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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oakranger on December 16, 2010, 01:32:42 AM

Title: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: oakranger on December 16, 2010, 01:32:42 AM
Did anybody watch this four hour long documentary on the history channel?  WOW!
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: VonMessa on December 16, 2010, 05:00:12 AM
Most of it.

Gives a whole new meaning to "hiding in plain sight" does it not?

I'm sure that this thread will get the ban stick eventually but yes, it was interesting.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: zack1234 on December 16, 2010, 06:26:03 AM
Hiding in plain sight? what do you mean by that.

By the way my German Shephard iz bigger than yours :salute
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Shuffler on December 16, 2010, 09:56:16 AM
What I saw of it was interesting.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: 68ZooM on December 16, 2010, 11:00:56 AM
it was interesting and sad at the same time, lets hope no one ever see's a war like that ever again
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: oakranger on December 16, 2010, 12:02:51 PM
It still amazes me how one man can raise to power in a short time and rule the country with a iron fist with ease. 
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: jolly22 on December 16, 2010, 12:06:22 PM
It still amazes me how one man can raise to power in a short time and rule the country with a iron fist with ease. 

It wasn't THAT short of a time, I recall reading somewhere that Hitler was involved with politics from the end of WW1.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: curry1 on December 16, 2010, 01:46:49 PM
I didnt get to see it all but it seemed good for the 1 and a half hours i watched it.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: USRanger on December 16, 2010, 03:26:52 PM
I watched the entire show.  Worth watching.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: oakranger on December 16, 2010, 05:48:57 PM
It wasn't THAT short of a time, I recall reading somewhere that Hitler was involved with politics from the end of WW1.


I was going back to late 20s early 30s.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: JB88 on December 16, 2010, 06:58:51 PM
will definately have to catch it.

i live in germany these days (far away from any american bases) and it has been a very interesting point of conversation...and observation.

the strangest part is meeting these people and living amongst them, i find it strange to even remotely concieve that any of them come from anyone capable of even coming close to such actions. 

it has been an eye opener.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: SmokinLoon on December 16, 2010, 09:00:53 PM
The best source for beginning to end regarding the "Third Reich" is very simple:

"The Ride and Fall of the Third Reich", written by William Shirer

No other source, at least contemporary, covers the material in depth as he does.  Lots of good information!!!  I reference my copy, the same one that was used as a textbook in college quite a bit.  Much of the sources for that book are actual German political and military sources printed by the German government.   
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: oakranger on December 16, 2010, 09:04:14 PM
will definately have to catch it.

i live in germany these days (far away from any american bases) and it has been a very interesting point of conversation...and observation.

the strangest part is meeting these people and living amongst them, i find it strange to even remotely concieve that any of them come from anyone capable of even coming close to such actions. 

it has been an eye opener.


Met a lady who lived in Berlin at the time Hitler was the chancellor.  She survived the allie bombing and Battle
of Berlin.   At one point of our discussion, she graded my hand and said,".....most Germans did not want to go to war."  It was interesting what she and her family had to do to survived.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: DREDIOCK on December 16, 2010, 09:25:01 PM
I imagine that the German people are pretty much like any other. so long as their armies are winning with ease and steamrolling along. they are all for it.
But as soon as it starts becoming costly and/or the tide turns against them. It doesnt seem like such a good idea anymore.

"Success has many fathers. But failure is an orphan."
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Ardy123 on December 16, 2010, 09:43:51 PM
Just remember that Goering himself said...

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

and its sadly true.... it seems to work every time regardless of government type.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Tac on December 16, 2010, 09:48:47 PM
sad to admit it but that pig knew what he was talking about.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: 68ZooM on December 16, 2010, 10:27:00 PM
it shocked me when they said it took untill 1980's to finish rebuilding Germany, i never knew that
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: oakranger on December 16, 2010, 10:40:32 PM
it shocked me when they said it took untill 1980's to finish rebuilding Germany, i never knew that

Yea, that took me off guard.  However, giving that Germany was slip and the east living under communist Russia...I can see under stand why it took that long.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Shuffler on December 16, 2010, 10:50:40 PM
The best source for beginning to end regarding the "Third Reich" is very simple:

"The Ride and Fall of the Third Reich", written by William Shirer

No other source, at least contemporary, covers the material in depth as he does.  Lots of good information!!!  I reference my copy, the same one that was used as a textbook in college quite a bit.  Much of the sources for that book are actual German political and military sources printed by the German government.   

