Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: killb8 on December 22, 2010, 07:38:30 PM

Title: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: killb8 on December 22, 2010, 07:38:30 PM
  If you were transported back to 1939 knowing what you know now, and given the opportunity. Would you volunteer to fly?  If so what and for whom. Personally I would say yes to any Allied F/G with out hesitation or even considering the odds. I'm not the "hero" type, and my motivation wouldn't come from any patriotic sentiments either, although they do exist in me. I would say yes purely because of my own self interests and the fact the WW2 fighter pilot had the most awesome job in history.
  I would fly bombers too, but only if I couldn't fly fighters. I would fly transports too, but only if I couldn't fly bombers. The only WW2 piloting job I would refuse would be that of torpedo bomber, those guys were crazy!
     
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Dichotomy on December 22, 2010, 08:02:20 PM
yes absolutely
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: fbWldcat on December 22, 2010, 08:04:10 PM
Sign me up! Lemme just go jump into my hot tub time machine real quick...
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Serenity on December 22, 2010, 08:05:50 PM
Was watching Pearl Harbor recently (Girlfriend really wanted to watch it again) and this exact discussion came up. Without hesitation, I would have volunteered for a spot in an Eagle squadron, and kept flying whatever I was told to fly. (This got a sharp smack from my girl, who doesn't even want me going into the military now, but has accepted that she doesn't have a choice in that matter).

I will admit, in my own self interest, I would do EVERYTHING in my power to assure I NEVER get stationed fighting against the Japanese. From the reading I have done, being a POW in Germany was rough, but generally survivable and humane. Japan on the otherhand... The whole lot of them should have been slaughtered for what they did, but that's a different discussion for a different thread.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Simaril on December 22, 2010, 08:06:11 PM
Officers in the air corps had the lowest survival of any officers in the army. (Have to admit that U boat officers probably were worse than that, but even so...) Joining the air corps in the late 30s would most likely have cost your life.

From our perspective in the 21st century it is very very difficult to imagine how utterly frightening the late 1930s were. There was every reason to believe that the time of freedom was passed, that democracy and free markets had failed, and that the future belonged to centrally controlled governments.

Regardless of that tension and fear, most of us would probably answer the call to do what it took to help our country. But don't forget that most people who actually WERE THERE in 1939 didn't join up, and just hoped that the whole thing would blow over.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Motherland on December 22, 2010, 08:09:03 PM
Given the choice between joining the airforce and getting drafted to get shoved in the meat grinder...
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: USRanger on December 22, 2010, 08:17:30 PM
(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5852/rangerc.gif) (http://img90.imageshack.us/i/rangerc.gif/)

Some prefer the meat grinder. :P  Best job no matter what era. :) :salute
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Simaril on December 22, 2010, 08:23:21 PM
My dad was a Ranger.

As a kid found his uniforms in the closet, and saw the shoulder tabs - but had no idea what they meant until I grew up. He and mom just had their 50th anniversary, and they had some pics of him in Ranger school I'd never seen before...a leaner and tougher guy than I'd ever known.

<S> to those who serve
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: eagl on December 22, 2010, 08:27:00 PM
I'd fly if I could, preferrably in a fighter.  If I could carry with me EVERYTHING I know, I'd first spend some time writing it all down so maybe some of my comrades in arms would also live longer in combat and my knowledge/experience flying fighters wouldn't be lost if I was killed.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Lusche on December 22, 2010, 08:27:04 PM
 If you were transported back to 1939 knowing what you know now, and given the opportunity. Would you volunteer to fly?

If there would be no location change with that time tavel (=I appear at the same place I am now), I would try my utmost and beyond to get to Sweden...

(The fact that it would never be able to fly anything has nothing to do with that ;))
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Dichotomy on December 22, 2010, 08:29:35 PM
(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5852/rangerc.gif) (http://img90.imageshack.us/i/rangerc.gif/)

Some prefer the meat grinder. :P  Best job no matter what era. :) :salute

what would you think if you got in the goon, looked up front, and saw me sitting at the controls?

