Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Melvin on February 09, 2011, 07:40:48 AM
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Well, the time has finally arrived. My subscription to Norton will be over in a couple days. :rock
So here's my questions for how to handle the situation on my XP machine.
A) How do I get rid of this p.o.s. program from my machine. I mean I want it totally gone.
B) This is where I take recommendations for new AV software. Freeware is preferred, but I'll consider paying if it can be proven that said software is bulletproof and uber wonderbar.
Thanks in advance folks.
Salute, Melvin
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Do the uninstall via control panel first. Then GOOGLE nonav.exe (it's free) I don't know if it's still works for the newer versions, but at one time it removed all the registry entries and leftover files that weren't un installed by the OS. As far as I'm concerned, there is no reason not to use one of the freeware products for home use. There are a number of them out there..my suggestion would be to Google "free anti virus" and make a selection.
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ESET Nod32 Antivirus 4,worth every penny.
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Well, the time has finally arrived. My subscription to Norton will be over in a couple days. :rock
So here's my questions for how to handle the situation on my XP machine.
A) How do I get rid of this p.o.s. program from my machine. I mean I want it totally gone.
B) This is where I take recommendations for new AV software. Freeware is preferred, but I'll consider paying if it can be proven that said software is bulletproof and uber wonderbar.
Thanks in advance folks.
Salute, Melvin
regarding A:
to be absolutely positive that your Norton AV is completely removed with out any doubts, you will most likely have to reformat and reinstall your Windows XP OS..... although, their are some utility programs out there like "Your Un-Installer" and such which claim to completely remove all traces of a program you want removed from your PC, including left over short cut links, Registery entries, folders etc....
regarding B:
You say you might consider paying for an AntiVirus program if it can be proven to be "bullet proof"....... when it comes to the internet, anti virus programs, firewalls, etc... nothing is "Bullet Proof"..... some programs just work better than others
I would recommend purchasing "ESET Smart Security 4" , I would shy away from the free AV programs.....
best of luck to ya
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Best solution is to use OSX or linux for any daily browsing and dedicate XP/win7 only for games. That's what I do.
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What Ripley says is spot on. For removing Norton - there are tools on the symantec site to remove its progs/apps - whether they fully remove it or not is up for debate.
Eset nod 4 would be my recommendation - if you want to pay for it.
Freebies - avast/avg seem to be the most popular - but may interfere with your game playing.
Wurzel
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Best solution is to use OSX or linux for any daily browsing and dedicate XP/win7 only for games. That's what I do.
Amen. Takes a little work to get everything set up. But the results are worth it.
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What Ripley says is spot on. For removing Norton - there are tools on the symantec site to remove its progs/apps - whether they fully remove it or not is up for debate.
Eset nod 4 would be my recommendation - if you want to pay for it.
Freebies - avast/avg seem to be the most popular - but may interfere with your game playing.
Wurzel
Add to the freebies list Microsoft Security Essentials (http://www.microsoft.com/security_essentials/). Lightweight and a very good reputation in efficiency.
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I have eset nod 32 and it works great for me
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If you can find an old copy of Symantec Anti-Virus 10.1 (The commercial version of Norton) that's what I recommend... well a combination of that and safe browsing habits.
SAV 10.1 doesn't work with Vista/7 but works great (and is still supported) with XP. It's also exactly the opposite of the consumer product (Norton) in the way that it is lightweight and very efficient.
10.2 (which IS compatible with Vista/7) is when their corporate software started to become bloated just like their consumer software, so that I wouldn't recommend.
I found it HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Symantec-Antivirus-Corporate-Wrkstns-Servers/dp/B000I4UR24/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297308754&sr=8-1) at amazon.
This is what I use on my XP machines. On my Win7 machines I use Avast antivirus. I've heard it's not the best antivirus software out there, but it's free and still reasonably lightweight. Personally I feel that safe browsing habits works much better than any antivirus software ever will. All I know is that I've had zero issues with anything slipping past Avast.
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If you can find an old copy of Symantec Anti-Virus 10.1 (The commercial version of Norton) that's what I recommend... well a combination of that and safe browsing habits.
