Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Penguin on February 24, 2011, 03:12:30 PM
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Ever hear of QWERTY UIOP? It's the name of your keyboard, and it's costing you at least 20 words per minute, along with associated typing errors. In fact, it was designed to slow you down by placing common keys far away from each other. Dvorak, on the other hand, is the correct setup, and does not require any new equipment (only a paperclip to yank up keys).
My questions-
Who here has heard of Dvorak?
Who here uses it?
What are your opinions on it?
Is it possible to know both layouts for versatility and speed?
How do I set it up for Vista?
-Penguin
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You cannot move the keys around on a keyboard and expect the operating system to know about it. It takes a new keyboard, or hacking up the operating system to assign new characters to the original scan codes.
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"remap the keyboard" is the term you are looking for. A search might give you your answer. I'm a 2 finger typist so I dont think a different keyboard will help me. been doing it this way for over 30 years now.
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Really? Weird. It shows me in the control panel that I can change the layout of the keyboard. That's where the problem is, I can't get it to recognize the new settings. How do I remap the keyboard?
-Penguin
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Really? Weird. It shows me in the control panel that I can change the layout of the keyboard. That's where the problem is, I can't get it to recognize the new settings. How do I remap the keyboard?
-Penguin
http://www.microsoft.com/enable/training/windowsxp/keyboardlayout.aspx
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Thank you ded.
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I use Vista, though.
-Penguin
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I use Vista, though.
-Penguin
Should be very similar. Set the control panel to classic view (or what ever they call it lol). Should look very similar after that.
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Thank you ded.
Funny actually, someone was asking about it here this morning lol
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In high school, we had to pass keyboarding to graduate. In that class, the final was to type a couple paragraphs that were in our book and average no less that 55 words per minute with less than 6 mistakes, and there was a cover over the keyboard so you couldn't look down to type. You had to know the keyboard and be able to type without taking your eyes off of what you were copying into a word document. I think I'll keep using the keyboards layout I learned.
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But with Dvorak, that would be a breeze.
-Penguin
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But with Dvorak, that would be a breeze.
-Penguin
I don't see how rearranging a keyboard would make you type faster. You still have to learn the position of each key.
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I don't see how rearranging a keyboard would make you type faster. You still have to learn the position of each key.
One of the ideas behind alternate layouts is to make the key more accessible for writes not using a 10-finger system. For example by arranging the most used keys on the middle row and putting rarely used keys into more "remote" areas.
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But with Dvorak, that would be a breeze.
-Penguin
Somehow unlearning 30+ years of qwerty to learn a 'new' keyboard layout just doesn't appeal to me. If you really think it will help you....go for it!
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Only problem I see is if your computer runs into a problem and you need to do some stuff to fix it in DOS or safe mode, you'll need to keep a QWERTY board stashed somewhere. If they start manufacturing alternative layout styles that look apealing to me I may give it a try, but pulling apart a QWERTY with a paperclip doesn't seem the way to really do it for me, ontop of as apealing as learning a new layout apears to me.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/KB_United_States_Dvorak.svg/800px-KB_United_States_Dvorak.svg.png)
Eww
Punctuation keys at the top? The most unused letter in our alphabet... front and center?
I don't see how this is any better than QWERTY. Surely, even if it were, it would be more of a pain to relearn it than the payoff would be.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/KB_United_States_Dvorak.svg/800px-KB_United_States_Dvorak.svg.png)
Eww
Punctuation keys at the top? The most unused letter in our alphabet... front and center?
I don't see how this is any better than QWERTY. Surely, even if it were, it would be more of a pain to relearn it than the payoff would be.
It's not apealing to me because I'm a south-paw (I still shoot and do a lot of things righty with my dominant eye, but most things I'm a lefty at). That style seems heavily right-hand dependent, and I assume off the bat I will like QWERTY over it because QWERTY seems more friendly to my south-paw.
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Heard of it, the intern I used to work with had his desktop computer set to use Dvorak as the default, using a standard keyboard. No need to chop anything up. He didn't even move his keys around, because he was smart enough to know which key corresponded with which from qwerty to dvorak.
But if I for whatever reason need to log in on his computer, or log him off his account (I forget actually if it was tied to his account or his computer), it was a major major hassle to figure out how to type the administrator password.
