Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ROCKEYE7 on April 08, 2000, 08:35:00 PM
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Hi,
I come from the not so real part of online flight sims called Fighter Ace 2... I have tried several versions of aces high offline and online in beta and found this game to be a very nice realistic World War 2 flight simulation...
The flying part though a serious learning curve isn't the problem for me its the cost of $29.95 a month.
There are alot of us that are interested in joining your organization of pilots and increasing your monetary cash influx but, 300 bucks a year is not in most peoples budget for an online game simulation.
Yea i can hear the ex Warbirders saying thats cheap in comparison. Well alot of us interested wouldn't pay for playing warbirds with the other options available and the new and upcoming simulations in production.
I like many could deal with the 15-20 dollars max range a month but 30 bucks is simply out of the question for alot of us...
I can tell you this if the priced dropped to that price range the customer base would most certainly grow to include me.
Thanks for your time..
Take Care,
Kirk
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How about free. would u take it if it was free. It is. 8 players
[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 04-08-2000).]
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Kirk,
Sorry bud but I think your looking at the standard price for the "sims of the future". At least for those of the quality of AH WB and WWIIonline. Like you said this is a much better sim than AW3 or FA2. A much better sim is gonna come at a little high price.
Hope you find the money to come join us. (Check in the couch cushions) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Sharky
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You can run, but you just die tired.
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You need to remember, there are only 6 people at HTC and they need to make a living. I personally felt $30 was steep for awhile, but when I thought about it, here's what I figured out:
Given 1000 paying customers at $30 US a month, you net $360000 a year. Divide that by 6 and you get $60000 a year each. Now, how much do servers cost? At least $3000 for anything worthwhile. How many servers do you need for AH, more than one I'll bet. Now add: 3d graphics studio software (3d studio max?), why that's about $2500 at least per copy. How about bandwidth (t1s)? Not cheap, but I don't know exact figures. Building lease, taxes, etc, etc. (HT's beer and pizza fund. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ) Anyway, add it all up and I doubt they get more than $30,000 a year each. Now, imagine if they charged $20 a month. I don't know about the rest of you but I personally can't see how HTC's employees can be expected to work for free, can you?
I believe I once saw a post by HT claiming that the cost to them per customer is $17 a month. If I'm right, and they were only charging $15 a month ... well it doesn't take a math professor to see that you are losing money at the rate of $2000 a month.
Now, once we get a few thousand playing (and paying), then maybe something could be worked out for those who fly less than so many hours a month etc.
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
(It's been too long since I took an English class! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
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Considering all that is involved in developing and supporting a 24 hr online sim, I think $30 is a great bargain.
Maybe not everyone can afford $30 a month, and that is unfortunate, but if someone can afford a computer capable of handling this kind of game, I wouldnt think that price should be too high.
From a selfish point of view, I hope the minor cost of this game keep out alot of the quake heads.
Dago
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You get what you pay for...
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30 bucks for land air mega online ww2 sim is an extreme bargain.
(edit: not the first: AW was?) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 04-09-2000).]
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Originally posted by Citabria:
30 bucks for THE WORLDS FIRST land air mega online ww2 sim is an extreme bargain.
While I love Aces High and adore the latest patch, you're mistaken to think that it's the "WORLDS FIRST land air mega online ww2 sim." Air Warrior added tanks and flakpanzers years and years ago, back before Warbirds or Aces High were twinkles in an eye.
Now, realism and quality wise you may have something. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) But combined ground/air ops go waaaaaaaay back in AW.
-- Todd/DMF
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I want the best, I want it free, and I wanted it yesterday.
How much would $30 buy of your time??????
Committed flight enthusiasts will allocate resources or sacrifice other luxuries to fly in AH.
Which category do you fall in?
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Well I like AH as much as anyone but I am also an avid FA2 flyer and that sim is sadly underrated.
In the advanced arena the FM is alot better and the emersion is there for sure.
We are flying in a historical event tomorrow with 800+ people.
Love AH but cant bash FA2, its a quality sim and getting better all the time
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Todd "Stardog" Garner
Adjutant 358th vFS
355th Virtual Fighter Group
Managing Editor/Webmaster
Stardog's Simshack (http://simshack.frugalsworld.com)
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Hi all
I originally thought it was expensive but I now think it's a damn fine bargain! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I think what was putting people off in Britain, Europe etc., was that you don't get free dial up time so you was having to possibly pay for an ISP and then your phone bill which could, along with AH, go to $100s a month. In Britain now there are many offering an ISP price of about $17 a month with free dial up i.e. - not showing on your phone bill. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I am on a very tight budget, but $17 + $30 for AH is great value! The best thing is that it can only get better to what is already the best WW2 sim out.
