Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Imaslipper on January 16, 2011, 06:49:33 PM
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Been thinking, I think the collision feature in the game needs to be re-thought. As much as i would like that they were eliminated completely, I know that's not going to happen. But i do think it should be fair. Ex. If I am in a H.O. with someone, and we collide, I shouldn't be the only one losing a wing and crashing to my death. I've noticed how to game chooses who takes the damage, possibly by who makes the more exaggerated move? I'm not sure. Anyone else's Point of view would be nice.
-Slipper
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First :D
A collision from both perspectives:
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8585/collision.gif)
It's fine the way it is.
Search.
In a nutshell: For both to take damage, both must collide.
Trust me. Search the boards. :aok
wrongway
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Welcome to Aces High, I'maslipper.
Here is a link to understand more of why and how the collision modeling is the way it is: http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/lag/lag.htm (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/lag/lag.htm)
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Thanks :) , okay I see the science behind it, and why virtually that's how it works. But should both aircraft be taking damage? Just like a car collision, both vehicles take damage not matter what.
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Thanks :) , okay I see the science behind it, and why virtually that's how it works. But should both aircraft be taking damage? Just like a car collision, both vehicles take damage not matter what.
In the little video above your in the plane that is flying strait and level, way back you see the other plane dodging about,start smoking and dive away. He was never near you from your point of view. However, from his point of view the reason his was dodging around was he was right on your tail and then crashed into you.
So from your point of view he was a 1k away flying silly. Do you think you should go down too?
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No of course not. What is the cause of that delay in information? Is this where the ping issue comes into play. Unless everyone had perfect connection and computer speed it wouldn't work?
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correct, that is where the ping issue comes in. Faster than light internet connections would cure it, however that is still a bit into the future.
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Welcome to the Intardnet. ;)
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The other thing to keep in mind is that even when a "mutual" collision occurs, the damage you take depends on what part of your aircraft collided. So if in his "reality" his wing sliced through yours, then his wing falls off and he crashes. If in your reality his wing barely touched your aileron, then your aileron takes damage as it should. But losing that aileron isn't fatal, is it?
I'm glad to see someone trying to understand how it works (for once) rather than throwing a hissy fit and refusing to see it. It is quite refreshing. Keep it up. :aok
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Okay, so until a genius invents a high speed internet processor, this isn't gonna change. But for the current conditions I guess it's best the way it is. And yes E25280, i see what ya mean by the damage. Thanks for helping guys.
-Slipper
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Out of all the collision threads I've ever seen, this has to have gone the smoothest. A personal thanks to you, Imaslipper, for not being the typical dolt.
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what is funny about the collision model is that you can say that player a went out of his way to avoid collision with b. b was ramming and on his computer he saw it. so b takes damage but not a. on the other hand
same situation but now player A went out of his way to avoid being in the line of fire from player b. player b shoots because he has a gun solution and player A dies. even though player A clearly avoided it.
I know that's how it was modeled, but if somebody avoids the collision and doesnt report a collision, then he should be shot down, because he clearly avoided being in the line of fire.
this is what gets people upset. you can say its two different things, but not really if I can avoid the collision, why cant i also avoid the bullets?
dont bother to explain it and bring nice graphs and links explaining why its not the same thing, when clearly it is. :bolt:
semp
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Oh lord here we go again.
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All these different realities, sounds like quantum physics at work :headscratch: Presumably though, just like the collision model, the bullet strike model works both ways? By this I mean that everyone has the same opportunity to attack the target on their front end, and get in first? Or is there a situation where someone (either through ping or manoeuvre) gains a clear advantage (from lag) ?
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All these different realities, sounds like quantum physics at work :headscratch: Presumably though, just like the collision model, the bullet strike model works both ways? By this I mean that everyone has the same opportunity to attack the target on their front end, and get in first? Or is there a situation where someone (either through ping or manoeuvre) gains a clear advantage (from lag) ?
Bullet collision works like this.
you pull the trigger
You see hit sprites
info is sent to your opponent
He goes boom
AC collision
You fly int an ac
you go boom
that info is sent to your opponent
he sees you go boom.
See the diff?
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Way to attempt a hijack of a civil (and completed) collision thread and try to turn it into another debate about weapon damage. They are two different things. Start a new thread if you want to have that topic discussed further.
