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Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: DH367th on January 08, 2011, 04:47:44 PM

Title: Come on man
Post by: DH367th on January 08, 2011, 04:47:44 PM
Really after the beating anyone in yak 9t took and you guys leave it status quo for frame2 ???? bravo bravo  :uhoh  :uhoh
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: TUK on January 08, 2011, 05:09:55 PM
Yep, looks like the same set-up..  There will be 24 more unhappy Yak9t pilots.  :uhoh
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Muzzy on January 08, 2011, 09:49:10 PM
It's the 9T that's the rock around our necks, literally.  It can't catch German fighters without altitude, and even if it could, getting the shot with the 37mm is a problem.  I'd be reasonably happy flying the U against most 109's and early model FW's.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: kilo2 on January 08, 2011, 09:59:51 PM
Welcome to axis pilots world in Japan scenarios with A6m5bs going up against ponys and what not.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Muzzy on January 08, 2011, 10:05:59 PM
At least in the zeke you've got the turning ability to duck out of the way.

By the way, historically speaking didn't the Russians at least have the advantage in numbers?  A flight of five Yak's getting jumped by a dozen or more 109's, Fw's and 262's doesn't seem all that realistic in a late war scenario. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Big Rat on January 08, 2011, 10:51:14 PM
At least in the zeke you've got the turning ability to duck out of the way.

By the way, historically speaking didn't the Russians at least have the advantage in numbers?  A flight of five Yak's getting jumped by a dozen or more 109's, Fw's and 262's doesn't seem all that realistic in a late war scenario. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If we'd make it realistic, it would be a Russian Horde mission.  The idea is to give both sides a chance to win.  Unfortunately sometimes the plane sets just don't match up all that great.  Overall they may be close but you may have the best of one side running into the worst of the other. G14's running into yak 9T's for example.  If the 9t's ran into A8 or F8's low alt, it wouldn't be so bad.

 :salute
BigRat
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: perdue3 on January 09, 2011, 12:05:54 AM
Welcome to our (Axis) world in EVERY campaign except Eastern Front.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Spikes on January 09, 2011, 12:14:57 AM
At least in the zeke you've got the turning ability to duck out of the way.

By the way, historically speaking didn't the Russians at least have the advantage in numbers?  A flight of five Yak's getting jumped by a dozen or more 109's, Fw's and 262's doesn't seem all that realistic in a late war scenario. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes...I recall one scenario where A6M's were tasked to kill B17G's at 25 or 30K. The A6Ms couldn't catch the 17s. At all.

God forbid the Allies don't have an advantage. It's like in FSOs the allies must win or there is some complaining going on. I remember one FSO where it got so bad that I was accused of crossing a no fly line in a jet that was put in for some dumb reason after Frame 1. And frankly I wasn't effective at all but I guess that's all there was to complain about.

Funny thing is even in half of these Japanese scenarios the axis still win.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: daddog on January 09, 2011, 11:11:48 AM
If the Admin CM's changed a design every time they had 3 or 4 complaints they would have to re-write it every Frame. Silly, and I will not have them do it. So blame me.

Often the outcome is circumstances and timing. BigRat said it nicely, and some of us said as much in the CM forum.
Quote
Overall they may be close but you may have the best of one side running into the worst of the other.
Granted the YakT can't hang with much in this setup, but we have the Val VS P40's or P38G's and a dozen other possible lopsided encounters.

If you want every encounter to be fair and reasonable then buy a box game and pick your mission. CM's do the best they can with out choreographing every mission.

Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Frodo on January 09, 2011, 02:04:44 PM
If the Admin CM's changed a design every time they had 3 or 4 complaints they would have to re-write it every Frame. Silly, and I will not have them do it. So blame me.

Often the outcome is circumstances and timing. BigRat said it nicely, and some of us said as much in the CM forum.Granted the YakT can't hang with much in this setup, but we have the Val VS P40's or P38G's and a dozen other possible lopsided encounters.

If you want every encounter to be fair and reasonable then buy a box game and pick your mission. CM's do the best they can with out choreographing every mission.


