Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: 321BAR on January 21, 2011, 05:38:14 AM
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ok so ive done flat plates before. honestly, i dont remember exactly what i do to do them and to be able to explain it. that and ive noticed it has to be at the correct angle, at the correct speed, and at the correct time. If ANYONE can tell me how to perfect the flat plate in the game in a 51 ill love you forever :cry
(honestly, i can do them somewhat irregularly (and often surprising the enemy on my six in the process :ahand ) i just cant get the setup for it down fully and the exact correct timing to kick the rudders/ailerons/elevators. Its so hard for me to do that i can barely copy it).
I guess you could call me the wild idiot stunt pilot who tries to wreck spits in 1 on 1s on the deck regularly as a challenge in my 51s :aok I've got controlled flatspins, gyrolike maneuvers, etc down. Its just this one freaking maneuver that gets me in a bind if i cant pull it off right...
If there's any pilot in here that actually has experience in this maneuver please contact me. I'd love to see how its done properly <S>
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Maybe someone can start off by explaining what the heck a flat plate is. :D
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The only reference to a flat plate that I'm aware of is Col John Boyd pitching the nose of an F-100 up to slow it down and cause an overshoot.
http://www.aviation-history.com/airmen/boyd.htm
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this was shown on the TV show dogfights,Richard Candelaria was reported to have used the "flat plate"to reverse a 109.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdCm5z2RpI8
This is a stall manuver,last ditch effort and you must be real lucky to get a shot off and not auger.
YMMV.
:salute
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If there's any pilot in here that actually has experience in this maneuver please contact me. I'd love to see how its done properly <S>
Good Evening 321BAR,
if I am not mistakening your "flate plate" maneuver you are wanting to learn, I think I recall dtango had a quite lengthy write up along with some pictures & animated.gifs taken from the ah film viewer showing trails on, or something similar to this while flying the AH P51 series plane in Aces high
try doing a search for the AH BBS Username dtango and flat plate in the advanced search............ also only search in the following 2 forums:
Help & Training Forum & Aircraft & Vehicles forum...... to quicken your search and not search for posts in all the other regular forums......
I wish I could point you in the right direction but I am on a back up PC at the moment.... all my resources are on my other PC.....
( also, I believe Widewing might have posted some examples as well, however I may be thinking of the wrong player on this second choice ), I know dtango has covered this on these 2 subforums though ---> Help & Training and Aircraft & Vehicles
hope this helps, even thought it isn't much to go on
edit: 321BAR, here is a link to one of "dtango's" posts regarding this maneuver in Aces High
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,267130.msg3336378.html#msg3336378
again, hope this is what you are looking for :salute
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I've done it once to perfection and quite accidentally in a Tempest and never been able to repeat it despite several attempts however I was also only able to bring it around 180 degrees.
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Morfiend I saw that episode but I don't recall it being referred to as a flat plate maneuver. I would call it a stall spin lucky shot. :D
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Morfiend I saw that episode but I don't recall it being referred to as a flat plate maneuver. I would call it a stall spin lucky shot. :D
The clip I linked didnt have the "expert" commentation that the actual program does. If you check TC's link to the Dtango thread you'll see the reference to Candelaria.
I totally agree with your call on the stall spin,occassionally I can do it in the 110c but it's pure luck to get a shot off.
:salute
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The way I did it by accident, I was in a Temp being chased by three cons. I had the nose up at about 15-25 degrees and was near a stall at the top when I saw the cons gaining on me from behind. I tried to roll against the engine torque and when the plane didn't respond I kicked full rudder to help it out. As soon as I did that the entire plane rotated around it's axis and I was facing back exactly where I had come from with three cons coming at me HO.
Like I said, I've never been able to do that again even though I've tried.
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Hey BAR, not sure it this is what your looking for but its pretty cool none the less.
http://youtu.be/dBgHv_GgAW0 (http://youtu.be/dBgHv_GgAW0)
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Hey BAR, not sure it this is what your looking for but its pretty cool none the less.
http://youtu.be/dBgHv_GgAW0 (http://youtu.be/dBgHv_GgAW0)
gotta love krup and his 109 :lol guy can tailslide like its nothing in a K4 :aokGood Evening 321BAR,
if I am not mistakening your "flate plate" maneuver you are wanting to learn, I think I recall dtango had a quite lengthy write up along with some pictures & animated.gifs taken from the ah film viewer showing trails on, or something similar to this while flying the AH P51 series plane in Aces high
try doing a search for the AH BBS Username dtango and flat plate in the advanced search............ also only search in the following 2 forums:
Help & Training Forum & Aircraft & Vehicles forum...... to quicken your search and not search for posts in all the other regular forums......
I wish I could point you in the right direction but I am on a back up PC at the moment.... all my resources are on my other PC.....
( also, I believe Widewing might have posted some examples as well, however I may be thinking of the wrong player on this second choice ), I know dtango has covered this on these 2 subforums though ---> Help & Training and Aircraft & Vehicles
hope this helps, even thought it isn't much to go on
edit: 321BAR, here is a link to one of "dtango's" posts regarding this maneuver in Aces High
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,267130.msg3336378.html#msg3336378
again, hope this is what you are looking for :salute
from what i have read from the John Boyd article, what i am looking for is very similar to the CGI representation of Richard Candelaria's maneuver (so i am correct in my thoughts that i was conducting flat plates irregularly). But it also seems that although i am flat plating the bird, i believed it to be another maneuver (which thinking back was also like a frisbee effect (i actually almost had my guns on the enemy that was on my six twice doing this).