SAV 10.1 doesn't work with Vista/7 but works great (and is still supported) with XP. It's also exactly the opposite of the consumer product (Norton) in the way that it is lightweight and very efficient.
10.2 (which IS compatible with Vista/7) is when their corporate software started to become bloated just like their consumer software, so that I wouldn't recommend.
I found it HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Symantec-Antivirus-Corporate-Wrkstns-Servers/dp/B000I4UR24/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297308754&sr=8-1) at amazon.
This is what I use on my XP machines. On my Win7 machines I use Avast antivirus. I've heard it's not the best antivirus software out there, but it's free and still reasonably lightweight. Personally I feel that safe browsing habits works much better than any antivirus software ever will. All I know is that I've had zero issues with anything slipping past Avast.
:aok i use 10.1 on my Vista laptop. works very well.
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Best solution is to use OSX or linux for any daily browsing and dedicate XP/win7 only for games. That's what I do.
But there is malware for OSX and it requires the same level of user interaction to get infected as Windows 7 or Vista. Only difference malware updates are far and few between for OSX as they are released in Apple updates.
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After years, I've decided that I have found no use in anti-virus software. They are bloated and inefficient software that often causes more performance problems than anything else. A good browser (Firefox is my preference) and perhaps spybot search and destroy are the only two things you should ever need (I don't even have spybot installed anymore).
Surf smart, don't download CRAP (toolbars, etc.), pay attention to what program installers are doing (if there is a checkbox, read what it's doing, more often than not it's trying to install something else), and most importantly, don't install something unless it's from a credible source (opening .exe's from co-worker and/or family e-mails are not considered a credible source). Actually good rule of thumb: don't open executable that come in e-mails.
A company came to me that was having tons of computer issues. After reformatting the computers, installing firefox, and not allowing the standard user the ability to install anything, problems went to zero. You should see some of the stuff I find in the "downloads" folder of the computers. Apparently they are still trying to install stuff... Thank god they can't.
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That's just the wrong approach to take. There are a number of VERY good AV programs out there. Leaving yourself open won't help. It's a fact of computing life these days.
I would avoid Symantec.... It's the same rubbish as Norton. Won't stop a stiff fart in the wind, let alone most viruses.
Avast or Eset. One of those. Your choice.
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That's just the wrong approach to take. There are a number of VERY good AV programs out there. Leaving yourself open won't help. It's a fact of computing life these days.
I would avoid Symantec.... It's the same rubbish as Norton. Won't stop a stiff fart in the wind, let alone most viruses.
Avast or Eset. One of those. Your choice.
You say it like you have some authority on what the right approach is.
I've been virus, anti-virus, and software problem free for 8 years, I think my approach is working just fine.
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Viruses hide in many formats. I've had a couple infiltrate my PC hidden inside valid PDF files, believe it or not.
I don't install toolbars. I don't allow java (I do allow selected javascripting). I customized all my security settings. I don't install files, I don't allow automatic downloads.
I still get a virus or two. Why? Because I actually USE my computer. I use it for research. I go to webpages I've never been to before (and I'm fairly smart about how I do it). I'm fairly careful when it comes to this sort of thing and yet it still happens once in a long while. It's all well and fine to not have AV software if you never plan on using the PC for anything. Otherwise it's an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. With some of the very low-resource-requiring AV programs there's no real reason not to have some basic level of free protection. Avast free home edition, for example.
My first experience with a virus was probably 20 years ago. Since then I've had enough experience to say with some certainty that you will only be safe from a virus if you isolate the computer from the rest of the world (that includes the Internet, intranet, LAN, everything), and never bring files in or take files out on any medium of any type. It makes for boring computing, though.
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It is quite possible to run a computer without any anti-xxxx software and never have to deal with viruses/worms/malware.....
I do it. I have never owned any of that software. It takes discipline and a correctly configured computer. If you shutdown the delivery mechanisms and never open attachments, it is quite easy (relatively speaking) to avoid the mess.
I have been on the Internet since the ARPANET days (around 30 years now) and have never had to deal with a virus. I use the Internet everyday. However, I would never recommend my configuration to anyone as I am quite happy to never see anything on Youtoob (as an example).
