Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Changeup on January 13, 2011, 08:32:50 PM
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I have been reading a lot lately about perked planes, this plane vs that plane etc etc and what you guys are typing is a treasure trove of performance issues, good and bad, for these planes. What I'm beginning to discover is that some players report specific tendencies by specific aircraft when others do not report that performance issue at all. Is there a chance that each aircraft may perform differently due to the type of joystick you use? The more sensitive the contacts in the joystick, the more it might respond crappy in specific aircraft at low speeds or whatever...it makes sense.
Thoughts? :salute
Changeup
Pyro, HiTech, or Skuzzy, feel free to comment...lol
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Actually it's a good question, sense different controllers have different sensitivities due to the different parts that manufactures use, kinda waiting for some responces :) is there some kind of industry standard that the Min/Max deadbands are set at ?
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I can say that after having modified my x52 Pro as a center stick for my Simpit that moding a stick can make a big difference. I have found that I now have significantly better control with 190's and other planes that I thought were "twitchy". On the other hand the easy planes like the Spits, I find I'm having some difficulty getting used to how fast and far I have to move the stick in tight turn fights.
So if the scaling is constant, then I can see how there could be a difference between HOTAS, CH, Saitek, and Logitech sticks given the dimensions are different.
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I have wondered about something similar to this as in,, settings and why some planes preform better with different stick settings than others but it could also have plenty to do with the stick itself!
I have flown enough to know that with my scale settings one way ,I fly certain planes well and others, that I used to fly well do not handle nearly as good with the new settings, I thought about making profiles for each plane, say a screen shot of each setup and the planes it serves best, then print them off and have them as handy reference material for such things as FSO or racing, I use the saitek x52 pro and pedals, if anyone thinks this is something that would be of interest we could start a thread and post your scale settings for each plane so as to compare notes and share info!
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buy a cheap stick and you wont have to wonder about it :)
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I think it was Fester that had flown for ever with a Microsoft stick. It finally crapped out and he reluctantly switched to CH Products. Now Fester is a pretty darn good stick and he was hoping the CH stuff wouldn't hurt him much until he got use to the new stuff. Well he was blown away with how smooth the CH stuff was. He just kept going on and on oand on about how it was smooth and it was unbelievable and so on...really got pretty annoying for a while :D
Well that how I remember it. I always had CH stuff for Aces High so I have no personal comparisons to share.
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I still use Microsoft.
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Ive been using the Logitech Xtreme 3D Pro knowing it was crap. I travel for biz and carry it through security (yes, Im addicted) and I have fought knowing I would eventually end up in a CH or Thrustmaster. I can't pack them though and dont want to learn two stick systems and the Logitech is cheap so I own about 9 of them! I have bugged SKuzzy to death for two years about scaling and it does work...but its funny that my issues with certain planes aren't someone elses. Bentnail gave me some scaling settings about 2 years ago and it was awesome for about 8 months. Pre-the-last-major-graphics update it just stopped being smooth even with those scaling settings so I just started wondering. Also, Krup, Dodger, Madda and others have hand-walked me through certain manuevers in the DA and I can't get the aircraft to do most of them.
Changeup
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I can say that after having modified my x52 Pro as a center stick for my Simpit that moding a stick can make a big difference. I have found that I now have significantly better control with 190's and other planes that I thought were "twitchy". On the other hand the easy planes like the Spits, I find I'm having some difficulty getting used to how fast and far I have to move the stick in tight turn fights.
So if the scaling is constant, then I can see how there could be a difference between HOTAS, CH, Saitek, and Logitech sticks given the dimensions are different.
difference that you noticed between the 190 and the spit, is that in the 190 you make long slow turns to keep your speed up, since you most likely dont want to get into a turn fight. where the spit is a turn fighter requiring more joystick input.
semp
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I still use Microsoft.
Yea, and you kicked my butt with it the other night. :furious
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I think the equipment you use does have an effect...but it also comes down to time I believe also
When I started I was using a 3D pro which I thought was ok...Then I moved on to a X52 and rudder pedals...and this took me time to adjust to....over the last couple of tours I have had to revert to using my 3Dpro again as my X52 stick decided that it had enough of working....This has proven to be horrible and found that I just couldn't hang in a fight anymore...stalling out due to my movements being too big...the saitek seems to have more of a slack where as the 3D pro is movement from any touch which makes it very bouncy...if I spent the time I'm sure my reactive motor skills would change to adjust to this but my hand is just too heavy for it...I have just yesterday bought a Cyborg X..got sick of being a flopping, stalling mass of virtual steel. ...now I have only used this for a couple of flights but managed to get out numbered and it felt very close to what I had come accustomed to using the X52..( I still use the X52 throttle and CH pedals)hopefully I can get back to being competitive again the red guys again instead of fighting to keep my plane from stalling out..
Just as a side note to this I found that the 3Dpro seemed to be a power hog...It may just be my imagination but with the new stick my frame rates are back to what they were and with the 3D pro I had to drop my settings to play as the stuttering was disturbing and also took from the ability to perform ingame.......
