Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Plawranc on December 16, 2010, 03:49:30 PM
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Please :pray
Length: 37' 10" ( 11.53M)
Height: 12' 10" ( 3.91M)
Wignspan: 52' 0" ( 15.85M)
Wingarea: 328.00 Sq Ft ( 30.47Sq M)
Empty Weight: 12380.0lbs (5614.00Kg)
Gross Weight: 19500.0lbs (8843.00Kg)
Max Weight: 20300.0lbs (9206.00Kg)
Propulsion
No. of Engines: 2
Powerplant: Allison V-1710-89/91
Horsepower 1425 each
Performance
Range: 350 miles ( 563.00 Km)
Cruise Speed: 250.00 mph ( 402.00 Km/H / 217.30 Kt)
Max Speed: 402.00 Mph ( 647.00 Km/H / 349.73 Kt)
Climb: 3076.00 Ft/min ( 937.52 M/min)
Ceiling: 40000.0 Ft (12191.0M)
(http://www.afhra.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/080306-f-3927A-046.jpg)
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NO!!!!
Thanks, I've been wanting to say that all day ;) In truth it'd be allright I hear the Sapp guys are running low on spare planes and a happy Sapp is a good Sapp.
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Please :pray
Length: 37' 10" ( 11.53M)
Height: 12' 10" ( 3.91M)
Wignspan: 52' 0" ( 15.85M)
Wingarea: 328.00 Sq Ft ( 30.47Sq M)
Empty Weight: 12380.0lbs (5614.00Kg)
Gross Weight: 19500.0lbs (8843.00Kg)
Max Weight: 20300.0lbs (9206.00Kg)
Propulsion
No. of Engines: 2
Powerplant: Allison V-1710-89/91
Horsepower 1425 each
Performance
Range: 350 miles ( 563.00 Km)
Cruise Speed: 250.00 mph ( 402.00 Km/H / 217.30 Kt)
Max Speed: 402.00 Mph ( 647.00 Km/H / 349.73 Kt)
Climb: 3076.00 Ft/min ( 937.52 M/min)
Ceiling: 40000.0 Ft (12191.0M)
(http://www.afhra.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/080306-f-3927A-046.jpg)
A man after my own heart preach on brother
most used 38 :aok
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As the #1 P-38 fanatic in AH, it's sad to say but I don't see the value in adding the H other then for scenario or FSO use. We already have the definitive models of the P-38, adding the H would be nice but would be superfluous.
Though, I'd be in favor of adding the F model.
ack-ack
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:aok
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/80th%20Headhunters/Edcragg.jpg)
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As the #1 P-38 fanatic in AH, it's sad to say but I don't see the value in adding the H other then for scenario or FSO use. We already have the definitive models of the P-38, adding the H would be nice but would be superfluous.
Though, I'd be in favor of adding the F model.
ack-ack
Why not both? =) The H had the J's engines with the same poor cooling but more HP, and a higher bomb capacity than the G. The F? It was the first "combat" 38, so of course!
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Sad part is the photo the OP posted is actually a J model.
Sure I'd like an H or and F to add skins, but the 38G is the most numerous of the small intake 38s and covers the ground well, and I love 38s.
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I'm in dire need of the K model at this point. Yes yes, I know there was only 1 made but hey, I can only crash one at a time anyway :joystick:
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Wouldn't adding "H" be like adding the P-47M where we have the "N"? Yes, I do know we have the M
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Wouldn't adding "H" be like adding the P-47M where we have the "N"? Yes, I do know we have the M
From what I gather, adding the H would be just like giving the P-38G the performance of the P-38J.
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From what I gather, adding the H would be just like giving the P-38G the performance of the P-38J.
How about the "K"?
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How about the "K"?
LOL. A real properly modeled P-38K would bring much moaning, wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments. One was built, and one test mule was converted, both are lost to history, with the only photo being of the converted mule. It'd be a Hell of a perk ride.
I think the P-38H is a valid request, as is a P-38F. Considering we have other planes with 4-5 models, the P-38 is entitled to the same.
However, there are a lot of other planes that should be added before any more variants are added to any line up.
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Sad part is the photo the OP posted is actually a J model.
Sure I'd like an H or and F to add skins, but the 38G is the most numerous of the small intake 38s and covers the ground well, and I love 38s.
I thought that was the case, but since my eyes are getting older, I was looking for that photo with a caption somewhere to confirm it before I spoke.
