Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Squire on January 29, 2011, 02:56:44 AM
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Available here:
http://ahevents.org/
CiCs and frame dates are:
Allied:
"68th Lightning Lancers" Frame 1 (Feb 4th 2011)
"The Gun Fighters" Frame 2 (Feb 11th 2011)
"VF-17" Frame 3 (Feb 18th 2011)
Axis:
"JG53" Frame 1 (Feb 4th 2011)
"JG77" Frame 2 (Feb 11th 2011)
"Duxford Wing RAF" Frame 3 (Feb 18th 2011)
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Squire~
Why the 6 gun package on the P-47's ?:headscratch: I can understand the light load out, but 6 guns is historically inaccurate. 8 guns was the universal package for P-47s until the M when they opted for 6 to save weight.
SW Pacific Thuderbolts had great success BnZing Imperial aircraft from altitude with close wingman support. They did not mix it up turn fighting and they did not eliminate guns for that purpose. If that advantage was lost they would use their superior speed to extend away. Respectfully, that detail should be corrected for this setup.
http://webpages.charter.net/jimdoss/12to1/GROSSHUESCH.htm
Thank you for putting this together, I've been hoping to see this scenario in FSO. Hoping my squad VF-15 will get to fly 47s my favorite bird in the next 3 frames.
Is rogerdees' 35FG 39FS going to be activated for this FSO? Its the only Pacific skin we have for the 47 in AHII, even though at that time they were OD w white tails until '44 when they introduced bare metal.
:salute
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Unless I am mistaken the skins are not something the CM's control. They are tied to the terrain loaded in the Special Events Arena (SEA).
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I'm pretty sure you are right daddog~ seems like we always just get the default skin in FSOs...
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Default Skins as in the Default Skin? Not any of the player created ones?
I can select any available player created skin in FSO, even when I create and join missions.
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You can call the 6 gun package a "play balance modifier" for this setup. I am aware that it normally would roll with 8 guns. Lets just say that the conditions on New Guinea are poor and the P-47 unit is having supply and maintenance issues. ;) Im sure if flown to its strengths it will do just fine with 6 x 50 cal guns. :salute
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Squire~
Why the 6 gun package on the P-47's ?:headscratch: I can understand the light load out, but 6 guns is historically inaccurate. 8 guns was the universal package for P-47s until the M when they opted for 6 to save weight.
SW Pacific Thuderbolts had great success BnZing Imperial aircraft from altitude with close wingman support. They did not mix it up turn fighting and they did not eliminate guns for that purpose. If that advantage was lost they would use their superior speed to extend away. Respectfully, that detail should be corrected for this setup.
http://webpages.charter.net/jimdoss/12to1/GROSSHUESCH.htm
Thank you for putting this together, I've been hoping to see this scenario in FSO. Hoping my squad VF-15 will get to fly 47s my favorite bird in the next 3 frames.
Is rogerdees' 35FG 39FS going to be activated for this FSO? Its the only Pacific skin we have for the 47 in AHII, even though at that time they were OD w white tails until '44 when they introduced bare metal.
:salute
Not trying to be a troll here. A lot of the Jug pilots used the six gun package for weight reduction. So that is self preference to the ppl who will fly them.
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You can call the 6 gun package a "play balance modifier" for this setup. I am aware that it normally would roll with 8 guns. Lets just say that the conditions on New Guinea are poor and the P-47 unit is having supply and maintenance issues. ;) Im sure if flown to its strengths it will do just fine with 6 x 50 cal guns.
:salute
IJA and IJN has 20mm cannon to balance "play" and AH's damage model for the beast doesn't adequately reflect the true durability of the 47, but I'm glad you feel it is necessary to hobble the Jug for a fair fight. :lol You could give the roman candles two lives to balance it instead :D
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Not trying to be a troll here. A lot of the Jug pilots used the six gun package for weight reduction. So that is self preference to the ppl who will fly them.
Historically that wasn't the case, and I think that's what we are going for in FSO vs MA free for alls.
The majority of my kills are in the D-11, I always fly 8 guns and the extra devastating punch in the quick snap shot is nice.
I haven't found reducing the number of guns to be very significant in performance gain trollranger :lol.
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Historically that wasn't the case, and I think that's what we are going for in FSO vs MA free for alls.
The majority of my kills are in the D-11, I always fly 8 guns and the extra devastating punch in the quick snap shot is nice.
I haven't found reducing the number of guns to be very significant in performance gain trollranger :lol.
You do the 8 guns, i do the six guns. the number of guns to be used in the P-47 is subjective among many jug dweebs like me.
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You do the 8 guns, i do the six guns. the number of guns to be used in the P-47 is subjective among many jug dweebs like me.
