Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: hellwolf on February 17, 2011, 04:38:41 PM

Title: still confused
Post by: hellwolf on February 17, 2011, 04:38:41 PM
In a recent post I asked how scoring worked, some good replies informed me that 5 elements decided  fighter ranking.

I propose a new element is required.  A minimum sortie level before you are ranked at all!!

So far this month I have done the ususal, attack bases, defend bases.  When checking the score in the roster yesterday, I have flown 108 sorties have a K/D ratio of 1.81 and 8539 points, that equated to a rank of #536. Not great but ok for a relative noob.

I noticed on the roster another player whos name Id never seen before had a fighter rank of #170.  Thought id check his score to see how much I had to improve to get to this rank.

Well he had flown 2 sorties, for 4 kills and no deaths and 200 points!!!!!!!!!

Hell I had similar score at the begining of the month after playing for 20 minutes.

Ranking players under this format is a waste of time.  How about a 20 or so sortie minimum before ranking applies, or do away with ranking altogether since it bears no relation to in game performance.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: guncrasher on February 17, 2011, 05:42:15 PM
Totally agree with you. but this is one wish you won't win. 

Semp
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Dichotomy on February 17, 2011, 05:54:16 PM
You'll be much happier if you don't worry about your score.  One less thing to obsess over. 
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: gyrene81 on February 17, 2011, 06:18:23 PM
You'll be much happier if you don't worry about your score.  One less thing to obsess over. 
absolute best advice for the op...  :aok
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Beefcake on February 17, 2011, 06:27:28 PM
Helwolf trust me on this one buddy, just forget your rank, score, anything that compares you to other players. You will enjoy the game 200% more when you don't care about deaths and kills.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Tupac on February 17, 2011, 06:51:22 PM
You'll be much happier if you don't worry about your score.  One less thing to obsess over. 

+1
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: The Fugitive on February 17, 2011, 09:02:15 PM
In a recent post I asked how scoring worked, some good replies informed me that 5 elements decided  fighter ranking.

I propose a new element is required.  A minimum sortie level before you are ranked at all!!

So far this month I have done the ususal, attack bases, defend bases.  When checking the score in the roster yesterday, I have flown 108 sorties have a K/D ratio of 1.81 and 8539 points, that equated to a rank of #536. Not great but ok for a relative noob.

I noticed on the roster another player whos name Id never seen before had a fighter rank of #170.  Thought id check his score to see how much I had to improve to get to this rank.

Well he had flown 2 sorties, for 4 kills and no deaths and 200 points!!!!!!!!!

Hell I had similar score at the begining of the month after playing for 20 minutes.

Ranking players under this format is a waste of time.  How about a 20 or so sortie minimum before ranking applies, or do away with ranking altogether since it bears no relation to in game performance.

Like everyone said, compare YOUR score to YOUR score only anything else will just drive you nuts.

Technically speaking that guy that has 4 kills in two flights with zero deaths deserves a better rank because he hasn't died...you have, his kill per sortie is higher and so on. The score/ranking system is built this way to give guys who fly a few hours a month a chance to to keep up with those who fly a hundred hours a month.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: guncrasher on February 18, 2011, 01:00:37 AM
hellwolf it basically comes down to this, scores with such low numbers are really a way to game the rank.  most people that rank really high, you will find that you can beat them 1v1 with one hand tied behind your back, while the other is holding a beer.  the only skill they have is at scoring.  most people that really have skill never bother to play the rank game, so they never rank high but you meet them and you will know, who they are.

trying to change the ranking system we have now to really get rid of these "low" number of sorties is useless.  we have tried many times before, but for some reason these guys are a protected class all in itself.  and I am not saying they're protected by ah, but by other players who feel their own rank will be threatened also.

so forget trying to understand the ranking system and enjoy the game.  and smile every time you wipe the floor with a superstar.

semp



Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Lusche on February 18, 2011, 01:04:15 AM
and I am not saying they're protected by ah, but by other players who feel their own rank will be threatened also.


lolz


How can "other players" protect the rank system? It's HT's sole decision how it works.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: hellwolf on February 18, 2011, 05:50:35 AM
thanks for replies.  I dont really care about rank or score, just feel frustrated with any system that has no internal logic.

Seems like this problem has been noted before, and remedies are not on the horizon.  So, I will take your advice and not even look at rankings anymore.

 :salute
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: FLS on February 18, 2011, 07:21:12 AM
Hellwolf it is both simple and logical. The other player has a better ranking then you have because they have better combined rankings. You state that you have one ranking that is better by virtue of having played more. You would like this one ranking to improve the overall ranking that you claim to not care about. Then some other players, most of whose rankings are worse than yours, would now get ranked higher than you because they are online more than you are. Your overall ranking would drop further, and instead of getting ranked behind somebody with better stats, you would now be ranked behind people with worse stats. And you would consider this to be more logical, and your lower rank wouldn't bother you because you don't care about score and rank.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: B4Buster on February 18, 2011, 08:52:35 AM
Hellwolf, that is exactly how score guys play the system as far as fighter rank goes.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: hitech on February 18, 2011, 01:31:17 PM
hellwolf, you seem to think k/d and points is all that counts?