I have read my copy many times over. It is a paperback about 3 inches thinck. lol
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: zack1234 on December 17, 2010, 02:36:42 AM
strange my copy of Shire's book (journalist) is 6 inches thick its a very big book :old:
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: BiPoLaR on December 17, 2010, 02:44:59 AM
Did anybody watch this four hour long documentary on the history channel?  WOW!
Nope. But, I did read the book. Damn good read  :aok
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Ardy123 on December 17, 2010, 03:36:04 AM
Yea, that took me off guard.  However, giving that Germany was slip and the east living under communist Russia...I can see under stand why it took that long.

The former eastern German parts are still very run down. I was there in 2008, and out side of both Dresden and Leipzig you could see bombed out factories from the train. Also, the former eastern German parts have not recovered economically from either WW2 or reunification, many places suffer high alcoholism rates and 25-50% unemployment.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: greens on December 17, 2010, 04:52:54 AM
Did anybody watch this four hour long documentary on the history channel?  WOW!
I pee on 3rd reich IMO. ban me i dont care, my opinion. I have the right to express my opinion. If not so be it.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: greens on December 17, 2010, 05:00:10 AM
I pee on 3rd reich IMO. ban me i dont care, my opinion. I have the right to express my opinion. If not so be it.
Ur the smartest eskimo i know.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: VonMessa on December 17, 2010, 05:18:21 AM
Hiding in plain sight? what do you mean by that.

By the way my German Shephard iz bigger than yours :salute

By that I mean the true depth and scope of how far the Nazi intelligence network reached wasn't fully realized until they assumed total control.  That and the propaganda campaign launched has never been equaled, even to this day.  I think that this was all possible due to the exploitation of technology and their control of the media.  I do not think that this would be possible in this day and age with folks being as tech-savvy as they are these days.

Oh, and my German Shepherd is smarter than yours.  Plus he speaks German  :neener:

 :salute
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Shuffler on December 17, 2010, 09:05:57 AM
Hmm I pulled the book from my library.... closer to 4 inches.

Maybe yours has some side notes in it also.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Stampf on December 17, 2010, 09:12:31 AM
Hmm I pulled the book from my library.... closer to 4 inches.

Maybe yours has some side notes in it also.

snicker.

I didn't see this show yet.  Was it brought to you by the same people who advocate that the top leaders of the party are now flying around inside the hollow earth, in bell shaped time machines? 

Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Shuffler on December 17, 2010, 09:25:30 AM
I'm not talking about the movie.


The Book I am referring to is "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

Different book I guess.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Stampf on December 17, 2010, 09:30:37 AM
Yeah I know. 4 inches is dead on.  :aok

Two different thoughts in my previous post.

 :noid
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Shuffler on December 17, 2010, 09:32:19 AM
Yeah I know. 4 inches is dead on.  :aok

Two different thoughts in my previous post.

 :noid

OMG multiple thoughts....... in one post..... on this forum???   :rofl
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Stampf on December 17, 2010, 09:35:06 AM
OMG multiple thoughts....... in one post..... on this forum???   :rofl

I'll be more careful in the future.  :)

Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: VonMessa on December 17, 2010, 10:37:23 AM
snicker.

I didn't see this show yet.  Was it brought to you by the same people who advocate that the top leaders of the party are now flying around inside the hollow earth, in bell shaped time machines?  



Didn't you get the memo?
 :noid
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: ROX on December 17, 2010, 09:06:09 PM
Better yet:  READ Albert Speer's book.

It's FIRST HAND information from someone that was REALLY there.

Books....amazing things.



ROX
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: dev1ant on December 19, 2010, 12:55:07 PM
Better yet:  READ Albert Speer's book.

It's FIRST HAND information from someone that was REALLY there.

Books....amazing things.



ROX

This show is based largely upon the personal writings of Germans who were also REALLY there.  Books are always better, but that doesn't mean that quality documentaries aren't being made as well.  I only managed to catch the second part but it was one of the best documentaries on the Third Reich I've ever seen, and would highly recommend watching it.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Tupac on December 19, 2010, 01:39:17 PM
OMG multiple thoughts....... in one post..... on this forum???   :rofl

That hurts my brain just thinking about two thoughts at once.

On a related note the <brain fart> ......ouch
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: ROX on December 19, 2010, 02:33:33 PM
This show is based largely upon the personal writings of Germans who were also REALLY there.  Books are always better, but that doesn't mean that quality documentaries aren't being made as well.  I only managed to catch the second part but it was one of the best documentaries on the Third Reich I've ever seen, and would highly recommend watching it.

Oh--don't get me wrong, I'm sure the show is great and I can't wait to see it.