:devil Live long and prosper fellow jugdweeb :lol
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:devil Live long and prosper fellow jugdweeb :lol
:rofl :aok
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Frame 1 CiC confirmed :pray :salute
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The fact of the matter is many Jugs had 6 guns. This wasn't always up to the pilot. You flew what you had, you had to stay in formation, you probably all flew the same configuration. Even the early jugs often only had 6 guns adn 267 rpg. The standard loadout for 8 guns was often only 200 rpg. Some 6-gun setups went as high as 300 or in 1-2 cases I've seen 310 rpg on a 6-gun setup, but for the most part 267 was it.
The large ammo load was never used. I wish they're take it from the game. 425 rpg? Poppycock. 300 seems about the most (even that's the exception to the rule) and that only on the 6-gun setup.
Hitorically speaking 6 guns/267 rpg is the only accurate loadout currently on the jug.
P.S. In the PTO there was more than ever a desire to lessen weight. Early on they had no range, and every pound was that much less they could fly. Later when they had the range, they were over-burdened with late model Ds and then N models as well. They would load up 3 bombs, rockets, or rockets and DTs, or any combination. To counteract this heavily overloaded plane on rough unfinished landing strips as well as short runway and trees at the end, it was not uncommon to remove all but 2 guns and have a reduced ammo loadout for them. Even still, some of these ground pounders became aces.
You didn't need much to shoot down the Japanese craft. A hard fart and they'd keel over justabout. 8 guns was overkill and if the option was to remove 2 guns and half the ammo, and be able to fly 100 mi further and still down 10 enemies, it was worth it (vs having to turn back from lack of fuel)
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The fact of the matter is many Jugs had 6 guns. This wasn't always up to the pilot. You flew what you had, you had to stay in formation, you probably all flew the same configuration. Even the early jugs often only had 6 guns adn 267 rpg. The standard loadout for 8 guns was often only 200 rpg. Some 6-gun setups went as high as 300 or in 1-2 cases I've seen 310 rpg on a 6-gun setup, but for the most part 267 was it.
The large ammo load was never used. I wish they're take it from the game. 425 rpg? Poppycock. 300 seems about the most (even that's the exception to the rule) and that only on the 6-gun setup.
Hitorically speaking 6 guns/267 rpg is the only accurate loadout currently on the jug.
P.S. In the PTO there was more than ever a desire to lessen weight. Early on they had no range, and every pound was that much less they could fly. Later when they had the range, they were over-burdened with late model Ds and then N models as well. They would load up 3 bombs, rockets, or rockets and DTs, or any combination. To counteract this heavily overloaded plane on rough unfinished landing strips as well as short runway and trees at the end, it was not uncommon to remove all but 2 guns and have a reduced ammo loadout for them. Even still, some of these ground pounders became aces.
You didn't need much to shoot down the Japanese craft. A hard fart and they'd keel over justabout. 8 guns was overkill and if the option was to remove 2 guns and half the ammo, and be able to fly 100 mi further and still down 10 enemies, it was worth it (vs having to turn back from lack of fuel)
Do agree with you on historic aspect. On AH, only noobs in the jug would fly with a eight gun package.
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I would not say that.
8 guns is quite nice. Makes a glancing blow a killer shot.
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I would not say that.
8 guns is quite nice. Makes a glancing blow a killer shot.
It can make a quick kill, but performance of the P-47 can be affected negative by 8 gun package. to bad they never looked into putting 4 X 20 mm on instead of .50 cal.
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It can make a quick kill, but performance of the P-47 can be affected negative by 8 gun package. to bad they never looked into putting 4 X 20 mm on instead of .50 cal.
:rofl noob thread~ try 8 .50's if you long for 4 20mms. How about a Typhoon or 190 if you must have cannon!?
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The fact of the matter is many Jugs had 6 guns. This wasn't always up to the pilot. You flew what you had, you had to stay in formation, you probably all flew the same configuration. Even the early jugs often only had 6 guns adn 267 rpg. The standard loadout for 8 guns was often only 200 rpg. Some 6-gun setups went as high as 300 or in 1-2 cases I've seen 310 rpg on a 6-gun setup, but for the most part 267 was it.
The large ammo load was never used. I wish they're take it from the game. 425 rpg? Poppycock. 300 seems about the most (even that's the exception to the rule) and that only on the 6-gun setup.
Hitorically speaking 6 guns/267 rpg is the only accurate loadout currently on the jug.
P.S. In the PTO there was more than ever a desire to lessen weight. Early on they had no range, and every pound was that much less they could fly. Later when they had the range, they were over-burdened with late model Ds and then N models as well. They would load up 3 bombs, rockets, or rockets and DTs, or any combination. To counteract this heavily overloaded plane on rough unfinished landing strips as well as short runway and trees at the end, it was not uncommon to remove all but 2 guns and have a reduced ammo loadout for them. Even still, some of these ground pounders became aces.
