Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BiPoLaR on January 06, 2011, 12:58:24 AM
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Things may seem great in theory and on paper. But, once they are put to use, some of them just suck. And that's about how it is with the arena lock idea snail came up with. It was a well thought out idea, but its not all that great.
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oh boy.
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oh boy.
let em flame. i could give 2 flying squirrels butts less.
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Do you have another idea, BiPolar? It seems HTC can't win this argument with the community.
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I agree. Too many cooks ruin the stew. Let the people that own the business decide how it should be run.
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Do you have another idea, BiPolar? It seems HTC can't win this argument with the community.
That is what waffle. HT, skuzz pyro and the rest are for. I don't get paid for my ideas, they do.
Like I said. It seemed like a great idea in theory but, in reality it just isn't what it seemed.
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That is what waffle. HT, skuzz pyro and the rest are for. I don't get paid for my ideas, they do.
Like I said. It seemed like a great idea in theory but, in reality it just isn't what it seemed.
I suppose, but I always figure don't trash something unless you can do it better.
It can't be worse than it was before, can it?
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let em flame. i could give 2 flying squirrels butts less.
LOL. you are a great guy, bipolar. :aok
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I suppose, but I always figure don't trash something unless you can do it better.
It can't be worse than it was before, can it?
I don't get paid to do it better, they do.
I thank Snail for his time in the idea to make a situation better. But, it didn't.
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LOL. you are a great guy, bipolar. :aok
Off subject and hijack of my own thread.
Hows the ol ticker doing bud? Feeling any better?
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BiP,
I see that folks are adjusting to the changes. Making a simple observation, one might form an opinion that a specific change may cause problems.
Here is the LARGER PICTURE, there is more than just a daily switch between arenas that is in play. Sure, rebooting an arena when it is occupied has to rub feathers the wrong way. The flip side of the arena boot, is that it actually unites off hours players into a singular Late War arena. I believe that was the intent. Another addition that came along with the rolling arenas, has been the snapshot saved arena conditions. This I believe offers some sort of new sense of completing a daily mission. You might say that we now have a time clock to punch.
Too often in the "old" system, folks in the evenings or in the mornings could have made massive progress, only to find that when they log in next morning / evening they were back to scratch or often even worse off.
To further disagree with your premise that it is the new system that is faulty, I suggest that playing on the same map for more than 3 to 4 weeks, does not properly highlight AH2's potential. I have to either point out the difficulty in player based resets of maps, or the lack of timely forced resets, as the cause for any problems in keeping players engaged.
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Unfortunately, Chilli, all the off-hours players are on TWO of the three teams, fighting eachother, while one country is left to fly around in circles.
I flew probably 10 sectors to mix it up with the two other countries, but they only ran and ran and ran, until three decided to gangbang.
I'll agree with both sides of the argument.
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i think its better :old:
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Things may seem great in theory and on paper. But, once they are put to use, some of them just suck. And that's about how it is with the arena lock idea snail came up with. It was a well thought out idea, but its not all that great.
Oh? Why not? What, specifically, is wrong with it? Not trying to flame here, merely curious.
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Things may seem great in theory and on paper. But, once they are put to use, some of them just suck. And that's about how it is with the arena lock idea snail came up with. It was a well thought out idea, but its not all that great.
fantasy is very often very different than reality.
everyone wanted something changed. everyone kept whining about how things were. everyone kept throwing ideas(some good, some sucked). there were many many threads over it.
then lusche proposed his idea, and everyone went apepoop over it. they all liked it, and practically begged ht to try it. so ht tried it. now everyone's whinign about this.
it's like i said in a few other threads.........ht will never win. people will ALWAYS complain.
be careful what you wish for...you just may get it.
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i could give 2 flying squirrels butts less.
Then why whine?
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True about watch what you wish for. Change ain't always good. How did the last change you can believe in work out for you?