:aok
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: SpiveyCH on January 09, 2011, 03:08:42 PM
     C-Hawks had 9 pilots in Yak-9T's.  I found it a very fun challenge as we engaged 190D-9's, a few 109's, 2 262's, and some 234's.  I had many shot's but, as I always do in FSO, got excited when the fight starts.  Been playing AH for 10 years and I still can't control that excitement.  The first shot I had was on a 262.  I pushed down to avoid his boom and popped back up as he was going by.  See him 200 out just to the right of my sight.  Then the rush as I line him up, I could not aim straight in those few seconds and missed.   :x :x :x 
     We landed 4 pilots and took 3 NME with us.  This is what made my night:
JazzCH
22:10:01 Departed from Field #88 in a Yak-9T
22:38:42 Shot down a Me 262A-1 flown by RDRTrash.
23:03:10 Takes on fuel/ammo/ord at field #88.
23:33:58 Arrived Safely at Field #88

WTG Jazz!! Had a blast, looking forward to next Fri.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: saltee on January 09, 2011, 03:45:55 PM
Amen Kilo, Spikes and Perdue!

While the Allies won the war, this doesn't mean that they had to win every battle.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: thorsim on January 11, 2011, 01:36:08 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: daddog on January 11, 2011, 09:25:38 PM
I have damaged some 262's in FSO, but after all these years I don't think I ever shot one down.  Congrats! :cheers:
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: thorsim on January 12, 2011, 12:04:54 PM
See Rule #4

well ...

let me take a different approach here ...

first off WTFG CMs for not adjusting the event due to complaints ...

secondly, it is a shame that a large segment of the community will not participate in an event because they feel overburdened.
refusal to recognize that every side had time on the downside of battles and therefore that each side/squad/player must be willing to fight at a disadvantage from time to time, sometimes at what could be a extreme disadvantage in one way or another.  

the event designers clearly try for balance, and it is a shame that sometimes they are unable to present the events they want to put on because of a somewhat selfish POV of some members of the event community.  there are those players/squads who regularly either refuse to see the balancing aspects of an event or refuse to fly on the more burdened side of an event, which causes the numbers to be out of designed balance, and that causes the event to be adjusted or just overly unpleasant for one side or the other.  

IMO the above is even more discouraging when it is regular players/squads of the historic country/side that needs numbers who refuse to play for "their historic side" because they perceive a disadvantage they don't want to deal with, and that IMO is as lame as anything that goes on in online gaming.

t  
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: shiv on January 12, 2011, 12:15:44 PM
well ...

let me take a different approach here ...

first off WTFG CMs for not adjusting the event due to complaints ...

secondly, it is a shame that a large segment of the community will not participate in an event because they feel overburdened.
refusal to recognize that every side had time on the downside of battles and therefore that each side/squad/player must be willing to fight at a disadvantage from time to time, sometimes at what could be a extreme disadvantage in one way or another.  

the event designers clearly try for balance, and it is a shame that sometimes they are unable to present the events they want to put on because of a somewhat selfish POV of some members of the event community.  there are those players/squads who regularly either refuse to see the balancing aspects of an event or refuse to fly on the more burdened side of an event, which causes the numbers to be out of designed balance, and that causes the event to be adjusted or just overly unpleasant for one side or the other.  

IMO the above is even more discouraging when it is regular players/squads of the historic country/side that needs numbers who refuse to play for "their historic side" because they perceive a disadvantage they don't want to deal with, and that IMO is as lame as anything that goes on in online gaming.

t  

^^^^ says the 262 in frame 1  :)


But Thorsim's right, you gotta suck it up and deal with it.  What goes around come around.  Part of the fun of FSO is playing the cards you're dealt, and sometime you get 7-2 unsuited.  Or a P40B.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Zoney on January 12, 2011, 01:09:06 PM
Not that we are voting, but I would want the historic battles over the "adjusted" battles myself.  For me, the FSO is totally about immersion.  You know, "the 60 minutes of boredom followed by 60 seconds of panic" thingy.

Just stating an opinion gents, but I would much rather be on the low side, get our butts kicked and know a little more about how "they" felt.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: DaCoon on January 12, 2011, 02:07:49 PM
You know, "the 60 minutes of boredom followed by 60 seconds of panic" thingy.