You didn't need much to shoot down the Japanese craft. A hard fart and they'd keel over justabout. 8 guns was overkill and if the option was to remove 2 guns and half the ammo, and be able to fly 100 mi further and still down 10 enemies, it was worth it (vs having to turn back from lack of fuel)
Krusty~ I own 24 well refranced books just on P-47s. There are only 3 instances where less than 8 guns were used.
1) In stateside training and gunnery practice, when 4 guns were used
2) For P-47's based in Hawaii that intercepted Japaneese ballon bombs, when 2 guns were used
3) For P-47M's which had a 6 gun package for speed.
In the Pacific they extended range by adding fuel capacity, the early 47's in the theater had 200 gallon wing tanks produced by Ford motor Co. of Australia, and the obvious internal wing tanks in the N later. They never removed guns for that purpose. But please prove me wrong and find one credible source or account to the contrary. I will be stunned if you can.
In the case of the 425rpg, I never disputed that, that is pure fiction. Just over 300rpg is the most I can find cited.
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:rofl noob thread~ try 8 .50's if you long for 4 20mms. How about a Typhoon or 190 if you must have cannon!?
Should have been more clear on this. Used 20 mm for scarfing ground objects. There was a experimental 20mm wing mounted set for the P-47, the results where poor as it only care some 30 rounds each and to much drag.
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/p47_20mm_crop1.jpg)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/p47_34_20mm1.jpg)
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp20/skbluestem/p47_58_20mm1.jpg)
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Krusty~ I own 24 well refranced books just on P-47s. There are only 3 instances where less than 8 guns were used.
1) In stateside training and gunnery practice, when 4 guns were used
2) For P-47's based in Hawaii that intercepted Japaneese ballon bombs, when 2 guns were used
3) For P-47M's which had a 6 gun package for speed.
I believe you are correct on the P-47M, however I don't think the 6-gun option was as scarce as you say. Even early production models (not prototypes, not 1-offs) were tested to determine combat effectiveness with only 6 guns on board.
I started a thread on it here:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,297996.msg3810863.html#msg3810863
But the knee-jerk "don't touch my plane!"-style comments were getting too much. If you ignore those, the info is pretty interesting.
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Default Skins as in the Default Skin? Not any of the player created ones?
I can select any available player created skin in FSO, even when I create and join missions.
Yeah, but when the mission lifts, everyone in the mission gets the default skin regardless of what anyone chose in the hangar.
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Yeah, but when the mission lifts, everyone in the mission gets the default skin regardless of what anyone chose in the hangar.
There is a work around.
Create a mission and have your pilots join. Tell your pilots to then go to the hangar to arm and skin their aircraft with the same load out as the mission
Now, instead of launching with the mission when prompted. Tell your pilots to just launch from the correct spawn point. They can hit fighter, attack or ok once on the runway.
They will then retain the skin and load outs they chose and still be part of the mission.
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I believe you are correct on the P-47M, however I don't think the 6-gun option was as scarce as you say. Even early production models (not prototypes, not 1-offs) were tested to determine combat effectiveness with only 6 guns on board.
I started a thread on it here:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,297996.msg3810863.html#msg3810863
But the knee-jerk "don't touch my plane!"-style comments were getting too much. If you ignore those, the info is pretty interesting.
I have only ever seen one reference for a 325th P-40 in Tunisia with 2 .50s removed for a lighter more maneuverable 4 gun package~ the picture shows rags stuffed in the opening of the vacant gun bays.
I've read many accounts of P-47/51 pilots experiencing jammed guns in combat, so on the other hand I would imagine you would want to have as many chances as you could get when you made it onto your opponent's 6.
Quite a bit of good info in that thread too btw. Herschel Green of the 325th Checkertails, took down 2 109s and 4 Ju-52s on one mission but broke off on the 5th Ju-52 because he saw tracers indicating his last rounds when he in fact had a whole additional belt in each gun. He had borrowed someone else's plane who had the heavier loadout and he was not aware he had mor ammunition.
There is a work around.
Create a mission and have your pilots join. Tell your pilots to then go to the hangar to arm and skin their aircraft with the same load out as the mission
Now, instead of launching with the mission when prompted. Tell your pilots to just launch from the correct spawn point. They can hit fighter, attack or ok once on the runway.
They will then retain the skin and load outs they chose and still be part of the mission.
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There is a work around.
Create a mission and have your pilots join. Tell your pilots to then go to the hangar to arm and skin their aircraft with the same load out as the mission
Now, instead of launching with the mission when prompted. Tell your pilots to just launch from the correct spawn point. They can hit fighter, attack or ok once on the runway.
They will then retain the skin and load outs they chose and still be part of the mission.
I'll have to try that with my squad:aok Nice tip
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Basically you launch manually but are on misson vox, and I believe mission waypoints still show up on map. Works if you can coordinate everyone. Otherwise they pick whatever skin they want.
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Need JG 53's confirmation for CiC duty.