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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Tyrannis on January 03, 2011, 03:40:12 AM

Title: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Tyrannis on January 03, 2011, 03:40:12 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_lewd_navy_video

Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: uptown on January 03, 2011, 01:27:18 PM
There is a story on Liveleak today about the XO of the USS Enterprise, and the videos lampooning life aboard ship. I myself found nothing personally offensive about anything after watching it. But some might I guess. A small percentage aboard ship for sure.

 answer me this:


Is his conduct unbecoming to an officer?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=867_1294048142 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=867_1294048142)
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Slash27 on January 03, 2011, 01:42:33 PM
Foul language in the Navy?!?!?!?!?!? :eek:

The movement to remove spines and testicles is almost complete.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: CAP1 on January 03, 2011, 02:17:32 PM
only watching part of it.......but i fail to see how this affects his ability to command this carrier.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: AWwrgwy on January 03, 2011, 02:19:03 PM
I haven't seen the actual vids but from what I saw on the new it was about homophobia and misogyny but isn't that the norm in the military?

Should it be?  Is it really funny?


wrongway
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Dichotomy on January 03, 2011, 02:36:41 PM
Not really and I'm easy to amuse.  I don't think he should have any kind of retribution other than bad press just because somebody got their panties in a bunch. 
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: noTch on January 03, 2011, 03:01:10 PM
Always makes me nervous when "Navy" and "probe" are use in the same sentence   :uhoh :uhoh :uhoh
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: CAP1 on January 03, 2011, 03:04:07 PM
I haven't seen the actual vids but from what I saw on the new it was about homophobia and misogyny but isn't that the norm in the military?

Should it be?  Is it really funny?


wrongway

not even in the same universe as funny.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Gman on January 03, 2011, 04:20:38 PM
The guy seems like a real strange-o.  The more I watch him the more of a wierdo he becomes.  But the Navy has always been a little strange, aviators in particular.


What I'd like to hear is how his troops like him, and what they have to say about his ability to command.  Just because somebody gets his rocks off making strange videos for his crew, doesn't make him a bad Officer or leader, even if we think he's acting retarded.  If there were a pile of complaints about inappropirate actions during cruises, then ya, I'd say the video would make him look worse, but taken on it's own...not a big deal IMO.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Widewing on January 03, 2011, 04:49:51 PM
Two words...

Conduct unbecoming.

There are many ways to entertain the crew and build morale. This isn't one of the wiser ways. This guy will have to resign, and consider a new career.

As a former Naval Aircrewman, operating from carriers, I would have been horrified had these videos been shown on my ship.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Widewing on January 03, 2011, 04:53:44 PM
only watching part of it.......but i fail to see how this affects his ability to command this carrier.

I think it speaks to his judgment is general... Multi-billion dollar ship, and more than 5,000 lives depend upon this skipper's judgment, now called into question.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Widewing on January 03, 2011, 04:58:01 PM
There is a story on Liveleak today about the XO of the USS Enterprise, and the videos lampooning life aboard ship. I myself found nothing personally offensive about anything after watching it. But some might I guess. A small percentage aboard ship for sure.

 answer me this:


Is his conduct unbecoming to an officer?

There are certainly grounds for an Article 133 and/or Article 134 hearing....
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Dadsguns on January 03, 2011, 05:01:28 PM
The guy seems like a real strange-o.  The more I watch him the more of a wierdo he becomes.  But the Navy has always been a little strange, aviators in particular.


What I'd like to hear is how his troops like him, and what they have to say about his ability to command.  Just because somebody gets his rocks off making strange videos for his crew, doesn't make him a bad Officer or leader, even if we think he's acting retarded.  If there were a pile of complaints about inappropirate actions during cruises, then ya, I'd say the video would make him look worse, but taken on it's own...not a big deal IMO.

From what I understood on the radio report today was that he had not made a video for over a year until the crew had overwhelmingly requested he make another.  This would have been his last video according to his statement when he filmed it.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Tango on January 03, 2011, 06:09:53 PM
Foul language in the Navy?!?!?!?!?!? :eek:

The movement to remove spines and testicles is almost complete.

Its heading in that direction.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Melvin on January 03, 2011, 06:23:46 PM
This sweetheart-nozzle is running the Big E?


Lord help us.


Edit: We all know I didn't mean sweetheart. More like, F**K stick.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: mthrockmor on January 03, 2011, 06:28:13 PM
Not his best day but if we removed all officers who had offensive moments we would likely be speaking German right now. Stories from Tail Hook going back to the 1940's, the Air Forces Fighter Mafia are just as bad. The two differences between those days and these are the use of technology and the nancified nature of Americans today. We are very touchy feely.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Melvin on January 03, 2011, 06:29:19 PM
Not his best day but if we removed all officers who had offensive moments we would likely be speaking German right now. Stories from Tail Hook going back to the 1940's, the Air Forces Fighter Mafia are just as bad. The two differences between those days and these are the use of technology and the nancified nature of Americans today. We are very touchy feely.


This guy is un-funny, and obviously punches turds.