<S> Ranger :D
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Penguin on December 22, 2010, 08:48:12 PM
Me?  Heck no!  I like my face with five*, not five-hundred holes.

-Penguin

*Five: Mouth, 2 nostrils, 2 ear holes
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Tac on December 22, 2010, 10:28:26 PM
I'd go with the flying tigers & pressure them to get meh a P-38 :D
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: thndregg on December 22, 2010, 11:06:25 PM
Whatever capacity I could, I would fight. It's either that -with some control over your fate, however short or long your life is- versus being ruled by some tyranical dictatorship that rules every single concievable aspect of your existence on this planet.

I prefer freedom.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Tupac on December 22, 2010, 11:07:35 PM
Absolutely.

I've always felt like I was born in the wrong time, and I have had many a dream about myself being a fighter pilot in ww2
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: flight17 on December 22, 2010, 11:15:28 PM
Me?  Heck no!  I like my face with five*, not five-hundred holes.

-Penguin

*Five: Mouth, 2 nostrils, 2 ear holes
your ears are one your face?!?!?!?!


I Would think that i would, but i cant really say for sure.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: shotgunneeley on December 22, 2010, 11:51:38 PM
I would serve in some capacity on a B-17. Strategic high altitude bombing, combat boxes and defensive aerial gunnery have always fascinated me.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: nrshida on December 23, 2010, 12:39:39 AM
I wonder if the Aces High time travelling pilots would do better than the average new pilot recruits from the era?
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Melvin on December 23, 2010, 12:52:33 AM
I wonder if the Aces High time travelling pilots would do better than the average new pilot recruits from the era?

Doubtful. Way too much bravado.

Most wouldn't make it past the first N.C.O.

<S> Melvin
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: BrownBaron on December 23, 2010, 12:59:35 AM
Why are people so eager to join up in a FG? I've heard this a thousand times, and I'm sure all you have too. "Fighter pilots make movies, bomber crews make histroy.". I feel that German fighter pilots could have held off many times their own numbers in allied fighter pilots, but with the huge allied bombing campaigns, their capacity to resist was slowly ground in to a fine powder. I would join up to serve in a high-altitude heavy bomber, as I'd be helping the war effort much more by destroying a warehouse containing 150 Bf 109 engines than shooting down maybe 1 or 2. MAYBE.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Tyrannis on December 23, 2010, 01:03:21 AM
  If you were transported back to 1939 knowing what you know now, and given the opportunity. Would you volunteer to fly?  If so what and for whom. Personally I would say yes to any Allied F/G with out hesitation or even considering the odds. I'm not the "hero" type, and my motivation wouldn't come from any patriotic sentiments either, although they do exist in me. I would say yes purely because of my own self interests and the fact the WW2 fighter pilot had the most awesome job in history.
  I would fly bombers too, but only if I couldn't fly fighters. I would fly transports too, but only if I couldn't fly bombers. The only WW2 piloting job I would refuse would be that of torpedo bomber, those guys were crazy!
     

if i was transported back to 1939, i'd walk up to the president and be like "hey d00d, sup? guess what? we're gonna be at war in 2 years. but dont worry! i know everything thats gonna happen, and everything we need to win! ok? good. but ya know,  if you want my help you gotta make ME president"  :D  :lol
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Serenity on December 23, 2010, 01:15:45 AM
Why are people so eager to join up in a FG? I've heard this a thousand times, and I'm sure all you have too. "Fighter pilots make movies, bomber crews make histroy.". I feel that German fighter pilots could have held off many times their own numbers in allied fighter pilots, but with the huge allied bombing campaigns, their capacity to resist was slowly ground in to a fine powder. I would join up to serve in a high-altitude heavy bomber, as I'd be helping the war effort much more by destroying a warehouse containing 150 Bf 109 engines than shooting down maybe 1 or 2. MAYBE.