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True about watch what you wish for. Change ain't always good. How did the last change you can believe in work out for you?
hhhmmmmmm...........
change was promised. change wasn't what people assumed it would be. :noid :noid
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I like it more. Off hours arena means you get to fly with everyone. I do not care how often the arena gets reset. There are fights of all types all over the map. I have seen a few complain about the large map in blue and the small map in orange, they want them switched. That's easy enough, if you want to fly in a large map go blue, if you want small go orange, seems kinda simple. And is it just me or do most of the "best sticks" fly blue?
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I suppose, but I always figure don't trash something unless you can do it better.
It can't be worse than it was before, can it?
I think that is what he is trying to say lol
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i think its better :old:
I agree.
"To be honest" with me the glass is generally half full, but "lets face it" "you arn't going to please all of the people all of the time". I have learned that "the customer is always right" only when the customer is making the choice. In this instance it is clearly "roundabouts and swings". I am sure HTC's business hat is about creating the greatest happiness for the greatest number so maybe HTC could have more poles on what people liked better of the sort that have been presented on log in. eg
I feel the new arena set up is better than the old:
a) Strongly agree
b) Agree
c) Neutral
d) disagree
e) Strongly disagree
f) Wibble badaa badaa I am a chocolate tea pot.
I think Bip should come up with a better idea and if it is a really good one I am sure the good people at HTC will show their appreciation somehow.
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let em flame. i could give 2 flying squirrels butts less.
got you covered bro...
(http://www.accuratepestmanagement.com/flying-squirrel-1.jpg)
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got you covered bro...
(http://www.accuratepestmanagement.com/flying-squirrel-1.jpg)
Those... are... AWESOME! I want a squirrel that just flies around...
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Things may seem great in theory and on paper. But, once they are put to use, some of them just suck. And that's about how it is with the arena lock idea snail came up with. It was a well thought out idea, but its not all that great.
+1 Bip I strongly dislike the new setup
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The main negative to it is that it kills momentum. I'd like to see a stat showing the global population 10 minutes prior to boot/split and 10 minutes after and compare numbers to see what percentage of players quit once they get booted.
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+1 Bip I strongly dislike the new setup
You quit. no worries.
Oh? Why not? What, specifically, is wrong with it? Not trying to flame here, merely curious.
I'd like to see the answer to this also.
So far I've seen, "all the off-hours players are on TWO of the three teams" and "running", which have nothing to do with the off hours arena.
I'm sure it was more fun not playing because one arena was full and you couldn't get in and refused to go into the other arena because the cool kids weren't there.
wrongway
nibble
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The arena switch thingy is a forced break for me. One my highly addictive personality needs. I watch the clock, make sure I'm timing my last mission to end before the boot then I log for a bit, 30 min to an hour most times, do some chores, pet the wife ack, then come back in freshly rejuvinated. I am not really addicted, I can quit anytime as long as I can log back in, in 24 hours or less.
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The main negative to it is that it kills momentum. I'd like to see a stat showing the global population 10 minutes prior to boot/split and 10 minutes after and compare numbers to see what percentage of players quit once they get booted.
It kills momentum and activity much less than the old system.
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4075/newcomparison.jpg)
Under the old system, when caps kicked in Orange literally dried out, with many peeps simply sitting in tower to secure their spot. Depending on day, Blue took 2-4 hours(!) to get an acceptable population. Today, it takes no longer than 30 minutes. Personally I have no trouble finding a battle after about 15 minutes.
When the setup changes from peak to offpeak, things are different. It's true, we didn't have such a break before, and being booted from a running battle sucks. Unfortunately we do not have the numbers anymore to sustain a large, two arena setup during offpeak times. The arena reboot interrupts it for a short time, but having significantly less than 100 players on a large map for several totally kills it.
Many of the complaints I see are like "why should I suddenly take a spoon full of bitter medicine, when someone else can drink a whole cup of it?"
Oh and on the map rotation issue: It's mostly a result of not having the weekly reset anymore. Most resets on orange happened to be manually resets on TTuesday. Only blue was reset more frequently by won wars, but that was a direct result of having numbers so low that a single milkrunning squad could had a huge impact.