Edit: I'm sure that William "Bull" Halsey, Chester Nimitz and J.J "Jocko" Clark would have behaved in the same manner.

Or maybe not.

The difference between "Tailhook" and this is that "Tailhook" didn't occur onboard.

When a person in a command position is shown acting like a jack-ass while in command, it is bad for moral.

"The X.O. is a funny guy, let's see what we can get away with."

I, for one, never wanted my C.O. to be a comedian. I wanted him to wear his war face at ALL times. When the chips are down the men and women need to know that the people in charge are ALL BUSINESS.

As a taxpayer I want his immediate removal.

<S> Melvin

Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Dadsguns on January 03, 2011, 06:53:39 PM

As a taxpayer I want his immediate removal.

<S> Melvin

Taxpayer?  Does that make you my boss too if I am in the military?   :lol 
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Melvin on January 03, 2011, 06:58:42 PM
Taxpayer?  Does that make you my boss too if I am in the military?   :lol  

Only if you are in charge of multi-billions of dollars worth of equipment and thousands of American lives.

If your a regular Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine, then you are my boss.

As my life and safety is in your hands.

<S> Melvin

Edit: Freedom and family's lives as well.

Once you pass a certain pay grade, you relinquish the rights to foxhole humor.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Penguin on January 03, 2011, 07:03:24 PM
I agree, this is unbecoming of an officer- especially one so far up the chain of command.  If it were just sailor or pilot, sure it'd be hilarious, but for a man of his caliber it is conduct unbecoming of an officer, and a gentleman.

-Penguin
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: rpm on January 03, 2011, 10:22:01 PM
I'd say that was 85% not objectionable. The other 15% is gonna hang him.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Masherbrum on January 03, 2011, 10:53:05 PM
He's done like dinner.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: rogwar on January 04, 2011, 07:38:43 AM
They said this morning he is likely going to be removed.

I'll bet a lot of captains now will just say no videos.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: dentin on January 04, 2011, 10:35:26 AM
Its heading in that direction.

Yup, well said....and y'all can thank the pseudo-intellectuals for the mess this country is now in!  The guy should be judged on his "Military Prowess" rather than his sense of humor. 

Oh yeah, before I forget...whomever doesn't agree....well YOU own the problem, and need to grow a "set" :devil
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: TOMCAT21 on January 04, 2011, 11:25:52 AM
He is getting relieved of command. That was the last boat I was on prior to going into the Army.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: 68ZooM on January 04, 2011, 11:44:57 AM
it amazes me that a supposedly intelligent Naval Officer would video tape something of that nature and NOT expect it to leak out? stick a fork in the putz he's done
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 04, 2011, 12:56:04 PM
Not so fast.

Seems he is getting an awful lot of support from both his current and former crew. Including at least one female.
"A Facebook page supporting Honors had more than 6,000 followers this morning. And a female sailor who served on the Enterprise from 2007 until September also praised him.

Former Petty Officer Phillip Ciesla, who served on the Enterprise under Honors, said stripping the captain of his command would be an unfit punishment.

"I don't believe it's the right course of action," he said on CBS' "The Early Show." "He didn't do it out of malice or cruelty. He did it to entertain his crew and boost our morale."

He said the videos were taken out of context because they weren't made for the public. They were intended to humor the sailors, who work long hours, halfway around the world, for months at a time, he said.

"They were meant for the crew only," he sad. "For our entertainment, lighthearted laughter. None of it was ever meant to be taken seriously."



"Capt. Honors is a very professional person, but he knew when to have fun," Jessica Zabawa told The Associated Press by e-mail. "Capt. Honors knows when to be serious and when it's time to unwind."

Another former sailor, Pete Clarke, also said the videos were made for sailors and were something that civilians could not understand. He said relieving Honors of duty would be unfair.

He noted that at first, the Navy downplayed the videos, but then condemned them.

"Which Navy are we talking about?" Clarke, a family friend of Honors, said on NBC's "Today" show. "I think the political correctness at the Pentagon needs to be checked on this."

"It's a shame that videos from four years ago are going to affect a heroic person."


I concur. And had this come to light 4 years ago instead of today after the overturning of dont ask dont tell. I doubt this would have gotten as much press.
And considering these videos were made 4 years ago and are only now coming to light is a clear indication of just how little of a big deal was to the crew and how few people considered it offensive or worthy to complain about.. Particularly in this day and age where everyone seems to feel the need to have their butts kissed and the world bend over backwards for them because they find something offensive.


http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/04/uss-enterprise-capt-owen-honors-navy-video/

There is also an opinion piece worth reading that sums it up pretty good written by J.D. Gordon - a communications consultant to four Washington, D.C., think tanks and a retired Navy commander who served in the office of the secretary of defense as the Pentagon spokesman for the Western Hemisphere. He also served as a public affairs officer for the Atlantic Fleet during the 1993 Tailhook trial.


