Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Drewster327 on January 16, 2011, 03:42:26 AM
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Today I was flying a ME 163 came up to a B-17 shot about 30 rounds point blank all over wings and fueslage and didn't do any damage but the bomber was able to shoot a short burst and kill me. Talking to other players, other's have had the same issues killing bombers with 163s. Possibly glitch? Anyway to look into this?
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The "Bug Reports" forum would be a good starting point. Be sure to include a film. :salute
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shot about 30 rounds point blank all over wings and fueslage and didn't do any damage but the bomber was able to shoot a short burst and kill me.
I think this is the key: "all over wings & fuselage".
A B-17 is a tough aircraft. A single 30mm usually doesn't do fatal structural damage when hitting fuselage or wings (though it can wreck single components, like a flap or rupture a fuel tank). And when 30 rounds are "all over", it's not far fetched to assume that a considerable number of them didn't hit anything at all. Unless you hit the cockpit, you need to concentrate your fire with the Mk 108 just like with any other gun - it just takes far less rounds to reach a critical damage level.
The 163 on the other hand is a small and fast target, but not very durable when being hit by a barrage of .50 cal rounds:
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/889/hownot3.jpg)
(The 163 in the picture got several hits on my bomber, but they had been "all over" too - you can see one of my flaps floating away. I lost the other too, and IIRC one gunner position. Had all those hits been in the same area, I would had lost my bomber.
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Good post Lusche
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I think this is the key: "all over wings & fuselage".
A B-17 is a tough aircraft. A single 30mm usually doesn't do fatal structural damage when hitting fuselage or wings (though it can wreck single components, like a flap or rupture a fuel tank). And when 30 rounds are "all over", it's not far fetched to assume that a considerable number of them didn't hit anything at all. Unless you hit the cockpit, you need to concentrate your fire with the Mk 108 just like with any other gun - it just takes far less rounds to reach a critical damage level.
The 163 on the other hand is a small and fast target, but not very durable when being hit by a barrage of .50 cal rounds:
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/889/hownot3.jpg)
(The 163 in the picture got several hits on my bomber, but they had been "all over" too - you can see one of my flaps floating away. I lost the other too, and IIRC one gunner position. Had all those hits been in the same area, I would had lost my bomber.
Lesson here kids. Stop spraying and praying :aok
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Hit the wingroot on the 17s and start them on fire.
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I think this is the key: "all over wings & fuselage".
A B-17 is a tough aircraft. A single 30mm usually doesn't do fatal structural damage when hitting fuselage or wings (though it can wreck single components, like a flap or rupture a fuel tank). And when 30 rounds are "all over", it's not far fetched to assume that a considerable number of them didn't hit anything at all. Unless you hit the cockpit, you need to concentrate your fire with the Mk 108 just like with any other gun - it just takes far less rounds to reach a critical damage level.
The 163 on the other hand is a small and fast target, but not very durable when being hit by a barrage of .50 cal rounds:
Real life damage on a wing of B-17 one 30mm round from a 262 did this.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/2006_sept7_3s-1.jpg)
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Real life damage on a wing of B-17 one 30mm round from a 262 did this.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/2006_sept7_3s-1.jpg)
And it looks like the pilot landed the plane, am I right?
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And it looks like the pilot landed the plane, am I right?
You know you are. :aok
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Real life damage on a wing of B-17 one 30mm round from a 262 did this.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/2006_sept7_3s-1.jpg)
the pilot must of shat bricks when he landed and saw that gaping hole in his wing.
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What was your attack vector? At what distance did you open fire? Film?
B17's are tough as nails. No glitch, you're just doing it a little off. Stop spraying and concentrate on hitting one spot. "But then I'll eat .50 cals" ANSWER- Get faster!
Today I was flying a ME 163 came up to a B-17 shot about 30 rounds point blank all over wings and fueslage and didn't do any damage but the bomber was able to shoot a short burst and kill me. Talking to other players, other's have had the same issues killing bombers with 163s. Possibly glitch? Anyway to look into this?
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See this thread on how to kill buffs:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,304319.0.html
The strategy applies no matter what bird you fly.
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imagine how i felt in a 163 that made a pass, took out a Ki67, made a second pass on a badly damaged one, only to have the right wing of my aircraft blown off.....
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imagine how i felt in a 163 that made a pass, took out a Ki67, made a second pass on a badly damaged one, only to have the right wing of my aircraft blown off.....
Forgot about that dorsal spud gun, didn't you?
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I giggle every time I see that pic Snailman :D
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Forgot about that dorsal spud gun, didn't you?
yeahhhhhhhh
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Go Head on, from his high 12.
Stay above his nose so you don't collide with lead buff or drone replacing lead you are about to neutralize.
Let taters drop into cockpit.
Watch buff explode.
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Go Head on, from his high 12.
Stay above his nose so you don't collide with lead buff or drone replacing lead you are about to neutralize.
Let taters drop into cockpit.