My first instinct was to go into bombers, and I wouldn't be particularly adverse to it. But I think a big part of it is the ability to be in control of your own destiny. In a bomber, your biggest enemy is the flak. Once you're lined up on the IP there isn't a lot you can do. You stay in formation, keep your speed and position constant, and just hope the fighters don't pick you, and the flak doesn't end up in the same point in space you occupy. In a fighter, you were in control. When the enemy came in, you could maneuver, you had the ability to take action and affect weather you live or die. And should you buy the farm in a fighter, at least you could say you gave it your all and went out kicking, whereas the last seconds of a BUFF crew were probably spent sitting still.

Don't get me wrong, I have even more respect for the bomber crews for having the bravery to go in that way. It takes a strong man to put his life on the line. It takes a rock to go in without being able to 'fight back'.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: APDrone on December 23, 2010, 07:13:53 AM
if i was transported back to 1939, i'd walk up to the president and be like "hey d00d, sup? guess what? we're gonna be at war in 2 years. but dont worry! i know everything thats gonna happen, and everything we need to win! ok? good. but ya know,  if you want my help you gotta make ME president"  :D  :lol

This is probably the closest response I've seen to the best use of one's knowledge.. tho it is horribly exaggerated.

With what I know of history ( Or what I believe to know, until they change it ) my war effort would be far better served advising the military commanders, instead of putting my knowledge base in the hands of fate, hoping a critical aircraft part doesn't fail, on its own, during a critical moment of time where controlled flight flirts with uncontrolled tumbling.

Also, and this may be the more pressing concern.. if I was transported back, who's to say a Japanese, German, or Italian nationalist didn't transport back also.. and would they be frantically working with their government to prevent the snafus they committed that allowed the war to progress as it did.

There are so many instances of pure, dumb luck that the allies enjoyed in WW2... I often wonder if this sort of event didn't ( or will? ) happen already.

Merry Christmas!

Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Plawranc on December 23, 2010, 07:17:38 AM
Well, I am too tall to fly so.

if I cant fly in them.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Waves_of_paratroops_land_in_Holland.jpg)

Ill jump out of them  :aok
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Lusche on December 23, 2010, 10:22:07 AM
I wonder if the Aces High time travelling pilots would do better than the average new pilot recruits from the era?

They would try to HO at the first pass, then discover they can't just reup another plane... 
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Simaril on December 23, 2010, 11:18:25 AM
I would serve in some capacity on a B-17. Strategic high altitude bombing, combat boxes and defensive aerial gunnery have always fascinated me.

I think some here underestimating the importance of one critical fact:

War is about KILLING. This means participants DIE.



I suspect some of the younger ones here don't really get what that means. We're not talking about high tech 21st century precision techno war. World War 2 was an industrial war, and in many ways it worked like a meat grinder - it was an attrition machine that chewed up men and material. The longer you were around it, the less likely you were to survive.


And the air war was every bit as deadly as the ground battles. In fact, it was more deadly for officers!

After the fall of France, when Great Britain at first tried some daylight missions with essentially obsolete hardware and tactics, some missions had no survivors. Think about that when you talk about starting the war in 1939.

When the US bomber campaigns started in earnest in 1943, mortality rates were estimated at about 4% PER MISSION. This is why the initial tour was set at 25 missions, and frankly odds were bomber crews just flat wouldn't survive to that point. Some missions had 20% or higher mortality on A SINGLE MISSION.

Be thankful we get to play a game.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: JunkyII on December 23, 2010, 11:20:24 AM
(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5852/rangerc.gif) (http://img90.imageshack.us/i/rangerc.gif/)

Some prefer the meat grinder. :P  Best job no matter what era. :) :salute
Rangers lead the way :rock
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Zoney on December 23, 2010, 01:21:29 PM
Knowing what I do now, yes, I would volunteer to be a pilot for whatever aircraft they determined I would be best suited for.  I would not expect to qualify though.  If I did qualify I would not expect to survive the war, or be a hero, and I would be just fine with that.