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Way to attempt a hijack of a civil (and completed) collision thread and try to turn it into another debate about weapon damage. They are two different things. Start a new thread if you want to have that topic discussed further.
And who are you referring to?
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And who are you referring to?
Guncrasher's (semp's) post.
...your post arrived just before mine. :salute
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Guncrasher's (semp's) post.
...your post arrived just before mine. :salute
Ahhh :salute
As for the people who do not get it.... you cant help those who blame their inadequacy on others.
OR
"There is always a small microcosm of people who need to explain away their suckage."
SlapShot
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good rule if he doesn't "get it"then blame his suckage. but the question still stands. I move my plane out of the way to avoid his collision/bullets. but only can avoid his collision, not the bullets.
as for you take damage in the area where you hit the other airplane, explain how you see an airplane pass you on the left but your right wing falls off.
semp
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good rule if he doesn't "get it"then blame his suckage. but the question still stands. I move my plane out of the way to avoid his collision/bullets. but only can avoid his collision, not the bullets.
You may be able to answer it yourself if you ask it differently: "What would be the consequences for gameplay? What would it mean for the shooter? How would it work out?"
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it is intirely possable to avoid nme rounds, do it all the time, at least while I was ingame, obviously if his tracers are on.....but ya its easy unless the guy has great aim.
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it is intirely possable to avoid nme rounds, do it all the time, at least while I was ingame, obviously if his tracers are on
You can and will be "hit" by enemy rounds that seem to miss you on your FE.
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Ink- You're avoiding them where you're seeing them, and in terms of big moves, the way you avoid them is generally the way it's avoided on the other guy's FE. However, I know for a fact I've been watching tracers come through my canopy from a bandit but registered no damage, presumably because lag meant on his FE he was firing slightly elsewhere. Any other plane's tracers you see are only approximately where they're actually going on his FE, which is where the hits/misses are calculated. Last night I had a prime example of this, I watched a guy firing in a tight turn with me, tracers passing through my wings, no damage. I'd bet on his FE he shot behind me. And for sure, you have seen cases where a warpy guy goes past you, then a half second later you explode due to his pass.
Semp- It's an imperfect world. Both ways of calculating it have a downside. If you do it on the shooter's FE, you get the occasionally blatantly obvious odd kill against you where you don't explode til he's past, and the like. The upside is, if you are shooting at someone and see a bullet hit, it actually hit, there's no uncertainty there.
If you do the calculation on the shootee's FE, the downside is you wind up with people seeing the enemy catch a 3 second burst on their end, and nothing happens to them. The upside, you have a greater capacity to dodge bullets defensively.
It's a better compromise to have it the way it works here, mainly due to the fact that while collisions crop up 1 or 2 times in an evening, we engage in gunnery dozens if not hundreds of times a night. Where the enemy is on your FE when you shoot is the only thing you have to rely on when you shoot. It is far better to have you able to trust that a bullet sprite on your screen from your bullet means he got hit, than to have it possibly not count because it didn't register on the other side.
Wiley.
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You may be able to answer it yourself if you ask it differently: "What would be the consequences for gameplay? What would it mean for the shooter? How would it work out?"
excellent point lusche, never thought about that :salute. that makes more sense, you shouldda seen the face palm i did. too bad i didnt have my camera ready. It sucks, but oh well it serves it's purpose.
however, getting back to the collision thing, the collisions that most people are talking about is the ones, where both planes report a collision, but only one goes down. whenever the collision thing is brought up, most people point to where one avoids it while the other doesnt. but most collisions happens when both report a collision. but only one goes down. I believe this is the part that needs to be fixed. both planes report a collision, both should go down. as it happens now, most often than not, only one goes down.
semp
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Actually, I have a general question- I understand that gunnery damage takes place on the shooter's FE. If I see damage when I pull the trigger, my target gets damaged, regardless of what anybody else sees.
I understand with collisions, if my FE sees the collision, I take damage. However, where is the actual damage calculated, on my FE or the other guy's? I've seen on occasion what Semp's talking about, where you see a guy pass by on the right, and your left wing falls off.
Wiley.