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Krusty, I watch you underestimate people's intelligence and knowledge all day on this forum. You assume I don't do any of the same things you do on a daily basis. I research, use bittorrent, download programs , administer servers among other things daily. In fact, any virus worth anything has the ability to effectively cripple any anti-virus software. I firmly believe anti-virus programs give a false sense of security, and that's when people start having problems.
Next time you post, make sure you post your opinion as an opinion, not as a "proven" fact. If you don't agree with my opinion, fine, but acting like you know better is just a good way to piss people off.
On that note, I've said all I need to say about this, wont be posting here again.
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I've been browsing without anti-(insert name here) software for nearly two years. Not a single problem. As has been said, discipline, safe browsing habits, and scrutiny is required.
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SectorNine50, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings on the matter. You must have known you are an exception to the rule. Otherwise you would not have qualified your "I don't use AV" with a long explanation of how you get away without using AV. For the vast majority of people in the world and on the Internet, educated or uneducated, you must have known that you were not a normal sample with regards to AV use.
That said, you brought it up. Fair enough. Why? Bragging, providing an alternative view, whatever... they're all valid and I won't look down on ya for posting about it. However, implying it's the route to go for normal Internet users is wrong.
Unless you're going to preface it with "Now, if you can restrict how and where you go on the Internet, go without a number of things you may be used to, if you can operate a machine with total discipline, I have an alternative that might work" then you are the one that has not taken into account others' experiences and knowledge.
I fully well can appreciate your knowledge and expertise, as well as Skuzzy's (note, he's made a similar claim). However, if Skuzzy came out and said "you all shouldn't use AV. It's a waste. Just don't do anything, stop doing this, disable that, etc" I would have chimed in on him just as easily as I did on you. It's nothing personal, you're just wrong with regards to how most of the world uses and abuses the Internet.
For most people it would be highly advisable to have a good AV software. REGARDLESS of how they operate. For the few that can operate without, more power to them. They are not the majority, nor are they typical.
I do not mean to cast doubts upon your ability or expertise. Your advise, nonetheless, is still bad for most people on this forum.
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Unfortunately, I have to post again.
SectorNine50, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings on the matter. You must have known you are an exception to the rule. Otherwise you would not have qualified your "I don't use AV" with a long explanation of how you get away without using AV. For the vast majority of people in the world and on the Internet, educated or uneducated, you must have known that you were not a normal sample with regards to AV use.
A) Never hurt my feelings, I don't care if someone disagrees, just stop posting like you are the authority on the matter. Post your opinion, feel free to debate, but my god man, don't say "you are wrong" when I, and others have evidence that it is not as ridiculous as it sounds!
B) I do not think I am an exception to any rule. Like I said, my personal belief is that people have been lulled into the false security of anti-virus programs being secure all the time every time. This is what gets people into trouble more than anything! I cannot count how many times I've had someone come to me with a virus saying "I thought my anti-virus would catch it if it were bad." However, it does only take once for people to understand that anti-virus isn't invulnerable, so I suppose that is the learning curve.
That said, you brought it up. Fair enough. Why? Bragging, providing an alternative view, whatever... they're all valid and I won't look down on ya for posting about it. However, implying it's the route to go for normal Internet users is wrong.
Bragging? No. Alternative view, absolutely. The bolded is another "authoritative" statement, watch out for those.
Unless you're going to preface it with "Now, if you can restrict how and where you go on the Internet, go without a number of things you may be used to, if you can operate a machine with total discipline, I have an alternative that might work" then you are the one that has not taken into account others' experiences and knowledge.
And I quote:
"Surf smart, don't download CRAP (toolbars, etc.), pay attention to what program installers are doing (if there is a checkbox, read what it's doing, more often than not it's trying to install something else), and most importantly, don't install something unless it's from a credible source (opening .exe's from co-worker and/or family e-mails are not considered a credible source). Actually good rule of thumb: don't open executable that come in e-mails."