Regards
'Nexx'
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I can only echo Replicants comments. As far as the UK was concerned it was the price of the (Phone) service which was the problem. I am not a heavy user of AH but with the latest cheap internet access it still works out at a negligable cost per hour. I think $30 is about right (But if you weant to lower it HT)........
TTFN
snafu
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Wait a minute. $17 a month for an ISP in England? We pay $20 a month here in the U.S.
ITS NOT FAIR. WHHHHHAAAAAAAA!!!! <rant, cry, rant>
Hanz.
P.S. About time British telecom got it together.
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In Russia we pay $50 for Inet, if you pay per hour - it's about $80-90 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) Plus here a nightmare connection, discos, and outstanding rude service....
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I'd have to agree with part of the original post: $30/month is too high for most people.
Remember that when FA first came out it was 19.95/month -- for FA 1.0 (remember that map?). They later dropped the price. It's tough to say why FA boomed from a high of 200 at one time to an average high of 600-700, but it all started about the time they released 1.5, started giving away free month coupons, and lowered the price to 9.95.
Not that I want to see HTC fail, but I like it the way it is now -- both numbers and price. Before 1.02 the highest I saw was around 90 or so, now for the last few night's it's been in the 150s. This is great and the new map seems to handle this well, but I really would hate to see them drop the price and have an influx of several hundred people for reasons I'd rather not go into here.
Possibly in the future, HTC will consider dropping the price a bit, possibly they won't. I don't work for them so I can't speak for what they need for a return on investment.
Personally I don't have a problem paying the $$ because I like the game so much. The only real problem will be when WWII comes out and I have to justify paying upwards of $60/month (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) Fortunately I do not have to worry about that for a while.
Fury
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I feel strongly that I can not get the entertainment that I get as a WW2 AC buff playing Aces High anywhere in the world little own for 42$ canadian.
Frusration can be high too, but entertainment is increadable.
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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Just look at it this way,
$30.00 a month for AH vs $30.00 a night out on the town, Hell My wife's happy with the savings But pissed that I won't leave the house. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ,said somthing about shooting HT the next time she saw him.!
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!!! Heater !!!
(http://www.geocities.com/heater_nl/_private/heater.jpg)
Shit Happens All The Time
"If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done."
[This message has been edited by Heater (edited 04-10-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Heater (edited 04-10-2000).]
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Hans - do you also pay $1/hour to stay on-line? We do... That's on top of ISP cost...
There're a few ISPs offering US-type connect (no phone charges) but the connect quality is crap.
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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
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ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
yet another one........
Heater, could you maybe lend your wife to these guys for a week ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Saw
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 04-10-2000).]
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Let's face it, $30 bones a month keeps the riff-raff out. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Rip,
Not true, just look at those JG2 guys, they are a menace to the skies. Who let them in anyway? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/p51.JPG)
[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 04-10-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 04-10-2000).]
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Cobra <S>, I'll take that as a compliment!
"JG 2 'Richthofen' - 51 Strong, where the best only get better..."
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
=CO=II/JG2~Richthofen~
JG2 Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
Turning Spitfires into Bud Lite cans since 1992
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-10-2000).]
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The only thing I'd like to see is an option for an hourly (GASP!!!!) rate. Vacation time coming and letting an account sit idle for a week or two really jacks up the average $ per hour.
[This message has been edited by Toffer (edited 04-10-2000).]
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Rip,
It absolutely is a compliment, sir! <S>
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/p51.JPG)
[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 04-10-2000).]
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Good thing since we ONLY accept compliments (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Saw/Saintaw
=XO=III/JG2~Richthofen~
GMT T.O.D. SITE (http://www.wardogs.org/ah/)
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/dorasaint.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
Don't shoot ! I am only an observer......
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 04-10-2000).]
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I think $30 is very reasonable for the enjoyment you get out of AH every month. I don't have a problem with HTC making a tidy profit from us, as long as they continue to provide top-notch customer support.