The book was great because it showed the rise & fall from a government insider.  Speer was the only major player who was convicted, served his time, and then wrote a major work (mostly while in prison) and showed true remorse for the things tied to his office.  You really have to hand it to Speer.  He could have easily walked out of prison...said he was "just following orders"...denied everything...went into obscurity...but he didn't.  Writing the book (and it's a thick read, over 500 pages if I remember) and then showing remorse was what Germany really needed at the time. 


I was lucky enough to spend a month in West Germany (BRD) my senior year in high school.  I'm happy I studied my German hard because I really needed it.  I stayed with two different families.  Except for the awesome archetecture, language, and food differences it was just like America.  The people were AWESOME and I literally loved every minute of it...(except for stepping over the first white line at the Lauenburg border crossing and having a kid step out on the DDR side and point an AK47 at my head...but that's a different story).  The families I stayed with treated me just like family.  Awesome people. 


ROX
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: SmokinLoon on December 19, 2010, 07:19:13 PM
I pee on 3rd reich IMO. ban me i dont care, my opinion. I have the right to express my opinion. If not so be it.

Of course you can form your own "opinions", everyone has.  But when you research and learn history you *must* put aside your personal opinions and analyze the events independent of your feelings, otherwise the information will not register for what it was.  The most important thing to keep in mind when you research history is that you are NOW and history was THEN, meaning that there are 2 sets of standards in which mankind is existing.  Do not judge them based on today's standard, you will go mad trying to make sense of it all.     

For instance, can you accept that Adolf Hitler did in fact do some legitimate good for Germany?  Can you accept that Stalin and Mao were responsible for 4X the number of non-combat civilian deaths via executions (their own people!!!) than Adolf Hitler?  No, I'm no Hitler sympathizer, but I do not cringe when he is brought up because I know there are worse monsters out there.  There are all kinds of examples of historical facts that need to be taken out of context when compared to modern standards. Always remember that before you voice your opinion.   ;)         
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Motherland on December 19, 2010, 09:10:06 PM
For instance, can you accept that Adolf Hitler did in fact do some legitimate good for Germany? 
Most of what good Hitler did for Germany was destroyed in the war. He also succeeded in signing away a significant portion of German territory and, on top of that, splitting the country in half for 45 years.
I suppose you could say he set the precedent for the Autobahn system.

Stalin and Mao brought third-world agrarian latrines to major industrialized world powers within 20 years of their taking of power. Despite all of the Cold War propaganda, you can't doubt that they also improved the quality of life for most of their citizens... I'd certainly rather live in the USSR than under the Czar.

Hitler, on the other hand, took a former superpower (in every sense of the word, scientifically, militarily, industrially) in financial crisis, and after a short rally destroyed it even more completely than it had been.

He certainly didn't compare well to his contemporaries.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: SmokinLoon on December 19, 2010, 09:35:37 PM
Most of what good Hitler did for Germany was destroyed in the war. He also succeeded in signing away a significant portion of German territory and, on top of that, splitting the country in half for 45 years.
I suppose you could say he set the precedent for the Autobahn system.

Stalin and Mao brought third-world agrarian latrines to major industrialized world powers within 20 years of their taking of power. Despite all of the Cold War propaganda, you can't doubt that they also improved the quality of life for most of their citizens... I'd certainly rather live in the USSR than under the Czar.

Hitler, on the other hand, took a former superpower (in every sense of the word, scientifically, militarily, industrially) in financial crisis, and after a short rally destroyed it even more completely than it had been.

He certainly didn't compare well to his contemporaries.


 :aok   Well said.  I hope more follow your lead when speaking of historical events regardless of how politically incorrect it is.  BTW, there are a whole host of things Hitler did that if you take away his name and the term "Nazi", most of the world would love to have had what German was in the mid to late 1930's.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: USRanger on December 19, 2010, 09:52:04 PM

 :aok   Well said.  I hope more follow your lead when speaking of historical events regardless of how politically incorrect it is.  BTW, there are a whole host of things Hitler did that if you take away his name and the term "Nazi", most of the world would love to have had what German was in the mid to late 1930's.

(http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1945-1959-volkswagen-beetle-10.jpg)
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Bodhi on December 19, 2010, 10:27:11 PM
Oh--don't get me wrong, I'm sure the show is great and I can't wait to see it.

The book was great because it showed the rise & fall from a government insider.  Speer was the only major player who was convicted, served his time, and then wrote a major work (mostly while in prison) and showed true remorse for the things tied to his office.  You really have to hand it to Speer.  He could have easily walked out of prison...said he was "just following orders"...denied everything...went into obscurity...but he didn't.  Writing the book (and it's a thick read, over 500 pages if I remember) and then showing remorse was what Germany really needed at the time. 


