Vinkman,
If it was the fight that started around 10-12 K and rolled down eventually to the deck, then I believe that was me in the Hurri your commenting on....I was banged up pretty bad, then the horde of Axis got involved and I think I luckily killed one or two, but ultimately succumbed. Just so you know, I had 27 rounds out of 1300, most of which I thought I put on you and yet you didn't go down. I was thinking the same thing you note in your post, but from the Allieds side. Good fighting though :salute
what do you have your convergence set to? i pushed mine out to 375 and was able to get a good concentration of fire on target...it did take a lot of hits to knock parts off the hurricane i flew in one sortie...i eventually lost half a wing
on the flip side i noticed it took a good bit of ammo at close range to damage the 109s...several times i put a heavy burst around the cockpit, to the point it looked like 20mm hits (from my viewpoint) only to have the same 109 come back to shoot me down...
Convergence was set to 450.
what do you have your convergence set to? i pushed mine out to 375 and was able to get a good concentration of fire on target...it did take a lot of hits to knock parts off the hurricane i flew in one sortie...i eventually lost half a wing
on the flip side i noticed it took a good bit of ammo at close range to damage the 109s...several times i put a heavy burst around the cockpit, to the point it looked like 20mm hits (from my viewpoint) only to have the same 109 come back to shoot me down...
Convergence was set to 450. I had that same thing happen with a hurri.. I got on his 6 in a fresh plane. Empltied my guns into him at very respectible hit % and ran out of bullets, at which point he flat turned around the circle until I had to exit and shot me down from my six at 400 ydrs, after emptying him guns into me for the next 3-5 minutes.
That was when I quit. :cry :lol
This might be your problem.
"Snip"
-oldman
Here's a learning tool for you, Vinkman: Only fire the cannons by themselves. You're seeing MG17 hit sprites and thinking they are 20mm hits. If you only fire cannons you'll only see cannon hits.
but how far away are they when you hit them? if you're hitting them at D500, you don't have much energy left in the rounds that are hitting, so they're not doing as much damage as if they wefre only D200/
I try to hit them tween 200 and 400, with most hits scoring at about 400 yds. It's pretty hard to keep fire on a twisty turny hurri at 200 or less. You end up pulsing bursts into him.
i dont shoot til i see the whites of their eyes........oh wait! thats a HO, nevermind! carry on!
I try to hit them tween 200 and 400, with most hits scoring at about 400 yds. It's pretty hard to keep fire on a twisty turny hurri at 200 or less. You end up pulsing bursts into him.
double check yourself in your films. they're very useful in the other arenas....and even moreso here. you may think you're hitting at 400, but it may actually be 600. in the film viewer, the icons are defaulted to on, even though they're off in the arena.
i'm not tryin to be a wise ass.....just tryin to help ya out. :aok
I was taking it as trying to help :aok
Also did you see I linked up my TrackIR setup file in one of these treads for you. I think you may find it helpfull with the looking backward, and other issues you may still be having with the Tracker. :salute
yes, i did see that, and thank you very much sir!!!
you put it in the crazy8s helping cap thread. gonna download it tonight.
But for real I have my guns on the Hurri set to 400, little far but thats what works for me. and If ya get in close ya just get to shoot at both his wings at the same time. :devil
I took down 3x B-17s in a 109E once (an entire formation) and had almost 30 rounds left over after the fact.
krusty, i don't believe the mg/ffm was noted for it's range or hitting power...hence the main reason it was replaced by the mg 151/15 and subsequently the mg 151/20...on the other hand, weren't the hurricane mk1's produced with wooden frames and fabric covering the fuselage? if it's modelled that way in ah, that would explain some of the low damage from the mg/ffm shells...it's been documented that the explosive shell wasn't as effective against the early hurricanes as it was against the all metal aircraft.
krusty, i don't believe the mg/ffm was noted for it's range or hitting power...hence the main reason it was replaced by the mg 151/15 and subsequently the mg 151/20...on the other hand, weren't the hurricane mk1's produced with wooden frames and fabric covering the fuselage? if it's modelled that way in ah, that would explain some of the low damage from the mg/ffm shells...it's been documented that the explosive shell wasn't as effective against the early hurricanes as it was against the all metal aircraft.
