Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Sloehand on February 03, 2011, 10:20:01 PM
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I'm finally looking to buy a new computer. Mine is about 6-7 years old and was great while it was current.
I'm planning on something a little unique. I'm going to sort of build a three-in-one computer: Online Gaming, Business/Personal and old OS gaming. To do this I'm going to eschew the multiple internal hard drives, and/or the hard disk partition crap, and install a 3-into-2 backplane enclosure using two external 5 1/4 drive bays. I will then configure the boot drive to one of the three bays and swap out hard drives loaded with the particular OS and programs that I want. I'll use the other two bays for data backups and eventually dedicate one of them in a RAID setup.
The general idea is, I'll buy a small, fast raptor drive and load XP or Win7 on it with AH and nothing else. A completely clean and unencumbered Online Game machine. Then when I want to do work or otherwise browse the dirty old Internet, I'll load a different WinXP drive with all my business/personal programs, etc.
Finally, I have a lot of old games that I really enjoyed back when, but I've never been able to get XP to emulate Win95 or Win98 so that I could run them. As I still have all my OS'es, I figure to load one on another drive and load that as the boot drive when I'm up for some old time gaming.
So, anyone have a spoiler for this overall idea? Something I haven't considered. The backplane is simple. I currently use two external USB standalone bays for my data drive and backup drive, which is where I got the idea in the first place. Very easy to swap drives around.
Finally, since I haven't bought a new machine in years I'm trying to catch up with all the compatible tech, etc. on the fly. So I'm putting together a couple of possible configurations and I'd appreciate any input on better makers or models for any of the components for the roughly the same price, or if I've gone complete overboard on something that I don't need to, or if you see any compatibility issues. Mostly, nothing is hard and fast decided yet. Going for roughly a mid-to-upper range unit, and will be swapping in such things as my Creative X-Fi Elite soundboard. Cost is important of course, but not critical if I can really justify it. I want a stable, reliable screaming game machine for at least they first 3 months I own it. :aok
Below is my first generation Core i7 configuration. I'm also thinking of possibly a different configuration using the new second generation Core i7-2600K cpu, but I need to find out more about it. Seems very cost effective with high performace.
CONFIG #1
Cooler Master Storm Scout Case $90.00
Tagan ITZ800w PSU $180.00
ASUS Rampage III Formula Mobo $285.00
Intel Core i7 950 3.06Ghz $295.00
CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) $136.00
WD Raptor 74GB (1) $50.00
ICY DOCK MB973SP-B 3-in-2 Backplane Enclosure $85.00
PNY VCGGTX570XPB GeForce GTX 570 1.28GB GDDR5 SDRAM $335.00
LG SuperMulti DVD Drive $20.00
Total $1,476.00
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I dont know why you would go to the trouble of the icy dock when a typical motherboard can do everything you want without it. All you have to do is make a short stop in the bios and set the proper HD to have boot priority.
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Don't think you would even have to go in the Bios, my MB I use F12 ( I think or F8)on start up and takes me to boot options. I would think most MBs would have similar options.
(This may be what you meant)
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Like Catt say's, you will have boot options with that asus, that will be a nice setup! (my opinion) don't limit yourself on the dram, atleast get 1600 fsb, in case you want to turn some screws on it on down the road for OC'ing, the MB will compensate dram left in auto for stock processor settings.
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am wondering if you will be able to find MB / Utility Drivers for MB for the older Win95 / Win98 OS's since they have not been supported for such a long time
and isn't WinXP getting close to not being supported as well??? although should be no problem finding MB / MB utility drivers for this ASUS board or the newer boards
also, since you have Win7, have you checked to see how well Windows 7's win95/win98/Win2000/winME emulation works? is it any better than WinXP or WinVista???
how about just having winXP or windows7 and run the win95 and win98 (se) in VM ??? would this not be close to a full install of these older OS's???
also having so many different OS's be sure to check and install them all in the correct way, .... I know I recall there is a path you have to take in the correct order like starting with the older Win95 first, then add dual boot/multi OS boot and install win98 next, then win2000 or ME or winXP ... and you have to maintain the FAT32 file structure for 98 & winXP.... I don't remember about win95 or recall if it was FAT16 or if it indeed jumped up to FAT32 as well.....
just some random thoughts on using multi boot option with so many different OS's with such a larger time span ( OS life span )
I would be interested on how it all works out for you, getting it all set up to work with all the varying OS's . I thought the OS wrote back to the CMOS/BIOS, at least some small instructions anyway...... for the particular OS or I might be thinking bout the MBR & NDLR files......