My opinion is that it wasn't worth the hassle. My job has never required me to eek out a few more words per minute such that learning dvorak would be worth the effort.
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Don't do it Penguin. You'll look like a tard when you get a job and can't function using a normal keyboard. They'll think you are a kook if you have to bring in your own keyboard to work. Not to mention the fact that all laptops which you will be using someday have qwerty setup. Any marginal gains in typing efficiency will be lost in not feeling comfortable using a standard keyboard. Besides, I think 100 words a minute is fast enough with this inefficient thing.
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LOL @ dvorak weirdo's, I thought they'd become extinct and all died out. What's next ... you gonna start using CPM?
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I remember sitting in Comp. Engineering class one time and this kid liked to look away and type to show off so I made a program that "remapped" his keys so when he pushed D and L would pop up etc. etc.
He said he was going to write a 1500 word essay without looking...sooooo when he went to go grab a snack before he started - BAM - here we go :D - that was a great day :) :ahand
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Don't do it Penguin. You'll look like a tard when you get a job and can't function using a normal keyboard. They'll think you are a kook if you have to bring in your own keyboard to work. Not to mention the fact that all laptops which you will be using someday have qwerty setup. Any marginal gains in typing efficiency will be lost in not feeling comfortable using a standard keyboard. Besides, I think 100 words a minute is fast enough with this inefficient thing.
They aren't marginal gains, first of all. Nextly, learning to touch type is no problem for me.
-Penguin
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LOL @ dvorak weirdo's, I thought they'd become extinct and all died out. What's next ... you gonna start using CPM?
No...more likely EBCDIC.
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You cannot move the keys around on a keyboard and expect the operating system to know about it. It takes a new keyboard, or hacking up the operating system to assign new characters to the original scan codes.
Really? Several versions of windows offered "US 101 key Dvorak" or some equivalent key mapping when choosing the language during installation. Didn't look for it in win7, but it sure used to be there. Dvorak layout has been an option in every linux distribution I've ever installed (about 10 various distros in maybe 30 versions since 1992).
It isn't really an OS hack to change language...
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I just found another great way to screw with someone at work. :devil
Thank you, very much! :aok
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The only reason the qwerty layout was developed was to try to prevent mechanical typewriters from jamming up. However, most of us have no desire to learn a new layout...
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Really? Several versions of windows offered "US 101 key Dvorak" or some equivalent key mapping when choosing the language during installation. Didn't look for it in win7, but it sure used to be there. Dvorak layout has been an option in every linux distribution I've ever installed (about 10 various distros in maybe 30 versions since 1992).
It isn't really an OS hack to change language...
Moving the keys around does not change the scan codes sent by the key. Yes, the DVorak layout has been supported for a very long time, but the scan codes for the keyboard are the same as the QWERTY. This allows games to work as they depend on the scan codes for most key type operations.
I had forgotten about the ability to remap, but I am not certain if that remaps the scan codes, or just the characters.
Changing the language is not the same as changing the keyboard key representation within the same language.
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Oh for the love of pete and jane! I have been typing this way for well over 25 years and have no need or desire to change the way I do it. I have very few mistakes when I type unless I don't take my ADD meds in the morning.....Bombay Sapphire and Tonic....which allows me to keep up with the 60-70 words a minute way to type.
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The only reason the qwerty layout was developed was to try to prevent mechanical typewriters from jamming up. However, most of us have no desire to learn a new layout...
This is debatable, as by going off your statement it is assumed the first mechanical typewriters had a seperate key or symbol for, ie: the letter "I" and the number "1". The first and original QWERTY typwriter layout was kinda the grandfather to or first-generation on the QWERTY board we all know and use.
My grandmother was born before telephones were in use, she worked a majority of the first half of her working life as a typist and desk clerk from department stores to factories that built refrigertors (and tanks in time of war). When I first introduced her to the digital computer age, AOL, email and all that jazz she actualy had slight learning curve to tackle with becoming familiar and compforitable with the QWERTY keyboard as we know it. Keep in mind this is a woman that made a living behind a typewriter professionaly from the 40s to late 70s and had no problem keeping up with her peers at the same job, and who still has a typewriter on a desk somewhere as it's what she used while managing her own buisness and personal affairs from then on. I'd have to ask her, but back at the time she got her first computer there were maybe a half-dozen new or different keys she was having to adjust to getting used to using. She was compforitable with the num pad though as not much has changed between the num pad on a QWERTY and a calculator. Took her only a month or two though before she was back to typing without looking at her keyboard.