I can't afford to pay $60,000 for a Mercedes. Do you think it would help if I sent them an email asking them to lower the price to $20,000 so I can afford it? Probably not. So, I have to be happy with my Saturn. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm truly sorry for everyone out there who can't afford the price of admission. But if you really think hard, there has to be a way to come up with an extra $30/month. Maybe a second(or third) part-time job?
As Funked said, you get what you pay for. If you can't afford the price tag, then there are other lower-priced options out there for you.
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"
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Yes. Exaclty what banana said.
Sorry. I for one DO NOT want the teaming unwashed mouthed masses flooding the arenas at $10/mo. AW and FA are the poster children for the ills that come with that kind of rediculous rate plan.
-Westy
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Well said banana!
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Apache
++Renegade Nation++
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Fortunately, I can afford this. Easily I might add. Since Im in the lower part of the middle class mass I suspect most people can afford $29 a month for something as fun and enjoyable as online simming.
Yeager
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Well - it's not cheap and sometimes $/hour creep higher that $2/hour of WB. But I get nothing out of WB any more. It's stale and hasn't changed for months. Errr.. Since HT et all left, actually, there were no good changes there IMHO.
AH is not perfect but you can see changes coming up so fast I wonder when these guys sleep (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif). And it's getting better all the time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
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Let me put it this way guys.
I'm currently unemployed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Wife works a good job maybe 18k/year.
She has 35k in School loans to pay back.
Plus all the monthly bills. In short, times are tight.
STILL we find enough money to pay for AH & isp.
Don't even think about dropping the price.
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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels
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If you have a computer that is modern enough to play AH, how much does it depreciate each year? Probably way more than $360. Most of us are paying $180 to $500+ just to be connected to the internet. How much do we spend on input devices that wear out often? I can't think of a hobby that is comparable in coolness to AH that is in it's price range. The laws of supply and demand certainly state that lower prices yield more customers, but that does not nessesaraly mean a greater profit. Ford cold sell a billion cars next year if they only priced them at $100 each. They would have grossly passed the ideal profit margin though. See the point?
The best $360 a year that I spend is on AH.
eskimo
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Itīs sad that quality coasts, but itīs a fact. 30$ a month keeps "butterflyers" away.
It also keeps our community "tight".
Crabofix "fish, salted, dry and fresh"
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Flygflottlj.19(Lento R5)"swedish Gladiators"
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Thanks for all the respective replies guys! And yes i do understand the need of any business provider to make decent money... Money can be made in numbers of customers also.
You can also restrict your income by putting the price out of range for alot of would be customers.
As far as keeping riff raff out hehe, most will not tolerate the complexity of this game so that is not a problem... Also consider the fact that alot of players can't play everyday either so maybe they only get time to play 2-3 times a week...
In relation to FA being 19.95 a month back when it started, they didnt' have many customers until they dropped the price to $9.95 a month... Now they average about 600 players online from around 10am to whenever...
I would bet having a monthly unlimted subscription price of 20 bucks a month would be easier to stomach than 30...
What i do like here is the excellant customer support that Pyro provides!!!!!!!
I may sign on for a few until my wife starts slapping me upside the head in disbelief on how any pc user can waste 30 bucks a month on a flight sim lol.
Good Day,
Kirk
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Another question to ask is what kind of customer load is HTC willing to handle? I mean, most businesses just assume that the more customers you have the better without thinking of all the increased logistics involved. And quite a few businesses have failed because they rashly built a mega-customer base while retaining a small business infrastructure. Of course, it would behoove HTC to not think of expansion, but OTOH a quality game built from a highly skilled group that prides itself on strong customer relations has a special, and viable, charm all its own.
As long as HTC's 'gang of six' keep their standards up there, and remain true to the game, $30/month will only seem like more and more of a deal.
Think about it. We're seven months into this game since it went open beta. Seven months. In three times that amount, we'll have so many planes we'll be asking for hang gliders to fly off the slopes of A1, just for a change (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Given that amount of time, who knows, maybe Hitech will get bored and decide, Heck, I guess I could do some AI for trains and ground troops (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
And in three times the amount that Aces High has been out, it won't even be two years.
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 04-12-2000).]
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"In relation to FA being 19.95 a month back when it started, they didnt' have many customers until they dropped the price to $9.95 a month... Now they average about 600 players online from around 10am to whenever..."