This is exactly how it was explained to me. And this is why I LOVE flying FSO.   :salute to friend and foe alike.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Delirium on January 12, 2011, 02:27:19 PM
^^^^ says the 262 in frame 1  :)

I hope he was doing recon, he flew for 2 hours and didn't score a single kill, even after hot padding halfway through.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: thorsim on January 12, 2011, 04:19:50 PM
I hope he was doing recon, he flew for 2 hours and didn't score a single kill, even after hot padding halfway through.

my mission was to disrupt and disturb certain defenders of certain targets and not loose my 262 ...

my gunnery was however unfortunate for some reason friday night ...

however i did induce the soiling of several pairs of VVS panties ...

^^^^ says the 262 in frame 1  :)

i/we have flown my/our share of dogs in events as well, and i don't think i/we have publicly griped about a single one,
however we may feel about the assignment we do our best to carry out the mission.

that you will find is how it was in TRW, and how it should be in the events. 

++S++

t



Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Becinhu on January 12, 2011, 07:45:10 PM
I feel for the Allied flyers this frame. Seems that every PTO setup where I fly Axis I get jumped by a 3X superior force in my highly flammable rice burner.  Sometimes you are the gun...sometimes the target.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: ROC on January 13, 2011, 01:14:14 AM
Zoney, although I fully understand your desire for the historical part, there has to be some balance in place.  We already know the historical outcome.  We know what matchup won and lost.  It is impractical to design an event that recreates the historical battles that took place.  That's television, the history channel shows the reenactments.   The events need to create an event where both sides have the opportunity to win or lose based on their efforts, not a pre-determined outcome.  You honestly want us to design events that have a pre-determined loser built into the event? 

That is what the FSO, Scenarios and Snapshots try to offer.   You cannot have the 60 minutes of boredom followed by 60 seconds of panic if you know the outcome.  We have taken the "known" out of the equation, and truly offered you the panic.  You have no idea what's going to happen. There is no re-enactment, it is truly up to the players to pull something off.

Please understand, this is not a dismissal of your point of view Zoney, your desire is paramount in many of the event designs, that's why we take the "known" element away.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Zoney on January 13, 2011, 09:44:24 AM
Zoney, although I fully understand your desire for the historical part, there has to be some balance in place.  We already know the historical outcome.  We know what matchup won and lost.  It is impractical to design an event that recreates the historical battles that took place.  That's television, the history channel shows the reenactments.   The events need to create an event where both sides have the opportunity to win or lose based on their efforts, not a pre-determined outcome.  You honestly want us to design events that have a pre-determined loser built into the event?   That is what the FSO, Scenarios and Snapshots try to offer.   You cannot have the 60 minutes of boredom followed by 60 seconds of panic if you know the outcome.  We have taken the "known" out of the equation, and truly offered you the panic.  You have no idea what's going to happen. There is no re-enactment, it is truly up to the players to pull something off.

Please understand, this is not a dismissal of your point of view Zoney, your desire is paramount in many of the event designs, that's why we take the "known" element away.

<S> Thank you for your measured and civil response sir.  No I do not want what I have highlighted in red.  As you stated in your last line, I only wanted to air my opinion.  Part of my"fantasy" is imagining being on the historically marginalized side and overcoming overwhelming odds, not that I have the skills to pull it off.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: daddog on January 13, 2011, 10:06:40 AM
Quote
however i did induce the soiling of several pairs of VVS panties ...
:aok LOL in my years I think I flew a 262 twice in FSO and that is about all I managed to do. :)
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Easyscor on January 13, 2011, 04:55:29 PM
well ...

let me take a different approach here ...

first off WTFG CMs for not adjusting the event due to complaints ...

secondly, it is a shame that a large segment of the community will not participate in an event because they feel overburdened.
refusal to recognize that every side had time on the downside of battles and therefore that each side/squad/player must be willing to fight at a disadvantage from time to time, sometimes at what could be a extreme disadvantage in one way or another. 

the event designers clearly try for balance, and it is a shame that sometimes they are unable to present the events they want to put on because of a somewhat selfish POV of some members of the event community.  there are those players/squads who regularly either refuse to see the balancing aspects of an event or refuse to fly on the more burdened side of an event, which causes the numbers to be out of designed balance, and that causes the event to be adjusted or just overly unpleasant for one side or the other. 

IMO the above is even more discouraging when it is regular players/squads of the historic country/side that needs numbers who refuse to play for "their historic side" because they perceive a disadvantage they don't want to deal with, and that IMO is as lame as anything that goes on in online gaming.



