Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: oTRALFZo on January 26, 2011, 04:44:57 AM
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The never ending controversy of what this game is supposed to be between furballers and basetakers only feeds it's own fire everytime the debate is brought up. Some people want to rule the map and some want to rule the sky. You have to admit that the dynamics of both styles of play actualy make the game what it is and you cant have one without the other no matter how hard you look.
There is no debate on the fact that you basetakers out there need guys that are willing to defend or your game will rapidly just die off out of mere boredom. You furballers need basetakers or this game would be nothing but guys flying 30k above their feild with no will or need to enter at sort of disadvantage. These days to survive in the MAs, you almost HAVE to have some sort of advantage if you plan on having any sort of fun either by numbers, suprise attack or whatever.
Like it or not, ENY is a genious system that is put into place preventing this game from being AIRQUAKEII. We also have a perk point system that encourages people to use their skill to fly "inferior" types of planes, GVs.
To the new customer, the 2 weeker that comes in to try this game in the MAs understandably has to suffer a long tedious process of self training to get anything done. I dont blame them one bit to want to fly in the comfort of many other freindlies. Agreed that some guys leave their comfort zone sooner than others, but most never the desire to put themselves at a constant disadvantage because we can all agree its not fun.
My question to HTC and the community is: Is there any system that we can put into place that rewards people that put themselves in a disadvantage and overcomes? Just a shot in the dark here but would it be feasable to have say a "Interceptor" category on the AH page that is devoted to the guys that like defending? Perhaps coding the game in a way that if you come within 2k of red guys with less green guys earns your name in lights "XXX landed 4 victories and survived a 2vs1"? By no means am I computer programer so I have no clue on this. I just would like to hear people's oppinion.
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quite sure we allready know who the peeps that like to defend vs those who like to horde are
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Is there any system that we can put into place that rewards people that put themselves in a disadvantage and overcomes?
yes there is - a local points/perks modifier.
currently there is a Perk Point Bonus modifier (Bcountry) for damage points or perks (P) which depends on ENY, so:
Pawarded = Bcountry x P
just add a local modifier (Blocal) which is the ratio of enemies/friendlies within eg. icon range, so:
Pawarded = Blocal x Bcountry x P
if you get a kill and/or score damage in a 1v1, 2v2 etc, you'll get the same perks/points as you do now.
if you're outnumbered 1v2, 2v4 etc, you get double the perks/points.
if you're hording 10v1, you get 1/10 the perks/points.
simples.
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My opinion?
The game is fine the way it is.
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You mentioned the sides that are most extreme in these issues, the furballers and the base-takers. Most of us are quite happy middle of the road fur-takers(lol) or base-ballers! :D
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I like the idea, but it has some flaws. What if you have a 10 year vet taking on 2 week noobs? The 10 year vet probably still has a slight advantage even if he's outnumbered. What about if it's 4v1, but I have an altitude advantage and I'm in a K4? I can keep climbing all day long and control the fight. I still have the tactical advantage even if they have superior numbers. A cookie cutter eny based on how many people your going against won't ever work because every engagement is different.
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sure, the local bonus only accounts for numbers advantage, not tactical advantage. it isnt perfect, but it is better.
in your example it will be harder to get a kill 1v4 than 1v1, so you get more reward.
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Here is an idea: have an arena progression plan for the 2 weekers/noobs. Start em off in EW, after a few days transfer em to MW, and once they have their wings attached ship em off to the meat grinder, LW.
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The average player in MA enjoys both sides of the game furballing and taking bases/or defending. After the changes over past years ( arena split, arena closed every 12 hours ,.....), the pure score/ furballer/land 100s of kills style, still has fun, but...... there's absolutely no reward or fun for basetakers because it's close to impossible to reach their goal and win the war. I didn't see a map reset for long time;imop the map reset % should be reduced from 40% to 20% and let all paying customers have fun, not only one category; and what's bad in having maps changing more often?
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arena split, maps resetting every 12 hours ,.....)
maps do not reset every 12h.
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yes there is - a local points/perks modifier.
currently there is a Perk Point Bonus modifier (Bcountry) for damage points or perks (P) which depends on ENY, so:
Pawarded = Bcountry x P
just add a local modifier (Blocal) which is the ratio of enemies/friendlies within eg. icon range, so:
Pawarded = Blocal x Bcountry x P
if you get a kill and/or score damage in a 1v1, 2v2 etc, you'll get the same perks/points as you do now.
if you're outnumbered 1v2, 2v4 etc, you get double the perks/points.
if you're hording 10v1, you get 1/10 the perks/points.
simples.
