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General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: soda72 on February 25, 2011, 08:17:14 AM

Title: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: soda72 on February 25, 2011, 08:17:14 AM

Continuation War

(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g185/s0da72/finlandvsrussia2.png)

The Continuation War (jatkosota, fortsättningskriget, 25 June 1941 – 19 September 1944) was the second of two wars fought between Finland and the Soviet Union during World War II.

At the time of the war, the Finnish side used the name to make clear its perceived relationship to the preceding Winter War. The Soviet Union saw the war as a part of its struggle against Germany and its allies, the Eastern Front of World War II or, as it was known in the Soviet Union, the Great Patriotic War. Germany saw its operations in the region as a part of its overall war efforts of World War II. It provided critical material support and military cooperation to Finland. The United Kingdom declared war on Finland on 6 December 1941, followed by its dominions shortly afterwards. The British declaration of war on Finland during the Continuation War is a rare case of democracies declaring war on other democracies, although no hostilities ensued between the two parties. The United States, like many other nations, did not fight or declare war against Finland.

Acts of war between the two countries started on the day on which the German invasion of the Soviet Union was launched, 22 June 1941. Open warfare began with a Soviet air offensive on 25 June 1941. Subsequent Finnish operations undid its post-Winter War cessations on the Karelian Isthmus and Ladoga Karelia and captured East Karelia by September 1941.


======================================== Early war

On 3/28/1942 a flight of six Curtiss Hawk 75A (CU) fighters from LLv.32 led by Lt. P. Nurminen were protecting the conquer parade of Suursaari island on the Gulf of Finland. During the parade another CU flight of six planes led by Lt. J. Arnkill was alarmed to help intercepting three approaching Soviet formations of a total of 29 Polikarpov I-153 and I-16 fighters. Finns attacked Soviet fighters east from Suursaari island after which aerial combat reigned about an hour. During the dogfight 10 I-153s and seven I-16s were shot down without own losses. Soviet planes could not reach the island and parade was not disturbed.

On 4/6/1942 a flight of eight Finnish Brewster B-239 (BW) fighters led by Lt. L. Pekuri which were returning from a reconnaissance mission met a formation of seven Soviet Ilyushin DB-3 and Petlyakov Pe-2 bombers escorted by 18 Hawker Hurricane II and Lavochin LaGG-3 fighters over Tiiksjärvi (East Karelia). During the combat Finns shot down two DBs and 12 Hurricanes without own losses.

======================================== Setup
[feb 25 - Feb 28]
Finland:
Brewster B-239
Hurri I
p-40b (sub for Curtiss Hawk 75A)

Russia:
I-16
Hurri I(sub for hurri IIB)

======================================== Mid war

In the beginning of 1943, No. 24 Sqn was down to 24 operational Brewster fighters. At the same time, a new unit was formed. No. 34 Sqn was formed to incorporate the new Messerschmitt Bf-109 fighters. It also recruited the best pilots from other units, among them many of No. 24 Sqn's best pilots, i.e. Ilmari Juutilainen and Jorma Lukkanen, who had 34 and 14.5 victories respectively. The Soviet Air Force was continuously modernized. The No. 24 Sqn participated among other in the defence of the Gulf of Finland, where they met the aircraft of the Soviet Baltic Fleet, who recently had mounted an offensive. Captain Hans Wind received the Mannerheim Cross on July 31, when he reached 31 victories.

======================================== Setup
[feb 28 - Mar 2] additions
Finland:
109-g2
ju-88

Russia:
p-40E
yak-9T
a-20

======================================== Late war

In early 1944 No. 24 Sqn received the "fighter" prefix to its name and only 17 Brewsters remained operational. The successful aircraft, with a 30:1 victory ratio was replaced with Bf 109s. The unit was fully re-equipped by May 1944 and operated 14 Bf 109Gs when the Soviet Great Offensive started

======================================== Setup
[Mar 2 - Mar 3]additions
Finland:
109-g6

Russia:
p-39Q
la-5FN

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: BnZs on February 25, 2011, 11:17:06 AM

Don't know about the rest of you, but when on the Finn side, *I* will be flying the P-40B or Hurri. Y'all know why, 'nuff said.  :devil As Sir Walter wrote, "fair play and Merry Olde England forever!"  :angel: And my  :salute to all the Russkie boys in their Ishaks.