What were the differences in the other items like kills per sortie, kills per time and hit %.

When I look at your score I see you are ranked 1596 in hit %, this is a big detriment to your fighter ranking.

2nd You all ready do have a big advantage over the people who fly just one sortie. Look at your POINTS rank and the other persons POINTS rank. I'm sure you have way above him in that rank, because points is what gives the person who flies more the advantage.

Title: Re: still confused
Post by: perdue3 on February 18, 2011, 01:59:01 PM
HiTech has explained it well.

All 5 stats go towards your fighter rank, those being: Kill Points, K/D, K/S, Kill/Hr, and hit %

IF 2 of those are great and 3 are bad you will have an average score. If all are great you will have a great score.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: hellwolf on February 18, 2011, 11:10:43 PM
A few posts here have missed the point.  The scoring system is not logical since it discourages you from actually playing the game.

If for instance we went to play golf and I birdie the first two holes, then under this scoring system I should quit then, since Ill be 2 under.  Ill just take the risk that other players over the 18 holes wont do better. In golf you either play 9 or 18 holes and add up the score, not add it up when you have the best score you might achieve for the day.

Title: Re: still confused
Post by: hellwolf on February 18, 2011, 11:39:05 PM
Perhaps a better explantion would be: If someone flys 1 mission and scores 10 kills, then 4 of the 5 elements that make up fighter score will be high.  Only kill points will be low.  If I fly 100 missions, unless Im awesome, then I will be ahead in only 1 of the 5 elements.

To take the golf example again, The number of drives per hole, iron shots and puts per hole, birdies per hour etc will be better over 2 holes than 18.
If the 5 elements are all equally weighted, then its impossible to have a better score the more you play. (super aces excepted)

We all have the odd mission that goes well, if it happens to be your first one then its better (under the scoring system) not to up again.  This just does not make sense.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: The Fugitive on February 19, 2011, 08:49:21 AM
And golf has a handycap system other wise those that are very good would ALWAYS crush those of us that are not.

The HTC score system is set up to reward players that score well on ALL aspects of the game, as well as all aspects of each part of the game. Below are two players scores The player on the left has a better K/d and K/S, they are even for kills per hour, and hit%, but player 2 has a better Kill points.  All in all these two players are very close. One could have gotten his score in 10 flights, while the other may have 100 flights.  So they are still close in over all "skill" (and I use that word VERY loosely when talking scores). Scores are based on "quality" not "quantity", if it was not it would be like saying a golfer playing 4 rounds should have a better score than one playing one round.

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/scores.jpg)

The other side of the coin is the score system can easily by tweaked. Scoring hits with cannon rounds will increase your "kill points" Bailing from your aircraft instead of riding it in increases your K/D. Targeting buffs increases your hit percentage. Like anything else sandbagging and score padding is going to happen. Some people are in this game ONLY to score the best and do what ever it takes to get there. Like in a pool league, or bowling league you have players that sandbag so they can get their handicaps in a place to get ahead of the other teams when they need to. Human nature no longer allows for people to give it 100% all the time. So comparing your score to others is a waste of time unless you KNOW the player your comparing to plays the game the same way you do.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Lusche on February 19, 2011, 08:55:47 AM
Bailing from your aircraft instead of riding it in increases your K/D.

It does not. A bail is a "death" for K/D purposes. It only has some influence on your score points.


So comparing your score to others is a waste of time unless you KNOW the player your comparing to plays the game the same way you do.

+1

I often look at other player's score, but not to see if he's a better pilot, but just out of curiosity how he does play the game. To me, it's like a kinda business card showing a player's profile (and only to a much lesser extend his general skill level)
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: The Fugitive on February 19, 2011, 09:02:35 AM
It does not. A bail is a "death" for K/D purposes. It only has some influence on your score points.

No it counts as a bail. Which is why it has that catagory. As to how it effects ranking, I know I bail as soon as my plane can no longer fight. Seeing as that is how I get out of MOST of my fights my K/D would be much lower than it is if they were posted as "deaths" in the K/D.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Lusche on February 19, 2011, 09:05:04 AM
No it counts as a bail.

I suggest you take some fighter scores and calculate if it does. You might be surprised ;)

Example: My Score last tour:


(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1516/snail1322.jpg)
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9140/snail132.jpg)



K/D Shown 7.95
Kills: 505
I had 17 bails, 8 captured, 37 deaths, 1 disco (=0.5 deaths)

IF bail would not count as death should be  505/(8+37+0,5+1)=10.86
But it is 7.95, which results from 505/(17+8+37+0,5+1)=7.95

Title: Re: still confused
Post by: The Fugitive on February 19, 2011, 09:17:17 AM
I must bow to the ultimate chart man!   :D I didn't realize that I was getting that GOOD !  :neener:
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Lusche on February 19, 2011, 09:19:53 AM
I didn't realize that I was getting that GOOD !  :neener:

 :lol  :aok
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Flipperk on February 19, 2011, 10:43:38 AM
For those that say you will enjoy the game much more if you just ignore it, you have to realize that there is two types of players in this game. One is of course the guys who love aviation, the flight characteristics, and the fight. The other player is the competitive one, the one who likes to be the best and tries to "game" the game. Believe it or not, they enjoy the same game as much as anyone else, it is just from a different perspective.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: hitech on February 19, 2011, 11:16:39 AM
Perhaps a better explantion would be: If someone flys 1 mission and scores 10 kills, then 4 of the 5 elements that make up fighter score will be high.  Only kill points will be low.  If I fly 100 missions, unless Im awesome, then I will be ahead in only 1 of the 5 elements.

To take the golf example again, The number of drives per hole, iron shots and puts per hole, birdies per hour etc will be better over 2 holes than 18.
If the 5 elements are all equally weighted, then its impossible to have a better score the more you play. (super aces excepted)

We all have the odd mission that goes well, if it happens to be your first one then its better (under the scoring system) not to up again.  This just does not make sense.

You seem to be stuck on the 1 mission and do not understand the rank, just because someone is good in 4 and bad in 1 does not mean they will rank well. If a person only flies 1 mission their point category will be well toward the bottom and  hence not rank very well. This is the same as why your hit % is making your overall rank so bad.

Look at the example luche just posted 215 sorties. And #4 rank. His rank total is around 250, if you fly only one sortie, even if you were number 1 in 4 of the categorizes, your point rank would be 2000 or more by the end of the tour and hence your rank total/sum would be 2004 or more.

HiTech
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Coronado on February 19, 2011, 12:18:30 PM
SCORE......RANK....  PFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
As long as i keep a fighter and GV perk level at 500, I'm happy.
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: hellwolf on February 19, 2011, 04:45:17 PM
Sorry to carry on with this but wont be happy until I understand this system!!

If as you tell me, your fighter rank is made up of your combined rank in 5 different equally weighted catergories then please explain how ie, what mathmatical system You use.

I ranked in the 5 catergories #475, #583,#646,#1632,#208.  Therefore according to your posts, to reveal my overall rank I should add these ranks together and divide by 5.  This would give me a rank of #708, however my actual rank is #532.

To take another (one of the top players scores)  #27,#50,#312,#161,#42  rank should be #118, but is ranked #21.

My maths isnt great but I still cant work out how you arrive at this number!!

My suspicion is that the 5 catergories are NOT equally weighted. 
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Lusche on February 19, 2011, 04:56:48 PM
Sorry to carry on with this but wont be happy until I understand this system!!

If as you tell me, your fighter rank is made up of your combined rank in 5 different equally weighted catergories then please explain how ie, what mathmatical system You use.

I ranked in the 5 catergories #475, #583,#646,#1632,#208.  Therefore according to your posts, to reveal my overall rank I should add these ranks together and divide by 5.  This would give me a rank of #708, however my actual rank is #532.

You are thinking too complicated. It's much easier.

You get a rank number in all sub-categories.  like #475, #583,#646,#1632,#208. These rank numbers are simply added. Total number = 3544.
This is done for every player. The player with lowest total sum is #1.  The player with second lowest sum is #2, and so on. All players that have a sum of less than your 3544 are ranked better than you. All with a higher sum are ranked worse. All sub categories are weighed the same.

Overall rank works the same: Sum of Fighter, attack, Bomber, GV rank. Player with lowest total = #1 overall.


Check the top 10 top ranked players of last tour and do the math :)

Example for Fighter Rank, Tour 132:

I had #43, #50, #109, #38, #6 = total 246, fighter rank:4

TwinTail had #35, #35, #44, #54, #3 = total 168. That's better than mine, so he had fighter rank 3. The guy with fighter rnak 2 had an even lower sum than TwinTail.

Kazaa had #12, #8, #11, #38, #228  = total 297. Worse than mine so he was #5. And guess what? He was ranked worse than me, because he didn't fly enough fighter sorties. His much better K/D, K/S, K/H didn't help him. So you can see, we already have what you are asking for ;)

EDIT: ok, to make it even more clear:

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/5562/examplefj.jpg)
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Guppy35 on February 19, 2011, 05:45:37 PM
Just to prove it's just numbers

my K/D flying 51B/D and Spit VIII is 9

My K/D flying 38Gs, 39s and 25Cs is .96


As near as I can tell is that either I suck or I'm not bad depending on what I fly and how :)

Not much point in worrying about it I figure :aok
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: hellwolf on February 19, 2011, 06:19:35 PM
ty lusche I can sleep tonight. :aok
Title: Re: still confused
Post by: Dichotomy on February 19, 2011, 06:52:25 PM
SO NO MORE WORRYING ABOUT SCORE!!!!  :furious

Get out there and KILL KILL KILL!!!  :devil

Oh and fly AVA...