Good Luck
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how about just having winXP or windows7 and run the win95 and win98 (se) in VM ??? would this not be close to a full install of these older OS's
Virtualization
VMWare, if I was to install older OS for gaming or whatever. This be the way I would go :aok.
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Those of you that are using the MB boot option (ESC/F8/F12) in order to change boot options... are you using RAID mode with your disks setup as JBODs (legacy mode I think recommended by Intel) or AHCI mode? Im using a bootable controller card so it has to be the BIOS.
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Mine is in AHCI mode.
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Those of you that are using the MB boot option (ESC/F8/F12) in order to change boot options... are you using RAID mode with your disks setup as JBODs (legacy mode I think recommended by Intel) or AHCI mode? Im using a bootable controller card so it has to be the BIOS.
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I was one of the guy's haveing problem's with Windows7-64bit and Aces High game, but it ended up being a bad OC on two SSD's in a raid-0 set-up, what a mess, lol. so I junked that and did'nt want my SSD's to go to waste,
Put Win7 on a WD Velocraptor and SSD, the WD is for normal web mess, and the SSD is used for only gameing and trackIR and a few things turned off, no you don't have to AHCI/RAID on start-up on Gigabyte boards, F12 give's a full boot menu from usb,cd/dvd,hd etc.ect. under HD it list the two and just pick one, and another thing,
if your on the ghetto home-premium stripped Windows-7 like I am, you don't get the virtual XP! and plus found out it does'nt like to game,
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Yes the Boot Option menu shows the individual hard drives of the bootable card I have but even when you select a hard drive it will boot to one on the MB controller. Evga suggests that will change with the next BIOS update.
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OK I gotcha, I have XP 32bit on another comp, i'll add it to the line up and boot from it to see what happen's, uh,oh lol, it's the same kind of MB,
I'll still try it,
It took it, I'm on the XP 32bit right now! got a few driver issues that im not gonna mess with, The MB this HD came out of has ATI vid card, he,he took a little while to scroll down the page,
you can set HD boot priority, it's only F12 during start up that gives choices,
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Was a shock to the XP HD, gonna have to re-validate it! he,he
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You may not have the emulator with Home Premium (I dont know) but you can get the virtual-pc with XP mode addon from Microsoft. Many older games that still cant work under Windows 7 will work with the virtual-pc and there is a version that comes without the XP mode.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx
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Talk to Tildeath
best advice I have
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Talk to Tildeath
best advice I have
He's done
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I appreciate all the input and comments. However, at the risk of seeming extremely stupid, I most cases, I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. :D
As for VM, I think I originally said I tried to get WinXP to emulate an earlier OS, Win98 in fact. Never worked and I'm sure I did something wrong, but couldn't figure out what. And that was quite awhile ago. As for the Mobo OS switching, as I also said its been or 7 years, or more since I last bought a machine or paid any real attention to what's out there. I know I don't know a tenth of what goes on technically any more, if I ever really did.
Full Disclosure - I once worked as a system administrator on UNIX token ring systems. Hated it, and it was only half as difficult to understand as Microsoft's stupid OS'es. I moved into systems analysis and UI development as quickly as I could. In truth, given good explanation, I understand technical issues, but am NOT a techie at heart. And ever since leaving sysadm, I've vowed to have as little to do with hardware as possible. Call it my personal blind spot. Oh, yea. I also worked for Microsoft as an analyst and project manager, in IT not the retail side. Most screwed up company and development concepts on the planet. Except for their business plan of selling a new version every 18 months with or without useful improvements, which even that they messup more often than not.
Without spending alot of time thinking about all this (or knowing about the MB OS switching), I figured that I could just swap hard drives in and out of a bootable external bay as easily as anything else. Everything, and only, what I wanted or needed with a particular OS would be on that drive and nothing else. This was especially important for keeping the AH game drive completely clean. No other programs or exposure to the Internet in any way. Seems simple enough, especially for my simple mind.
My biggest concern was that there might be a reason why this plan would NOT work. Or that my components were not compatible, or had a too short technical life expectancy. I used to get new computer every two years (when I had money) and this last time its be nearly 7 years. Too short and too long. I'd like my new machine to have decent performance life of 3 or 4 years if possible. Also, running older OS'es would be a nice extra, but is not critical. The real idea was to keep by business/personal side of computing, all the programs and the Internet separate from my AH gaming.
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Sloehand,
VMware verses right clicking on a program and clicking run in win98se compatibility mode ( otherwise emulating ) are (2) seperate things.......
VMware, allows you to actually run the complete Win95 os or complete win98 os with in WinXP or even Windows 7 as if you was actually only using either one of those 2 operating systems, in if I am correct "Full Fucntional Capacity".....
kind of like using Dameon Tools to make a "Virtual Hard Drive" in a sense, except it is a Virtual Operating system, that you can use to your hearts content with whatever games or programs you might want to be able to access...
