Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hblair on July 14, 2001, 05:53:00 PM
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1. My stick was messed up
2. My daughter was flying
3. P47d11 flight model is porked
4. My wife kept bothering me
5. We were always outnumbered by 1 plane
6. Uncle fester is bad news
7. No nikki's were allowed
8. .50's were better suited for this
9. Luftwaffe conspiracy
10. We flat out stunk
I'll think of more later...
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cc piss poor planning? gota blame it on the boss :) joke :) hell i was pleased with my perf i even got a kill in last round :)
ty i had a lota fun
<S>
[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: Geeb ]
[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: Geeb ]
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hur hur hur
<S>
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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1. Creamo Kills 109
2. Creamo kills 109
3. Creamo Kills 109
4. Creamo kills 109
5. Creamo Kills 109
6. Creamo gets ASSIST on 109
7. I like cheese.
8. Bistro is a huge dork.
9. Fatty bought NewCastle Ale for the Rumble, just like me.
10. Sancho's farm was stricken by a drought, locus, and vermin, and needed my $30 for a free month of AH for blowing Hristo right outta that peice 'O shat 109.
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LOL... Yha was amazing... The FDB's pulled off the impossible... all of em survived fight 2, both outter ring and center cage of death..
We may NEVER live to see anything like that again.... one of those moments when the beer; the weed; the music; the wails on RW all came together to form a perfect universe; planets aligned; and 109's and 190's all twisted wreckage. :) Was a magic moment. :D
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Congrats to Allies on winning such a one sided fight.
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Lol I was wonderin' when it would start... It *is* a Rumble, after all...
Have at it guys :)
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
center cage of death..
Center cage of death. Now that's an overstatement. By the time the allies made it to the center, there was little if any resistance.
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier:
Congrats to Allies on winning such a one sided fight.
Really would like to know what you mean by that cavalier. The CM's kept the sides even and hell we even rolled one short in our cage in fight 2 because Fatty doesnt know how to count.
Oh well...<S> to all involved. The squealing is inevitable.
"A whine has been recorded"
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It's those FW 1 ping engine death, I tell you.
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fight 1: Spitfire IX vs Bf-109G2
fight 2: Spitfire IX vs Bf-109G2
fight 3: allthough we had only 7 guys that time we did ok, yes we had G-10s...
I think that's what Cavalear is talking about. He should have expressed it differently though.
Salute to all who participated and WTFG Hristo!!! :D When you have time send me that film. ;)
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1Wmaker1
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/~paulusk/Lelv34.jpg)
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Newcastle Brown Ale? Ah... now we know :)
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1-10 Spitfires
P.S.
Joonas, you can find films in Rumble board.
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier:
Congrats to Allies on winning such a one sided fight.
Pilots win fights, not aeroplanes. Hristo in the weakest LW ride will beat me everytime, regardless of my ride.
Pilots win fights - not aeroplanes -- got it?
AKcurly
[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: AKcurly ]
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OK for those who are desperate to read into a simple statement more than the obvious here it is again, "Congrats to Allies on winning such a one sided fight."
Nothing else was posted, no whining, no mention of aircraft used but Sling322 and AKcurly utilising their telepathic powers decide its a whine.
Well beam this into your skulls, its quite simple really, in my book a 3-0 WIN IS A ONE SIDED FIGHT.
And i suspect when the logs are complete they will only confirm that statement.
So look elsewhere for whining cos you aint getting any from me.
Got it ?
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Guys, stop it. While I agree 3:0 says something, we can't rob Allies their victory.
IMO, it is the Spit factor. A cage match, without chance to "extend" vs Spitfires requires highly skilled and trained pilots. Squadies flying together, not last minutes made flights. And acting as a team. Otherwise it is a slaughter we saw there. Partly due to the nature of Rumble itself, partly due to preparational errors on Axis side, we let the Spitfire factor win.
I tried something for a change. After my flight got killed in Fight1, I allowed them any plane allowed. 2/3 of my flight went for Ki61. And they did well, it was our Spitfire.
You know what ? I think Axis would win the Rumble if we all flew Zekes. C'est la vie ;)
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7. No nikki's were allowed
LOL!!!!! so the allied UFO was there, but the axis one not ;) that explains a lot.
the fact that the best LW pilots (by far) are not in AH should be a heavy factor in deciding the rumble. I dont know if it has been but I am sure it has.
Let them think they are better. They are not. ;).
[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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R4metzass, that had got to be your most retarded post yet, only next to when you couldn’t get out of bed over a CNN reported bus wreck, or the classic, “wrong guy for the community” laugher.
If this whole Rumble thing deserved one simple courteous outcome, it would be regardless of the victors, only the pilots that flew it comment on it. (At least in the critical department that is.)
For you to say it was decided by another “UFO” (you dumb toejam) although typical of you, is still so absurd it almost amazes me. What part of the historical matchups seems so unfair?
The guys that refused to participate, whether it was by quitting the AH community, or were worried about the outcome, or whatever lame reason, please do exactly what you did come crunch time. Hide, quit, and be very absently quiet.
Goofing on guys, teasing, slinging toejam to stir up rivals, and therefore stiff competition, is all apart of it, and I’d be taking my lumps if the outcome were different.
But it wasn’t.
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Ooops, forgot this classic -
"the fact that the best LW pilots (by far) are not in AH should be a heavy factor in deciding the rumble.
Oh brother... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Wmaker:
fight 1: Spitfire IX vs Bf-109G2
fight 2: Spitfire IX vs Bf-109G2
fight 3: allthough we had only 7 guys that time we did ok, yes we had G-10s...
And another view:
Fight 1: P-47D-11 vs 109G2
Fight 2: P-47D-25 vs 109G2,KI-61
Fight 3: P-47D-30 vs 109G10,190
:)
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It was me who came with plane choices. It was ment to be a historical matchup, mainly European Western Front. Fight 2 having Japanese, Soviet and Italian planes was just a concession to players who like those planes.
Niki and C-Hog were left out because of possible FM arguments etc.
I still consider the planeset good. In an arena type of fight, Axis might have stood better chance. We will not know it until we try it. In cage type of fight, where you can't run, Spitfire gets the edge. Simple as that. It is my impression that if all Axis flew Zeke, we would do even better - SA gets overload, there is no room to run. With an average AH pilot, mind you. Most decent sticks can beat Zeke even in cage type of fight, but not your average player.
As for pilots, I agree some great sticks left. It happens that they were good LW pilots. From last year Rumble team only I was there. Nobody else. That speaks for itself. Still, new pilots gave their best effort and it would be poor taste from me to criticize their flying. I can only thank them.