What you're suggesting isn't allow to happen. I can say that the FSO team monitors squad participation very closely and in the few cases where there's the slightest hint of misbehavior, they initiate action. That you never hear about it speaks to the professional manner in which the team operates.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: thorsim on January 13, 2011, 06:43:35 PM
first, to be clear i wasn't speaking specifically of the FSO but rather of a segment of the VAC event community ...

the FSO/s3 fortunately have squad pride to offset the "gottawins" tendency to gravitate to the advantaged side,
in those events the consequence of the attitude problem i describe is usually relegated to griping and bad attitudes however well controlled. 

where that is not the case events can often suffer from the reluctance of far too many to take the hard road in an event.  that is where in the problem really lies. 

personally i sort of like the challenge of close to historic events and being on the historically defeated side. 
that gives me the opportunity to see if with the advantage of historic hindsight and extensive
event "battle expertise" whether or not i can turn the tables on the historic outcome. 

i guess i am scolding some players and hoping that this conversation will result in a sort of a "gut check" the next time anyone is tempted to choose an event side based on the privilege of flying the top ride or some other advantage of an event.  that approach if taken by too many just makes it way to difficult to put on many of the events that history begs us to explore, and that is a shame.

t
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: TUK on January 13, 2011, 07:01:55 PM
You write well.  :salute
  The no capps is just kiling my eyes though. :old:
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Vulcan on January 13, 2011, 08:07:31 PM
I'd rather a Yak 9T than a 190F8 tbh.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: AKKuya on January 13, 2011, 08:16:44 PM
In the 3 years of my playing this game and partcipating in the Special Events, I have come to the conclusion of this.
For those who like to look up information and have an anaylytical number cruching ability can add to this post.

The Game

1) We, the Aces High players, have absorbed the fundamentals of all the strengths and weaknesses of all the available aircraft and vehicles in the inventory.
2) We, the Aces High players, have spent individually thousands of hours in learning the strengths and weaknesses of said aircraft and vehicles.
3) We, the Aces High players, have the luxury of being given the ultimate do-over in the MA's to learn our mistakes in said aircraft and vehicles all from our safe armchair cartoon pilot world.

Real Life WW2

1) Every pilot received one life.
2) Every pilot received a small amount of training in their assigned aircraft.
3) Every pilot received a sink or swim initiation to combat.


In every FSO setup, we receive planesets available from HTC.  Every warbird used in this game was a lethal aircraft in real life.  However, some aircraft have far more supieror capabilities than others.  That doesn't mean that the supieror aircraft will demolish the lesser.

That's where the wildcard factor comes in.  The pilot.  The pilot with superb SA and knowledge of his energy can defeat the supieror aircraft flown by a less experienced pilot.  Or, 8 high performane planes running into 15 less performance planes can create an upset.

What becomes the true deciding factor.  The CIC.  The CIC can make or break any engagement either as a whole or in a smaller engagement area.  In FSO, there are two CIC's.  Two deciding factors that can make an even fight or a lopsided event through unlucky circumstances or bad planning one one's part.

Don't blame the CM's for the planesets.  They volunteer their time to create these events.  It's up to each participating player to READ the setup information on the Special Events website.

Don't blame the CIC's.  They volunteer their time to help organize these events.  This is a game and not every CIC up to bat has the desire to learn every facet of each aircraft in the planeset beyond their personal experience.  It's up to each participating player to learn each aircraft in the MA's and not just limited to Late War Arena commonly used aircraft.  

Who's to blame?  Either nobody or everybody.  

Complaining about trivial matters doesn't help anything.  If any player thinks they can do better, then volunteer to become a CM. Or, let your squad CO know that you would like to volunteer to be CIC when your squad is next in line.

This my opinion based on experience from the last 3 years.  Many will agree, many will disagree, and the vast majority will not care one bit by being silent.  Democracy at it's finiest. :salute
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Bino on January 13, 2011, 09:11:08 PM
Bravo, AKKuya!  Well said, sir!   :salute
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Fencer51 on January 13, 2011, 09:41:33 PM
Someone sticky that post.
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Dichotomy on January 14, 2011, 09:31:16 AM
Indeed Akkuya.. I 100% agree with you. 
Title: Re: Come on man
Post by: Bannor on January 21, 2011, 02:22:42 PM
 :aok :salute