanted. a tracer round to the wing and the G4M is dead no matter what. Though i believe a tater to the fuselage should damage it more than that?


(Its kinda funny that if Mitsubishi got to build their 4 engined Betty like they wanted to, it would have had self sealing tanks, armor, and 20mm cannons for all defensive armaments :rofl ) Those darn Imperial Japanese commanders! What were they thinking?!

(also, i love this one... The Betty's engine out did a B17G's engine by (150-200?) HP each) :rofl
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: JUGgler on December 14, 2010, 11:40:20 AM
I tried to turn fight one last night, wings snapped off at like 1.5 Gs   :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Yeager on December 14, 2010, 11:44:55 AM
So far with this message board, I've learned that no matter what you post... you're signing up for a heap of grief!  Cheers!  ;)
Pand you registered in Oct 2001 yet only have 94 posts?  Where you been man?

Dont mind mash....he is a bit of a frumpy grump from time to time.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Jayhawk on December 14, 2010, 12:51:13 PM
Eh, the people with the fewest posts seem to care more about post count that anyone else.  They take pride in it for some reason.

Oh well, here's a dancing banana:   :banana:
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Shuffler on December 14, 2010, 01:09:19 PM
This should be sent to HiTech not posted in here.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 14, 2010, 01:17:25 PM
This should be sent to HiTech not posted in here.

I couldn't find where to send it originally, and since I haven't been verbally abused in a while, I posted here :)

As of a couple hours ago, the full film and all detail has been sent to support@hitechcreations.com for review.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Lusche on December 14, 2010, 01:38:04 PM
The invincible Betty has a K/D of 0.13 so far. :)
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: DERK13 on December 14, 2010, 02:03:13 PM
oh i see that the betty has arrived, great cant wait to get home and shoot it down  lol
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Seadog36 on December 14, 2010, 02:22:27 PM
They seem to burst into flames with no provocation when I fly them :rofl
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: RamPytho on December 14, 2010, 02:58:07 PM
Got one ping from ack and I was a flaming lawn dart.  :banana:
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Plawranc on December 14, 2010, 03:30:54 PM
Skorpion where arrreeee yoooouu!!!

I blasted your Betty's last night in a Spit 16.

I named the G4M, the Flying Cigar.

Because its fat, round and lights up on the best occasions
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Squire on December 14, 2010, 04:23:25 PM
Quote
burst into flames with no provocation


Oh cmon...you didn't tease it just a bit?  ;)
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: killrDan on December 14, 2010, 05:42:08 PM
Shot my first set of Betty's down just hours after the patch released.  I used an A8 with 20mm gun pack.  They sure do burn nice when you hit them in the wing.  I had enough ammo left to go pork some ord  :D
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Karnak on December 14, 2010, 05:42:29 PM
I tried to turn fight one last night, wings snapped off at like 1.5 Gs   :rofl :rofl
Shouldn't be that fragile.  It was flammable and unarmored, but it wasn't particularly structurally weak.  Saburo Sakai described it being dived for speed and then looped by a G4M pilot who had wanted to be a fighter pilot.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: grizz441 on December 14, 2010, 06:16:43 PM
Not sure how much you fly the 262, but if you hit pretty much any plane, any where with a 30mm tater, it's over...  To emphasize the power of the 30mm, If a 262 (or any aircraft shooting 30mm) is too close to the enemy aircraft when the cannon impacts, the blast damage will destroy the shooter.

Misconception, this typically only applies to fighters.  Bombers can take quite a tater lashing, including A20s and IL2s.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: JOACH1M on December 14, 2010, 06:27:14 PM
Misconception, this typically only applies to fighters.  Bombers can take quite a tater lashing, including A20s and IL2s.
Ineed :joystick:
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Oldman731 on December 14, 2010, 08:48:02 PM
Shouldn't be that fragile.  It was flammable and unarmored, but it wasn't particularly structurally weak.  Saburo Sakai described it being dived for speed and then looped by a G4M pilot who had wanted to be a fighter pilot.

"Almost" looped, I believe he said the Betty exploded at the top.

Karnak's point is accurate, though, the Betty was a versatile plane in the 1941-42 time frame.  It was known to be a flamer, as were most Japanese planes of the period, but it wasn't as if every Japanese Betty raid resulted in no one coming home. 

You could put together a plane set where the US side was limited to Dauntlesses for bombers while, because of their range, Bettys could be used by the Japanese side.  Escorted by A6M2s against Wildcats (Guadalcanal) or against P-39Ds and/or P-40Es (Port Moresby), both sides could have a pretty good time.