Overall it's working much better than I had expected, the abandonment of the weekly reset wasn't part of the idea at all ;)
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Guess HiTech needs to call BiPolar and arrange the arena resets around his personal schedual. Bi has always seemed very reasonable when he is happy........
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Why don't you do a graph on FUN, Lusche, the one thing that actually matters? All this talk of business and graphs of attendance mean Jack.
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The thing I don't precisely understand about switching from two arenas, to one, to two again, is why that is preferable to just removing the caps for the same timeframe as we have the single arena. People would gravitate to Orange for the most part, but the ones who want smaller fights and can't find them there would go to Blue. It would seem to me to result in pretty much the same thing, without killing the momentum of a fight in progress, and making the people who don't like single arena many people play an option. What am I missing?
I often fly through switchover time at 2 AM EST, and it really seems to me to be about right at that point. Numbers are starting to peter out, and we get lumped together into one arena right around the time I start to get sick of not being able to find a fight, which brings the numbers up to a better level.
Wiley.
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BiP,
I see that folks are adjusting to the changes. Making a simple observation, one might form an opinion that a specific change may cause problems.
Here is the LARGER PICTURE, there is more than just a daily switch between arenas that is in play. Sure, rebooting an arena when it is occupied has to rub feathers the wrong way. The flip side of the arena boot, is that it actually unites off hours players into a singular Late War arena. I believe that was the intent. Another addition that came along with the rolling arenas, has been the snapshot saved arena conditions. This I believe offers some sort of new sense of completing a daily mission. You might say that we now have a time clock to punch.
Too often in the "old" system, folks in the evenings or in the mornings could have made massive progress, only to find that when they log in next morning / evening they were back to scratch or often even worse off.
To further disagree with your premise that it is the new system that is faulty, I suggest that playing on the same map for more than 3 to 4 weeks, does not properly highlight AH2's potential. I have to either point out the difficulty in player based resets of maps, or the lack of timely forced resets, as the cause for any problems in keeping players engaged.
I do see your point.
The same map over and over is a bit tiresome. I think that may be what it is. Same map every single night. Its like a gaming nightmare gone worse.
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Why don't you do a graph on FUN, Lusche, the one thing that actually matters? All this talk of business and graphs of attendance mean Jack.
:aok
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Why don't you do a graph on FUN, Lusche, the one thing that actually matters? All this talk of business and graphs of attendance mean Jack.
It's only about fun. there isn't anything about business in it.
4 hours of one locked arena and one with a few players only is not much fun. One large map for 50 players only for several hours is not much fun. Downtimes in activity are not fun. Logging in and being able to find dynamic fights & battles is.
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The thing I don't precisely understand about switching from two arenas, to one, to two again, is why that is preferable to just removing the caps for the same timeframe as we have the single arena. People would gravitate to Orange for the most part, but the ones who want smaller fights and can't find them there would go to Blue. It would seem to me to result in pretty much the same thing, without killing the momentum of a fight in progress, and making the people who don't like single arena many people play an option. What am I missing?
You are basically asking to go back to the old setup, and you are missing two things.
The smaller one is that the samll map will be just as empty as the large one at offpeak. 50-80 players on a huge map like Ozkansas, and 5-10 on a small map like Ndisles. The situation on both maps is the same. Little actual combats. A town flashing here and there, quickly stopping when you up. Chasing single cons across the map.
The bigger one is when caps then kick in. We have the same situation as before: One "full" arena and a empty one, and this state lasting 2-4 hours.
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It's only about fun. there isn't anything about business in it.
Nope, you haven't seen the point. For every voice on these boards against this, there are 10 times that many voices in game. What would work far better than the constant threads on the subject would be a simple poll in game (using the same coding as the plane vote) "Are you enjoying the arena changes? Yes or No". There's a chart I'd like to see.
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Nope, you haven't seen the point. For every voice on these boards against this, there are 10 times that many voices in game. What would work far better than the constant threads on the subject would be a simple poll in game (using the same coding as the plane vote) "Are you enjoying the arena changes? Yes or No". There's a chart I'd like to see.