The motivation is from the "knowing" part.  If those brave men had not gone to battle, and done their best, we would not now live in a free society.  I would rather die trying to get us there than live without freedom.  Period.  No gray area.

I would also use all my knowledge to win, no rules, no quarter given, including running like a girl when at a disadvantage to save myself and my aircraft to allow the opportunity to kill more of them later, with an advantage, without remorse.


Finally, with all that bravo, I am guessing I would piss my pants at the first sighting of an enemy aircraft engaging me.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Simaril on December 23, 2010, 03:11:50 PM
I'd like to think I would have been right there volunteering.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: fbWldcat on December 23, 2010, 08:43:52 PM
Long as I get to fly, I'd join.  :rock
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Karnak on December 23, 2010, 08:59:13 PM
If I woke up in 1939, well, I would be extremely leery of doing anything that could significantly alter the course of history.  It really turned out rather well, all things considered.

The thought that would prey on my mind though is this, what if I am not the only one and what if the other(s) are inclined to try to alter history (perhaps being a Nazi or Japanese ultra-nationalist), then what?  That line of thought might prompt myself to try to get into a position where I could blend into the back ground and not change much, but be positioned to step forward should, say, the Japanese win a smashing victory at Midway.

The other thing to note is that knowing the future, convincing people in power you knew it and them acting on the knowledge would rapidly reduce the accuracy of your ability to predict the future, soon being in no better position than those native to that time.  Obviously some areas, such as technical advice, would still be open, but the flow of the war would soon be a fog to you as well.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: skorpion on December 23, 2010, 09:45:00 PM
I've heard some great stories about flying a fighter in the wars, prefferably the adrenaline rush and the satisfactory of getting a kill. I have always been intested in planes since i was born. i know what im going to do with my life and thats joining the U.S. Airforce! if i could go back to 1939 and join back then i wouldnt refuse any offer to join in on the action.
 :airplane: :salute
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Lusche on December 23, 2010, 09:56:04 PM
I've heard some great stories about flying a fighter in the wars, prefferably the adrenaline rush and the satisfactory of getting a kill.

And what you have rarely read or heard  were the great stories of fear, angst, nervous breakdowns, or even feelings of guilt for having killed someone.
Because that's nothing what used to be told back when most of those "heroic" literature was first written.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: killb8 on December 24, 2010, 05:34:59 PM
 Splendid remarks all around! A couple replies really stick out.
Quote
The motivation is from the "knowing" part.  If those brave men had not gone to battle, and done their best, we would not now live in a free society.  I would rather die trying to get us there than live without freedom.  Period.  No gray area.
Very well stated sir.
Quote
And what you have rarely read or heard  were the great stories of fear, angst, nervous breakdowns, or even feelings of guilt for having killed someone.
Because that's nothing what used to be told back when most of those "heroic" literature was first written.
Quote
War is about KILLING. This means participants DIE.



I suspect some of the younger ones here don't really get what that means. We're not talking about high tech 21st century precision techno war. World War 2 was an industrial war, and in many ways it worked like a meat grinder - it was an attrition machine that chewed up men and material. The longer you were around it, the less likely you were to survive.
  A story that gave me pause was about a jug pilot making a gear up landing. He lined up on the runway and brought her in perfectly, but as soon as his plane touched the runway a spark ignited his fuel. Emergency personnel converged on the plane instantly and attempted to rescue him. They grabbed his arms as he was burning and tried to pull him out, but the flesh on his arms just tore away. Helpless to save him they saw the flesh melting off of his face as he was still alive and even trying to communicate. The horror!
Quote
Well, I am too tall to fly so.

if I cant fly in them.
We are talking about B6pacman am I correct? With that voice I'd guess you to be about 5ft4in tall! :neener:
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Tom5572 on December 24, 2010, 11:59:56 PM
War is about killing people and breaking the opposing sides ability to execute that war without prejudice.