That's an idea, it would encourage people to go in at a disadvantage, but I think the math might need a bit of tweaking.
For example, let's take the extreme. Suppose I'm cruising along in my P47D-11 (eny 30 iirc) o'doom at altitude and I happen across a flock of 5 ponies on the deck, having just finished hording a couple of friendlies. Fortunately for me, their BnZ defense is weak, and I manage to kill a couple of them.
So we plug the appropriate values into the formula,
Pawarded = 5 x 1 x 6 = 30 for the first one, and 4 x 1 x 6 = 24 for the second.
54 perks for a few minutes' work seems a bit on the high side. It'd get even worse if you start having country modifier stacking with that. Even moreso if you factor in landing bonus. Just with landing bonus, 67.5. With landing bonus and a 1.25 'we're outnumbered' modifier, you're looking at over 84 points.
Seems a bit excessive to me.
Edit: The other thing to think about is, how would that modify peoples' gameplay style? It greatly encourages base defense, and greatly discourages hording a base to vulch. It also gives guys that are so inclined another reason to whine on range, because people 'came into their area and ruined their perk farming'.
It's interesting to consider how it would affect tactics and gameplay. I wonder how many people have perks as a main driving force? I know farming perks is fairly important to me because I like to fly a jet now and again, but am not very good at it. <g> I also haven't been around long enough to rack up a metric buttload of perks.
Perhaps having that modifier, tweaked a bit or capped at 3x or something along those lines, and applied to perks as well as score might change how a lot of people fly. Again, I'm just not sure how many are actually influenced by the numbers counting up and how to maximize them. I'm guessing it probably wouldn't affect the win the war people all that much, I'd guess it might affect people who like to furball moreso.
Wiley.
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Not so sure any of what I said was relivent! sorry :)
JUGgler
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For some, intercepting a horde of 2 weeker Jabos is almost easy mode.
I see no reason to change the perk system to break up those grouped 'targets'. They may eventually take the base but the interceptors can often take home 10 perks at a time if they fly smartly, bagging a few victories and RTB.
(Jug, I think increased ack will only promote the weaklings to run to it more)
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RTB.
(Jug, I think increased ack will only promote the weaklings to run to it more)
This is true!
How about a forcefield around my plane till I reach 200' and 200 mph :) :old:
JUGgler
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Now that i have been here for 5 weeks or so, i am used to the game, but i did like the way Fighter Ace handed the discrepany in ranks better..It felt more rewarding to score better against a top player than a noob, and made it wrth wile as well. Of course you needed to know the 8new toons* that were really pros, but that was easy..
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I am a BASE-BALLER ... Love the new term.
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this exact idea I have brought up years ago, I think it would go a long way to get rid of the "mega hourds" if this was implemented years ago I would have masive perks:-) 90% of my kills are when im out #erd. I think this is a great idea and should be implimented. The hourd crowd wont like the idea, and as far as what sunsfans said ya a real good stick can fight against 2/4 cons if he has advantage in ALT, BUT it still is very hard and you better be a master at your craft, and the hourds come in at a lot more then a few guys, hell ive fought 15+ guys killed a couple and made them work there bellybutton off trying to kill me, anyone of those guys would have died if they were by themselves, so Ya I think this is a GREAT idea and absolutly should be implemented. But to avoid one guy from just vulching or hovering over a field and killing as they roll, make the multiplyer void if within say 2K from an nme field.
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Two concepts that have been brought up here many times that I'd love to see tried out:
(1) Airfield limits - once x number of planes and GVs have taken off from any given field, no one else can up there until someone dies or ends flight. Small strips won't be able to launch 50-plane hordes. Large fields will become very valuable real estate!
(2) Zone ENY. The problem with ENY is it's designed for a zero-sum 2-way war, while we have a 3-way war. At any given time the side with the high ENY may be the most heavily outnumbered in the actual distribution of planes on the map. If we're going to have ENY, it should reflect reality within the game.
I'm torn on the idea of a beginner's arena. I fear it might hurt the game. Two-weekers are certainly necessary to kweep the game viable by replacing those who move on - never forget that this is a for-profit business and if it ever stops being profitable it won't be here for any of us! The question is whether being diverted to a beginner's arena would make it more or less likely for 2-weekers to convert to paying customers. I don't have even a guess as to the answer to that, but I suspect it would depend partly on how many 2-weekers there are at any given time. It would be absolutely necessary to have some trainers willing to hang out there and help the newbs get started.