I understand it is a last ditch maneuver, but i am learning that sometimes extremely wild maneuvers wont be for last ditch and ive come out on top with some of them ;) (but not the flat plate...) :bhead
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ummm...... not to sure about "sometimes extremely wild maneuvers won't be for last ditch"...... most would not even be thinking of doing something extreme or wild unless they had nothing left in their sack to pull out for a defensive situation........
even though pulling off an "extremely wild maneuver" might grant a person a shot opportunity more times than not....
I must insist and say it is last ditch still , or at least it is not an appropriate way to be approaching an engagement and it should not be taught as a way to obtain a setup to pursuade your opponent into thinking he has a shot then trying to turn the tables on them by pulling some wild maneuver on them.....
These things are good to know however if you can become proficient in exercising them, if your are competent enough to make the maneuver work for you say 95 to 99 % of the time if you find yourself in an akward position and are in a "MUST USE NOW" situation......
now on a different note: I have kept going back and looking at that Bf109 youtube film/video link of Krupinski's....... and I can not find where he did any tail slide,am I looking at the wrong link? I see Krup roll inverted and then do what seems to be something similar to a controlled inverted flat spin but he seems to recover from it exactly when he needs too ........ almost as if he has set and practiced that maneuver over and over 1,000s of times.......... that is how smooth it looks like he performs / pulls it off......... it would be nice to get the RAW AH Film of that you tube video......... to be able to see more of it before that particular engagement........ that was one heck of a shot, or Krup has one of those golden horseshoes hidden somewheres :D
BAR, if you would like more info on those Flat Plates and their use in AH, try doing some more searches on the boards..... that topic has been popping up for several years everytime dogfights or Battle360 or Wings of the (country goes here) episodes run on the History or the Military channels on TV......
hope this helps :salute
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I propose we call this move the frisbee. I think it's more descriptive and avoids confusion with Boyd's use.
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I propose we call this move the frisbee. I think it's more descriptive and avoids confusion with Boyd's use.
I think it should be called "GAMEY" :neener:
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well hey, i never touch my rudder or throttle or flaps in a manuvering fight so i guess i should pay attention here :lol
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ummm...... not to sure about "sometimes extremely wild maneuvers won't be for last ditch"...... most would not even be thinking of doing something extreme or wild unless they had nothing left in their sack to pull out for a defensive situation........
even though pulling off an "extremely wild maneuver" might grant a person a shot opportunity more times than not....
I must insist and say it is last ditch still , or at least it is not an appropriate way to be approaching an engagement and it should not be taught as a way to obtain a setup to pursuade your opponent into thinking he has a shot then trying to turn the tables on them by pulling some wild maneuver on them.....
These things are good to know however if you can become proficient in exercising them, if your are competent enough to make the maneuver work for you say 95 to 99 % of the time if you find yourself in an akward position and are in a "MUST USE NOW" situation......
now on a different note: I have kept going back and looking at that Bf109 youtube film/video link of Krupinski's....... and I can not find where he did any tail slide,am I looking at the wrong link? I see Krup roll inverted and then do what seems to be something similar to a controlled inverted flat spin but he seems to recover from it exactly when he needs too ........ almost as if he has set and practiced that maneuver over and over 1,000s of times.......... that is how smooth it looks like he performs / pulls it off......... it would be nice to get the RAW AH Film of that you tube video......... to be able to see more of it before that particular engagement........ that was one heck of a shot, or Krup has one of those golden horseshoes hidden somewheres :D
BAR, if you would like more info on those Flat Plates and their use in AH, try doing some more searches on the boards..... that topic has been popping up for several years everytime dogfights or Battle360 or Wings of the (country goes here) episodes run on the History or the Military channels on TV......
hope this helps :salute
alright i admit. when i posted that it was after 22 hours of being awake AND after an all nighter for work... also while a lil buzzed :rolleyes:
Krup always calls it the tail slide and when you look at it from some angles, although it is truly a controlled flatspin, it actually looks like he is fishtailing the 109 like a car would fishtail (as a rough example)
I propose we call this move the frisbee. I think it's more descriptive and avoids confusion with Boyd's use.
fine with me because the move that Boyd describes was not what i believed was a flat plate maneuver. Could there be two descriptions of it? anyways back to the drawing board to figure this one out and to look through the forums some more... :rolleyes: :bhead :bhead :bhead
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Here's the full film, TC. 13mins long, the move is about 4:30 in.
http://www.mediafire.com/?s151681tpbgc4ys
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Here's the full film, TC. 13mins long, the move is about 4:30 in.
http://www.mediafire.com/?s151681tpbgc4ys
Thanks Krup :aok :salute will check it out this evening
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Get a look at Lepape2 hunt or prey film. There you will see one or two of that action.
:salute
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I watched Rogent perform them over and over in the DA after he spent a few weeks mastering it. Dude knows the Pony D well. Hopefully he will stop by and post films... :aok