Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Tyrannis on February 11, 2011, 04:47:59 PM
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first off, i love the p40. its my third favorite early war plane. (the p39 being first, p38G second).
i would love to fly it more often, but most people in there ive run into are flying some model of spit.
and ive never been able to survive a DF against a spit in a p40. because of this ive shy'ed away from flying it (opting for the hurricanes instead).
i would like to start flying it again.
so does anyone have any helpful advice on how to beat early war spits in a p40? or atleast an advantage i could try to use against them?
any suggestions are welcome and greatly appreciated :salute
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Shoot them when they're not looking.
Spit = easy mode.
P-40E = not-so-easy mode.
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Sorry got nothing. Spitfires are really good.
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Roll rate is your friend. Excepting the 16, Spits aren't very good at quick direction changes. The P-40 has great flaps and can turn fight at pretty slow speeds too. Though a smart Spit driver will slow you down and then go verticle, which you are way outclassed. You can BnZ them, but they build energy as fast as you will lose it. Make your shots count. You can't run away, so that doesn't work either. I let them acquire my six (which is gonna happen anyway) and force the overshoot. Spits hold their energy well, which you can use against them that way. Equal pilots - you're probably going to lose all things considered.
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Caldera... The P-40 has bad flaps. While they will actually deploy at high speeds they are terrible, inefficient, and split-flap type meant for maximum drag to land with. Use of them during combat will get you killed. Not to mention first hit EVERY time will remove one of them, and if it's deployed when lost you're in a world of pain. If anything they are for high-speed break turns meant to convert E to angles, and not for use in stalling turns.
The P-40E can NOT fight at very low speeds. I don't know where you get this from... Once you slow down your turn rate goes into the gutter. This plane is best turned WELL above stall speeds. If you drop below 150mph you're in big trouble. Best turn rate is about 250mph. Do NOT stall fight this plane.
It doesn't turn fight well without a lot of E. It doesn't regain E. It's best bet against any plane that is superior is to run the other way and look for something else to kill.
Against even the early spitfire models, the P-40E is somewhat outclassed. It really cannot compete unless you REALLY know what you're doing.
(and ya don't learn what you're doing by using it against spits! It's a quick trip back to the tower that way and you don't learn much)
EDIT: Sorry, didn't mean to be harsh. The rest of your advice is good (make shots count, etc, overshoots, etc).
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I know all about the glass flaps, Krusty. And I disagree with you on slow turn fights. I have had many on the deck fights (against Spits) at glacial speed and won because of the flaps. Once you are low and slow, you are at his mercy - if he is smart enough to take the fight verticle. You have to be on your A game of course. But if I can do it, anyone can. :aok
And if he runs from every "superior" plane, the only thing left is to look for enemy P-40Bs. :rolleyes:
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I'll pass on what I've figured out. A P40 likes to have alt to work with. It does well BnZ for sure. Will dive like a brick and remain stable. It is a handful slow but can be managed with practice. I've found the best results with spits is to drop a notch of flaps at the merge and pull hard into the Immelman. A spit doesn't bleed off E well and will have a hard time turning with you on the initial and he can't match the high speed turn. I have yet to find a spit pilot that won't pull like the dickens on the merge to get around. This is where it gets tricky, you have to make your shots count. You won't get many chances. I've had some pretty good luck against less skilled cartoon pilots but if they know what they are doing a P40 is at a triple disadvantage: turn, speed, climb. Also, don't discount it in the vertical. I don't mean long climb fights, I mean getting enough speed up to pull the nose over the top in a loop. It is fairly controllable at the top and dumping flaps judiciously will help tighten the vertical circle. I've had spits helplessly fly circles around me as I keep them in my lift vector. Six fifties will saw the wings off a spit in a jiffy. The P40 is not an easy mode plane for sure. It will buck and flop and, at a certain point, will simply stop flying at the most inopportune moments. They are a hoot though and any kill in a P40 is a kill well earned.
Oh yeah, they will, indeed, bleed E quickly. Had a royal hoot in AvA against the 109s forcing overshoots.
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Get them to overshoot and blast them
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Shoot them when they're not looking.
Spit = easy mode.
P-40E = not-so-easy mode.
A Spit 1 is "Easy mode"? Sorry, I cannot agree with that being included with Spixteens and the other fuel injected Spits. With them you do not have to be mindful of a "negative G stall" at anytime during, any maneuver. Let alone, have to be thinking "ahead of your opponent" to try and avoid them.
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A Spit 1 is "Easy mode"? Sorry, I cannot agree with that being included with Spixteens and the other fuel injected Spits. With them you do not have to be mindful of a "negative G stall" at anytime during, any maneuver. Let alone, have to be thinking "ahead of your opponent" to try and avoid them.
Agreed. Spit I, and to a large degree the 14, are not easy-to-fly-well planes.
But...the others are...!
- oldman
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Spit 1 and 14 arent easy to fly?
Well flying the spit1 against ponies, 109ks, etc, sure thats not easy. But try it against planes from its era, emils, hurri1s, c202s, p40Bs. If you still say its not easy mode, something must be wrong.
Spit14? If you want to turnfight against a spit8, sure it isnt easy mode. But in the tipical MA engage(pick) and run role, its one of the bests. Climbs like nothing, has one-shot-kill guns, and can chase down anything but a tempest. And still outturns many planes, ponies, jugs, 190s, tiffies, so every plane what can catch it. Isnt it easy-mode?