Changeup...if you can try get one of these...it would be great for traveling as the top of the stick can be removed...awesome little unit actually. still has the 12 buttons, plus a duel throttle and a wheel for trim/flaps if you are so inclined
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I've never seen a MS sidewinder stick that was a power hawg. However, rather than run the ancient 3dpro I'd suggest you get a modern USB sidewinder like the MS Prec 2 USB.
As to the Sidewinder being bouncy, a bit of deadband, and a bit of scaling can quickly tame that bouncy beast.
Instead of using the scaling at the default stairstep, try a low curve.
(http://www.332nd.org/dogs/Ghosth/Pitchscale.jpg)
Something along this line.
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I've always kept it pretty basic. I use a Thrustmaster T-Flight Stick X twisty. I've tried the X-52 and ended up giving it to a relative. I've tried a couple of other Saitek items, but the adjustments still do not conform to my hand. I'm the poorest example of a fighter pilot there is, although there are a couple of planes I enjoy regardless.
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Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 :devil
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I have CH Product, Pedals, Throttle, and Stick...I still suck... :cry
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I still use a 5 yr old Saitek ST-290 with an old GForce8400 card. I fly with a frame rate of 20 mostly. I don't even know if it is microsoft or not. I am not sure if a new stick would help me lol.
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I've never seen a MS sidewinder stick that was a power hawg. However, rather than run the ancient 3dpro I'd suggest you get a modern USB sidewinder like the MS Prec 2 USB.
As to the Sidewinder being bouncy, a bit of deadband, and a bit of scaling can quickly tame that bouncy beast.
Instead of using the scaling at the default stairstep, try a low curve.
(http://www.332nd.org/dogs/Ghosth/Pitchscale.jpg)
Something along this line.
Ghosth:
Always a help!! (Ghosth is the guy that found me in the TA 3 years ago on my FIRST DAY, ground rolling an F4U.....18 times in a row according to my 8 yr old son that reminded me how terrible I was at the game)Is there a scaling "guru" here at HTC in the training corps or offices that could write some explanations on scaling? Maybe ask Skuzzy to create a forum topic for joystick scaling? The reason I ask is because I have spoken with 30+ pilots ingame about scaling and all of them have helped in specific situations but all have admitted limited understanding of each slider and how it works. I know that when scaling is understood and applied as correctly as possible, it is a tremendous aid in the game...bouncy sticks, torque rolling when unwanted etc.
If any of you folks think it would be a good BBS Category too, sound off because I would really like to understand it better. Fixing some of these issues for me through scaling would make the game a ton more enjoyable and it would add a topic resource for new folks that might get unnecessarily frustrated with their equipment. Just a thought...
Changeup
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I still use a 5 yr old Saitek ST-290 with an old GForce8400 card. I fly with a frame rate of 20 mostly. I don't even know if it is microsoft or not. I am not sure if a new stick would help me lol.
I have a GTS 250 video card I will sell you for $80 bucks...1 gig, DDR3...I shouldn't have replaced it truthfully...but I don't feel like taking things apart and returning the new POS GTX 460 I bought. In fact, I will throw in one of my 3D Pro joysticks too! Send me a PM.
Changeup
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Joysticks are like noodlees. It's how you use it that matters :D
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I have CH equipment.
I have seen some great mouse peelots too.
I think the equipment you use can make a difference. I also believe that what is good for one person may not be so good for another. Some folks are smooth on controls others may be a little more ham fisted.
We have a lot of adjustment available to us in game so that we may get the most from whatever we use.
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I am using the 3d pro also changeup never touched the scaling and it handles like a charm. how old are you ? Just wondering i notice older pilots tend to yank and jerk the stick about just to get it to do what they want
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I've never seen a MS sidewinder stick that was a power hawg. However, rather than run the ancient 3dpro I'd suggest you get a modern USB sidewinder like the MS Prec 2 USB.
As to the Sidewinder being bouncy, a bit of deadband, and a bit of scaling can quickly tame that bouncy beast.
Instead of using the scaling at the default stairstep, try a low curve.
(http://www.332nd.org/dogs/Ghosth/Pitchscale.jpg)
Something along this line.
Would these settings help for a sitek 52?
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is there some kind of industry standard that the Min/Max deadbands are set at ?
Not for the deadbands as those are usually set by the driver, programming software or DirectX (via DirectInput). There is a standard in that virtually all gaming sticks are 8 bit and have a signal throw of 0-255 (meaning when you move your stick, the signals move incrementally from 0 to 255).
ack-ack
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Would these settings help for a sitek 52?
Yes...
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Not for the deadbands as those are usually set by the driver, programming software or DirectX (via DirectInput). There is a standard in that virtually all gaming sticks are 8 bit and have a signal throw of 0-255 (meaning when you move your stick, the signals move incrementally from 0 to 255).
ack-ack
Would a particular brand keep a standard setting for this? I ask because as I mentioned when I plugged in the new saitek stick it was very similar to what I was used to with the X52 without mucking about with the scaling side of things...And the 3D pro was vastly different in feel.