Yes, the compatibility mode / emulator of WinXP is a "crap shoot" whether one can get it to work correctly or not.....
The biggest concern I would think you would run up against would be that each individual OS requires MB & MB/onboard utility drivers that may not interact with the individual operationg systems spanning such a lengthy developement timeline.....
also the FAT16 / FAT32 / NTFS file structure limitations..... once you hit Windows 7, may be a bigger concern trying to have so many different OS's using and even recognizing/sharing the same Motherboard BIOS/CMOS....
note: I am going on old memory here though..... knowing you are going to be swapping them out, using "hot swappable Hard Drives" with a removable connection that connects via IDE to USB ( they make adaptor Boxes ) might be a way......and setting the MB to boot from USB Device
er set Boot Up Option to check the USB Device 1st, then any toher particular Hard Drvies in sequential order as you would want .... this way you could install the Win95 loaded HD in the adaptor box IDE to USB and boot up in Win95, or install the win98 and do the same. leave the HD's out completely so it just scans thru and jumps to the next bootable OS of WinXP or win 7 ( but both these would have to be in NTFS file structure )
I seriously would like to see if you could make this work with the win95 thru Win 7 OS's all on the same system...... but figured VMware might be the best bet of all.... with a dual booting WinXP / Win 7 setup ( this could be all on the same HD with partitions or 2 seperate HD's then RAID setup )
the other thing would be the MBR ( Master Boot Record ).......
Microsoft lists how to go about setting up old OS's and newer ones and in what sequence of order to do so. but the limiting factor on this is gonna be the FAT32 vs NTFS file structure situation, I believe
as I said. I am going from "old memory" of this stuff. so don't take everything I have posted to be "Exact truth"......
I don't even have access to my main PC ( HD's ) with my pc/pc components/ OS setup info . so anything I have posted, I would have to go search again and post the links to point you in the right direction. but at MSDNtech and Ms website.. you can find the info.... or if you need help , holler and I will retrieve it for you to help you....
hope this helps ( GEEZ, sorry I wrote a wall of text. got carried away there )
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OK, I re-read what you wrote
your best bet, since it is not critical about the win95/win98
would be to use a dual boot setup....... or maybe even multi-boot
work - partiton or HD - either win7 or winXP
personal - partiton or HD - either win7 or winXP
gaming - partiton or HD - either win7 or winXP
and then use XPmode on Windows 7 ( if available ) or VMware utility to access / load win95 and/or win98 for your older stuff on your Personal HD/partition
this should allow your New PC to be able to accomadate everything you are wanting to accomplish
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That last sounds like the ticket. I mostly want to keep the AH gaming environment "clean", no other internet traffic or programs beyond AH. I can then try the VMWare from my personal environment.
If I run both in XP (or less likely Win7) I shouldn't have file type issues. At least between those two environments.
Did I mention I don't like Win7 or the latest Office Suite. Microsoft giveth user options and customization ability, and Microsoft taketh away user options and customization ability. I wonder when the world will wake up, fully? :rofl
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I used VMWare running a XP OS. In vmware I ran server 2003, XPpro,Windows 7,Ubuntu. Never had problems. The earlier version of vmware is easier to setup and run. I think version 1.
I have heard of 98 and 95 being run in vmware.
If you decide to go this route.
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I used VMWare running a XP OS. In vmware I ran server 2003, XPpro,Windows 7,Ubuntu. Never had problems. The earlier version of vmware is easier to setup and run. I think version 1.
I have heard of 98 and 95 being run in vmware.
If you decide to go this route.
Vmware is suitable for business applications I would be really surprised to see AH2 run more than 10 fps on it.
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Vmware is suitable for business applications I would be really surprised to see AH2 run more than 10 fps on it.
He was talkin about running his 98 or 95 windows OS for old games, if you would read the thread. ;). What I said had nothing to running AH in VMWare.
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Yes I read him to be saying he would load XP or Win 7 with AH only. The virtual pc with XP mode idea was so he could continue to use his old Office software instead of the newer stuff from upgrades of every 18 months over the span of 7-10 years (whatever that works out to). I know exactly what he means because I used to write lisp routines in Wordstar on a machine that still runs some very old DOS and Windows 98 even though I havent started it in months.
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WOW! Man you guy's are really old! he,he. sloehand, not knowing too much bout the older DLL Hell OS. he,he I might know a little, but what ever make's you comfortable with you setup, cool thing about it, if you get tired of plug and play you can hookem up all at once, no biggie! Now your not gonna be useing the ole IDE ribbin HD are you, that would be keeping it a little too real! lol