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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dedalos on December 27, 2010, 01:05:01 PM

Title: CVs
Post by: dedalos on December 27, 2010, 01:05:01 PM
Two suggestions:

1)  Make their guns indestructible. The reason is that the dweeb dieing 10 times trying to kill a CV gets unlimited lives and tries.  The CV does not get unlimited gun "lives".  Therefore, after strafing a cv X number of times, it is rendered defenseless.  Once a single guy decides to target a CV, it is all over.  Lets even the playing field.  If they can keep upping new planes, let the CV keep its guns.

2)  Make the ack around CVs actually useful.  Right now someone can pick you with the 5" 5K out if you are in a fighter, but if two sets of buffs come in from different angles you don't have enough time to react.  The 40and 20mm guns are useless.  Low over the water buffs can get to the CV on time to drop a few times until its dead.  Who knows, it may actually allow the guys upping from it also get some alt before they die.

Since some of you that like the easy mode will come back with the if you don;t like it defend your CV, I ll answer it now.  You can't defend it for the above reasons.  Not to mention that guys go out to sink them when no one is around.  There is no way a single guy should be able to get close to a CV group.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: Furball on December 27, 2010, 01:11:30 PM
Do the above, and then remove the cruiser = fun dogfights for everyone, yay!
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: Blooz on December 27, 2010, 01:11:48 PM
You're hanging on too tight Cougar.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: oTRALFZo on December 27, 2010, 01:13:47 PM
There is a reason why that dweeb is dying 10 times. If he gets to kill that cv, then more power to em.

Im -1 on this Ded..I target the guns specificly to try to get them to up in planes and making them indestructable would just bust the springs in the armchair general's computer chair as they would just never up
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: Furball on December 27, 2010, 01:17:40 PM
how about removing all guns, cruiser, and making the cv indestructible?
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: Dr_Death8 on December 27, 2010, 01:24:28 PM
Think of it this way, in a real life scenario, there would be a heck of alot more than 1-2 people attacking and/or defending against a CV. Rather than having a system which "moves" players to a battle area as needed, you get to re-up unlimited times. :salute
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: Dr_Death8 on December 27, 2010, 01:27:44 PM
how about removing all guns, cruiser, and making the cv indestructible?
Wouldn't work because then you would have absolutely no defense against a CV attack. You could anchor a CV off shore from a base and just attack and take at leisure. :salute

Now the questionable aspect may be what amount of damage can each gun position take before it is destroyed, and do they "heal" themselves like an ack at any other base would (~45min)? :salute
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: dedalos on December 27, 2010, 01:30:07 PM
There is a reason why that dweeb is dying 10 times. If he gets to kill that cv, then more power to em.


The point is that it is not an IF.  He will sink it, no matter what.  There is no cost to him what so ever and it is off balance.  He has unlimited planes and ammo and the CV does not.  
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: ImADot on December 27, 2010, 01:33:53 PM
It's a 24x7 global game.  There will almost certainly be someone online on YOUR off times.  Why should it matter to you what others do while you're not online?  If it matters so much to you, just quit your job and spend 24x7 online playing "save the CV".
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: dedalos on December 27, 2010, 01:37:42 PM
It's a 24x7 global game.  There will almost certainly be someone online on YOUR off times.  Why should it matter to you what others do while you're not online?  If it matters so much to you, just quit your job and spend 24x7 online playing "save the CV".

What are you talking about?  :rofl
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 27, 2010, 01:49:12 PM
1. You cannot kill the hangers on a cv.  Up a plane.

2. Pork the ords.  CVs always have ords.  Destroy his ords and his unlimited lives are just that.

Any low buffs that keep coming, over and over, are just free kills.



wrongway
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: dedalos on December 27, 2010, 01:53:24 PM
1. You cannot kill the hangers on a cv.  Up a plane.