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Explain to me what the H would do that the J doesn't?
More skins?
I'm being to lazy to look up the specific changes between the G, H and J.
Enlighten and educate me.
wrongway
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Explain to me what the H would do that the J doesn't?
More skins?
I'm being to lazy to look up the specific changes between the G, H and J.
Enlighten and educate me.
wrongway
kinda becoming a 38 enthusiast and would love to know also...
+1 for the experimental merlin K model :x
+2 for the H :aok
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From what I understand the H model had the engines as the J but the same intercooler design as the G. The H also had a larger bomb capacity then than the G and the improved cannons of the J. Once they moved the the intercoolers to between the oil coolers as opposed to the leading edge of the wings, that birthed the J model giving it better performance then the H.
The differences IMO between the G & H or the H and J would be so subtle that it wouldn't warrant a good argument for adding it to the plane set. Now the F model I believe had less horsepower then the G and probably better stall characteristics and low level fighting capabilities then the G. I would guess that it'd be the better knife fighter of the lot , but would be harder to handle.
In all honesty though, I don't see them adding another 38 to the plane set as we already have the 3 main variants. The only 38 we don't have that would make the biggest impact is the K model, but that's not even an option as they only made 2 and those never seen any combat.
Now lets talk about the A36.......................... . :D
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Explain to me what the H would do that the J doesn't?
More skins?
I'm being to lazy to look up the specific changes between the G, H and J.
Enlighten and educate me.
wrongway
It would be another P-38 that the P-47 ppl have to shot down. :O :D :t :devil
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can anyone post a pic of the K by chance?
and what made that model so special? ive never even heard of it. :headscratch:
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can anyone post a pic of the K by chance?
and what made that model so special? ive never even heard of it. :headscratch:
make the allisons into merlins. (merlin 66s correct?) and you basically know why it was good.
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can anyone post a pic of the K by chance?
and what made that model so special? ive never even heard of it. :headscratch:
The "P-38K" was nothing more than a modified P-38E test mule.
(http://www.456fis.org/THE%20P-38/Xp-38k.jpg)
ack-ack
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The differences IMO between the G & H or the H and J would be so subtle that it wouldn't warrant a good argument for adding it to the plane set.
The difference between the H and the J isn't so subtle. Even though the H and J shared the same engine, the new inter-cooler used on the J allowed for a substantial increase in rated power in addition to increased fuel load capacity. The J could fly faster and further than the H.
ack-ack
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The "P-38K" was nothing more than a modified P-38E test mule.
(http://www.456fis.org/THE%20P-38/Xp-38k.jpg)
ack-ack
then which was the merlin P38 test plane if it wasnt the K?
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then which was the merlin P38 test plane if it wasnt the K?
The "Merlin P-38" is nothing more than a myth. While there had been some discussions about the possibility of testing out the Merlin on a P-38, it never progressed past this "discussion" phase and not one single P-38 was ever fitted with a Merlin engine.
ack-ack
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The paddle props on the K was the big difference. Also I believe the 2nd K model had a 4 blade prop design. Not real sure though as I've never seen any pics of it.
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The "Merlin P-38" is nothing more than a myth. While there had been some discussions about the possibility of testing out the Merlin on a P-38, it never progressed past this "discussion" phase and not one single P-38 was ever fitted with a Merlin engine.
ack-ack
theres usually some truth behind every myth.
i can possably see a british p38 driver "modifying" his p38 with 2 merlin engines, then it slowly starting to catch on before the top brass decides to test one out to see if they want to put it in "official" production.
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theres usually some truth behind every myth.
i can possably see a british p38 driver "modifying" his p38 with 2 merlin engines, then it slowly starting to catch on before the top brass decides to test one out to see if they want to put it in "official" production.
Not quite that simple of a mod :)
Of course the RAF rejected the 38 they were given, which had been 'castrated' anyway
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theres usually some truth behind every myth.
i can possably see a british p38 driver "modifying" his p38 with 2 merlin engines, then it slowly starting to catch on before the top brass decides to test one out to see if they want to put it in "official" production.
To put Merlin engines on a P-38 would have required substantial redesigning of the nacelles. Also, the British didn't operate any P-38s other than the Model 322B, that was ultimately rejected (a.k.a. the castrated P-38) so any thought of a British P-38 pilot slapping in a couple of Merlins is well, a fantasy.