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excellent point lusche, never thought about that :salute. that makes more sense, you shouldda seen the face palm i did. too bad i didnt have my camera ready. It sucks, but oh well it serves it's purpose.
however, getting back to the collision thing, the collisions that most people are talking about is the ones, where both planes report a collision, but only one goes down. whenever the collision thing is brought up, most people point to where one avoids it while the other doesnt. but most collisions happens when both report a collision. but only one goes down. I believe this is the part that needs to be fixed. both planes report a collision, both should go down. as it happens now, most often than not, only one goes down.
semp
But wouldn't it again depend on what part of your aircraft collided with mine?
I have a screen shot, at home, of my entire wing slicing through the other planes wing at mid wing. I don't know what part of his wing hit on his side.
It's really the same thing as the collision argument in general.
I also contend that most of the "collision" deaths are due to getting shot in addition, or even exclusive, to being collided with.
wrongway
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Actually, I have a general question- I understand that gunnery damage takes place on the shooter's FE. If I see damage when I pull the trigger, my target gets damaged, regardless of what anybody else sees.
I understand with collisions, if my FE sees the collision, I take damage. However, where is the actual damage calculated, on my FE or the other guy's? I've seen on occasion what Semp's talking about, where you see a guy pass by on the right, and your left wing falls off.
Wiley.
Your computer detects the intersection with another object, then calculates the damage your plane will take from that intersection.
Sometimes we err on the damage model, where the left wing gets hit but the right wing shows the damage. This is an art bug and the art guys get those taken care of as they are reported. It does not effect the actual damage, only the graphical display of damage.
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Ah, so it's the same whether I run into a building, or another plane. Makes sense.
Do different planes/parts also have a damage component to them, or is it purely just the fact that 'You hit something with this part, now it's broken.' I'm thinking in terms of say, the rudder of an A6M striking the wingtip of a B17. It'd be bad for the zeke, the B17 might feel a slight jolt and check his instruments IRL. Is that sort of thing modeled?
Wiley.
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Ah, so it's the same whether I run into a building, or another plane. Makes sense.
Do different planes/parts also have a damage component to them, or is it purely just the fact that 'You hit something with this part, now it's broken.' I'm thinking in terms of say, the rudder of an A6M striking the wingtip of a B17. It'd be bad for the zeke, the B17 might feel a slight jolt and check his instruments IRL. Is that sort of thing modeled?
Wiley.
Collisions always destroys the component, there is no partial damage.
HiTech
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Collisions always destroys the component, there is no partial damage.
HiTech
...yet
:noid
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...yet
:noid
Hmm... if/when that comes, will there be a resurgence of people flying typhies and P47s and other large, heavy pieces of aircraft in an attempt to find the best aircraft for ramming?
LOL! Demolition derby in 3D...
:noid
Wiley.
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meh I've just been confused the last couple of weeks. It doesn't matter if it says "You have collided" or "So and so has collided with you" I still end up missing pieces and falling to the ground :furious
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meh I've just been confused the last couple of weeks. It doesn't matter if it says "You have collided" or "So and so has collided with you" I still end up missing pieces and falling to the ground :furious
If you ONLY see "you have collided", that means the collision only happended on your front-end and the other guy's front-end did not see the collision. If you ONLY see "xxx has collided with you", then it only happened to him - you won't even hear a sound. If you see BOTH messages, then both front-ends saw a collision and you both take damage. Now, the amount of damage and what gets damaged could be the difference between you both going down and one of you being able to limp home.
If on the other hand he was firing his guns as you "collided", you could have avoided the collision (you only saw "xxx has collided with you) but his guns tore you apart before he collided.
One lesson to learn here is to not get into a position where anyone gets close enough to collide. Easier said than done sometimes, but if people actually try to learn proper ACM, they won't be trying to fly through their opponent's cockpit all the time and collisions would be few and far between.
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Lushe~ of course bro, I wont despute that, but you know you can avoid nme rounds, obviously not every time and like ya said, sometimes you take damage from rounds that never hit ya from your point of view......Ive never had an issue with the way the game works, I think AH is the greatest game ever made, only game to ever make me rush with adrenaline hehe I absolutly miss flyin and diein......I will never complain about any part of this game......except to tell the whiners to shut it.......haha