Watch buff explode.
worst place to attack a buff is from a front. most bombers have more guns on the front that back. (example: b17s haveing 4 .50 cals on front, combine that with drones to become 8 .50 cals on target plus 6 top turret guns makes it 14 .50cals on target)
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12 + 6? :bolt:
worst place to attack a buff is from a front. most bombers have more guns on the front that back. (example: b17s haveing 4 .50 cals on front, combine that with drones to become 8 .50 cals on target plus 6 top turret guns makes it 14 .50cals on target)
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worst place to attack a buff is from a front. most bombers have more guns on the front that back. (example: b17s haveing 4 .50 cals on front, combine that with drones to become 8 .50 cals on target plus 6 top turret guns makes it 14 .50cals on target)
wouldn't that be 12 guns plus the top turrets? :old:
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Tyrannis, Head-on is definitely not the worst place to attack a buff. Coming in at a steep angle, it is probably the best option in my opinion.
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wouldn't that be 12 guns plus the top turrets? :old:
yes sorry, i forgot to add another 4 for the other buff :lol
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Forgot about that dorsal spud gun, didn't you?
I had 2 262's forget about that gun about 2 weeks ago. They each got one of mine, but both jet pilots were back in the tower, and the 3rd never engaged.
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Tyrannis, Head-on is definitely not the worst place to attack a buff. Coming in at a steep angle, it is probably the best option in my opinion.
when i fly BUFFS (17s) in the DA, charger allways does this. every time. he'll come in 3k above me in a 110, then dive down at the last second for the HO. first time he did it he got me, i wasent used to fightng Ho's ina buff. but the second attempt he did it he got a face-full of 18 .50 cals from flying right into them. pretty much easy to beat when your prepared for it.
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I had 2 262's forget about that gun about 2 weeks ago. They each got one of mine, but both jet pilots were back in the tower, and the 3rd never engaged.
Engaging buffs that are not busy shooting at someone else, is insane in this game. Your shorty is over. If you don;t die, you will be damaged enough to not be able to continue.
All the US had to do in WWII was send 3 formations of B17s over Germany and destroy the German air force in a day :lol
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Like I said, at the right angle it's extremely hard to hit fighters with the fast closure rate. Also, nose turrets aren't able to track fighters making a pass at a high 12:00 pass, only allowing an intact formation to get 6 guns on target for a short amount of time. I wouldn't use what pilots in the DA do as evidence. There really isn't enough room in the DA to set up a frontal pass, make the attack, and then reset. A co-alt frontal pass is another story. Quite easy to gun down attackers in that situation, however.
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Why would anyone. Fly buffs in the DA?? Dueling buffs?
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Why would anyone. Fly buffs in the DA?? Dueling buffs?
The old Air Warrior had a special arena for awhile...(can't remember when around 1997 maybe?)...they called it "Dueling Spanish Gallions" or something like that. Since in AW ALL B-17 guns were manned by individual people (and could not be gunned by the person flying the plane). A pilot would get all the guns manned (usually with squaddies) and up to have a knock-down drag-out either "jousting" or by broadsides. Pretty flippin' wild as well as fun. Kind of sparse arena but some folks liked it.
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Why would anyone. Fly buffs in the DA?? Dueling buffs?
it was fun as hell. Now we're reduced to F6F rocket fights.
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Why would anyone. Fly buffs in the DA?? Dueling buffs?
its my way of keeping the spitdweeb population down.(or atleast below 10k.)
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it was fun as hell. Now we're reduced to F6F rocket fights.
Fun fights!
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it was fun as hell. Now we're reduced to F6F rocket fights.
no more 110 rockets?
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no more 110 rockets?
110 easy mode for rockets
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110 easy mode for rockets
tell that to the juro dude, ever since ive started tearing his planes up in my buffs, he tries to come in ina 110,190 firing those rockets at me. good think he's not good at judging distance to target :banana:
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worst place to attack a buff is from a front. most bombers have more guns on the front that back. (example: b17s haveing 4 .50 cals on front, combine that with drones to become 8 .50 cals on target plus 6 top turret guns makes it 14 .50cals on target)
Seems to work just fine for me.
Ludicrous closure speed, coming on a very steep angle from out of the sun at 10/11 or 1/2 o'clock coupled with a small profile makes for a very hard target to track. It negates the advantage one gets from having a "stationary" gun platform as on would have on an attacker on the hind-quarters of a buff.
Also, we're not talking about the DA here, nor do most buff pilots practice defense against this shot.
A Komet closing at say, 450 mph (conservatively) head on with a bomber formation traveling 280 mph (generously) gives a closure speed of ~ 720 mph (not accounting for heading, separation, etc) makes for a shot window of about 5 - 8 seconds. Not much considering the bomber pilot is distracted with flying the plane, lining up the bomb sight and the panic of an encounter with a pilot that has a rocket strapped to his balls and is shooting a cannon that has projectiles the size of a baseball.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/closure.jpg) You are welcome to do the math.
In 5 - 8 seconds, the Komet pilot is already in and out of guns range of the bomber and if flying smart, has also changed his heading during the encounter completely changing the guns solution of the bomber pilot.
Timing is everything when killing buffs. Regardless of how accurate the buff gunner may be, the chances of him getting a meaningful shot diminish in direct proportion to the amount of time the attacker stays within guns range.
A disciplined fighter pilot that has patience and has developed a good sense of his intercept vectors and the ballistics of his weapons can make these shots all day long with impunity.