2. Pork the ords.  CVs always have ords.  Destroy his ords and his unlimited lives are just that.

Any low buffs that keep coming, over and over, are just free kills.



wrongway

Up a plane?  :rofl  What CV plane has the ability to catch a 190 at re-entry speeds?  Or did you mean up a plane against buffs?  The second is even worse.  You will die before you take them all out leaving the CV completely defenseless.

Pork the ords, good idea.  That is exactly how a CV group would defend against single plane attacks  :lol
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: Shuffler on December 27, 2010, 01:56:12 PM
I have to admit... I have had a lot of fun in GV guns.

I have also been on the receiving end at great distances. Auto ack is stout.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: grizz441 on December 27, 2010, 01:57:37 PM
Two suggestions:

1)  Make their guns indestructible. The reason is that the dweeb dieing 10 times trying to kill a CV gets unlimited lives and tries.  The CV does not get unlimited gun "lives". 

Not exactly true.  As long as the port is not captured, the CV will simply respawn again at full strength.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: dedalos on December 27, 2010, 02:01:46 PM
Not exactly true.  As long as the port is not captured, the CV will simply respawn again at full strength.

Yeah, the CV will after it is sunk.  Maybe a different argument?  I would compare the CV to a field not an individual plane.

So you agree that a single guy should be able to sink a CV if he is willing to die a few times.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: grizz441 on December 27, 2010, 02:07:31 PM
Yeah, the CV will after it is sunk.  Maybe a different argument?  I would compare the CV to a field not an individual plane.

So you agree that a single guy should be able to sink a CV if he is willing to die a few times.

I'd like to see a single guy sink a CV that has manned 5".  Show me that first.   :rofl
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: The Fugitive on December 27, 2010, 02:08:20 PM
Maybe the 8000 lbs to sink the CV should only take out the fighters for 15 minutes. An additional 8k would be needed to sink it. Put the guns on 15 minute repair timers so they have to keep hitting them to keep it down. Make it so a group effort is needed to sink it much like a group effort is needed to capture a base.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: CptTrips on December 27, 2010, 02:08:53 PM
Two questions:

1.  What is the difference, in this context, between a CV and an airfield?  Are you willing to make the same argument for undestroyable ack for airfields too?  If not, why not?  Airfields can't even change course.  So surely that would be the next argument.  Its the thin end of an unappealing wedge.

2.  Why are threads like this showing up in the General Forum lately instead of the Wishlist Forum?

Regards,
Wab

Title: Re: CVs
Post by: vafiii on December 27, 2010, 02:13:50 PM
Every good CV fight ends prematurely with heavy bombers hitting the CV from 10K or above, thus ending a good fight. There's no way a B-17 can hit a moving, turning carrier from 10K. Why not leave carrier attacks to dive bombers and torpedo planes like in WWII? I also agree the CV should be able to withstand more damage.   
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: Zoney on December 27, 2010, 02:14:07 PM
So, you don't want 1 guy to be able to take out a CV but you want one guy to be able to defend it?

Get some friends then, if the CV dies go do something else.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: grizz441 on December 27, 2010, 02:14:47 PM
Make it so a group effort is needed to sink it much like a group effort is needed to capture a base.

It takes a group effort to destroy a defended CV, just like it takes a group effort to capture a defended airfield.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: oTRALFZo on December 27, 2010, 02:18:11 PM
Yeah, the CV will after it is sunk.  Maybe a different argument?  I would compare the CV to a field not an individual plane.

So you agree that a single guy should be able to sink a CV if he is willing to die a few times.

If you see how many guys run to feild ack, you would think that most players real lives were at stake. They die a million times, you get a million deaths, you print out your score and head over to the pub and use it as a pick up line  :eek:

Some dont care about K/Ds and those are the people that keep the game alive. Making the guns indestructable will then give that guy no reward for sacraficing his AH life so why would he want to up if the 5 incher is just going to keep plowing him?
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: waystin2 on December 27, 2010, 02:25:35 PM
I have only one problem with current CV setup and it is not it's ability to be killed.  That I consider a non-issue.  However, the ability to drive it so close to shore that it's puffy ack can reach onto or over a land base is just not right.  The distance that it has to stay from the shore still needs to be increased.  By the way Dedalos, this will cut down on the above described suicide dweebs as it would require longer and hopefully more dangerous flights to their intended CV target.