I think you may have found some of the answer in your own post to your question with that very line. I'm not sure HTC are aiming to be just another Burger King or McDonalds massively multiplayer sim. The Zone and Gamestorm are what they are (sarcasm!) because of thier marketing decisions.
I'd rather liken Aces High to a place where the product offered is much better, the staff is very knowlegable and friendly with alot of experience to know what the customers would like and the clientelle is mature and over all more intellegent.
If there is any doubt really as to what Aces High is about or who HTC is marketing to and what they are offering then go to the main page on thier website.
It's quite different from what you would read at The Zone or Gamestorm.
-Westy
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Hey Kirk, if you're wife needs some talking too, I'm sure some of us could put her in touch with our wives. They'll politely explain to her that although annoying, having the husband playing AH is a lesser evil than having him spend time out at the bar or the strip joint.
:P
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
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Better yet, get the wife second job. You'll have extra money to spend on AH, and she won't be around to nag. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
popeye
Just kidding, Olive. OUCH!
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Okay, wives seem to be a common denominator when it comes to restrictive costs regarding OL gaming. Here's what I said to my wife when I justified my $100 a month while flying in WB's when it went from beta to pay:
Wife: "$100 dollars on visa for online gaming!?!"
Rip: "Others spend more, like $300 a month"
Wife:"That is unacceptable"
Rip: "Okay, I'll just go back to stopping by the local bar and shooting pool, doing alittle pull-tab gambling, which averages $20-$40 a stop, twice a week, times 4 weeks in a month, which equals a min. max of anywhere between $160 and $320 a month that I used to spend doing that before I bought this computer."
Wife: "Try to keep your WB's bill under a $100 a month please!"
Rip: (Winks) "Okay."
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
=CO=II/JG2~Richthofen~
JG2 Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
Turning Spitfires into Bud Lite cans since 1992
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-12-2000).]
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I have to admit, these guys are coding machines.
The amount of progress I've seen in 7 months is incredible compared to the glacial progress I've seen in other online sims.
Its going to be an interesting year. ;>
Wab
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Alot of mention about the 30 dollar price filter keeping out Quaker's and rifraf.
Like hell this place is full of text buffer tough guys who use thier keyboards to make their darring assaults.
I spend 30 bucks on one bottle of good sour mash so I'm not kiddin myself about it being to expensive but there will no doubt be other true war sims to come out and pander for our dollars, competition sets prices if it doesn't we sure are generous.
Air Warrior III though dated still IMHO had a better group, I feel that way because there isn't even close to as much teamwork in here, maybe on the squadron level, but I've seen very little at the country level.
If you think I'm wrong, TOUGH I'm tired of trying to make friends with board flamers, cry babbies and know it alls.
Anyone needs help with a mission other than furballing or squeaking about head-ons however, I got yer six.
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whhaaahhh!
www.aros.net/~gmartin/now/ (http://www.aros.net/~gmartin/now/)
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jbnace
Life is
The greatest game of all
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OK...I go snow skiing 20-30 times a season, cost 60.00 a pop. I used to motoX cost 6000.00 a year in hardware fuel track fees. Flight cost 56.00 an hr. , you goto the movies or dinner show with a lady and costs 30-150 $ a pop (no pun intended). Weekend at Disneyland with 2 kids costs $600. if you bring your own food ! Your car depreciates like the NASDAQ or actually faster. 5 days in Hawaii for 2 costs $2000+ unless you like staying 10 miles inland. $30 a month for play time available 24hrs a day 7 days a week at your beck-n-call with the the service HTC prod. gives...HELL YA ! it's a steal ! I've tried some of them other sims ..except Warbirds and they are rediculous , worse than the .25 cent arcade games in the movie house. This game has saved me at least $200 in the last week alone since my nephew is visiting , he's glued to this game (so i dont have to take him or his buddies around town!)This weekend him and his buddies are gonna have a little tourney playing AH against each other then he flies back to his unit so i'm gonna save some big money this weekend also ! They'll all be bz playing AH !
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Pappy, that's a bi-product of "2 week free trial" and "New game" syndrome, AW had it when I first played in the late 80's (early 90's?) and WB's had it early on too. It takes awhile for some of that to fade.
If you flight Knight, look up any JG2 member online, we're up 24 hours a day 7 days a week, and usually have some ops going, not all the time I warn you!
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
I/JG2~Richthofen~
JG2 Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
Turning Spitfires into Bud Lite cans since 1992
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-14-2000).]