Repeat after me...There was no Merlin engine P-38 ever built or flown.
ack-ack
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http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm (http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm)
Lockheed paid close attention to the performance gains achieved with the P-47 when the new "high activity" Hamilton Standard propellers where first fitted on a Republic P-47C in mid 1942 (later, in mid 1943, these propellers were retro-fitted in Britain). The new "paddle" blade prop had significantly increased the rate of climb and acceleration of the "Jug". Lockheed decided that they would install the Hamilton Standard hydraulic propellers on one of the factory test "mules". Thus, was the XP-38K born. The "mule" was an extensively modified P-38E. The original intercoolers were replaced with the newer type introduced on the J model. The initial test results were very encouraging and a P-38G service test airframe (422-81, AFF serial number 42-13558) was selected to be modified.
The new propellers were not the only design changes made in the search for greater performance. This airframe was configured for the Allison V1710F-15 powerplants which were rated at over 1,875 bhp in War Emergency Power (as compared to 1,725 bhp for the V1710F-17 in the P-38L). This was the only P-38 so configured. The potent combination of the engine/propeller promised excellent performance.
There were still other modifications that were necessary. The Hamilton Standard props required a spinner of greater diameter, and the thrust line was slightly higher as well. This in turn, required that new cowlings be manufactured to properly blend the spinners into the engine nacelles. These were hand made and the fit was less than perfect. The new propellers necessitated a change to the reduction gear ratio. The Curtiss Electric props had a normal ratio of 2.00 to 1. The ratio was changed to 2.36 to 1.
Back to the H....
Essentially there is no reason to add it as it doesn't really fill any gaps between the G and the J?
wrongway
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The paddle props on the K was the big difference. Also I believe the 2nd K model had a 4 blade prop design. Not real sure though as I've never seen any pics of it.
I only think there was one "P-38K" which was the heavily modified P-38E that I had posted. In any event, it was a 3 bladed prop from Hamilton.
(http://www.456fis.org/THE%20P-38/P-38props.JPG)
ack-ack
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Finding any kind of real info on the 38K is near impossible as I don't have the resourses that some of you have. But the F has really peaked my interest. Am I correct in assuming that it would turn better than the G? Maybe slightly lighter too? A low speed, duel prop, stall fighter would be the cats meow :airplane:
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http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm (http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm)
Back to the H....
Essentially there is no reason to add it as it doesn't really fill any gaps between the G and the J?
wrongway
Since the H was the one to go into combat in the ETO with the 55th, maybe it would be nice :) Or because it would mean more skins for the Headhunter 38s!
Uptown, F and G essentially the same bird. It wouldn't be better, but similar.
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http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm (http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm)
Back to the H....
Essentially there is no reason to add it as it doesn't really fill any gaps between the G and the J?
wrongway
Sure it does. If my thinking is correct, what you'd have is basically a G with wep or a great turning J .................almost anyway.
If the F and G are about the same then I wouldn't see any reason to add it. Tha'd be like adding the P51K . Kind of pointless. The three 38s we have how seem to cover all the bases already.
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Akak's post had me thinking that the F might offer something different then we already have. Other then skins that is.
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Akak's post had me thinking that the F might offer something different then we already have. Other then skins that is.
Depends on what F model. Early F models didn't have the "combat maneuvering" setting until the P-38F-15. Don't know how many early model Fs were produced but if we were to get the F, this is the early F model (w/out the combat manuevering setting) I would want.
ack-ack
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There was a real, from the ground up K model built. No photos are known to exist, and it was either destroyed, dismantled, or converted. The pictures are of the test mule (maybe as early as an E model to begin with) that was converted to match the K model.
The K had 1750HP (military power, 1875HP WEP) Allisons with fully counterweighted crankshafts and an improved intake manifold, similar to the G series Allisons.
The K had the three blade version of the Hamilton Standard High Activity Paddle propeller, it was around 13'6" I think. There was never a four blade version fitted.
The K required new nose cowls for the engine and propeller area, as the gearbox was different, as was the gear ratio, and the propellers were higher in relation to the engine. The War Production Board, citing the extremely high demand for the P-38, and the lack of second sourcing, denied Lockheed permission to shut down each of the two production lines for 1-2 weeks each, the time required to make the changes.