You would think it would show up in $. But of course, the person making the $ doesn't know what he is doing. :noid
I would think arenas with people in them versus one full arena and one with ten people would be a good thing.
The only "I don't like it" justification seems to be you have to stop playing for five minutes, switch arenas, and wait the additional five minutes to build momentum again. :cry
Why You Should NEVER Listen to Your Customers (http://blogmaverick.com/2010/04/06/why-you-should-never-listen-to-your-customers/)
wrongway
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To be fair about this discussion.
BiPolar what exactly is happening to you that impacts your fun? You have never realy provided details. Instead, Just your rancorious feelings as vitrol directed at HTC. Is your prime and only available time exactly when the switch over happens?.. :headscratch:
What do you want HTC to do with the arenas?
At least Lusch made an effort to provide substinative data that made sense to HiTech and Pyro in their effort to keep the Euro players in the game. Lusch didn't expect them to provide customer service via clarvoyence and his ongoing assertions the game wasn't fun anymore.
Its not your job to know how to fix this game. But, customer service is never a one way street. Being specific helps the support tech to get you up and running faster than yelling at him "it's broke, you suck, fix it and screw yourself".......
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The bigger one is when caps then kick in. We have the same situation as before: One "full" arena and a empty one, and this state lasting 2-4 hours.
Ah, I just realized what I hadn't described. What if we did it that way, and when the caps kicked in, they booted everyone to relog to redistribute it? Same thing as now, somewhat less loss of momentum on the maps, it would seem to me, people who don't want single large arena play aren't locked into it during off hours.
Wiley.
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Ah, I just realized what I hadn't described. What if we did it that way, and when the caps kicked in, they booted everyone to relog to redistribute it?
Hmm you mean keeping the map in orange all the time, and just boot everyone & enable caps, so that a part of the players will have to go to blue?
If so... I was initially thinking the same way. The problem is just that in that case everyone absolutely wants to get back to the map in orange to finish the battle that's just been non. Some players will make it some won't. I'm afraid the complaints would be far more greater than they are now.
(And actually there are quite few complaints for a change as big as this one, I had expected a lot more of them not as much "I like it" comments). But it's not my judgement anyway what makes any decision in AH. I just made one suggestion that happened fit into what HT himself was looking for already.
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I propose that we change all times zones to match CST. Fixed.
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Hmm you mean keeping the map in orange all the time, and just boot everyone & enable caps, so that a part of the players will have to go to blue?
If so... I was initially thinking the same way. The problem is just that in that case everyone absolutely wants to get back to the map in orange to finish the battle that's just been non. Some players will make it some won't. I'm afraid the complaints would be far more greater than they are now.
(And actually there are quite few complaints for a change as big as this one, I had expected a lot more of them not as much "I like it" comments). But it's not my judgement anyway what makes any decision in AH. I just made one suggestion that happened fit into what HT himself was looking for already.
Right. I think you're probably right about (relatively) reducing frustration at boot time. It puts everyone in the same boat, instead of having the so-called 'lucky ones' that got back into Orange and those who are 'forced' to go to Blue. I was just thinking of the guys that aren't fond of single arena gameplay, giving them an option during off hours.
I'd still be really curious to see if the game would degenerate if they just kept 2 arenas, but removed the caps period. It would give those who loathe single arenas an option, but it would wind up with the vast majority in Orange. I think it's possible that the majority player mentality is more comfortable with larger arena numbers now than it was when caps were first introduced.
However, it's not exactly the kind of thing I'd gamble on if my livelihood depended on it. <g>
SunBat is still a bloody genius. I'd be good with that.
Wiley.
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The current solution seems equitable after experiencing it several times from california P.M. time. It was late enough that most players were setteled into one small furball, milkruns and scattered GV attempts at taking undefended bases and milkruns. It was no different than getting caught by X-Side just won the war map reset in 4.
Who is being inconveinienced the most by the switch over then? Which side of the switch over is doing the inconveiniencing?
Maybe throw in 25 perks to the players on the map that have to jump arenas. It's late enough at night and the numbers are low.