- oldman (scratching down notes)
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 14, 2010, 10:13:52 PM
Misconception, this typically only applies to fighters.  Bombers can take quite a tater lashing, including A20s and IL2s.


hey Grizz!  Have you tried this out with the Betty Yet?  I hit his drone in the fuse, in the middle between the back of the wing and the tail with a single 30mm shell and it ripped right in half.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: grizz441 on December 14, 2010, 10:34:49 PM

hey Grizz!  Have you tried this out with the Betty Yet?  I hit his drone in the fuse, in the middle between the back of the wing and the tail with a single 30mm shell and it ripped right in half.

Not yet, but it took me a while to come to grips that it takes 5-8 taters to kill heavy bombers and I'm letting you know early on.   :) 
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Krusty on December 14, 2010, 10:47:04 PM
I flew a Betty sortie today, hotpadded, and went back again, and then landed safely. A few close calls, but because of the brisk ROC I was up at 13k and the cons below me gave up rather than chase (but I was ready! I was waiting to test out that 20mm tail gun).

What strikes me is the rather short range... I get only 30 minutes full power with 25%. Cruise really didn't help the fuel consumption as much as I expected. I thought this plane had about 1600 mi range (if not more) and seemed rather shorter than that. Had to cruise to and from a target merely 50 mi away.

Next time I know better, will take more fuel, but still.... overall? Shouldn't that gas last longer?


P.S. It's quite light on the controls and feels almost aerobatic when the bombs are gone. I pulled some (somewhat) sharp pull-ups and dives, some moves that other bombers might lock up under. Just don't over-stress the wings! They were made with the least amount of metal physically possible to get the job done!
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: 321BAR on December 14, 2010, 11:19:48 PM
Not yet, but it took me a while to come to grips that it takes 5-8 taters to kill heavy bombers and I'm letting you know early on.   :) 
just give it the tracer 30mm to the wing :aok you'll have no problem with one tater killing a betty
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: palef on December 14, 2010, 11:45:00 PM
Samnite in his La7 took out 2 of my Bettys and a wingtip on the remaining one in one pass.

He politely waved as I spiralled into the sea shedding parts.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Masherbrum on December 15, 2010, 05:23:20 AM
just give it the tracer 30mm to the wing :aok you'll have no problem with one tater killing a betty

But Pand already said he didn't hit the wing and he's one of the best sticks in the game. 
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: 321BAR on December 15, 2010, 11:15:34 AM
But Pand already said he didn't hit the wing and he's one of the best sticks in the game. 
i was talking to grizz about the tater just having to throw a tracer through the wing...
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Masherbrum on December 15, 2010, 11:31:05 AM
Go to Pand's reply to me.  :)
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: B4Buster on December 15, 2010, 11:43:46 AM
I flew the Betty on a quick cross country sortie last night to try it out. I didn't climb too high, but I did a few touch - and - go's, as well as a series of loops and hammerheads after I had pickeled the bombs. As Krusty said, it is quite light on the controls...a lot of fun to fly! Flying right seat was a bit of a change, too.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Masherbrum on December 15, 2010, 11:45:11 AM
Furthermore, post count aside.  You'll never see a whine thread started by me.  If a shoot ANY I'm hitting the wing/wing root or cockpit.

:)
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Masherbrum on December 15, 2010, 12:01:12 PM
Sorry for the double post, I'm posting from blackberry and I thought my service "hung up".  Instead it was the BBS server.
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: 321BAR on December 15, 2010, 12:07:10 PM
Sorry for the double post, I'm posting from blackberry and I thought my service "hung up".  Instead it was the BBS server.
try triple :aok
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Masherbrum on December 15, 2010, 12:21:15 PM
YAHTZEE!!!!
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: The Fugitive on December 15, 2010, 02:06:04 PM
Way to rack up that post count !  :p
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Masherbrum on December 15, 2010, 02:34:56 PM
What post count? :t
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Jayhawk on December 15, 2010, 03:09:42 PM
post
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Jayhawk on December 15, 2010, 03:10:18 PM
count
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Jayhawk on December 15, 2010, 03:10:51 PM
means
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Jayhawk on December 15, 2010, 03:11:23 PM
everything
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Dichotomy on December 15, 2010, 03:29:27 PM
you'll never catch me :P
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Masherbrum on December 15, 2010, 03:30:33 PM
:rofl Jayhawk
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 15, 2010, 10:42:02 PM
Triple Betty Bail - 3 kills without firing a shot... am I that intimidating?     :joystick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvKHwuiAZdk
Title: Re: Invincible Betty?
Post by: Pand on December 15, 2010, 10:55:15 PM
Just got my response back from Support:

"Pyro looked at it and everything appears to be fine.  You just happened to spread the shots across the fuselage and did not hit any critical components in the plane."

Apologize for the hassle Strip!  Apparently the 30mm aren't as powerful as I thought they were...(unless they're hitting my aircraft of course) :P

<S> all for the 'engaging' conversation... and helping to get my post count up!