About the p40, im not an expert, but in my opinion, both Krusty and Caldera are both right. Its flaps are rubbish when its about producing lift, they mostly generate drag. Is it good or bad? In a downhill scissors or defensive helix situation, those flaps are your friends, easy to overshoot anything couse you can be much slower than them. But when its about flat turning or rolling scissors, those flaps are really worthless, and combined with the weak engine, the spits have all the advantages. So the p40 has very limited options. Initiate a defensive helix and HOPE that the spit wont break from it, and then you may get one-two snapshots. But generally the p40 has no chance.
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A Spit 1 is "Easy mode"? Sorry, I cannot agree with that being included with Spixteens and the other fuel injected Spits.
I haven't heard of a Merlin with fuel injection.
All Spits in AH have carburators...
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Sorry. The others don't suffer from negative G's.
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Spit 1 and 14 arent easy to fly?
Well flying the spit1 against ponies, 109ks, etc, sure thats not easy. But try it against planes from its era, emils, hurri1s, c202s, p40Bs. If you still say its not easy mode, something must be wrong.
Spit14? If you want to turnfight against a spit8, sure it isnt easy mode. But in the tipical MA engage(pick) and run role, its one of the bests. Climbs like nothing, has one-shot-kill guns, and can chase down anything but a tempest. And still outturns many planes, ponies, jugs, 190s, tiffies, so every plane what can catch it. Isnt it easy-mode?
I'm just a pathetic pilot, sorry.
- oldman
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Nope, sir, youre probably a good pilot who has balls to make a spit14 turn :salute
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Spit14? If you want to turnfight against a spit8, sure it isnt easy mode. But in the tipical MA engage(pick) and run role, its one of the bests. Climbs like nothing, has one-shot-kill guns, and can chase down anything but a tempest. And still outturns many planes, ponies, jugs, 190s, tiffies, so every plane what can catch it. Isnt it easy-mode?
Sure, but 99% of people in AH try to fly it like a spit16, the other .9% rip it's wings off all the time by trying to fly it fast.
I am unaware of anyone in AH who flies Spit14s as their main plane, besides me.
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Set all your .50's to 420-450 range. Aim for the centerline, and the ammo will ripple on the wings, spitfires wings are VERY VERY vulnerable to .50 cal fire.
You will have a lawn dart to watch hit the ground. ;)
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Sure, but 99% of people in AH try to fly it like a spit16, the other .9% rip it's wings off all the time by trying to fly it fast.
I am unaware of anyone in AH who flies Spit14s as their main plane, besides me.
thats because its perked and worse then the 16 in almost every way for AH combat - other then an excess of perks or sadistic desire to master it, the 14 is inferior. . . unless you pick and run with it - but even then - the 51 is just fine as is the jug and k4. . .
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Very true, Ruah. 16 is super easy-mode.
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A Spit 1 is "Easy mode"?
IIRC, the early war arena has the IX.
But, yeah, the Mk I and XIV are not easy mode.
Like joachim suggested, your best chance in the P-40E is to force an overshoot. Other than that you're history.
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so pretty much my safest bet would be to make them overshoot, then try to get quick bursts in on them?
but even with that tactic theres slim chance i can win the battle?
:(
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Only if you are a significantly better pilot than your opponent. There are some amazing P-40 pilots out there, but they are rare. Expect to be toast unless the Spit pilot is very unskilled.
Do a search about nose-to-nose versus nose-to-tail fights. In the P-40, you want to keep fights against the Spit nose-to-nose (this does not meaning HO'ing).
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You mean the flat scissors? Thats the only way the 109 g-6 can keep up with a spit16, maybe it works with the p-40 too
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P40 does very well in scissors because it seems to go so slow. Also it takes a lot of damage so short bursts from enemy are unlikely to kill you quickly.
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Only if you are a significantly better pilot than your opponent. There are some amazing P-40 pilots out there, but they are rare. Expect to be toast unless the Spit pilot is very unskilled.
Do a search about nose-to-nose versus nose-to-tail fights. In the P-40, you want to keep fights against the Spit nose-to-nose (this does not meaning HO'ing).
In a P-40 vs. Spitfire fight, you want to keep the fight as fast as possible against the Spitfire and stay out of the medium speed range where the Spitfire will be on the Kittyhawk like white on rice.
Someone mentioned BnZ tactics and that's the best tactic to use if you're in a P-40. If fighting against a Spitfire Mk I, things get a little easier as the P-40 driver can take advantage of using negative G maneuvering, which the Mk I can't follow without risking stalling out the engine.
ack-ack
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Very good hint, Ack-Ack, the spit1 cant roll well so cant follow a p40 in a negative G maneuver. :aok
But i can imagine that only in a defensive situation.
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Very good hint, Ack-Ack, the spit1 cant roll well so cant follow a p40 in a negative G maneuver. :aok
But i can imagine that only in a defensive situation.
Yep, but it can be a way to seize the initiative and change the fight from the P-40's perspective of a defensive one into an offensive one.
ack-ack
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Very good hint, Ack-Ack, the spit1 cant roll well so cant follow a p40 in a negative G maneuver. :aok
But i can imagine that only in a defensive situation.
Actually, if you are competent, the neg G dive is simple. I don't have an issue with diving to follow someone.
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Actually, if you are competent, the neg G dive is simple. I don't have an issue with diving to follow someone.
Reading that reminds me of the 303 days. :rock