I fully well can appreciate your knowledge and expertise, as well as Skuzzy's (note, he's made a similar claim). However, if Skuzzy came out and said "you all shouldn't use AV. It's a waste. Just don't do anything, stop doing this, disable that, etc" I would have chimed in on him just as easily as I did on you. It's nothing personal, you're just wrong with regards to how most of the world uses and abuses the Internet.
Never once did I say you should stop. I said I decided that it was a waste. If you really want to nit-pick into what I said, this is the one time I used the word "you":
"A good browser (Firefox is my preference) and perhaps spybot search and destroy are the only two things you should ever need (I don't even have spybot installed anymore)."
Could have been:
"A good browser (Firefox is my preference) and perhaps spybot search and destroy are the only two things I ever need (I don't even have spybot installed anymore)."
For most people it would be highly advisable to have a good AV software. REGARDLESS of how they operate. For the few that can operate without, more power to them. They are not the majority, nor are they typical.
I do not mean to cast doubts upon your ability or expertise. Your advise, nonetheless, is still bad for most people on this forum.
The bold is how you could have responded first.
The italics are how you actually responded. No one person's idea is bad, lay down information, let people decide for themselves.
When you reply to an opinion like this:
That's just the wrong approach to take. There are a number of VERY good AV programs out there. Leaving yourself open won't help. It's a fact of computing life these days.
I would avoid Symantec.... It's the same rubbish as Norton. Won't stop a stiff fart in the wind, let alone most viruses.
Avast or Eset. One of those. Your choice.
People will get pissed.
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...On that note, I've said all I need to say about this, wont be posting here again.
Next time, let me be the liaison. ;)
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Next time, let me be the liaison. ;)
I know... :bhead
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I would avoid Symantec.... It's the same rubbish as Norton. Won't stop a stiff fart in the wind, let alone most viruses. Avast or Eset. One of those. Your choice.
Aside from the arguments on whether or not A/V software is really needed, how about you post some proof that Symantec is any worse than Avast?
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I use eset, I am carefull about which sites i go to. have firefox with lots of addon for extra security. when searching info on pages I dont know, then i use sandie box.
true you can get away without using an anti-virus then again you gotta be in skuzzy mode :D. anti-virus programs do give a false sense of security to some people. then again they look to go into bittorrent and d/l every single program/movie/crap out there. I always said, nothing is free, except sex and for that we have the free clinic :bolt:.
semp
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I've been running for almost 3 years now with just Threatfire, no antivirus. I've had one virus in that time, threatfire popped up and said it was suspect, I said, no I know what I'm doing, well there was a virus hidden in the .exe file I was running and I ended up reformating. So now when Threatfire says quarantine, I do.
But as skuzzy said it takes control.
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You have always a v i r u s when you use an anti-v i r u s and you don't know how it works!
If i think how much time some anti-v i r u s scan
hard drives - some of them do this with no pause - I became mad!
:salute
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Well, I had Norton for ~4 years and never really had any problems with it, other than it's appetite for resources. I decided to go with the ESET NOD32 and have had it for about 15 days.
This morning I went to log on and found that something had completely taken over my computer. None of my exe.'s would work. I literally could do nothing so I turned it off.
I've since fired it up in Safe mode and then did a system restore to a point a few weeks ago. So far I can run like normal. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that this spyware is still lurking somewhere.
Gonna order a new HDD from newegg and try and dig up a good copy of XP.
I hate hackers.
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You do not own the CD key. The only legal way to obtain a copy of a Microsoft operating system is to get it from Microsoft.
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Aside from the arguments on whether or not A/V software is really needed, how about you post some proof that Symantec is any worse than Avast?
First... Wow sector went off the deep end, no?
Second... Tigger: Personal experience. For many years growing up my family had Norton and Symantec on our systems. Many times we had to live with an annoying (but innocuous) virus that popped up messages because the AV couldn't get rid of it. Even later in recent years I knew the difference and moved away. Personal anecdote: My mother had 2 viruses that her up to date and modern copy of Norton couldn't quarantine, clean, remove, or do anything about. It would try and fail repeatedly. She called me in. Simply shutting down Norton and installing AVG Free edition (even without internet updates) easily found, cleaned, and removed the viruses.