It is not about the glory, though there is glory to be had.  It is about the men to your left and right.  It is about making the right decisions to ensure they get home. 

If I could go back to 1939, I would.  I am too broken down now to be effective as a platoon Sergeant in that era so I would have to volunteer my services else where.  Truth be told if anyone from now were to go back in time they would be instantaneously classified At levels above Top Secret.  Imagine the amount of information a single person, who has a fascination with World War II, could provide to either side.  Enigma, Wind Talkers, the breaking of Japanese code, Manhattan, D-Day, Patton's fake Army, the Battle of the Bulge, radios, computers, microwaves, all of it.  What we now know as common knowledge would be incredible to them.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: guncrasher on December 25, 2010, 01:18:54 AM
me If i knew back then what I know now, sure as hell woudnt be a pilot, most people that were pilots in 1939 didnt see the end of the war.  unless they got shot down and captured by the enemy, then maybe. 

semp
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: bagrat on December 25, 2010, 01:56:27 AM
nah i like being able to see in color
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Plawranc on December 25, 2010, 05:08:37 AM
I am 6 ft 4 now Killbait and still growing. And the reason I have that voice is because of the damn audio in AH2. Talk to the guys who have heard me on TS3.

And the younger people don't know what it means? Im a younger person, and I have shook hands with guys who have ended up in a sandy ditch blown to pieces by an IED. And talked to WW2 vets who have lost legs. Not to mention my entire family has been military (even the women who were nurses, most of my family are florence nightingale effectee's) since the Boer War, and most likely beyond. Ive seen my mother die of heart failure in front of me and I have been in the ROTC for long enough to have a grasp on being a uniformed person and all the drilling, marching and pain it entails.

I have seen stuff at the age of 17 some kids go their entire lives not seeing. And im STILL planning on joining the military. I would do it not for the thrill or that nonsense. But for the fact that there will be 30 other dumber kids like me going too. And by me being less dumb, I could keep them alive (Am an NCO in ROTC /Air Training Corps) better than the other kids (thats what they are) out of boot.

The fact of the matter is, there are some here who are ready to do what must be done, and there are some who aren't. And it just seems to me that when people say these things, they have no claim to it. Guys like Ranger, Dashe and Danny76 and many others who play this game have seen people die on an industrial scale for nothing more than a small bit of jungle that noone knows the name of. Id ask them over some historian about what its like.
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Serenity on December 25, 2010, 05:59:32 PM
I am 6 ft 4 now Killbait and still growing. And the reason I have that voice is because of the damn audio in AH2. Talk to the guys who have heard me on TS3.

And the younger people don't know what it means? Im a younger person, and I have shook hands with guys who have ended up in a sandy ditch blown to pieces by an IED. And talked to WW2 vets who have lost legs. Not to mention my entire family has been military (even the women who were nurses, most of my family are florence nightingale effectee's) since the Boer War, and most likely beyond. Ive seen my mother die of heart failure in front of me and I have been in the ROTC for long enough to have a grasp on being a uniformed person and all the drilling, marching and pain it entails.

I have seen stuff at the age of 17 some kids go their entire lives not seeing. And im STILL planning on joining the military. I would do it not for the thrill or that nonsense. But for the fact that there will be 30 other dumber kids like me going too. And by me being less dumb, I could keep them alive (Am an NCO in ROTC /Air Training Corps) better than the other kids (thats what they are) out of boot.

The fact of the matter is, there are some here who are ready to do what must be done, and there are some who aren't. And it just seems to me that when people say these things, they have no claim to it. Guys like Ranger, Dashe and Danny76 and many others who play this game have seen people die on an industrial scale for nothing more than a small bit of jungle that noone knows the name of. Id ask them over some historian about what its like.