BTW, this scenario needs the real HurriIIB desperately-a plane I have wished for before and which could easily be added simply by giving the HurrIICs other armament options...in this case for 8 or *12*, that's right, 12 .303s.

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: Reaper90 on February 25, 2011, 01:34:38 PM

w00t! I'ma be on this like a hen on a junebug!  :x

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: USRanger on February 25, 2011, 06:51:45 PM

Great stuff Soda. :aok  This will be a fun one!

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: ImADot on February 25, 2011, 07:11:08 PM

Wait, what??!!?  Hurri-1 on both sides?  :x  :aok   :aok 

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: Chilli on February 25, 2011, 07:47:44 PM

 :aok  Dengit!  This unfair, I thought I was the only Hurri fan.  Deng computer woes  :(  Oh Well, stuck in the Hangar, might as well turn on some music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4oFzg6utTs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4oFzg6utTs)

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: soda72 on February 26, 2011, 04:02:05 PM

AvA Tour 107  Kills by the I-16
Killed Model Type	Killed	Percent
Brewster B-239	53	55.789
Hurricane Mk I	18	18.947
P-40B	24	25.263
	95 Kills

AvA Tour 107  Kills of the I-16
Killed by Model Type	Killed	Percent
Brewster B-239	101	84.167
Hurricane Mk I	10	8.333
P-40B	9	7.500
	120 Kills

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on February 26, 2011, 05:05:04 PM

 Cool set up fun stuff
Thanks :aok

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: soda72 on February 27, 2011, 11:08:54 AM

AvA Tour 107  Kills by the I-16
Killed Model Type	Killed	Percent
Brewster B-239	61	53.509
Hurricane Mk I	25	21.930
P-40B	27	23.684
SdKfz 251	1	0.877
	114 Kills

AvA Tour 107  Kills of the I-16
Killed by Model Type	Killed	Percent
Brewster B-239	122	80.795
Hurricane Mk I	18	11.921
P-40B	9	5.960
SdKfz 251	2	1.325
	151 Kills

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: Cheese on February 27, 2011, 12:09:15 PM

Soda,

I tend to agree with your unspoken point that the Brew pretty much outclasses every other plane in the setup.

I have never flown either the I-16 or the Brewster before Friday.  I flew the I-16 (because it used to be a sweet ride in Fighter Ace), and it seems very squirrelly and sluggish, and prone to tip stalling.

The Brewster however, is an awesome ride.  Very stable, and can practically hang on its prop and turn on a dime w/o any danger of stalling.

This was my finding after flying both for about an hour.   I didn't try the P-40, which might do well at alt against the Brew, but most fights aren't above 2k.

I had some excellent fights in the I-16 (but always lost), and then I switched and had some excellent fights I always won (until I got too deep and got swarmed by Hurri's).

<S>

Cheese

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: Oldman731 on February 27, 2011, 05:35:46 PM

Quote from: Cheese on February 27, 2011, 12:09:15 PM

I tend to agree with your unspoken point that the Brew pretty much outclasses every other plane in the setup

Clearly it does.  Takes about ten minutes in the arena to figure that out.

I view this as an opportunity to get much better in the I-16.

- oldman

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: mbailey on February 27, 2011, 05:44:20 PM

That I-16 is a fun little plane, never flew it before today (that i remember anyway)

Gonna be a fun setup    :aok

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: oboe on February 27, 2011, 08:09:47 PM

What about giving the Russians the P-39D?  Would that even things out more?