I was lucky enough to spend a month in West Germany (BRD) my senior year in high school.  I'm happy I studied my German hard because I really needed it.  I stayed with two different families.  Except for the awesome archetecture, language, and food differences it was just like America.  The people were AWESOME and I literally loved every minute of it...(except for stepping over the first white line at the Lauenburg border crossing and having a kid step out on the DDR side and point an AK47 at my head...but that's a different story).  The families I stayed with treated me just like family.  Awesome people. 


ROX

I have read both, and both are excellent reads.  I like Rise and Fall better as it has many different view points.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: zack1234 on December 20, 2010, 12:59:05 AM
i had a Volkwagen 1300S beetle it was poo like the Merc :old:
My NSU Prima D was very nice though, sold it last year, kept my Dayton Albatross 250 :old:
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: greens on December 20, 2010, 05:44:34 AM
Of course you can form your own "opinions", everyone has.  But when you research and learn history you *must* put aside your personal opinions and analyze the events independent of your feelings, otherwise the information will not register for what it was.  The most important thing to keep in mind when you research history is that you are NOW and history was THEN, meaning that there are 2 sets of standards in which mankind is existing.  Do not judge them based on today's standard, you will go mad trying to make sense of it all.     

For instance, can you accept that Adolf Hitler did in fact do some legitimate good for Germany?  Can you accept that Stalin and Mao were responsible for 4X the number of non-combat civilian deaths via executions (their own people!!!) than Adolf Hitler?  No, I'm no Hitler sympathizer, but I do not cringe when he is brought up because I know there are worse monsters out there.  There are all kinds of examples of historical facts that need to be taken out of context when compared to modern standards. Always remember that before you voice your opinion.   ;)         
You are exacltly right on the "good" what adolf hitler did for Germany, HITLER DYING AND BEING ADRUGGY WAS THE BEST THING THAT HAPPENED FOR Germany, sorry for caps my sons bday n i aint ther quite yet in the village <in anchorage>. and also for the world, if hitler was a die hard dictator  Geramny wpould span the whole Earth. IMO. thank GOD.  :salute :salute :salute greens
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Shuffler on December 20, 2010, 10:52:08 AM
   
For instance, can you accept that Adolf Hitler did in fact do some legitimate good for Germany?  Can you accept that Stalin and Mao were responsible for 4X the number of non-combat civilian deaths via executions (their own people!!!) than Adolf Hitler?  No, I'm no Hitler sympathizer, but I do not cringe when he is brought up because I know there are worse monsters out there.  There are all kinds of examples of historical facts that need to be taken out of context when compared to modern standards. Always remember that before you voice your opinion.   ;)          

Good comparison.... all were detrimental to their own people. I wonder if you considered actual percentages of their own folks they killed. Germany is a really small country after all. While percentages would be interesting, it really means nothing when a countries own leader is killing his own brethren.


Rox
I'll have to get that book and read it. Sounds interesting.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: zack1234 on December 20, 2010, 12:11:20 PM
Would Germany's standard of living have improved without Adolf Hitler coming to power?
As today Germany is at the center of Europe with a large educated population and a industrilised ecomomy, it does not require a dictatorship to play a major role in world affairs.


Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: VonMessa on December 20, 2010, 04:41:24 PM
Would Germany's standard of living have improved without Adolf Hitler coming to power?
As today Germany is at the center of Europe with a large educated population and a industrilised ecomomy, it does not require a dictatorship to play a major role in world affairs.




A very provocative question.

The German economy and morale were both in the toilet after WWI.  Relatives of mine have described it to me in terms of a wheelbarrow of Deutsch Marks would have bought you a load of bread and, if you were lucky, a newspaper.

It would be interesting to see how things would have played out. 
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: Motherland on December 20, 2010, 06:00:51 PM
Would Germany's standard of living have improved without Adolf Hitler coming to power?

The question is kind of moot, Germany was going to go down some kind of radical path after what happened to it after WWI.
I think it probably would have been possible, though, just look what happened after WWII.
Title: Re: Third Reich: Rise and fall
Post by: -tronski- on December 21, 2010, 02:26:59 AM
By 1939 Nazi Germany was heavily in debt. Its spending had doubled whilst its earning in real terms had stayed static before 1928.
Unemployment was low because of the massive spending by the Nazi govt with the expansion of the Armed forces, and public works. The nazification of the public sector had also allowed a large number of german men to find work at the expense of women, and newly classed "non germans".

 Tronsky