I don't think the folks like you and I are the ones they're speaking to about not understanding what war is. We've already made our decisions, and hopefully, they are well informed decisions.

It's the kids who go "I wanna fly t3h uber fiter cuz its awesome and i wanna be liek ben afleck! and i wanna be cool!" that they're speaking to. We've all met them, from the 14 year old I spoke to recently when I was crewing a static aircraft display at an airshow, who swore he was gonna be a SEAL so he could learn to kill everybody and be like  that guy from the Borne movies... Because "SEALs are the only real soldiers. People who fly planes are just not strong enough to go in special forces"...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Penguin on December 25, 2010, 06:08:56 PM
The strength required to pull the higher G loads on an aircraft is actually absurd.  Imagine going from 70 kilos to 350 kilos in less than a second, then going back down, and doing it again!

-Penguin

70 kilos~155 pounds (Average healthy male), 350 kilos~770 pounds (Nearing the human weight record of 1,190 pounds)




Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Serenity on December 25, 2010, 06:20:15 PM
The strength required to pull the higher G loads on an aircraft is actually absurd.  Imagine going from 70 kilos to 350 kilos in less than a second, then going back down, and doing it again!

-Penguin

70 kilos~155 pounds (Average healthy male), 350 kilos~770 pounds (Nearing the human weight record of 1,190 pounds)






Positive Gs have always been easy for me. I have the HARDEST time maintaining control in negative Gs though... So all those fancy push-over maneuvers... not gonna happen lol
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: kcfarris on December 25, 2010, 11:06:46 PM
I am 6 ft 4 now Killbait and still growing. And the reason I have that voice is because of the damn audio in AH2. Talk to the guys who have heard me on TS3.

And the younger people don't know what it means? Im a younger person, and I have shook hands with guys who have ended up in a sandy ditch blown to pieces by an IED. And talked to WW2 vets who have lost legs. Not to mention my entire family has been military (even the women who were nurses, most of my family are florence nightingale effectee's) since the Boer War, and most likely beyond. Ive seen my mother die of heart failure in front of me and I have been in the ROTC for long enough to have a grasp on being a uniformed person and all the drilling, marching and pain it entails.

I have seen stuff at the age of 17 some kids go their entire lives not seeing. And im STILL planning on joining the military. I would do it not for the thrill or that nonsense. But for the fact that there will be 30 other dumber kids like me going too. And by me being less dumb, I could keep them alive (Am an NCO in ROTC /Air Training Corps) better than the other kids (thats what they are) out of boot.

The fact of the matter is, there are some here who are ready to do what must be done, and there are some who aren't. And it just seems to me that when people say these things, they have no claim to it. Guys like Ranger, Dashe and Danny76 and many others who play this game have seen people die on an industrial scale for nothing more than a small bit of jungle that noone knows the name of. Id ask them over some historian about what its like.
 If I insulted you B6 I sincerely apologize. I was just trying to be cute, looks like I failed.  


killb8
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: -tronski- on December 26, 2010, 06:17:59 AM
Meh, I'd buy shares in Packard, Consolidated, or Curtiss-Wright

I have been in the ROTC for long enough to have a grasp on being a uniformed person and all the drilling, marching and pain it entails.


They have ROTC in SA?

 Tronsky
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: CptTrips on December 26, 2010, 12:50:21 PM
Whatever capacity I could, I would fight. It's either that -with some control over your fate, however short or long your life is- versus being ruled by some tyranical dictatorship that rules every single concievable aspect of your existence on this planet.

Married much?

;),
Wab
Title: Re: Stupid hypothetical question
Post by: Penguin on December 26, 2010, 04:12:45 PM
Positive Gs have always been easy for me. I have the HARDEST time maintaining control in negative Gs though... So all those fancy push-over maneuvers... not gonna happen lol

Ah, the vomit comet, never fails to make me laugh.

-Penguin