Regardless, from personal opinion I think the hurricane is a bit tougher than the spitfire1 (in-game, I mean). So I think that's already accounted for.absolutely agreed...
The wooden vulnerability of the Hurricane is another myth that goes around. I don't think I really believe that one. I think it's possible some rounds went through just making a hole, but then some 20mm rounds in WW2 were solid AP rounds. Some were tracers. Some were duds. Not all exploded. Looking at other wooden planes, 20mms had no problems bringing them down if they landed hits. I tend to think that's more wishful thinking than actual fact.not so sure about that...anectdotal evidence aside that is
What is "range"? For the MG17s the effective range is really 150 yards. MG/FFm were good out to 400 and more. Yes, the accuracy got worse, the further out. BUT, if you hit you killed the target, whereas the MG17s did not. It was a major step upward, and one the RAF would mimick quickly. The BOB proved one thing: rifle caliber Mgs didn't bring down planes fast enough or at long enough range. All nations would move past this armament at some point.i dunno krusty...the 7.92mm mauser round is/was known to maintain supersonic velocity out to 1000m using the standard 192gr ball ammo...150 yards seems a bit short considering baseline infantry combat range was 300 to 500 yards and the mg17 had a longer barrel than the basic infantry rifle (kar98) which greatly improved its range and accuracy...similar to the mg42 machine gun.
i dunno krusty...the 7.92mm mauser round is/was known to maintain supersonic velocity out to 1000m using the standard 192gr ball ammo...150 yards seems a bit short considering baseline infantry combat range was 300 to 500 yards and the mg17 had a longer barrel than the basic infantry rifle (kar98) which greatly improved its range and accuracy...similar to the mg42 machine gun.
...um...where are you getting this, gyrene? I show 8x57 as less than 1300 fps at 500 yards, really doubt that it was 1100 or more at 1000.well...among others...this is one reference i found back when i was still doing weapons modding for CoD...the luftwaffe version of the 7.92 used the same weight projectile but had a higher velocity than the standard infantry rifle round but i think the ballistics shown are still valid...
- oldman
well...among others...this is one reference i found back when i was still doing weapons modding for CoD...the luftwaffe version of the 7.92 used the same weight projectile but had a higher velocity than the standard infantry rifle round but i think the ballistics shown are still valid...
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ww2-general/scoped-k98k-mosin-nagant-range-13601-6.html
and one i used as a starting point...
http://www.weaponwiki.org/7.92x57_mm_Mauser_Specs
Ahh, you were using fpm... I see. I thought you were saying 1100 m/s!!!!:lol i admit to being a real dummy at times but...sheesh... :confused:
You might be thinking of the older Gladiator frame, or the ancient Swordfish...
While the Hurricane did have a tube frame, that's not the only thing it had. The forward tubes were hidden under the metal skin. The aft tubes had to supply not only rigidity but structures. They had to prevent sagging (if the tail sags, all of a sudden the stabilizers are at a different angle, cables sag and all of a sudden elevators no longer work, etc). They had to withstand Gs and violent manuvers as well as hard landings.
It's not like they were just a hollow box frame. For example:
(http://www.spitfirespares.com/spitfirespares.com/Website%20Products%20107/Frame%20Hurricane%20fusilage%20picture.jpg)
To show you how busy the inside of this thing was:
(http://www.spitfirespares.com/spitfirespares.com/Website%20Products%20107/Frame%20top%20in%20Hurricane.jpg)
The outer ribs actually were part of the reinforcements:
(http://www.spitfirespares.com/spitfirespares.com/Website%20products%20131/Hurriace%20fusilarg%20A.jpg)
I don't know about you, but that's a LOT of stuff for a cannon round to hit, and it's so densely packed that any cannon round will do a lot of damage.
Whether that damage meant the tail came off, or the tail stayed on -- that's another story (i.e. B17s were known to make it back with astounding damage, same might be true for Hurricanes). However, I doubt the myth that "rounds passed through the fabric tail" or "failed to detonate in the soft wood" -- there's too much for that to happen IMO. Too much to go wrong with any amount of damage.
There's a reason everybody switched to metal skin. It was stronger and took up less space and weight in most cases.
EDIT: But this is all a side-track to the original post... Sorry.