 :salute

Way
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: dedalos on December 27, 2010, 03:04:24 PM
It takes a group effort to destroy a defended CV, just like it takes a group effort to capture a defended airfield.

Grizz can aim a tater, therefore, he is an expert in every aspect of the game  :rofl  Listen to him.  The fact that it happened twice yesterday means nothing because I have to show it to him  :rofl
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: grizz441 on December 27, 2010, 03:06:10 PM
Grizz can aim a tater, therefore, he is an expert in every aspect of the game  :rofl  Listen to him.  The fact that it happened twice yesterday means nothing because I have to show it to him  :rofl

I don't believe you.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: dedalos on December 27, 2010, 03:07:37 PM
Two questions:

1.  What is the difference, in this context, between a CV and an airfield?  Are you willing to make the same argument for undestroyable ack for airfields too?  If not, why not?  Airfields can't even change course.  So surely that would be the next argument.  Its the thin end of an unappealing wedge.

Actually yes.  If not indestructible at list meaningful.  If the CV or field ack meant something to the incoming planes then yes.

Quote
2.  Why are threads like this showing up in the General Forum lately instead of the Wishlist Forum?


Does it really bother you that match?   :lol  
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: dedalos on December 27, 2010, 03:09:13 PM
I don't believe you.


Do you have film of not believing me?  :neener:
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: grizz441 on December 27, 2010, 03:10:52 PM
Do you have film of not believing me?  :neener:

 :D
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: Krusty on December 27, 2010, 03:13:05 PM
I just wish the fershlugginer CVs couldn't come within 50 miles of shore. No way in Hades would you find a war-time CV doing circles 1 mile off the shoreline of a base that's also positioned on the beachfront, where the 5" puffy ack can and does vulch planes.


If you're tired of losing the CV to bombers that suicide multiple times, don't park it offshore of an enemy field.

The CV regenerates so much points over so many minutes. The ONLY way that the same guy can up quickly enough and hit it again and again to sink it is if you're 20 seconds away from him taking off. Otherwise by the time he gets back to it, it has regenerated its hull damage.


I'd love it if you run a CV aground it would stop. Just stop. It would be beached and stay there until sunk. Or it explodes and puts the name of the person that did this to shame: "C47 was ran aground by dedalos" (for example)
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: CptTrips on December 27, 2010, 03:22:29 PM
Actually yes.  If not indestructible at list meaningful.  If the CV or field ack meant something to the incoming planes then yes.

Does it really bother you that match?   :lol  


Are you asserting that the ack for a CV group (CV + escorts) is signifigantly less effective than for an average airfield?  


Quote
If the CV or field ack meant something to the incoming planes then yes.

I'm not sure I'm parsing your response correctly.  Are you saying that field ack should be indestructable too?

Wab

Title: Re: CVs
Post by: dedalos on December 27, 2010, 03:29:00 PM

Are you asserting that the ack for a CV group (CV + escorts) is signifigantly less effective than for an average airfield? 

Wab



Did you read my post?  Yes, the CVs are defenseless against anyone that targets them.  A field on the other hand can be deakcked but it is not gone (respawn 100s of miles away).  Not to mention that flak defense that actually hurts planes is available.  It is still too easy to fly around the field ack but even easier to crash a set of B26s into a CV.