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I am using the 3d pro also changeup never touched the scaling and it handles like a charm. how old are you ? Just wondering i notice older pilots tend to yank and jerk the stick about just to get it to do what they want
45...and I do tend to be ham fisted with the thing. I will post the scaling that Bentnail told me about a couple of years ago...man, it was unreal how it positively affected my hit%...then it just stopped working the same. I mean smoothly...now my nose wobbles around when I get below 150 in any aircraft. I mean bouncy...Im going to try Ghosth's scaling when I get home tonight to see if it helps.
Ultimately I think it would be nice to have an area in the BBS where folks could post their scaling inputs and discuss what they do to fix issues or make their sticks perform a little better.
Changeup
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Yes...
Thanks, :salute
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Went from cyborg X to 3dpro, 3dpro nestles somewhere tween by ball sack and my poochute :D
Actually I think the 3dpro has a shorter throw so it makes me stall too much now.
In reality it is probably the operator, I still think the stick suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuucks :furious
JUGlger
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Went from cyborg X to 3dpro, 3dpro nestles somewhere tween by ball sack and my poochute :D
Actually I think the 3dpro has a shorter throw so it makes me stall too much now.
In reality it is probably the operator, I still think the stick suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuucks :furious
JUGlger
I will post the scaling that Bentnail showed me and see if that helps...I believe it will. If you start killing people more than you already do because of this scaling, the AH community cannot blame me...they have to blame Bentnail.
Changeup
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Went from cyborg X to 3dpro, 3dpro nestles somewhere tween by ball sack and my poochute :D
Actually I think the 3dpro has a shorter throw so it makes me stall too much now.
In reality it is probably the operator, I still think the stick suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuucks :furious
JUGlger
:lol the stick goes out fairly easy and quick yes but if you handle it alot smoother it will not go out as quick i find no problems with the 3D Pro other than the short time period i have of using it but that dont matter anyway i have a lifetime warranty on them :neener: :neener: :neener:
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:lol the stick goes out fairly easy and quick yes but if you handle it alot smoother it will not go out as quick i find no problems with the 3D Pro other than the short time period i have of using it but that dont matter anyway i have a lifetime warranty on them :neener: :neener: :neener:
I checked and the stick DOES use scaling ingame. Its in the stick profile.
Changeup
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I checked and the stick DOES use scaling ingame. Its in the stick profile.
Changeup
I have noticed a very big diff when i do not have the profiler up :salute
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I have noticed a very big diff when i do not have the profiler up :salute
So you are running the profiler? Skuzzy told me not to but to instead work the scaling. Maybe the profiler would work better for me...except I messed with Ghosth's scaling and its very smooth....I will see.
:salute
Changeup
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I have noticed a very big diff when i do not have the profiler up :salute
After I had help scaling my stick to "someones" settings my stick 100% more responsive, I could probably hook u up with :)
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So you are running the profiler? Skuzzy told me not to but to instead work the scaling. Maybe the profiler would work better for me...except I messed with Ghosth's scaling and its very smooth....I will see.
:salute
Changeup
With the profiler on it makes it not so sensitive without it you could tap my stick and i would do a half roll lol but try with it on maybe diff for ya :salute i turn it off from time to time
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I have a lack of response on my ch fighterstick in relation with the airplane type.
I did not resolve it by scaling.
Stick behavior and airplane response after about 30° or 40° (pitch) to 90° seem the
most relevant part of the problem - in connection with the kind of flight action too.
How much fast stick passes through that range is another key point probably.
Also HOW the stick input works seems another key point.
If You reach 80° or 90° too fast for too much time, there is a stall.
I did not find too much help by scaling - that's is incredible (pitch)
There is no differences (not so much ) if iI use Ghost's suggestions or if i set all slider up, if I want
to avoid black-out but - and this sounds very strange - enormous difference arises in
spit and pony manouvrability (pitch almost).
A short example: with a parabolic scaling (concavity up) when in pony my nose went down! (dead band checked), and in spit i flew quite pretty well.
From another point of view, I think that it is a matter of flight experience only.
:salute
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In synthesis,
1. Plane behavior depend on how fast a pitch (roll, etc.) position can or must be achieved. :airplane:
2. In which way scaling system works on this for each airplanes? :joystick:
3. If this is correct, then HTC, please, spend a word - on the contrary let spend a word too :lol
:salute
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This is how I have my CH stick set up. The elevators have some scaling to them because I'm one of those "old guys" who was pretty heavy on the stick. I think I'm much smoother now, but with this bit of scaling I get no nose bounce and can put the pipper right were I want it. (now if someone could show me where the right place to put it is :furious )
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/elevator.gif)
The ailerons on the other hand I keep to the top as I want the quickest roll I can get.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/aileron.gif)
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Here are mine....I dont' really know what any of it means but it worked.
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac300/Changeup1/ahss1.jpg)
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac300/Changeup1/ahss2.jpg)
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac300/Changeup1/ahss3.jpg)
Please feel free to offer input..at slow speeds my nose bounces and I black out a ton in relatively high speed dive pullouts....black out too easy IMO....I will take any help I can get
Changeup