IMO
It was just that the fight was inclined towards most average-pilot friendly plane. Its strengths were pronounced, its weaknesses were dampened. Leave the Spits out, give allies Jugs and P51s. Give Axis 109F-4. Stack tham in cages. Some Allied pilots will stay untouchable, most will get shot down. IMO
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IMO spits had the major role in this fight. Without them the story would have been different. They headed straight to nme's and started fight dragging 109's & 190's lower. By that, jugs & stangs had enought time to climb with their poor climbrate. That was great plan and it worked, S! sancho.
Good fights!
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/cool/56th_2.jpg)
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That's it!!..I have to fly in one of these rumbles now..Cav,how about us winging together for one of these?(or with your group) :p
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Originally posted by janneh:
And another view:
Fight 1: P-47D-11 vs 109G2
Fight 2: P-47D-25 vs 109G2,KI-61
Fight 3: P-47D-30 vs 109G10,190
:)
I see Spitfires taking off in the screenshots you posted to the screenshots and images section.
Originally posted by janneh:
IMO spits had the major role in this fight. Without them the story would have been different. They headed straight to nme's and started fight dragging 109's & 190's lower. By that, jugs & stangs had enought time to climb with their poor climbrate. That was great plan and it worked, S! sancho.
So, there were Spitfires in your cage too, right?
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1Wmaker1
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/~paulusk/Lelv34.jpg)
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Man, am i chocked and disappionted! That you Golly-gee goatroping Rednecks didn't had the balls to show up in a REAL 42 plane. All though the SpitIX saw first action in VERY small numbers at the end of 42 and mostly at the channelfront, it's real kicking Jeryass primetime was in Africa and Sicily spring 43.
Forgiven is that you Yanks obviously are missing the P-40, but I realy thought you guys had some guts and where showing up in the SpitV.
ZheKraut
P.S
Ok, it was my first rumble and I appreciate initiatives like that and i can see the entertaining typical US showmanship potentional, allá wrestling, in it. Hell, it could be a ball if we all flew the LA-7, but to all history guys i'd say: Stay out of it and join the check six and special event arangments.
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Fight 1 : Spits v 109G2s. Yes, Allies could be expected to win.
Fight 2: More options open to the Axis. A combined Ki61 / Zeke force for instance should have beaten any Allied force over-reliant on Spits.
Could have gone either way.
Fight 3: Axis could have taken all G10s and outclimbed the Allies all day long. But as Janneh said above most LW in my cage at least went straight after our small force of decoy Spits which gave the P51s and P47s the chance to engage on favourable terms. No way should a humble 1942 Spit9 EVER shoot down a G10 or D9, even in a cage fight. That's nothing to do with alleged FM inaccuracies, it's to do with the way the planes are flown.
Axis should have won Round 3 given what was available.
Hristo's right. The planeset was good.
Vladd
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/56sig.gif)
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As for pilots, I agree some great sticks left. It happens that they were good LW pilots. From last year Rumble team only I was there.
What does that tell you about how "good" those pilots were?
A good pilot need not be the best ALT monkey who can run away anytime they find adversity, odds against them, or even where the advantage has deteriorated to even odds.
Ya might even say a nod would be given to the guys that stick with this great product in it’s growing stages, not only cause it helps HTC, and all the community, but it says a lot about the person that doesn’t have a toejam fit about every little idiosyncrasy, and run away from everything that doesn’t suit there particular needs all the time.
YA think?
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Originally posted by Wmaker:
So, there were Spitfires in your cage too, right?
Sure was. I never said anything else. What I was pointing was my view and what I flew.
:)
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Yep, we used Spits, jugs, and ponies in the SE cage near field 18. Original plan was to focus on jugs and P51s, but I had some guys who whined excessively about this :D and since the Rules of Engagement (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000018) (agreed on by both sides well before the fight) allowed me to pick whatever planeset I wanted, I added a small contingent of spits. They were the minority every frame and certainly didn't do all the killing, but they did rack up quite a record of kills. <S>
IMO, planeset (the eternal spit whine is amusing) had nothing to do with our victory. THe LW in our cage tended to get spread out too thin and although they usually were above us allies, they attacked singly and got themselves killed. The LW lacked unit cohesion--that's why they lost. Even with 10 planes against our 9 in frame two. ;)
For more info, you can read my writeup in this thread: http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000027 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000027)
<S> all. It was a good fight.
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Fight 2
P-51B vs 109-G2 and 190-A5
Victory 4 by Midnight of Cage 2 Combat Group :D
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Wing up, Get kills, Be happy!
Midnight CO
(http://webpages.charter.net/davidlj/GIFs/412.gif) (http://webpages.charter.net/davidlj)
The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information davidlj@charter.net
[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Midnight ]
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Originally posted by JG_Sunbird:
Man, am i chocked and disappionted! That you Golly-gee goatroping Rednecks didn't had the balls to show up in a REAL 42 plane. All though the SpitIX saw first action in VERY small numbers at the end of 42 and mostly at the channelfront, it's real kicking Jeryass primetime was in Africa and Sicily spring 43.
Forgiven is that you Yanks obviously are missing the P-40, but I realy thought you guys had some guts and where showing up in the SpitV.
ZheKraut
Spit 5 outturns the Spit 9 therefor it would have faired even better!
FDB's also took the .303 loadout. Seems to me the G-10 was also in the rumble...I'm no luftwaffe expert like R4M but that was a 1943 or later wasn't it?
As for R4M and his silly remarks....refer to Creamo's post as he hit the nail and the Tard on the head. Just because an Allied plane (Spit) outturns an Axis plane does not make it a UFO. Check the history books pal....it was like that in real life.
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<RANT ASIDE>
It was a great event...thanks to Nash and the rest of the oprganizers. As for the Axis guys in cage 4 <S> to you all. We had us a classis free - for - all rumble like we were meant to!
Looking forward to another one!
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Originally posted by janneh:
Sure was. I never said anything else. What I was pointing was my view and what I flew.
:)
Ok, I understood you were talking about all the planes that were used in the three fights in your cage like I was. Sorry for the misunderstanding, glad we got that cleared out.
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1Wmaker1
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/~paulusk/Lelv34.jpg)
[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Wmaker ]
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Dunno about the rest of you guys that flew spits, but my kills came when the 109's came lower and started turning. When they flew the G10's in frame 3, they wiped the floor with us, because they stayed fast and didn't turn down low. There was plenty of room to run from the "UFO" (HA!) spits.
and just FYI, the Spit V was only available in the first frame. I wanted to fly it, but was told our cage was Spit IX's only. The Spit V is a smidge slower than the IX, but turns a little tighter. Has the same 303/20mm armament.
In any case, talk to the creators of the planesets and ROE if you have a problem with the Spit IX being flown in all 3 frames. The plane was available, and that's what our lead (I flew with the FDBs, btw) said we were flying.
<S!> to all you guys, especially Nash for putting this together! I had a blast, even when I got killed in frame 3 (I was dumb that frame. damn beer. :p )
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That you Golly-gee goatroping Rednecks didn't had the balls to show up in a REAL 42 plane. All though the SpitIX saw first action in VERY small numbers at the end of 42 and mostly at the channelfront, it's real kicking Jeryass primetime was in Africa and Sicily spring 43.
First RAF squadron to convert to Spit IXs June 42. Four squadrons in action during Dieppe August 42 (not at Dieppe unfortunately). Around a dozen squadrons equipped during 42.
109G10 first use around mid 44.
One of those planes doesn't belong in a 42 scenario, and it certainly ain't the Spit.
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i was axis flyin at base 10 i believe. we were totaly uncoordinated. on rw after the first flight i could hear nothin but one guy with his vox on breathing. in every frame the allies we fought were in a coordinated group with voice comms tight little pack . and far faster aircraft. every time i died it was at the hand of 2 or 3 aircraft alone. no organizaton on axis side and tons of nubys = easy empty victory and no fun at all for the axis players. that is what cavaler is talking about. and he was right from my prospective.
obviously this was not the intention and the people in charge tried very hard to make it fair. mayby next time it wont be squads with faster planes aginst every on else.
jello
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You fought against us Jello. I had my spit on full WEP and chased you in circles arounf the dam cage in the first frame! You were definately faster than we were.
Enough about planes. Seems you hit it on the head with lack of orgainization on the Axis side. That is not a shot BTW...just the fact that we were all on RW..very vocal and were constantly watching out for each other.
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We may have been disorganized on the Axis side, but I flew with great pilots in the K9 arena, and we got beat by great Allied pilots.
The Allies seemed to be well organized and they flew great. That's why they won.
Great job Nash and the CMs and everyone else involved in setting this up! I know it's a huge event and takes a lot of prep, but how about every 6 months? eh? :)
SOB
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Hehe.. I got my buns shot off in the first frame- didn't know there was a second frame or I woulda stuck around (logged to go eat). All in all, we weren't poorly organized, we had a plan, it just fell apart once the shooting started ;-) <S> to the event organizers and to the Allied flyers ;-)
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I was with one squadie, Swoop, and the rest of the 56 in K9 under Vladd. My RW was pork’d and I had no voice coms but it was definitely apparent there was a plan involved. Did I really have to know it? No. This was my plan inside Vladd’s plan. DON’T LOOSE YOUR WINGMAN! There were several times I had contacts within 1.5k and never turned for them. It all just seemed to come together.
Fight 1: Spit IX - Highlight Swoop, don’t loose track of him. Result: I got 3 kills and we both made it as well as 6 other of our cage.
Fight 2: Spit IX – Highlight Swoop, don’t loose track of him. Result: I got one kill and an assist. Made it to the Axis runway in the center cage, and landed at the end of the runway with oil damage. Ground capped ;) 3 of our cage made it.
Fight 3: P51D – Highlight Vladd, don’t loose track of him. Result: I got an assist and a kill but the 109 I shredded from wingtip to wingtip decided to break up and relieve itself of its left wing completely, and promptly deposited it in my cockpit. 8 of the cage made it.
At any one time I was never farther then 4k from my wingie and was always looking for them. I think we won that ring because of the way Vladd split us up and the amount of cooperation and wingman tactics.
<S> to all that was involved. I had a great time. Did I also mention that I really thought it was going to go the other way?
Zippatuh
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The allies beat us fair and square. here is my assesment of why we lost.
1) Disorganization. My original plans were for a 16 pilot combat group. On game day, I have 90% of my guys show up, but was fored to make some join other leaders who didnt practice with their groups/confirm attendance/etcera. This hurt both them (because their pilots hadnt yet flown with them at all) and me (because i didnt have the pilots in my group who I'd trained with)
2) Planesets. I'm not arguing the flight models, because i think they are accurate. But the fact is, that since Nash had the takeoffs set to 10,000 ft. the engagement altitude in all three fights was well over 20,000 ft. This gives a heavy advantage to the allies, who in frame 1 in my cage utilized spitfire F.IX and the P47-d11, both planes whoch outclimb, outgun, and outturn outgun the 109-g2 and 190 a5 at those altitudes (20-25000 ft). I personally dont think the D11 should have been included in the first frame, its a early '44 plane not a mid '42 one.
3) Same thing kind of for frame 2. Saying spits could be easily beaten by ki-61 and zekes is kinda silly, considering the engagement altitudes again. The spits blower gives it really high speed and climb (comparatively) vs axis aircraft at the high altitudes forced by the rumble terrain. Additionally, the P51B (early 44 aircraft) which was included *drastically* outperforms our early 44 aircraft we were given (the 190 a8, which everyone knows is a dog, especially at high altitudes).
frame 3? I can't argue with frame 3, the axis were given a fair planeset to compete with (g10s and doras) and still lost. What I will attribute this (frame 3) to is the "general population" flying instead of handpicked groups by hristo and hangtime. I think frame 3, with a closed group of 16 on 16 would go to the axis, who most likely have better aircraft for the rumble. But with the hodgepodge of attendees (some of whom were just flying axis for the kick of it) the allies, whos planes are easier to fly, but not better. (IE the p51 is easier to fly than the 109 g10, but i definitely woudlnt call it better, id say they're equal)
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You had to attribute frame 3 to something Zig, otherwise the other 2 frames excuses fall flat. How in the hell could Doras and G10's not just dominate?
But to say squads like the FDB helped win out of organization is absurd.
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If we had full 9./JG54 flying in one sector, LeLv 34 (full) in another, Assassins (full) in 3rd, the outcome might have been different. Instead, our force mainly consisted of individuals who have never flown together before, pilots flying Axis just to fill up the numbers etc. with only fragments of squads in each sector.
Pilots in my sector came all from different squads. I knew it from the start, I tried to make room for other FL to recruit and pick the remaining pilots. They still did well though, just Allies did better.
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Für Nashwan:
On
19 August, 6,000 Canadian troops were put ashore at Dieppe for a large-scale raid. Code-named Operation Jubilee, the raid was a costly failure but provided invaluable lessons for subsequent seaborne invasions. Of the 67 RAF squadrons committed in support, 48 were of Spitfires - 42 with Mk Vs, four with Mk IXs and two with Mk VIs. Of the 106 Allied aircraft lost, 88 were fighters, most of them Spitfires
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I tried to lead the group in which jello flew. Because of the reason I won't discuss here I got the wingleader job about 60 mins before the 1st frame started. I had only one guy (Harppa) from the roster I was supposed to fly with. All the rest were walk-ons which I tried to desperately recruit. It was the first time for me to lead a flight ever in AH. Pretty obviously it was totally wrong place and time for it but I didn't have a choise. I couldn't get everyone on RW ect. ect. It was a total hell really. Nothing worked the way it should have. It was the first time I ever used Mission editor. I know it isn't THAT complicated interface or anything but using at first was slow and not everything went as it should have. Again because of the reasons I won't go into here I was pretty damn frustrated and wanted to quit the whole thing alltogether but when Hristo assigned flight leader's job to me I didn't want to let him or the whole rumble-crowd down because I had registered for the event and was expected to be there. I want to make clear that I'm not whining here. Just telling you how it was. I have the whole thing on film if someone wants to see it. I'm telling you this so you'd know that the Axis flight you met in the top cage hadn't been planning/practising for this for a month all night long, thats all.
Nino, I did my best, sorry. :(
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1Wmaker1
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/~paulusk/Lelv34.jpg)
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If we had full 9./JG54 flying in one sector
If, they were flying, IF, that is. But they aint. They quit, and cried, and what not.
Aren’t you talking about how things would be different using a squad that is so adamant about disliking HTC and this product they add “Today’s Number 4” after their squad callsign like a bunch of fools?
What your saying is if you had just the right circumstances, a different unrealistic plane matchup, and the best pilots, you could win.
No toejam Sherlock.
Keep the excuse pool coming, this is really fun reading.
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[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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Wmaker, I can only thank you for the responsibility you took there yesterday. With no FL experience and being notified 60 minutes before the start, having to work with walk-ons is tough job for any flight leader. You did well enough for me at the moment you accepted the task.
Thanks, old friend. I hope to meet you more in virtual skies. <S>
Seems Axis in Rumble experienced 1944-45 shortage of pilots. Fresh recruits provided the numbers, but lacked that tiny edge in combat. concerning this, I think we did good job in the Rumble. By watching Sancho's films in my sector, I don't think Spits were the main reason for our demise. Just a mix of poor planning, last minute roster changes and lack of old hands on our side. We looked good, we lacked Experten to do the job. There.
See the films at:
http://www.jump.net/~cs3/films/rumble-sancho.zip (http://www.jump.net/~cs3/films/rumble-sancho.zip)
[edited]
Creamo, I might even agree with you on some points. :(
[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Hristo ]
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Wmaker...you were in a tough position there...I would not have wanted to take yer spot. It's bad enough just getting prepped and flying the frame let alone doing all that B.S.
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Everyone with a brain knows the allies won for one reason only:
I was in Sweden and couldn't attend.
I wouldn't even call it a victory since I wasn't in.
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Sunbird, that's pretty much what I said, and I'm glad to see you've changed from the position that the Spit IX didn't see action until the end of 42.
The Spit IXs didn't participate in the action around Dieppe, they covered a raid by the first B-17 squadrons on Luftwaffe airfields. The Luft didn't intercept the raid.
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
2) Planesets. I'm not arguing the flight models, because i think they are accurate. But the fact is, that since Nash had the takeoffs set to 10,000 ft. the engagement altitude in all three fights was well over 20,000 ft. This gives a heavy advantage to the allies, who in frame 1 in my cage utilized spitfire F.IX and the P47-d11, both planes whoch outclimb, outgun, and outturn outgun the 109-g2 and 190 a5 at those altitudes (20-25000 ft). I personally dont think the D11 should have been included in the first frame, its a early '44 plane not a mid '42 one.
Hi zigrat.
I must disagree with above.
Perhaps D-11 can climb at 25k alts, but the fact is, that when entered to ring (and was climbing with wep all the way from field) alt was about 13k. It takes forever to climb jug to 20k.
EDIT:
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/cool/Rumble2001/Rumble_01_01.jpg)
[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: janneh ]
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I hope this goes away quickly and never comes back.
The demise of any recognisable LW contigent that would have the skills to win one of these things is complete. Why give the more preditory and mean spirted authors of that demise a forum to strut about it.
So much work. For so much angst. zero chance of a good fight.
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I have to honestly addmit that thought the outcome would be just the opposite. I fact for the last two tours even though I fly with a P-47 squadron most of my time has been dedicated to learning how to fly the ME-109 and specifically the G2. I have learned to appriciate its capabilities and it has been a transition for me to learn its strengths. I go into the training arena more than the MA to practice. Now some comments on the Rumble:
I can only comment on Cage 5 specifically.
- without a slight on ANY pilot I beleive we had a slight tallent advantage.
- From a strategy point of view we had 6 P-47D-11s and 5 Spit IX's enter.
- our plan was to have 1/2 of the Jugs go left and half go right after entering the cage and hug the wall and grab.
- the spits were to go to the center and when the enemy was sighted to engage them and pull them down.
- the jugs were to cloose and attack hopefully from above.
- all three frames the enemy came in as a big mass.
- the axis had some excellent pilots in there ranks but I beleive that as some were not used to flying with each other and they got caught in drag and bags or got seperated from wingman or had none.
- when numbers grew favoring the allied pilots they soon could numerically take advantage of the better pilots.
- When they entered the main cage it seemed like the numerical advantage went to the allied pilots in every cage.
In general both sides used simalar strategy and the same result was arrived at in all three sets.
All I know is everyone fought well and had a great time! Special thanks to Nash, Hangtime and Hristo.
I have really enjoyed flying the 109 lately and in Rumble 2002 or the next time this is done I would like to fly for the LW if Hristo will let me. Honestly on any given day the result could have been just the opposite. This is not to deminish the accomplishments of the Allied Victory.
So far I guess it 1 Win for Allied & 1 Win for Axis. My blood was pumping... I can hardly wait until we get to do this again!
SALUTE ALL THAT PARTICIPATED!!!!
Thunder
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Envy can be detrimental to your health.
-SW
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How about in independent view (neither dedicated LW and tiffie specialist):
1st Round planes were even, LW advantage slightly with faster A5's and climbing G2s.
2nd Allied planes started to pull ahead. P51Bs, Tiffies, F6s, F4s, LA5s, Yaks, better Jugs.
3rd Round was completely off the scale. In our sector we had at least 3, maybe more, Tempests.
I would have to say LW things were fairly disorganised. 60% of the pilots in my cage didn't turn up. I was in desperate need of macro's.
All in all a pretty good simulation of the late war LW, newbie pilots, crap planes, bad organisation :D
Next I'd suggest a more simple planeset, the first round was the most closely matched IMHO. And given the Allies did win the first round I think this gives them the definite victory - balanced or unbalanced in the later rounds.
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Hehehe... "LuftWhiners"
I was never really wrong.
<G>
-SW
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IMO, Wmaker is the true hero of the Rumble 2001. Over and out.
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make a experiment let fly all \ALied in Lw planes and Lw in alied planes
weell se if the can spray and pray with single 20 mm canon and peashoters :p
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Well obviously the allies deserved the win, they got a clean sweep... it wasn't even close.
hang and the gang
Nonetheless, i think the planeset would have been more appropriate if 1) the d11 had been omitted from frame 1 (seeing that its date of introduction is more than a year than all otehr planes in the set) and 2) there was a -g6 ASM for the luftwaffe to use in frame 2 (since the only real addition in frame 2 was the 190 a8, which can really be seen as a non addition since it is inferior to the a5 in nearly every way)
again i am stating that the allies clearly deserved the win since they won frame 3, which imo was evenly matched, but the rumble would have been better had the planesets in frames 1 and 2 been considered more carefully (or had the arena set up to have fights at lower altitude)
imo
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
2) Planesets. I'm not arguing the flight models, because i think they are accurate. But the fact is, that since Nash had the takeoffs set to 10,000 ft. the engagement altitude in all three fights was well over 20,000 ft. This gives a heavy advantage to the allies, who in frame 1 in my cage utilized spitfire F.IX and the P47-d11, both planes whoch outclimb, outgun, and outturn outgun the 109-g2 and 190 a5 at those altitudes (20-25000 ft). I personally dont think the D11 should have been included in the first frame, its a early '44 plane not a mid '42 one.
Hehe.. As janneh posted in his screen shot... What the F are you talking about Zig? In EVERY frame we flew against you, we were the low guys through the first half of the fight.
If you guys didn't want to fight up high.. you should have come right at us level and the fight would have never gotton over 18K.
That goes for all frames. And practice? Who could practice? My original tactical plan was also screwed not to mention the fact that most of my original registered pilots nevr even showed up.
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A good thing would be to have a squadron invitational event using the cage format.
Have squads clearly sign up, practice then execute the competition thus avoiding the usual change in plans when the event goes live.
In my experience the LW was above from the start, flew very aggresively, shot me down.
I did not plan or reherse for the event. I found the terrain stunning but the terrain textures made tracking very difficult for me.
Enjoyed my one frame very much.
Y
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teh spitfires were always co alt with us, we were never above them at start.. yes we were above the otehrs, but its hard to think when u have hispano armed planes coalt
hey you guys played by the ruels and won, you deserved the win! dont get aggitated :)
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I just want to comment on the fact that NEITHER side was cohesive squads that had practiced and had a plan. Heck, I showed up and said "hey Thunder, what do I do". :) Thunder said... fly a jug, go left with me, other three jugs go right. I hadn't even downloaded the terrain until 30 minutes earlier. We had walkons too, although I think less than the Axis. We never practiced, never talked strategy and tactics etc. Nobody was all serious about this on the Allied side... except maybe for Hang, and even he was just in this for toejams and giggles really. Both sides just showed up, had a flight lead say "go that way and kill things", and away we went. I for one had a blast, and I wouldn't have it any other way. :)
That was the extent of our big plan. I have only rarely flown with any of the guys I flew with, and none of 'em were squad mates. I did get RW going, which helped. Basically, we simply sent spits in low head-on while the others circled for position. After that it was a big free-for-all. In our cage 5 (SE cage) the Axis were higher every round starting out. I had 109's and 190's above me for 1/2 of all three flights. Generally we just ignored the high fellows and killed the low ones. After that the numbers were on our side, and we just waited for the LW go come down after us and get stuck-in.
Anyway, my point is that neither side was all serious and practiced up. This wasn't a major scenario, it was a fun, quick, fair little RUMBLE. Damn it was fun. Lets not over-analyse it.
<S> Allies and <S> worthy Axis opponents.
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Whot he said ^^^^ :)
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You forgot one more reason why the allied won, me and my wingman from the original LW rumblers didn't take part if we had we would've chased down those P-51's again :).
I'll be there for the next one though!
[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Professor Fate ]
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Vulcan,
I am not disagreeing with your basic premise but I am mentioning this just to give additional information for anyone reading.
3rd Round was completely off the scale. In our sector we had at least 3, maybe more, Tempests.
This is totaly correct from what you saw... There were 5 Tempests total allowed for the Allied side for the 3rd round by the rules. Hangtime chose to allocate ALL of them to me in Cage 5. He told me ahead of time it was my responsibility to try and get all five of them to the center cage for the final battle. Fortunatly (for me)his plan worked and they all survived and accounted for many of the kills. There were no other Tempests flying in round 3 in the other 4 cages. We were hoping that this imbalance would keep more Tempests alive for the final fight in the center cage later. That probably accounted for lopsidedness you saw in Cage five. But I am not sure if there was an Allied advantage in the other cages in Round 3. I don't know which planes were chosen to fight each other in the other cages. All in all win or lose I personally had a very fun time and gained a great respect for all of the pilots on both sides watching them fly in a closed environment.
Salute,
Thunder
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While I was unable to participate in this year's Rumble (had to pull out at the last minute because I had to work :( ), I was quite interested in how it would turn out.
After reading all the posts I could find, it seems to me that the Allies flew as a cohesive group and used teamwork. The Axis, on the other hand, seemed to fall apart. BOTH sides had newbies, both sides had no shows and had to make last second reassignments....all in all, each side experienced similiar problems getting things setup before the Rumble began.
With all due respect, the post about the planesets being disadvantageous to the Axis is way off. Gotta call BS on that one. If the FM's are correct, looking at the HTC performance charts shows the G2 holding the edge at 20-25K in climb over both the Jug and the Spit. The Jug was the fastest at that alt, and neither LW plane could turn with the Spit. The 190a5/Jug matchup looked to be the most even at those alts, and the 109 held the edge in climb all the way thru the alt range. As for the guns, well, no comment needed. Am not sure what the performance differences are between the Spit5 and 9, and the P47D-11 and D-30.....no charts available, but the planeset should not have been the difference. Looks like the Allies used better tactics all in all. Just my opinion, of course. :D
Congrats to the Allies! Wish I could have been there to join in the fun.
[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: eddiek ]
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and I was in that cave with all those bleeding tempests,,,,in my little Messy :D
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Yup Eddiek.. sounds like the Axis got caught with their pants down.
teamwork will get you everytime... or lack of it.
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier:
<snip> in my book a 3-0 WIN IS A ONE SIDED FIGHT.
And i suspect when the logs are complete they will only confirm that statement.
So look elsewhere for whining cos you aint getting any from me.
Got it ?
I apologize Cavalier....I simply read your statement the wrong way. I thought you were trying to say that the plane choices were one-sided and favored the Allies or that the numbers were one-sided and the Allies had better numbers. It was a simple misunderstanding.
<S> to you sir!!
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I would like to offer one more thing and thats a crisp button line <S> to those in this post it's great to see everyone keeping it civil compared to the ruckus that followed the last rumble, which if anyone gives a crap was the sole reason I stayed out of this one. But I'm now sorry I did, next time though :) WTG to all!
(http://members.home.net/winyah999/ProfFate.jpg)
I AM PROFESSOR FATE (http://members.home.net/winyah999/proffate.wav)
[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: Professor Fate ]
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Originally posted by Sancho:
Yep, we used Spits, jugs, and ponies in the SE cage near field 18. Original plan was to focus on jugs and P51s, but I had some guys who whined excessively about this :D and since the Rules of Engagement (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000018) (agreed on by both sides well before the fight) allowed me to pick whatever planeset I wanted, I added a small contingent of spits. They were the minority every frame and certainly didn't do all the killing, but they did rack up quite a record of kills. <S>
I think my particular whine went something like, "Hey Sancho! No Spit9?"
I think we were fortunate to have the Spits in Cage 1. Completely changed the dynamics of the fights for the Luftwobble.
<S>
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Good to see the positive attitudes here. After reflecting on the happenings of Saturday, I can say that the main reason I didn't do well was the fact that I was flying with unfamiliar fellas. They were great guys and good sticks, but I just wasn't used to hearing their voices on RW, so I wasn't sure who was who when they said they were in trouble, etc.
Unfortunately, my squad was split between three different cages. If ts, zig, newwguy, hamish, regurge and I coulda flown together during those 3 duels, the results (probably not the overall results) would have likely been different. We flew where hristo put us. Unfortunately some others expressed that they would not fly at all if they weren't all together with their squadron.
hristo did a great job, not to mention people like wmaker who had to step up at the last second to get a flight together. Getting any kind of flight together at the last minute in an organized event is tough, and wmaker did a great job with it.
Anyhow, there ya have it, we lost because of axis pilot apathy and seperated squaddies flying against a better motivated allied counterpart, and if you read the parser, you'll see we were always outnumbered by an average of 1 plane per cage each round. So, if ya look at the big picture, it is safe to say that we were beaten by a bunch of hacking, cheating, vulching, good fer nothin' bums.
Which brings me to the next issue, the need for a rematch. One that contains the best of the axis vs. the best of the allies. Like 20 vs. 20 or so? That sound ok? And it's not gonna be Pony D's vs. us in 109F's neither.
That is all.
:)
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***Edit*** Comment made in somewhat bad form and withdrawn.
[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: Zippatuh ]
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Hey hblair, I agree. Great to see the good attitudes here. Very different from last year. :) <S> All.
About the numbers...
I've looked at the parser results and can't find the 5 plane disparity in each round. For one thing, round 1 was hosed because I told folks to auger before daddog had a chance to close the logs - so I can't tell anything about what happened there. In the 2nd and 3rd rounds, it does look like a 1 to 2 man advantage *overall* (not per ring) by the Allies. You gotta check and see that in round 3, for example, 5 Allied take-offs were actually observers. Take them out of the equation and you've got only a 1-2 plane difference in the entire arena.
Plus there are a couple of things we can't see. Did any of the Allies see that their flight was over by one, and asked someone to auger? Maybe. Was it the Allies who upped with 1-2 people more than were allowed - or was there a snafu on the Axis side and they upped with 1-2 people short?
The CMs were whippin' around to the tunnels on take-offs counting the planes, and while we couldn't get to all of them, we saw nothing weird.
As far as a rematch goes, it's completely up to you. I'm not going to hold one at this scale for awhile now - but a 20 vs 20 is something that anyone here can organize. The terrain is now on the HTC server so get the pilots together, grab a CM or two and work out the details, and yer set. Someone's gotta pick me though because I'd *love* to fly in one of these things. :)
One thing that's going to fill the void here, and something that I'm really looking forward to, is the squad invitational event series that I've read about. I forget what it's being called and I no longer can find any links to it. Anyone know where I can find that again? Nothing like two well oiled squads dukin' it out.
Anyways, again, I'm real pleased about the the way everyone's handling the outcome of Rumble 2001... and I look forward to 2 oh 2.
<S>
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Hblair, you LuftWaffle scumbag. I have it on good authority that you and everyone in your group during the rumble were using a hack to make your planes perform better than spec and fire their guns backwards at will! Even with that advantage you were beaten. I have filmed it, and will be sending the film for Animal to review...he's HTC's new Grand Inquisitor, and he will get to the bottom of this.
Remember. No One expects the Puerto Rican Inquisition!
SOB
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Originally posted by SOB:
Remember. No One expects the Puerto Rican Inquisition!
Spanish. You Fat Drunk Bastard.
-SW
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Not adding fuel to the fire, but it would be interesting to check average Fighter rank of Allied and Axis participants.
The only squad that flew together on Axis side in the Rumble was Air Squadron. I believe its members got some great results.
Main difference was that Allied concentrated their flights on squads, while we had to work mostly with individuals. And even the flights which were organized had to be reorganized prior to the Rumble. Walk-ons and ad hoc formed flights. Assassins and LeLv34 were two squads I had in mind when we planned the rumble. Assassins got split between sectors, while LeLv34 came with only 1 pilot, Wmaker.
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<S!> To you Nash.. I had a blast. Thanks again for makin it possible.
Now Nash; one last request: send me yer snail mail addy; cause there's a present from Storm gonna be commin yer way. :)
On Rumble Tactics... as far as I'm aware; no cage's tactical plan survived contact with the runway. I had in hand a strat overview, and tactical plans from all Cage Leaders, they all sounded great. Even mine. Hell; I cracked this thing down into a list of possibilities; reactions; results; moves; counters... then when I knew they had the password I had to make smoke... kept me up nights worryin, it did.
When it got time to roll; they ALL got chucked in the crapper. They discovered, as I have; that in the cockpit; with the enemy's dots above you; it's too damn late for strat...
On rumble voice comms prior to the fight; I reminded all of em to brief their pilots on teamwork; to use wingman tactics and to fight as a group. I also cautioned 'em that staying alive was key to success; and to not be inna hurry to get into any fight with unidentified dots above it..
On basic cage layouts I installed a good squad, with a skilled leader in each to be that cage's core.. These guys were all skilled in teamwork; skilled in wing and section tactics and all of 'em had those skills tempered in the fires of bishland over the past coupla years. I had complete confidence in their ability to fight as good a fight as possible; they went in motivated to win; and they made it happen.
The walk on's and singletons just fleshed out those cages, and their contribution was critical too.. but the skilled core was already there in each one; and I never contemplated breaking them up or scattering them at random. The FIRST thing I did in the allied forum was make it possible for the squads to get themselves rostered as they saw fit; in the planes they wanted to fly, and gave them the authority to select the A/C from Hristo's list to be used in those cages.
To the largest degree possible; I simply delegated. Those guys knew how to fly.. in my mind all I had to do was point 'em at the plane lists; and then point 'em at the enemy with a "NO MA FURBALLIN DWEEBISHNESS" admonition. What a great buncha pilots.. damn, they made me so fediddlein proud. :)
Lastly.. yah I'd like to see more of these. they'll be even easier to do next time around. It was a shame the mission planner attempts went sour, would like to know why they failed. Squad duels sound like fun.. but my passion will remain for these Big Rumbles with over 100 fighters in the air; man; whotta show! It can always go either way..... and I can't wait for next years.
Hristo.. you are sadly lacking in Military Training.. or if you had any; you forgot it. [edit]It was within your prevue to establish your cage rosters and prepare.. you had time. Over a Month! You selected the planes; had your pick, I never ever questioned it; asked for a change or made a single modification. As overall Axis Commander; it was your responsibility to see to it your pilots had what they needed in hand to win... YOUR responsibility. The failure of the Axis to put up a good fight was not because your crews skills were lacking... YOURS WERE. Take responsibility for your lack of action, your complacency; your decit.... and apologize to those Axis crews fer lettin 'em down. They came to fight.. you never gave 'em the tools to do it with.
My DI would preach over and over.. (punctuated with whacks from his chicken stick and many hundreds of PT field laps and thousands of push-ups) the following refrain:
YOUfediddleINIDIOTS!!!! HOWMANYfediddleINTIMES I GOTTA TELLUGIRLS ABOUTTHE fediddleIN '7P's??'
PROPER PRIOR PLANNING PREVENTS PISS-POOR PERFORMANCE![/i] YAHBUNCHAfediddleIN donutHEADS!!! DROP; GIVE ME 20 MORE!
<S!> All.. and thanks for flyin. :)
[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: Hangtime ]
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
On basic cage layouts I installed a good squad, with a skilled leader in each to be that cage's core.. These guys were all skilled in teamwork; skilled in wing and section tactics and all of 'em had those skills tempered in the fires of bishland over the past coupla years. I had complete confidence in their ability to fight as good a fight as possible; they went in motivated to win; and they made it happen.
Ummm...with the exception of cage 4. That is where we were flyin'. :)
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Horeshit; Sling. :D
When they get motivated; the FDB's are natural born killers... ask any parachute.. :) We're very relaxed when it don't count... MA furballin is what we enjoy; and nobody takes a scorecard seriously. But I'm not confusing the diffrence between havin a good time uppin goons from a vulched field; and kickin bellybutton when the chips go down.
WTG FDB's. <S!>
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I was mostly referring to the "skilled leader" part there Hang...I mean c'mon....Fatty was our leader fer chrissakes!!! :D
[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: sling322 ]
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Hang, I see you stirring the pot. Military training ? If I only had a dollar for every live round I fired out of Ak-47 and PK ;).
The intention of turning Axis pilots against me is clearly visible, Hang. Hide it beter ;). We all did the best we could.
How could I fill cages with squads when there weren't any to work with ? It all looked good on paper, but only Air Squadron showed as full squad. They were deployed in same sector, I am not that stupid.
What about the rest ? To order each pilot to join a squad just for the Rumble ?
It was my intention to get an experienced Flight Leader in each sector. I did it and each sector had one. FLs had liberty to choose any pilot, any plane and any tactic they see fit. They did it. One of FLs cancelled, so he got replacement. The replacement did not show up so we found yet another replacement an hour before the Rumble. The Rumble was lost because players were ad hoc put in different cages with unfamiliar pilots. You can check our forum for all those recruitment threads. The pilots did their best for themselves, but teamwork is not something to come over night. It was my fear from the start - I started a post in June ("Luftwaffe exodus hurts the Rumble"). The core of Luftwaffe pilots left AH. Here lies the seed of the defeat.
Just as it was in real war, old hands were replaced by newbies who only provided the numbers.
I will go a step ahead. You did not fight any Luftwaffe squad in the Rumble. Just singletons and remains of former squads. 9./JG54 had 2 pilots. JG2 had 1, I believe.
In one sentence, Rumble was squads vs Singletons. Each did their best, Squads won. In all 5 cages, in all 3 fights.
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Now now Hang... :)
I don't think you can look at any one thing and point to a definitive reason for the outcome. Just a buncha small things that taken together spelled doom for the Axis this year. I couldn't assign any fault to Hristo's performance as CO from what I saw.
In fact, the one thing that struck me watching the two sides get organized is how simular they were. Both did as you say - assign flight leaders and delegate. Both delegated the rostering and plane selection, and both gave an overall tactical brief/s.
I don't think it *is* possible to look at this and completely negate the fact that yeah, the Axis side hadn't the squad cohesion that the Allies did. It was just an unfortunate reality for them. Some of the Axis flight leaders were very good, and some were rather less proactive/responsive. One of them *didn't even show up*.
But that's just the way it goes. The Rumble is just as much about what happens before the fight even starts as it is when the two sides meet in the air. And about playing the hand yer dealt. It *was* a tough one for Hristo this year, in my opinion. I think both of you guys did a remarkable job with what you had.
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Yeah.. yer right Nash. Thanks. :)
Sorry Hristo.. just couldn't resist the boot plant in yer bellybutton tho.. from where I was sittin; looked to me like you had the cards; made the shuffle; cut 'em and dealt 'em... even got some signals that could be called cheatin (password) then griped because you didn't get the top hand... and blamed somebody else insteada takin responsibility.
We had to sideline pilots.. I was sidelined myself in first fight. I had to make cage lead changes too.. one of my crack pilots and a cage lead folded day before the Rumble, never spoke a word to his replacement till an hour before the fight.... thing is; we didn't let it faze us, and went in there lookin to win a fight. No alt monkeyin; no runnin around and round the cage refusing to engage.. they fought.
The pilot skill disparity to which you refer I ain't buying into.. pilots I saw in cage 4 were competent.. shesssh, I'm sorry, but I still think it's a crock... Superstars, yours or mine could not have won this.. teamwork could and did. I still think you let yer guys down; but in the intrest of good future relations I'll concede this..
Yer pilots won our respect.. and admiration. I sure don't blame them[/i] for the rout. Note that the 'limpwhistle' noises are gone..
I'll leave it upta the resta you to decide why the axis lost better than 2/1 against 'inferior' planes. (spit factor my ass! lol!)
Ready fer a rematch yet?? hehehhehheee
(passes the toejam-stirrin stick)
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LOL Sling.. yah.. but I followed creamer around. The minute I let him outta my sight; I got killed. :)
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Nash,
Didn't Hristo make the flight assignments, just like Hangtime did?
If so, why did he not think to let the Assassins and other squads fly together? Hblair and the rest of the squad are a pretty formidable force when they fly together......to neglect to assign them to a common cage so they could utilize the teamwork they have developed over time is Hristo's fault.......I know the 56th FG was spread out over 2 or 3 cages, they made the best of it, worked with what they had, and did their best.
All I am seeing is excuses for losing. Just once I would like to see "We lost because it was not our day," or "Great fight, Allies. You deserved the win," or anything positive, without the "but we had (insert excuse/problem) to contend with."
"Spit factor", "jug D-11 shoud not have been there"......all excuses to make up for poor tactics, nothing else.
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Actually Eddick; he did congragulate us.. rather civilly too. Only thing that popped my cork was the dodge about his precious old squad that wasn't there... seemed to me like the guy had or has precious little confidence in or respect for the current group of AH LW pilots.. guys I fight against.. and lose to often enuff. They're plenty good; and I think they're gettin a sorry deal here. Not just now; but in the past too.. lotta "lufwhiner" handles were passed around undeservedly just cause they like flyin those ugly planes.
Mosta these guys are from the USA.. and just like flyin the LW planeset. I got this niggling little feeling tho... seems he's rather fond of the eastern bloc boys, and the resta of the guys flyin LW iron are imposters or somethin. ;)
I'm the one bein the horses-ass here, just because I wanna dig the bastard a bit.. hell I had to wait a year. :) Meanwhile, not fer nothin.. the LW pilots are ok in my book. Good fights, guys! <S!>
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Simple reason Eddiek.
They can't admit to defeat at the hands of superior pilots (you said that yourself Hristo) and superior wing tactics.
If it's your ego at stake, an over-inflated ego at that, then excuses come faster than the gloating.
It's not like this is the last fight, there will be more. For sure I will be there. Next time I might be on the opposite side of the fence. It doesn't phase me, I flew this for fun. I had nothing to lose, nothing at stake, it was all about fun for me.
-SW
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Actually hristo said on country channel just after the debacle that you guys flew smarter and more organized than we did, and his hat was off to them. hristo has been pretty cool about it from what I have seen. He's a much better sport than you guys wanna give him credit for.
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Dammit; Hblair; stop confusing the issue with facts!! Jesus christo; I'm just gettin up to the part where I get him pissed of...
:D
<S!> Hristo. My apologies. Nice fight.. you did well. Sorry yah got such a lousy pack of piss-poor psuedo luftwaffe pilots this time.. Yer right.. the old guys were better targets.
;)
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Hangtime, be gracious about it dude.
I wuv ya and respect ya, but don't disrespect Hristo. There's really no need to go for personal attacks; unless your intent is to have a flame war like after the last Rumble, where Hristo admittedly was rubbing it in.
I talked tactics with him on some occasions before the Rumble - he did plan.
Circumstances made the plans sort of invalid.
So, in yer personal rumble Hristo won. In this one, you won. Just hug and kiss and be friends now :)
And, I'll kill you dead in MA, you wealkingallied peasant runstang tractor driving farm boy.
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Thanks for your kind words guys! I had to say that I really didn't do a good job...I down right sucked. I just wanted to explain why things were like that. That there wasn't an experienced leader in the helm. Most definately wasn't a hero ;). I was pretty down because of what happened to our flight in the rumble and you guys really made my day!!!
*crisp <S>* Nino, Hblair and skernsk!!
-------------------
1Wmaker1
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/~paulusk/Lelv34.jpg)
[ 07-17-2001: Message edited by: Wmaker ]
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LOL Santa.. ok; ok; i know.. yer right; I know; yes; yes..
But dammit all ta hell; I just can't help myself. :)
Ok; lemme try again. (takes deep breath)
Hristo.. glad you could come; we had a great time. Was quite a surprise we did so well... and hope the next one goes a LITTLE bit better for the axis. ;) A handy salute to you; your men; and hope you'll all come do this again next year. I apologize fer any negative inference.. (DEEEP BREATH) ..and hope you'll view my commentary as just digs, innuendo and disrspect consistent with the original theme. :)
Wmaker.. nice flyin there in cage 4.. that was where I was; and as I've said many times before; I did not and do not consider your groups efforts as anything less than excellent. Good fights. Good work.. And I assure you I know exactly how yah feel. Hope to see you next time. :) <S!>
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Ohh hangtime yer too sweet <kisses and huggles and bundles of love>
Now get yer bellybutton back into that P-51; I need a target.
:D
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I think I'm gonna puke.
[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: hblair ]
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And Chow will be happy to hear that! :D
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Hmmm....didnt notice anyone in your squad named Chow.....is he a member of the AK's?
[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: sling322 ]
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Hblair...please.
It's bad enough your callsign rhymes with "Yak Balls", now you gotta make public your fetish with... Well, we'll leave it alone.
And don't say Chow is gay, Kak will have a fit.
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What is all this talk about chow?
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I just wish the Rumble never happened after all this.
The only losers in it all are the guys who still play AH and use GERMAN planes inside the game.
They were essentially told "Thanks for showing up, but you sucked compared to the people that left."
If it's any consolation, I'd take all of the guys that flew for the Axis side in the Rumble2K1 any day over the vocal ones that left.
THEY put up a hell of a fight with what they had.
-SW
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100
[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: SOB ]
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LOL Hblair, you slippery bastard! :D
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WTG ....... you guys got it over the Century mark! :) Next thing we will read in the paper is:
(http://www.applink.net/thunder/spoof/HB.jpg)
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LOL... gawd; I'd love to see what ol Hblair edited out. :)
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heh heh...it had something to do with "blowing Chow"....or something like that.
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Lol he originally said he was "ready to blow chow"
Needless to say none of us had a clue what he was on about :)
Btw Sling that other post forget it, no probs :)
[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: 214thCavalier ]
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BWAAAAAHH... that's fediddlein funny... man, nothin like droppin the soap, there hblair.. hell the server musta about chocked while everybody went to check the squad rosters lookin fer "chow"... ROFL!!
..and keep a good grip on yer keys too!
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I know not of what you speak.
:confused:
I have a friend who once owned a chow.
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PETA will be over shortly HB. You should be ashamed of yourself....abusing your friends dog like that. ;)
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Oh man, it's in the newspaper!
Look:
(http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/hblair/HB.jpg)
:D
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They screwed up and got Hang's picture mixed up with SOB. Wait a minute SOB was flying for the LW...or was he the "inside operative"
<opens can of worms> :)