Once the 5" in the front of the CV are gone, it is almost impossible to do anything against sea level buffs.  The other big boat cannot aim that low head on.  It hits its own guns.  So really you need someone driving it to see the buffs coming head on and turn the CV while 1 or 2 gunners trying to bring them down  :lol



 
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: Dr_Death8 on December 27, 2010, 03:36:25 PM
Cvs are not defensless. I have lost count of the times I have flown in with a loaded P47, slowed down at 10-14K off the deck, rolled over, and within seconds of starting the dive, "BOOM", I am in the tower. Damn puffy ack!   :eek::salute
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: ImADot on December 27, 2010, 03:39:02 PM
Once the 5" in the front of the CV are gone, it is almost impossible to do anything against sea level buffs.  The other big boat cannot aim that low head on.  It hits its own guns.  So really you need someone driving it to see the buffs coming head on and turn the CV while 1 or 2 gunners trying to bring them down  :lol

Are you cracked?  You seriously think this?  "The other big boat..."  :lol  What about all the little boats with 5" guns?  Maybe I'm missing something not playing in the LW romper rooms...are all the CV task groups comprised only of a Carrier and Cruiser?

And from your original whine, I'm guessing you really do have an issue with losing a CV even if you're not online.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: CptTrips on December 27, 2010, 03:44:39 PM
Did you read my post?  Yes, the CVs are defenseless against anyone that targets them.  A field on the other hand can be deakcked but it is not gone (respawn 100s of miles away).  Not to mention that flak defense that actually hurts planes is available.  It is still too easy to fly around the field ack but even easier to crash a set of B26s into a CV.

Once the 5" in the front of the CV are gone, it is almost impossible to do anything against sea level buffs.  The other big boat cannot aim that low head on.  It hits its own guns.  So really you need someone driving it to see the buffs coming head on and turn the CV while 1 or 2 gunners trying to bring them down  :lol

CV are certainly not defensless.  I don't think they are anymore vunerable that an average airfield.  They have quite capable ack and are surrounded by escorts.  Unlike an airfield they can manuvuer and make life more difficult for highlevel bombers if anyone is awake.  They can change course and  extend from attacking airfields.  As far as low level bombers?  Can't the fighter cover handle those?  If not, I guess they get to swim home.  :)

I've seen airfield hangars taken out by low level bombers too.

Regards,
Wab
 
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: dedalos on December 27, 2010, 03:45:06 PM
Are you cracked?  You seriously think this?  "The other big boat..."  :lol  What about all the little boats with 5" guns?  Maybe I'm missing something not playing in the LW romper rooms...are all the CV task groups comprised only of a Carrier and Cruiser?

And from your original whine, I'm guessing you really do have an issue with losing a CV even if you're not online.

Yeah, you did miss something.  Look at your first post  :lol  Why are you so upset about my whine?  So in your opinion, it is ok to have a useless gun on the cruiser because some other boat may or may not be there?  

I am more curious to find out what exactly upset you so match about my post or why you think I care about a CV going down over night lol.  BTW, your name is missing an L
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: The Fugitive on December 27, 2010, 03:57:16 PM
Yes one guy can suicide an airfield multiple times and shut it down the same as the same guy doing it to a CV. The difference is that the airfield will be back up in 15 minutes if not captured, the CV on the other hand is out of the fight for hours sometime due to having to steam it back into position.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: ImADot on December 27, 2010, 04:06:29 PM
Yeah, you did miss something.  Look at your first post  :lol  Why are you so upset about my whine?  So in your opinion, it is ok to have a useless gun on the cruiser because some other boat may or may not be there?  

I am more curious to find out what exactly upset you so match about my post or why you think I care about a CV going down over night lol.  BTW, your name is missing an L

I re-read your original post, and mine.  I'm not sure how you thought I'm upset.  I merely pointed out that you felt the need to say "Not to mention that guys go out to sink them when no one is around", which to me sounded like you get upset when a CV goes down when the arena is less populated and people aren't around (or care) to defend.

Also, "Right now someone can pick you with the 5" 5K out if you are in a fighter, but if two sets of buffs come in from different angles you don't have enough time to react" kind of means there's more than one guy attacking the CV and you want to be able to shoot both groups by yourself from one set of guns?

None of your arguments make sense.  And the hinting that my name should be "ImADolt" is very unoriginal and shows what an immature individual you are.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: Shuffler on December 27, 2010, 04:14:28 PM
I have only one problem with current CV setup and it is not it's ability to be killed.  That I consider a non-issue.  However, the ability to drive it so close to shore that it's puffy ack can reach onto or over a land base is just not right.  The distance that it has to stay from the shore still needs to be increased.  By the way Dedalos, this will cut down on the above described suicide dweebs as it would require longer and hopefully more dangerous flights to their intended CV target.

