Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: lulu on January 02, 2011, 12:16:16 PM
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At the top of a barrel roll your plane is up side down and it points 90 degrees respect its initial trajecotory.
If You don't want to finish the barrel roll, then what can you do?
Discuss.
:salute
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At the top of a barrel roll your plane is up side down and it points 90 degrees respect its initial trajecotory.
If You don't want to finish the barrel roll, then what can you do?
Discuss.
Hi lulu
This is probably not the answer you were looking for, but given the information in your question it is the the simplest option. You stop barrel rolling by unloading the G, and you do that by centering your stick. If you don't want to remain inverted you could then roll the aircraft until you are flying straight and level at 1g.
Of course that ignores an important point... Why were you barrel rolling in the first place?
I suspect there may be an enemy aircraft in the picture somewhere, so for example....
If you were doing the barrel roll defensively and you are hoping that an approaching high speed bandit will overshoot, then timing your exit from the barrel roll so that you get a shot is critical, and it doesn't matter what stage of the roll you are at, or if you are inverted or not, the only thing that matters is lining up for the shot as the bandit overshoots. You do that by deliberately rolling around the bandit's anticipated flight path, and then unloading for the shot as he overshoots.
There are a number of other reasons you might be maneuvering in the way you described, but the catch is, you can't think about air combat without an enemy aircraft. That is where things get complicated, because the "what can you do?" part of your question then depends on three things... Geometry, Energy, and Time. The geometry part is simply the bandits position relative to you and you describe that using range, aspect angle, and angle off. Those are the way fighter pilots describe the position and orientation of an enemy aircraft relative to their own position. The energy part relates to the banits speed and altitude relative to you. You don't think in absolutes here, your perception needs to be relative, so that you know if the bandit is faster, or much faster, higher or much higher than you are and so on. The time part relates to the timing involved, basically do you have time to do what you want to do or not, and Boyd's OODA loop may be a factor here.
One of the reasons that you can open almost any thread on air combat and see many different responses to the same question, is that the conditions are rarely well defined, and many good responses can all be perfectly valid based on a wide variety of different conditions that were left to the assumption of the responders. To make it even worse, even if you state the initial conditions very clearly, pinning down the aircraft's positional geometry, and their energy states, you might still get 10 different answers from 5 different fighter pilots and all of them good.
Having said that, if you have something specific in mind that you want help with, you can help others to help you by providing as much information as you can.... Preferably a film of the event you want help with. If you need to paint the picture using words, use the following check list:
Geometry:
1) Bandits Range, how far away in yards as indicated by its icon?
2) Bandits position, what is the Bandit's aspect angle relative to you?
3) Bandits Orientation, what was the bandits angle off?
Energy:
1) How fast were you?
2) How fast was the bandit, slower, faster, much faster?
3) How high was the bandit relative to you, lower, higher and perhaps an estimate in feet?
Time:
1) What were the aircraft types involved, this will provide information about the relative performance such as turn rates and roll rates etc?
2) What other aircraft were nearby, what types and how far? Were you working with a wingman, or did the bandit have a wingman?
3) Your fuel and ammo status, were you bingo, winchester, or did you only recently take off with a full load of fuel.
You can probably see that the number of possible permutations arising from those factors could lead to a very large number of possible responses, so it pays to try and narrow it down as much as possible.
Hope that helps.
Badboy
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First, the nose is usually 45° off initial heading when the aircraft is inverted, not 90°.
To execute it correctly, pull back on the stick until the nose goes above the horizon, then add and hold left (or right) aileron. You'll have to work the amount of aileron to fly the maneuver smoothly. You may need some small rudder input in some planes.
(Edit: Badboy's post is more complete)
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TY guys, VERY MUCH.
Between the other possibilities, I had in mind to observe if somebody had explore this subsequent move doing a barrel roll - I tried off-line but I'm not completely sure about the result.
Let call A, the aircraft initial displacement and B it's final one during a barrel roll.
Between A and B there is a distance D.
If I guess, by the usage of some approach and rudder during a barrel roll, then D could be zero (level flight) - case in which the final part of B is overlapped with the imaginary continued part of A.
If You rolled on the left and You want D very little, then You will give right rudder pedal when the aircraft
will start to dive just after that it pasts over the top of the barrel roll.
If just after the top, You stop rolling and give right rudder pedal, then You came back so that B will be simple the opposite of A with a certain D. Right?
In other quickly words when at the top of a barrel roll, what to do to came back along a flight path parallel to the initial one or, in particular, equal one?
If You stop rolling just before the top and give full right pedal rudder, will You obtain the same result?
Generally i fly spits, p39, 47, 51 and f4ux - half fuel load.
Why I think about this?
Because i want to understand all the case in which using of rudder is a good thing, when and how.
:salute
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Lulu if you line up with a runway when you practice it's easy to see how using rudder affects your barrel rolls.
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Lulu if you line up with a runway when you practice it's easy to see how using rudder affects your barrel rolls.
Oh! That's a good idea. :salute
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"I tried off-line but I'm not completely sure about the result."
Sure, It coulb be a good idea. :lol
:salute
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lulu:
I misspoke in my post. In an aerobatic barrel roll, you pick a reference point that is 45° off of your heading (let's say to the left) and you "barrel roll" about that reference point. Your nose ends up 45° to the left of that reference point when you are inverted. The total is 90° off of your original heading. When you finish the barrel roll, your nose is 45° to the right of that reference point, thus on the same course as your original heading, but you are offset to the left.
Aerobatic maneuvers are flown with precision, but in air combat, they are rough and variable.
I apologize if I created any confusion.
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This is one of my favorite movies on barrel roll - expexially for the initial funny music!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gBxCShr1_g
:salute
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Because i want to understand all the case in which using of rudder is a good thing, when and how.
Let me tell you about rudder...
It is not to be used in any sort of energy efficient maneuvering except to keep the ball centered, which is to keep your nose directly facing your flight path to minimize drag. When there are times when you want to lose energy quickly you can go hard rudder and side slip, causing more drag. In a straight up barrel roll this will not help.
Let's say T is your travel path, which is to get you from map point A to point B.
The goal of the barrel roll is to make the time it takes to get from A to B as long as possible, forcing the other guy to get there first, and therefore be in front of your guns.
To do this you must be able to twist around T in the most efficient manner. If you were to try to just stop in mid air to get him to overshoot, this would be counter-productive because you would need more time and distance to recover flying speed; If you were to try slowing down your opponent would be able to turn through his spiral faster than you. You must remain at optimal turning efficiency to stay in the fight, so it's best not to use rudder when you're going for an efficient barrel roll.
Really hope that helps, one in the morning here and I'm half asleep.
<<S>>
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TY Mar
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Depends who has the most E if your fighting an enemy. If your low on E, and want to escape, split-s. If you have to much E, you can flair out and do more of a lag.
Rash