Tralfazz, I have absolutely nothing to disagree with in what you've said here. Base taking exists to give a strategic goal toward which the fighting is directed. It is the goal of the game, but not the point of the game, if that makes sense. I often compare AH to football; football would be boring if there were only one team and you just ran down the field scoring touchdowns with no one opposing, but it would also be boring if there were no touchdowns and the teams just ran around throwing, running, and blocking with no particular aim in mind.
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Here's an idea, if the goal is more fighting then extend radar range another 50% have radar mark targets that are over 20K anywhere on map and each time a field is lost ALL peeps on the losing country will lose a certain amount of perks!
Changing the radar will allow the "attacked" country time to respond and losing perks will motivate many to defend! just my thoughts!
JUGgler
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Here's an idea, if the goal is more fighting then extend radar range another 50% have radar mark targets that are over 20K anywhere on map and each time a field is lost ALL peeps on the losing country will lose a certain amount of perks!
Changing the radar will allow the "attacked" country time to respond and losing perks will motivate many to defend! just my thoughts!
JUGgler
2) things..
1) local ENY instead of a global ENY. This would combat unstoppable hordes.
2) Not having the first item would allow a group of people to take bases late at night then the other teams have under 20 people on them and punish them from an already difficult situation.
if you don't believe me, just look at mid war, or early war... one side will be rolling bases with 12-14 people and the other countries have 2 people.
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2) things..
1) local ENY instead of a global ENY. This would combat unstoppable hordes.
2) Not having the first item would allow a group of people to take bases late at night then the other teams have under 20 people on them and punish them from an already difficult situation.
if you don't believe me, just look at mid war, or early war... one side will be rolling bases with 12-14 people and the other countries have 2 people.
In response Ardy
1) A gaggle of ki61s is just as bad if not worse than a gaggle of jets ;)
2) mid and early war are completely different "mindsets" compaired to latewar, The increased population of LW will naturaly discourage most of the behavior seen in the other arenas
JUGgler
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The average player in MA enjoys both sides of the game furballing and taking bases/or defending. After the changes over past years ( arena split, arena closed every 12 hours ,.....), the pure score/ furballer/land 100s of kills style, still has fun, but...... there's absolutely no reward or fun for basetakers because it's close to impossible to reach their goal and win the war. I didn't see a map reset for long time;imop the map reset % should be reduced from 40% to 20% and let all paying customers have fun, not only one category; and what's bad in having maps changing more often?
If we did that the good maps for us furballers would get trashed and reset quickly such as Baltic, Vag, or NDIsles. Still wouldnt be a compromise. How many times do you see one country own TT in NDIsles? Thats no fun. If you want the war to be won the best thing to do is go bish and stay with the big green dar bar and maybe, just maybe you will survive a few sorties. The war shall not be won.
If you want to win a war and feel rewarded, go horde in EW or MW.
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edit.. double post my computer is running slow
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crap..lol
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this exact idea I have brought up years ago, I think it would go a long way to get rid of the "mega hourds" if this was implemented years ago I would have masive perks:-) 90% of my kills are when im out #erd. I think this is a great idea and should be implimented. The hourd crowd wont like the idea, and as far as what sunsfans said ya a real good stick can fight against 2/4 cons if he has advantage in ALT, BUT it still is very hard and you better be a master at your craft, and the hourds come in at a lot more then a few guys, hell ive fought 15+ guys killed a couple and made them work there bellybutton off trying to kill me, anyone of those guys would have died if they were by themselves, so Ya I think this is a GREAT idea and absolutly should be implemented. But to avoid one guy from just vulching or hovering over a field and killing as they roll, make the multiplyer void if within say 2K from an nme field.
I dont think it would upset the hordes in any way because it wouldnt affect them in any way. (unless of course of embarasment of 5 guys ganging up on a guy and loosing).
Perks are great..but honestly, besides the rush of farming perks when the ENY mulitplier is high, I dont really care for perk rides. I hear of guys having 15,000 in some categories and to me, it doesnt give real incentive.
I think the name in lights would attract some old guys and many of the new crowd to at least TRY to put themselves against the #s advantage. Making it for guys to see would probably pursuade a crowd to at least take a chance. As of now, there is no incentive for guys to duke it out. Its horde or get horded and in my oppinion...getting worse everyday. Yes I can see fun in traveling with 50 of your buds conquering the skies, but what gets forgotten is the lone guys that have been here years and years AND the new guys that fly solo without a squad for a while. lets give them something to shoot for