 :salute

Way

I think that can be fixed more decisively by doubling the shore batteries.

The close in cv problem has been an issue for some time. I'm not sure how it is coded, but there always seems to be one base where it can get grass smudges on it.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: CptTrips on December 27, 2010, 04:15:29 PM
Yes one guy can suicide an airfield multiple times and shut it down the same as the same guy doing it to a CV. The difference is that the airfield will be back up in 15 minutes if not captured, the CV on the other hand is out of the fight for hours sometime due to having to steam it back into position.

Thats a more clear, and reasonable argument.  

I don't know if I agree that invulnerable or super ack is the answer.

Possibly tweaking rebuild time a bit.  However, as stated earlier, often the CV are "suicided" right up to the coastline near an enemy base.  I don't think that should be encouraged with invulerable super ack.

Wab



Title: Re: CVs
Post by: Ctrl on December 28, 2010, 01:36:23 AM
Two suggestions:

1)  Make their guns indestructible. The reason is that the dweeb dieing 10 times trying to kill a CV gets unlimited lives and tries.  The CV does not get unlimited gun "lives".  Therefore, after strafing a cv X number of times, it is rendered defenseless.  Once a single guy decides to target a CV, it is all over.  Lets even the playing field.  If they can keep upping new planes, let the CV keep its guns.

2)  Make the ack around CVs actually useful.  Right now someone can pick you with the 5" 5K out if you are in a fighter, but if two sets of buffs come in from different angles you don't have enough time to react.  The 40and 20mm guns are useless.  Low over the water buffs can get to the CV on time to drop a few times until its dead.  Who knows, it may actually allow the guys upping from it also get some alt before they die.

Since some of you that like the easy mode will come back with the if you don;t like it defend your CV, I ll answer it now.  You can't defend it for the above reasons.  Not to mention that guys go out to sink them when no one is around.  There is no way a single guy should be able to get close to a CV group.

The thing is, HTC is making the game as close to real life as possible. Which means changing how accurate something is would make it less realistic.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: grizz441 on December 28, 2010, 08:02:20 AM
The thing is, HTC is making the game as close to real life as possible.

(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/orly.jpg)
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: dedalos on December 28, 2010, 08:48:14 AM
The thing is, HTC is making the game as close to real life as possible. Which means changing how accurate something is would make it less realistic.

What I described is as far from real life as you could get.  The next is having the CV right by the field with the 5" shooting the runways.
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: klingan on December 28, 2010, 08:56:32 AM
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/orly.jpg)

 :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: BaldEagl on December 28, 2010, 09:12:45 AM
The 40and 20mm guns are useless. 

 :confused:  The twin 40's are very very deadly.  I often prefer them to the twin 5".
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: groundfeeder on December 28, 2010, 09:52:28 AM
I have only one problem with current CV setup and it is not it's ability to be killed.  That I consider a non-issue.  However, the ability to drive it so close to shore that it's puffy ack can reach onto or over a land base is just not right.  The distance that it has to stay from the shore still needs to be increased.  By the way Dedalos, this will cut down on the above described suicide dweebs as it would require longer and hopefully more dangerous flights to their intended CV target.

 :salute

Way

We have the choice to bring in the cv to cover the base, problem is the the cv can be hit quicker by the suicide dweebs faster. We could leave the cv further out to sea , but the furball dweebs, and porker dweebs dont want to fly that far, and the gunner dweebs wont have anything to shoot at from the 5". the wirbl dweebs will have to wait longer between porker dweeb runs. in the end ...just a bunch of unhappy dweebs.  :mad:
Title: Re: CVs
Post by: LCADolby on December 28, 2010, 05:54:03 PM
I've killed a CV with a single set of LANCs. If there is no gunner it's pretty easy, but if there is a gunner, all bets are off.