At her request I uninstalled Norton (as best I could at the time without a reformat) and she's avoided it since.
That's just one of several similar stories. I get tasked to reformat my family's PCs or just update certain things and upkeep, and over time I've moved them all to better AV software. They're all happier and better off. All have had some viruses at some point and more than once when I installed simple, basic, AVG Free edition it would find something hiding that Norton or Symantec couldn't even spot. They've also since learned the usefulness of spybot and adaware through my prodding.
So the evidence is plain to anybody that's used Symantec or Norton for 10 years or so like I have. The software doesn't cut the mustard. It's a massive bloatware that does next to nothing. They only stop the beginner AOL script kiddie viruses.
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First... Wow sector went off the deep end, no?
I'd like to apologize for that comment. I was rushed and chose my words poorly. Regardless of my opinion of Sector's reply, it wasn't deserving of that.
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this is an old post that has been resurected. just let it die guys :bolt:.
semp
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First... Wow sector went off the deep end, no?
Second... Tigger: Personal experience. For many years growing up my family had Norton and Symantec on our systems. Many times we had to live with an annoying (but innocuous) virus that popped up messages because the AV couldn't get rid of it. Even later in recent years I knew the difference and moved away. Personal anecdote: My mother had 2 viruses that her up to date and modern copy of Norton couldn't quarantine, clean, remove, or do anything about. It would try and fail repeatedly. She called me in. Simply shutting down Norton and installing AVG Free edition (even without internet updates) easily found, cleaned, and removed the viruses.
At her request I uninstalled Norton (as best I could at the time without a reformat) and she's avoided it since.
That's just one of several similar stories. I get tasked to reformat my family's PCs or just update certain things and upkeep, and over time I've moved them all to better AV software. They're all happier and better off. All have had some viruses at some point and more than once when I installed simple, basic, AVG Free edition it would find something hiding that Norton or Symantec couldn't even spot. They've also since learned the usefulness of spybot and adaware through my prodding.
So the evidence is plain to anybody that's used Symantec or Norton for 10 years or so like I have. The software doesn't cut the mustard. It's a massive bloatware that does next to nothing. They only stop the beginner AOL script kiddie viruses.
I was talking about Symantec AV Corporate Edition... the latest version before it became bloatware as well. Using the Corporate version of the software, I have experienced the complete opposite of what you've encountered. I've seen it catch things that other AV software didn't. I can also tell you from experience that it uses the least amount of system resources and is probably the most lightweight AV solution I've seen to date (Mind you this is Version 10.1 of Symantec AV which is a lightweight corporate solution and NOT a complete package like Norton/Symantec consumer products which are worth slightly less than the free AOL disks that everyone used to hand out).
Regardless, both of our opinions are strictly anecdoctal and neither of us have any facts to support our cases. I supposed I could probably dig up some statistics (for what they are worth) but the truth is that there is no one "bulletproof" solution like what the OP was asking for. All we can hope for is that the OP read this thread and learned from it, especially the parts where an ounce of securing your computer and practicing safe browsing habits is worth a pound of any AV software solution.
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this is an old post that has been resurected. just let it die guys :bolt:.
semp
Yeah, I was simply looking for some advice from the more tech savvy members of the community.
But since it's degraded into a pissing match, just forget it.
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Corporate versions of any anti-virus software is nowhere near the same as the consumer versions of the product.
McAfee has a very good reputation in the corporate world (good enough that Intel decided to buy them), but the consumer product is one of the worst there is.
The consumer products from Norton and McAfee are not any better than the viruses they are reported to protect your computer from. I deal with the issues they create everyday.
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Corporate versions of any anti-virus software is nowhere near the same as the consumer versions of the product.
McAfee has a very good reputation in the corporate world (good enough that Intel decided to buy them), but the consumer product is one of the worst there is.
The consumer products from Norton and McAfee are not any better than the viruses they are reported to protect your computer from. I deal with the issues they create everyday.
What AV do HTC use?
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You do not own the CD key. The only legal way to obtain a copy of a Microsoft operating system is to get it from Microsoft.
Interesting...
My understanding had been that you may use any Windows installation CD as long as you had obtained the key legally, used it on the same computer (if it has already been installed), and that the CD key was proof of this.