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They aren't marginal gains, first of all.
Lol.
I could see how it could be useful if you had hands like a three toed sloth and had to stick to the middle of the keyboard. Or if you have absolutely zero dexterity in your ring and pinkie fingers. Otherwise yes, negligible gains, if any, and a lot of embarrassment and headache with those silly QWERTY keyboards that are used in 99.999999999% of offices and laptops.
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Lol.
I could see how it could be useful if you had hands like a three toed sloth and had to stick to the middle of the keyboard. Or if you have absolutely zero dexterity in your ring and pinkie fingers. Otherwise yes, negligible gains, if any, and a lot of embarrassment and headache with those silly QWERTY keyboards that are used in 99.999999999% of offices and laptops.
1.) Quit the ad hominem
2.) I can touch type
3.) Why not stick to the middle? It's faster
-Penguin
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3.) Why not stick to the middle? It's faster
-Penguin
I already explained why. Do what you want though kid. :aok
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Claim all the multi-finger magic you want, but your trigger and middle fingers will always be the most dextrous.
-Penguin
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Claim all the multi-finger magic you want, but your trigger and middle fingers will always be the most dextrous.
-Penguin
You can only type as fast as you think. What exactly do you expect to type up where you will just be endlessly typing away at a high rate of speed for a duration of time that will see a measurable amount of improved efficiency? And to that end, will it offset the time it took to learn dvorak and the headache switching between the two? Not to mention offsetting the amount of face palms you caused in this thread. :D
This seriously reminds me of one of Kramar's quirky "ideas" from Seinfeld. :lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQyXeLSL0II
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I work with "hunt and peck" single digit coders at work that can type 100 wpm. Amazing.
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the people i know who use it don't type much faster than some of the people i know who don't. i've messed around trying to learn it...didn't effect my ability to use a normal keyboard, but being forced to use proper finger placements didn't really work for me, its just plain uncomfortable...and honestly i don't know many people who do type "properly"
one of the claimed benefits of dvorak is having the vowels on home row. i naturally have a finger on a e and i, with u and o on either side of the i, underneath my dominant hand. so wheres the benefit?
i figure its about the same as using linux...there is no point for the average user.
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Why don't you buy two of these instead:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pH5IzvsE3U
http://www.frogpad.com/FrogPad/Welcome.html
Then you can double your productivity:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXbl-PxJMmE
:rolleyes:
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My questions-
Who here has heard of Dvorak?
It's on old "keyboard language" that obviously pre-dates the QWERTY system. DVORAK used to be the standard before end of the 19th century but due to the design of the typewriters, the speed of the typist using the DVORAK keyboard system would often jam the mechanical type face arms and obviously it would hurt productivity as the typist was out of action until the keys were unjammed. Some newpaper printer came up with the QWERTY system as a way to improve productivity by forcing the typist to type slower which would then lessen the likelihood of down time.
Obviously, the jamming issue was only a problem with mechanical typewriters and now with computers and such, it's no longer an issue
Who here uses it?
I don't use it, really never did but I did have to learn it when I was a kid taking computer classes in the early '80s. My Apple IIc even had a switch on the keyboard to switch from QWERTY to DVORAK but it was a pain in the bellybutton since the physical layout of the Apple IIc keyboard was QWERTY and unless you knew by memory where the DVORAK keys were layed out, pretty much impossible to use.
What are your opinions on it?
No thoughts really, I really don't find it any more efficient or productive over the existing QWERTY system.
Is it possible to know both layouts for versatility and speed?
You would be better off sticking to one style and instead of mixing them. All you do by doing that is increase the likelihood of making typing errors and ultimately lower your productivity and efficiency.
How do I set it up for Vista?
You'll need a keyboard that is layed out for DVORAK.
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So a paper clip and an attitude isn't going to cut it this time?
-Penguin
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(http://dasmuppets.com/public/dlamb/paperclip.jpg)
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Why don't you buy two of these instead:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pH5IzvsE3U
http://www.frogpad.com/FrogPad/Welcome.html
Then you can double your productivity:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXbl-PxJMmE
:rolleyes:
:uhoh
nooooooooooooooooooo