There was NEVER a Merlin powered P-38. Lockheed did a study and found the idea had no merit. The use of the Merlin in the P-38 would have added well over 1500 pounds to the air frame, and would have reduced both climbing performance and range. If you want to butcher a P-38, and make a pig out of it, hang Merlins on it. The P-38 had no need for Merlins, the turbocharged Allison F series V-1710 had all of the high altitude performance anyone could use, and maintained sea level HP far above any altitude any but the most special tuned Merlin could ever hope to.
The K model could climb to 20K from a standing start on the runway in around 4-5 minutes, it could reach over 450MPH in level flight, at altitudes high enough to reach compressibility in level flight, and had almost 20% more range than a P-38J. All of this was done with a rough hand fitted cowling, and in the case of the test mule, on an already well worn, used and abused air frame.
The Hamilton Standard propeller also reduced the load on the electrical system, since it was hydrostatic, as opposed to the junky electric Curtiss propeller. The single biggest flaw from the P-38J on was the Curtiss electric propeller. It wasted a good 20% or more of the power produced by the Allison engine, and taxed the electrical system. Had they just changed the propeller on the P-38, from the J model on, from the Curtiss to the Hamilton Standard, first to the three blade, and later to the four blade, the P-38 would have gained considerably in top speed, climb rate, range, and acceleration. Consider that even with the Curtiss propeller, the P-38 accelerated faster from cruise speed to 400MPH than any other fighter in the U.S. inventory until maybe the F8F.
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http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm (http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm)
Back to the H....
Essentially there is no reason to add it as it doesn't really fill any gaps between the G and the J?
wrongway
somebody kill wrongway
H faster than g turn of g whats not to like
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Think of the H as a G with WEP (short duration), and a little more military power, with about the same weight. It was the plane the 55th and 20th started with in late 43, so it is pretty significant historically.
Again, as nice as it would be to have, there are other planes needed. However, if they were to add variants to any other plane already in the hangar, the P-38H is a viable a candidate as any, since there are other planes with more than three variants.
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Think of the H as a G with WEP (short duration), and a little more military power, with about the same weight. It was the plane the 55th and 20th started with in late 43, so it is pretty significant historically.
Again, as nice as it would be to have, there are other planes needed. However, if they were to add variants to any other plane already in the hangar, the P-38H is a viable a candidate as any, since there are other planes with more than three variants.
Yeah and our 19 H's lost 8 of them within 3 months time November '43 to January '44
By then we got our J models and had separated from the 55th totally
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Alright.
You all caught me.
What I am wishing for is a G thats faster and with WEP, but with the same turn. OK?!
and the P-38 at my local museum is an H, and seeing as I donated 100$ to its reconstruction I want to fly it !!
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kinda becoming a 38 enthusiast and would love to know also...
+1 for the experimental merlin K model :x
+2 for the H :aok
god a merlin i hate merlins :noid
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Akak's post had me thinking
he does that to me all of the time now Virgil is chiming in and it's like an evil vortex of factual history... a little more and my brain will explode.
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so whos up for the P38H then or the F? ill take both
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I would also vote for the early F. :aok
Going back to the K model, there was an article by Corey C. Jordan, titled "What ever happened to the Lockheed P-38K? The Story of the Best Performing Variant of the P-38 Lightning."
If you love Lightnings, you'll love this article.
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I would also vote for the early F. :aok
Going back to the K model, there was an article by Corey C. Jordan, titled "What ever happened to the Lockheed P-38K? The Story of the Best Performing Variant of the P-38 Lightning."
If you love Lightnings, you'll love this article.
Corey C. Jordan is a long time Aces High player, you guys know him by his handle "Widewing".
ack-ack
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The article is posted here: http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm (http://www.456fis.org/P-38K.htm)
The other article on that site, with contributions from Art Heiden and Stan Richardson Jr, both of whom I had the distinct pleasure of getting to know via email, as well as another man, I think his name was Dr. Carlo Kopp, dispelled a ton of bogus B.S., rumors, and wives' tails regarding the P-38.
That article can be found here: http://www.ausairpower.net/P-38-Analysis.html (http://www.ausairpower.net/P-38-Analysis.html)
Unfortunately, I think ATT killed WideWing's website, Planes and Pilots of World War II, I'm not sure how much he was able to save, or if he will ever put it back up. That's truly sad, there was some great stuff on that site.
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the H and F will be far down on the list to make planes as there are already 3 38 models :(
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Since there are 6 Spitfires, I think we should have a fourth P-38. Just one old man's view. :old: