Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: VonKost on February 15, 2011, 10:49:54 PM
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Hello all!
With the new screenshots I got a boost of excitement for the B-29 and thought I'd post my wife's great uncle's plane and story in order to ask some kind skinner to take on the project. It's a bit long winded so bear with me.
My great uncle's name was Robert Finneran and he was a 1st Lt in two B-29's that I have been able to track down via my research. He served with the real 444th and this is the motivation for making my squad in AH2.
My investigation began several months ago when AH2 announced the B-29, so you could say that AH2 spurred me to dig up this bit of history that I am very proud of. I remembered my Grandfather (He was in Alaska in the 11th AAF) telling me about his baby brother who was killed at Tinian during the war. I did a search on Robert Finneran and got very lucky on a google books search when a casualty list from the appendix of a book showed his name as a casualty of the 444th. Thus began the journey. (http://books.google.com/books?id=bLcMbtifiCkC&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=finneran+444th&source=bl&ots=VK1SS9Uohe&sig=asc486Ei6uIoRXqiNOgDuTvASPw&hl=en&ei=GlhbTYK3J4rqgQekjdHLDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFAQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=finneran%20444th&f=false)
I began doing research on ancestry.com and other sites. I found the 444th bomb group association (http://www.444thbg.org/) and that led me to the 58th bomb wing site. (http://www.neam.org/58th/bombwing.asp) I sent an email to the site and they forwarded it to a man in Cincinnati that was more familiar with the group. The only thing he was able to find about my uncle was a training accident report from 1944 which had no fatalities, but did list members of the crew and some of those crew members that were listed were listed as KIA at a future date. So we suspected my uncle may have been killed in a crash on May 16, 1945 at West field Tinian, but we had no way to confirm this. I thought I had the mystery solved when I found this account of the 5/16/45 crash: http://www.neam.org/profile.asp?ID=390. We found that Mr. Hall was still alive and well, so I picked up the phone and called him. Bless his heart he was out working in the car garage his family evidently runs, but he was happy to speak with me and a perfect gentleman. As he mentions, he was a substitute on the crew and he either did not know or remember the crews names. He was the main gunner and posted in the rear of the plane and my uncle being an engineer would have been behind the pilots in the nose of the plane. He said that the crew in the back all got out and away, but the crew in the nose all died in the fire. So it was great to talk to him, but I still could not confirm what happened to my uncle.
We were so close that I could taste it, the plane that crashed was serial number 44-70002. I had sent to the national archives for the aircraft cards for two airframes. 44-70002 and on a hunch, 42-24472. Both had served the 44th, one was older and one newer. 442-24472 was in India and a bit of an old hand in the 444th. 44-70002 was brand new and only arrived with the 444th at the beginning of May 1945. I still needed to confirm my uncle was on 44-70002 when it crashed, so I broke down and paid for the original accident report that was filed after the crash of 44-7002 in hopes of confirming what happened on that day. (http://www.accident-report.com/usaf.html) Then I waited for it to come.
Robert graduated from Notre Dame in 1942 and then joined the USAAF. He was my grandfathers baby brother and was a natural athlete and a typical young man from Columbus, Ohio. Being that he was an engineering officer on a B-29 this tells me that he was in the top 10th or so of his training classes.
I do not know exactly when he was posted to the 444th, but I know he was in India (he mentioned India in a letter) and then Tinian with the group. One of his childhood friend told my dad that he had something to do with the manhattan project, but I have not been able to confirm that. It may simple be that he was on B-29's in the states and they were the same planes training to drop the bomb. I know that he was not finished with his tour in May of 1945, so it stands to reason that he was doing something before late 44-45.
I found some photo's that my dad had of him before I got the accident report so I took them home and scanned them. he has a very distinctive look and is pretty easy to identify in photos. Here are the pics that I scanned.
This is an official type photo of him.
(http://www.444thbombgroup.com/images/pics/Scarf.jpg)
Here he is with some friends from the AAF.
(http://www.444thbombgroup.com/images/pics/Robert-friends.jpg)
This is my favorite of Robert and his older brother who is my wife's Grandfather.
(http://www.444thbombgroup.com/images/pics/Robert-George.jpg)
Explaining all this to the family was a very emotional experience as my father in law's middle name is Robert after his uncle who he of coarse never knew. I walked dad through the whole story as best as I could tell and told him that I was 90% sure that he was killed in the crash of 44-70002. This is when Dad brought out the above photos, a letter Robert wrote, his Purple Heart and a letter from President Truman. This was all very emotional. The letter he read me was received a few days after the telegram telling my great-grandmother that he was KIA and is full of confidence in his cause and typical disregard for the dangers of flying these missions. He speaks of his faith and says that he is not afraid to die knowing that he id fighting for a noble cause. Dad told me that grandpa told him that his and Roberts father passed away within a few days of each other and his mother had to hold a double funeral for her youngest son and husband within I believe a single week. This had to have been a very dark time for the family that most of use can only imagine. I realized at this point that this is the same sort of thing many families had to go through at that time when our nation was fighting this great war.
So several weeks later I received the accident report which is some 24 pages long. On the second page of the report it lists the crew involved and I finally can confirm that my great-uncle was killed in this crash on May 16th, 1945.
Here is the list of crew:
(http://www.444thbombgroup.com/images/pics/12402.jpg)
Here is a summary of the report:
(http://www.444thbombgroup.com/images/pics/12403.jpg)
So we finally have confirmation of what happened to my uncle, to my knowledge the family did not know what actually happened outside of him being killed on Tinian in an accident. I was very gratified to do this research and find the exact circumstances of what happened, but the story was not over yet and is not over still.
If you look at the crew on 44-70002 you will notice that the pilot is a Howard Mather. If you recall, I also knew Robert was in India, but 44-70002 was not. There must be at least one other B-29. 44-70002 was a new airframe that was shipped out to replace a war weary bird. I had a hunch that this was the case, but I can't remember why. I remembered that the 444th site had a picture of the Mather crew and I hopped over there to look at it again to see if I missed anything. (http://www.444thbg.org/677thsquadron.htm#2870551) If you check this page and scroll down to Sky Chief (42-24472) you will see two photographs and a few notes with them.
This is a color photo of 42-24472's nose art.
(http://www.444thbombgroup.com/images/pics/SkyChiefNA.jpg)
You can see in the notes on the site that the tail markings were as follows
CBI Markings: Diamond #64
Tinian Markings: Triangle N #64
But the most revealing part is the fact that is was returned as war weary on 6/12/1945. This adds credence to me suspicion that this was my uncles original plane, but the other photo there seals it for me.
This is a photo of the Mather Crew:
(http://www.444thbombgroup.com/images/pics/SkyChiefCrew-444thBGBook.jpg)
Lo and behold this is a picture of my Uncle's crew, the arrow points to the man who is the same man in the family photo's. This was my uncles plane, but I did not know when I looked before because I did not have any photo's to compare it to. With the accident report and the photo's, I have no doubt that this was his original crew and plane and they got a new one in early May of 1945 and this new one was the one they were killed in in the crash.
This is probably the longest skin request ever posted, but I thought maybe some of you would appreciate the history and the story of uncovering the history.
So if any of you skinners want to help me out, I'd love to see my Uncle's plane in the game, I can provide what other 444th aircraft looked like as far as tail markings and so forth and we have the nose art section in color even. It should be doable.
He was was a real hero who was killed in the line of duty serving his country.
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Excellent work on the research.
Someone make it so.
:salute
wrongway
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Great account, excellent research, and thankyou for sharing, :salute
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Beautiful story and glad you found out the facts about your great uncle.
Thank you and :salute :salute :salute. To the crew of Sky Chief, and your uncle i particular. :salute :salute :salute
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(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/b29444th.jpg)
Post this in the skins forum I am sure you will get a taker for this.
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Good stuff. Thanks for posting it :)
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Great work on finding info of your great uncle. :salute
I think in honor of your uncle and crew, their B-29 should be the first skin.
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This will at least give a skinner a good look as to how they all appeared early on.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/b29444th1.jpg)
Squadron patch.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/1_fd8b71d83e7b67c1ae8ceafdc58e3fda.jpg)
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Right on! I agree with this skin. I don't fly bombers but would be happy to participate in a memorial flight once we have this skin. Great story. Thanks for posting.
Boo
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Great story, thanks for sharing
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:salute to your Uncle and his crew
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Great story thanks
:salute to your Uncle
Concur with above. His plane should be skinned.
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Excellent! :salute to you and your family.
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I saw that the accident reported states that is the crash was believed to be a result of pilot error but also mentioned that the #4 engine was feathered. Does the report anywhere say why the engine was feathered?
Also noticed the "Hump" mission markings on your great-uncle's original B-29...man those must have been some hair raising flights.
<S> to your great uncle and I hope he gets honored with his B-29 being skinned.
ack-ack
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:salute
Awesome stuff
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:salute and thanks for posting that. Also :salute for all the work you did in your research.
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:salute Really hope to see the skin and would love to participate in a memorial flight.
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:salute
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Good job. I gotta tell you if this was my relative I would immediately throw away all my perkies to have an ingame name that reflects his, and I would fly that B-29 all the time.
Skin it please :salute
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Great Post, I knew that took a lot of work to get all that info :aok Yes, please skin this aircraft.
:salute
BigRat
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I saw that the accident reported states that is the crash was believed to be a result of pilot error but also mentioned that the #4 engine was feathered. Does the report anywhere say why the engine was feathered?
Also noticed the "Hump" mission markings on your great-uncle's original B-29...man those must have been some hair raising flights.
<S> to your great uncle and I hope he gets honored with his B-29 being skinned.
ack-ack
Engine 4 lost a magneto about an hour out. They thought maybe it just conked out and they could get it restarted, but no dice so they turned back to land at Tinian. They wanted to land, but control told then to fly ten miles out to sea and jettison their bombs. They did this then came back to land, this was on three engines. There was an investigation ordered by General LeMay's staff to determine if the plane had had it's instruments properly calibrated. The investigation said that everything seemed in order and the calibration flight took place a few days before the crash. The best guess is that the pilot was not used to flying on three engines. The report said that when they saw how low they were, they evidently applied power to the engine, but being that #4 was out the right wing dropped because of the uneven thrust and this is the wing that caught. Also being that there was still a great load of fuel on board, there was instant fire I guess. When I spoke to Azel Hall, he said that the group medical officer was on the scene and he put on a fire proof suit and went in to try and rescue the guys caught in the nose, but it was too late. Azel said this was the bravest thing he ever saw.
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great write up, thanks for all of the in site. My dad was navigator/bombardier on b24's in the Pacific, later on was in b29. One bit of information I received from my mom, of the 18 planes in his squadron, The crew he was on was the only crew that completed their tour without loosing any members of that crew, even through some were injured. He died from injuries received when his b24 crashed in the jungle. That was about 10 years later, I was 11 at that time in 1954. I have his complete service record, listing all the difference bomb groups he was assigned to, along with each base he was stationed.
Dhawk
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:salute
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:salute Thank you for posting and sharing that with us.
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Many Salutes to Greebo who has volunteered to skin it! :salute :salute :salute
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,299998.60.html
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D*@$ straight...
Greebo's a good <S>
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Hello,
I recently started to search information about my dad on his B-29 missions and came across your posts...great information, thanks very much for all of your research and follow up!
My dad, Robert LeBreck, was also a member of the Mather crew that included your Great Uncle - he was the radar operator who was positioned in the rear of the aircraft and survived the crash. He passed away 5 years ago, but my mother is still alive and very active/alert and she has an excellent memory of this time if their lives. Shortly after they were married, my dad was sent to radar/mechanic school in Chicago and then off to Great Bend, Kansas to begin training for the B-29. My mom explains how nervous she was as they were training for an aircraft that was new and unproved.
Couple of things my mom has explained to me...I assume the crews remained together for their duration unless one became ill or was killed, if this is the case, then there was another crash that your Great Uncle was involved in. I don't have many details other than they made a water landing and were in a raft for 15+ hours at sea when a ship approached them. Based on the conversations, they thought it was a Japanese ship and that they were going to be taken POW. However, it was a British ship that had some 'friendly' natives on board that help aid in their rescue and eventual return back to their base at West Field in Tinian Islands. All of the crew survived and they resumed their duties that eventually led to the flight that crashed and killed your Great Uncle. All members of the forward portion of the B-29 were killed. My mom remembers a conversation with my dad whereby he explained that he got up from his radar seat (positioned behind the painted star on the fuselage) and told the rear gunner that he thought they were coming in very slow. Shortly afterward, the plane crashed and you explained in your post and one of the engines busted through where my dad would've been seated had he not gone to speak with the rear gunner. He suffered shrapnel wounds, but was able to return to service.
My mom has the same picture of the plane and crew that you posted. I am not certain of the chain of events regarding the aircraft they are pictured with as it relates to their water rescue...still trying to investigate, but my mom is certain that the water event occurred before the crash on Tinian.
My dad never like to speak much about his memories from the war - based on what these guys experienced at such a young age, I couldn't blame him.
If you have any interest in speaking with my mom, I will be happy to put you in touch with her.
Let's try to stay connected and share any additional information either of us come across.
Thanks,
Steve LeBreck
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Hello,
I recently started to search information about my dad on his B-29 missions and came across your posts...great information, thanks very much for all of your research and follow up!
My dad, Robert LeBreck, was also a member of the Mather crew that included your Great Uncle - he was the radar operator who was positioned in the rear of the aircraft and survived the crash. He passed away 5 years ago, but my mother is still alive and very active/alert and she has an excellent memory of this time if their lives. Shortly after they were married, my dad was sent to radar/mechanic school in Chicago and then off to Great Bend, Kansas to begin training for the B-29. My mom explains how nervous she was as they were training for an aircraft that was new and unproved.
Couple of things my mom has explained to me...I assume the crews remained together for their duration unless one became ill or was killed, if this is the case, then there was another crash that your Great Uncle was involved in. I don't have many details other than they made a water landing and were in a raft for 15+ hours at sea when a ship approached them. Based on the conversations, they thought it was a Japanese ship and that they were going to be taken POW. However, it was a British ship that had some 'friendly' natives on board that help aid in their rescue and eventual return back to their base at West Field in Tinian Islands. All of the crew survived and they resumed their duties that eventually led to the flight that crashed and killed your Great Uncle. All members of the forward portion of the B-29 were killed. My mom remembers a conversation with my dad whereby he explained that he got up from his radar seat (positioned behind the painted star on the fuselage) and told the rear gunner that he thought they were coming in very slow. Shortly afterward, the plane crashed and you explained in your post and one of the engines busted through where my dad would've been seated had he not gone to speak with the rear gunner. He suffered shrapnel wounds, but was able to return to service.
My mom has the same picture of the plane and crew that you posted. I am not certain of the chain of events regarding the aircraft they are pictured with as it relates to their water rescue...still trying to investigate, but my mom is certain that the water event occurred before the crash on Tinian.
My dad never like to speak much about his memories from the war - based on what these guys experienced at such a young age, I couldn't blame him.
If you have any interest in speaking with my mom, I will be happy to put you in touch with her.
Let's try to stay connected and share any additional information either of us come across.
Thanks,
Steve LeBreck
Thank you for sharing. :aok
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:salute To you and the Crew :salute Im gonna go fly one right now! :salute
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:salute
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Hello,
I recently started to search information about my dad on his B-29 missions and came across your posts...great information, thanks very much for all of your research and follow up!
My dad, Robert LeBreck, was also a member of the Mather crew that included your Great Uncle - he was the radar operator who was positioned in the rear of the aircraft and survived the crash. He passed away 5 years ago, but my mother is still alive and very active/alert and she has an excellent memory of this time if their lives. Shortly after they were married, my dad was sent to radar/mechanic school in Chicago and then off to Great Bend, Kansas to begin training for the B-29. My mom explains how nervous she was as they were training for an aircraft that was new and unproved.
Couple of things my mom has explained to me...I assume the crews remained together for their duration unless one became ill or was killed, if this is the case, then there was another crash that your Great Uncle was involved in. I don't have many details other than they made a water landing and were in a raft for 15+ hours at sea when a ship approached them. Based on the conversations, they thought it was a Japanese ship and that they were going to be taken POW. However, it was a British ship that had some 'friendly' natives on board that help aid in their rescue and eventual return back to their base at West Field in Tinian Islands. All of the crew survived and they resumed their duties that eventually led to the flight that crashed and killed your Great Uncle. All members of the forward portion of the B-29 were killed. My mom remembers a conversation with my dad whereby he explained that he got up from his radar seat (positioned behind the painted star on the fuselage) and told the rear gunner that he thought they were coming in very slow. Shortly afterward, the plane crashed and you explained in your post and one of the engines busted through where my dad would've been seated had he not gone to speak with the rear gunner. He suffered shrapnel wounds, but was able to return to service.
My mom has the same picture of the plane and crew that you posted. I am not certain of the chain of events regarding the aircraft they are pictured with as it relates to their water rescue...still trying to investigate, but my mom is certain that the water event occurred before the crash on Tinian.
My dad never like to speak much about his memories from the war - based on what these guys experienced at such a young age, I couldn't blame him.
If you have any interest in speaking with my mom, I will be happy to put you in touch with her.
Let's try to stay connected and share any additional information either of us come across.
Thanks,
Steve LeBreck
Great Bend, Pratt, Hays and Salina where all Army air base for B-29. I have been at the field that still have bomb craters from the B-29 near Schoenchen, Kansas. I bet them boys flew the B-29 low over the German prison camp in Hays, Kansas.
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:salute.. thanks for sharing..
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Great stories! Sad, especially since it seems like one that could've been avoided
(usage of flaps, stalling)
Sadest part is, it happened so close to the end of the war.
It's amazing that 2 people here have relatives that served together!
:salute To the crews, must have been some anxious times on all the flights,
especially at such young ages.
:cheers: Oz
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Hello,
I recently started to search information about my dad on his B-29 missions and came across your posts...great information, thanks very much for all of your research and follow up!
My dad, Robert LeBreck, was also a member of the Mather crew that included your Great Uncle - he was the radar operator who was positioned in the rear of the aircraft and survived the crash. He passed away 5 years ago, but my mother is still alive and very active/alert and she has an excellent memory of this time if their lives. Shortly after they were married, my dad was sent to radar/mechanic school in Chicago and then off to Great Bend, Kansas to begin training for the B-29. My mom explains how nervous she was as they were training for an aircraft that was new and unproved.
Couple of things my mom has explained to me...I assume the crews remained together for their duration unless one became ill or was killed, if this is the case, then there was another crash that your Great Uncle was involved in. I don't have many details other than they made a water landing and were in a raft for 15+ hours at sea when a ship approached them. Based on the conversations, they thought it was a Japanese ship and that they were going to be taken POW. However, it was a British ship that had some 'friendly' natives on board that help aid in their rescue and eventual return back to their base at West Field in Tinian Islands. All of the crew survived and they resumed their duties that eventually led to the flight that crashed and killed your Great Uncle. All members of the forward portion of the B-29 were killed. My mom remembers a conversation with my dad whereby he explained that he got up from his radar seat (positioned behind the painted star on the fuselage) and told the rear gunner that he thought they were coming in very slow. Shortly afterward, the plane crashed and you explained in your post and one of the engines busted through where my dad would've been seated had he not gone to speak with the rear gunner. He suffered shrapnel wounds, but was able to return to service.
My mom has the same picture of the plane and crew that you posted. I am not certain of the chain of events regarding the aircraft they are pictured with as it relates to their water rescue...still trying to investigate, but my mom is certain that the water event occurred before the crash on Tinian.
My dad never like to speak much about his memories from the war - based on what these guys experienced at such a young age, I couldn't blame him.
If you have any interest in speaking with my mom, I will be happy to put you in touch with her.
Let's try to stay connected and share any additional information either of us come across.
Thanks,
Steve LeBreck
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Von Kost
Great work. Do you know where your uncle was buried? I cannot seem to find his Findagrave.com memorial.
I came across 1LT Robert Finneran while doing a blog for all the Notre Dame grads and students who died during WWII. Below is a link to his profile on my blog. Please help me with any edits you may think are necessary. Thank you.
https://notredamewwiifallenblog.blogspot.com/2021/10/1st-lt-robert-f-finneran-nd-42-usaaf.html