Now I havent been locked up on a ship for months on end but I do know that when running work crews on long and sometimes tedious jobs for long periods of time Keeping morale up is every bit as important as professionalism and sometimes you have to sacrifice a bit of one to achieve the other. And sometimes leadership itself needs to be the one to do something goofy just to break the tension and loosen things up because someone of lower rank or position simply wont have the same effect. Even Spit N polish blood and guts Patton himself knew that.

If as a commander or leader, Your tough as nails deadly serious all the time. You make yourself and everyone around, and under you miserable.

The fact that current and former crew are coming out to support him is telling in itself as to how good and fit a commander he is.

He will probobly get nailed for this. but only because at this year in this time. It will be politically correct for the Navy to do so.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on January 04, 2011, 07:13:04 PM
He's toast, the Navy is relieving him, effective immediately. Apparently the operating effectiveness of the USS Enterprise was not their primary concern.

Was it a brilliant thing to do? Of course not. Is it a career ender? It is now, although it probably should not be. There was a time in the military when doing your job well was far more important than being politically correct. There will soon be a time when Drill Instructors will be required to go to regularly scheduled sensitivity training.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 04, 2011, 08:52:22 PM
Havent read it yet but if true.
Gotta wonder how much of the navy's top brass really wanted to do this or were simply succumbing to  pressure from above.
Particularly in light of recent events in Washington
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: MORAY37 on January 05, 2011, 11:48:25 AM
Someone so far up the chain of command does not have the luxury of being a bratty fratboy. He ceased to be a wet-behind-the-ears 2nd Lt. a long time ago.  Pity a career ends over it, but that's the breaks when you act stupid.



Agreed on the Article 133/134.  Pretty much a dead fit for conduct unbecoming an officer.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Golfer on January 05, 2011, 03:50:05 PM
This happened 5 years ago and was dealt with then by the Navy.  Jacked up BS yellow journalism turning this into wrecking this guys Navy career.  By all accounts this guy was a good leader and his sailors liked serving with him.  Coward POS journalists like Wolf Blitzer smirking while they talk about the story should be thrown into a volcano.

I question why a copy that wasn't destroyed (supposedly they all were) over 5 years ago was sent.  Someone had a chip on their shoulder and THAT is the SOB that needs relieved of whatever command they have.  Not this then XO.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: guncrasher on January 06, 2011, 04:32:34 AM
golfer he wrecked his career with bad judgment.  He did the video to improve moral?  was it so low for him to try to be a comedian?  he showed bad judgment which is not really good for a co.


semp 
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Golfer on January 06, 2011, 07:47:59 AM
The incident was over and done with over 5 year ago and he since moved on to command. The situation was closed in the eyes of the Navy now years after the fact some love muffin with a grudge gets this to a news outlet who smears the guy and we all jump on the train to ruin him?   Yellow journalism.

He will be working for FedEx within a year and the Navy will have lost a very good skipper.
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: guncrasher on January 06, 2011, 01:25:12 PM
thing about being in the services, it's never over.  whatever you do will comeback to haunt you.


semp
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: 68ZooM on January 06, 2011, 05:15:05 PM
If this was handled 5 years ago by the Navy and was a done deal, why is the Navy making a example out of him now? probally to save Face in the Public's eye, so lets throw away someones career on a matter they dealt with years ago so we look good, I'm not blaming the Captain BUT man don't ever video tape anything that you don't want people to see, because in time it will be seen if there are any copies around, Just sad really because it was in the past, until someone with a grudge posted it
Title: Re: Is Enterprise XO done?
Post by: Serenity on January 06, 2011, 11:07:02 PM
golfer he wrecked his career with bad judgment.  He did the video to improve moral?  was it so low for him to try to be a comedian?  he showed bad judgment which is not really good for a co.


semp 

Got news for you. Just because morale isn't in the ****-er doesn't mean a few good activities now and then aren't a good measure.

Two things to keep in mind:

1) He was NOT the captain at the time, he was the XO.
2) This was dealt with at the time through NJP, and his behavior ceased.

As a Naval officer in training, this is the kind of thing we do case-studies on constantly. Our Lt likes to break up the monotony of what is essentially the Bluejackets Handbook verbatum with funny videos. We've had a couple that make fun of Marines, and accuse them of being brainless "modo-yuts". Guess who laughs the loudest at these? The Marine options and the Marine Corps. Major (A mustang at that). A sense of humor is well valued in leaders, IMHO. A CONSTANT lack of professionalism will kill men. The ability to lighten up when it's appropriate and entertain your personnel may well save lives. This man should NOT lose his career over videos which received wide-spread support from his men, especially when they also testified to his professionalism when the time came.

This is the media sticking it's ugly nose into areas it does NOT belong. Is this behavior expected of an XO? Not necessarily. Is it truly conduct unbecoming? I don't think so.

Our XO here is one of the funniest men I have ever met in my life. He always has a joke when he walks in the door and everyone loves hearing from him. And yet even the slightest hint that you've screwed up around him is enough to make a hardened soldier wet himself, because we all know this guy can get tough and get the job done. He laughs and jokes because it's appropriate, and if we all spent all day running from his shadow, we'd get nowhere. But it is still possible (and he manages it) to be the most professional, upright man around.