Went back and did some research, and you are allowed to make a copy of the disk. I understood that initially as the CD you installed from didn't matter. However, after more digging, it seems that the CD can be copied into an ISO only for personal use. You may not give that ISO to anyone else, even if they have a legal CD key.
Sorry for my misunderstanding and I apologize for posting that.
I suppose you learn something new every day!
And just because your "experienced" co-workers say it's fine... Doesn't always mean it's really fine...
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Gentlemen, after re-reading this thread I've come away with a wealth of knowledge.
I saved all of my essentials to an external drive and re-loaded XP to my HDD using my own key.
I've decided that the info contained herein will guide me on my AV dealing.
Thank you all for the input.
Now, if I could only figure out how to organize my computer so that it would behave more efficiantly...
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Used to use AVG Free but after last year the free edition sucks, Upgraded to Internet Security 2011 by them, Never happier, With AVG, ZoneAlarm Pro, and a filter program (Kids) my computer still runs excellent and can run 99% of my programs with no lag or problems.
Anti-Virus: AVG Internet Security 2011 (Dont use AVG Firewall it does suck)
FireWall: ZoneAlarm Pro
Spyware: Spybot S&D, HiJackThis
Filter Software: BlueCoat K9 (Free and really configurable)
Oh btw been using AVG 7 years with no problems to date.
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Silat informed me of AVG a few years back and it free. is there something wrong with that? Ive had NO problems with it or my computer AND it's NOT a recourse hog.
www.free.avg.com <--I think :angel:
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Interesting...
My understanding had been that you may use any Windows installation CD as long as you had obtained the key legally, used it on the same computer (if it has already been installed), and that the CD key was proof of this.
Went back and did some research, and you are allowed to make a copy of the disk. I understood that initially as the CD you installed from didn't matter. However, after more digging, it seems that the CD can be copied into an ISO only for personal use. You may not give that ISO to anyone else, even if they have a legal CD key.
Sorry for my misunderstanding and I apologize for posting that.
I suppose you learn something new every day!
And just because your "experienced" co-workers say it's fine... Doesn't always mean it's really fine...
Yes, you may make a personal copy of the CD to use, but if the CD is destroyed, the only way to get another legal copy is through Microsoft (that is assuming Microsoft would actually give you another copy; they do not have to).
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Used to use AVG Free but after last year the free edition sucks,
I have to agree there. Last year or two it's been getting annoying and bigger, bloatier (I know, that's not a word), and more like nag-ware.
I moved to AVAST free edition after that and have been using it for a little while.
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I tried the free version of AVAST a few years ago, and it seemed to work fine. I did however think that it was a little on the heavy side of resource hogging. And even though it had the ability to have it's actions suspended, I still found it stealing some resources whenever I checked the task manager. I couldn't shut them down completely. I would look, and yep, there they would be, AV something or the other, still running. So after going without for a while, and doing my best to surf smart, I decided to go back to using another anti virus software. I went and purchased the Kaspersky product. It has some pretty good reviews and seems to work as advertised. I like the fact that I can completely shut down all of it's functions when needed and start them back up just as easily. So far, I feel as if I've made a good choice.
Nutz
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Returnil free
Sandboxie free
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Avast. Been using it for almost a decade. Free, never have caught anything.
<S> Oz
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I've heard surprisingly good things about Microsoft Security Essentials. Anyone here had any experience with it?
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No, I only use ESET Smart Security 4. No need for anything else.
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I should add that my main interest in the Microsoft one is that it is free and is also allowed to be installed in a corporate setting.
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I should add that my main interest in the Microsoft one is that it is free and is also allowed to be installed in a corporate setting.
For corporate it sucks balls on compliance and reporting. Nothing.... nothing... beats mcafee and EPO in corporate (and CA eTrust should be called anti-anti-virus).
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For corporate it sucks balls on compliance and reporting. Nothing.... nothing... beats mcafee and EPO in corporate (and CA eTrust should be called anti-anti-virus).
Sure, the reason I ask though is this is a small company that is really tight on budget. Just looking for independent computer protection.