Give BiPolar God Mode powers once a month because he's unhappy........ :D
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its when the off hours kicks in that pisses me off, im on the west coast and there always good fights going around 9pm to 11pm, THEN Arena's locking 5 mins message comes up, i just log at that time, i dont play in the afternoon no more because everytime i do have time to fly, it's always right around the time the off hours goes into lock and 2 LW arena's get started, we all try to make time to play this game but when those times are always inbetween the Arena's locking and opening it get frustrating trying to have fun, when you start having fun guess what, go to another arena please this one's closed now, i liked it better before
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You would think it would show up in $. But of course, the person making the $ doesn't know what he is doing. :noid
I wouldn't actually. There are plenty of folks here who continue to subscribe and play despite their dislike of the system. To paraphrase my original point; Don't measure the profit margin or the arena numbers, measure the fun. Do that and you're halfway to fixing a problem and understanding why we show up in the first place.
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The answer to caps can be found here.
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/imagesCAKPBN2D.jpg)
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The answer to caps can be found here.
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/imagesCAKPBN2D.jpg)
caps dont bother me anymore. Its the same old played out map over and over and over and over and over.
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SunBat is still a bloody genius.
Thanks for further supplementing my sig. :D
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caps dont bother me anymore. Its the same old played out map over and over and over and over and over and over.
Fixed.
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Fixed.
Thanks bat. Can always count on you over and over and over and over again :aok
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caps dont bother me anymore. Its the same old played out map over and over and over and over and over to infinity and BEYOND.
there double fixed..TIRED OF the same MAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And the STAGNANT FRONTS uggg...
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caps dont bother me anymore. Its the same old played out map over and over and over and over and over.
there double fixed..TIRED OF the same MAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And the STAGNANT FRONTS uggg...
Join a hord. Win teh warz!!1!
Or, would you prefer a map with three fields where you know somebody will be there to fight?
It all looks the same from the air.
wrongway
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Nope, you haven't seen the point. For every voice on these boards against this, there are 10 times that many voices in game. What would work far better than the constant threads on the subject would be a simple poll in game (using the same coding as the plane vote) "Are you enjoying the arena changes? Yes or No". There's a chart I'd like to see.
Like the idea. Maybe also "would you guys like for us to make a new map?"
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/dazamlwch/snail.gif)
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Join a hord. Win teh warz!!1!
Or, would you prefer a map with three fields where you know somebody will be there to fight?
It all looks the same from the air.
wrongway
AKAK III trolling right here. :rolleyes:
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Join a hord. Win teh warz!!1!
Or, would you prefer a map with three fields where you know somebody will be there to fight?
It all looks the same from the air.
I get my good fights in the DA and my clubbing in the MA. The only times I've actively sought out "fair fights" in the MA, I've been gravely disappointed. Even when I get them, they are hardly ever fair, as the likelihood that I am up against a scrub noob is 99%.
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I don't mind the set up as it is now :neener:
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You are basically asking to go back to the old setup, and you are missing two things.
The smaller one is that the samll map will be just as empty as the large one at offpeak. 50-80 players on a huge map like Ozkansas, and 5-10 on a small map like Ndisles. The situation on both maps is the same. Little actual combats. A town flashing here and there, quickly stopping when you up. Chasing single cons across the map.
The bigger one is when caps then kick in. We have the same situation as before: One "full" arena and a empty one, and this state lasting 2-4 hours.
I say we go back to the way it was prior to the arena split. One main arena and a backup on a medium to large map.
Parker
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I like this new system, but I agree the map choices/selections need to be worked out still. I'm always finding a fight now after BiP passes out drunk for the night infront of his computer, though some maps are too big.
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I like this new system, but I agree the map choices/selections need to be worked out still. I'm always finding a fight now after BiP passes out drunk for the night infront of his computer, though some maps are too big.
I done that once. No lie. Woke up with my forehead planted in an ash tray. The odd thing is, I don't know where the ash tray came from. I don't smoke in my house. And I was home alone that night. :noid