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: gyrene81 on February 27, 2011, 08:11:26 PM

Quote from: oboe on February 27, 2011, 08:09:47 PM

What about giving the Russians the P-39D?  Would that even things out more?

no but read the full setup...notice the dates and the changes that occur on those dates...  :aok

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: soda72 on February 28, 2011, 08:24:26 AM

AvA Tour 107  Kills by the I-16
Killed Model Type	Killed	Percent
Brewster B-239	96	53.039
Hurricane Mk I	26	14.365
P-40B	58	32.044
SdKfz 251	1	0.552
	181 Kills

AvA Tour 107  Kills of the I-16
Killed by Model Type	Killed	Percent
Brewster B-239	170	77.982
Hurricane Mk I	18	8.257
P-40B	28	12.844
SdKfz 251	2	0.917
	218 Kills

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: TequilaChaser on February 28, 2011, 08:28:08 AM

soda,
I think this setup of yours seems to be pretty well balanced

it does look like more are flocking to the Brewster because they are drawn to fly what they think is the absolute best performing plane, so this will skew your stats by a small margin......

great setup / balance   :aok


TC

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: soda72 on March 01, 2011, 08:02:49 AM

AvA Tour 107  Kills by the Bf 109G-2
Killed Model Type	Killed	Percent
A-20G	2	5.263
Hurricane Mk I	4	10.526
I-16	7	18.421
P-40E	8	21.053
Yak-9T	17	44.737
	38 Kills

AvA Tour 107  Kills of the Bf 109G-2
Killed by Model Type	Killed	Percent
A-20G	3	9.375
Hurricane Mk I	1	3.125
I-16	16	50.000
P-40E	7	21.875
Yak-9T	5	15.625
	32 Kills

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: Shane on March 01, 2011, 10:40:36 AM

Heh - of the 109g2 activity, I have 14 kills in and 6 deaths (33% and 20% respectively) in for the limited time I played last night (was just too murky the past few days with perma-twilight. I use the gondies.

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: soda72 on March 02, 2011, 06:12:03 PM

AvA Tour 108 Statistics
Plane Name	Kills	Deaths	Kill/Death Ratio
Bf 109G-2	71	25	2.73
Brewster B-239	45	13	3.21
Hurricane Mk I	7	17	0.39
I-16	11	13	0.79
Ju 88	1	4	0.20
P-40E	10	46	0.21
Panzer IV H	1	0	1.00
T-34/76	0	2	0.00
Yak-9T	32	57	0.55
Totals	178	178	0.99

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: Oldman731 on March 02, 2011, 07:03:48 PM

...I...uh...I may have thrown the Hurri I stats off some, in a bad way...

- oldman (and, er some of the others, too)

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: soda72 on March 03, 2011, 08:27:11 AM

AvA Tour 108 Statistics
Plane Name	Kills	Deaths	Kill/Death Ratio
Bf 109G-14	0	1	0.00
Bf 109G-2	91	43	2.07
Brewster B-239	79	37	2.08
Chute	1	0	1.00
Hurricane Mk I	9	27	0.32
I-16	37	29	1.23
Ju 88	1	7	0.12
P-40E	12	53	0.22
Panzer IV H	1	0	1.00
T-34/76	0	2	0.00
Yak-9T	47	79	0.59
Totals	278	278	1.00

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: BnZs on March 03, 2011, 08:42:06 AM

So the Brewster has a better k/d ratio than the 109 G-2, a much higher-performing plane that has been flown by Shane, one of our 'leet sticks alot?

Yeah, THAT'S natural.

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: Shane on March 03, 2011, 02:26:50 PM

Quote from: BnZs on March 03, 2011, 08:42:06 AM

So the Brewster has a better k/d ratio than the 109 G-2, a much higher-performing plane that has been flown by Shane, one of our 'leet sticks alot?

Yeah, THAT'S natural.

I'm doing what I can to bring the Brews k/d stat into line with my reality....  I'm 5 kills of 2 deaths by, in the preceeding stats.  Also doing my part to bring up the G2's K/D as I'm 25 kills, 7 deaths.   :banana:

I maybe one sortie in a brewster last month 3 kills 0 deaths, so my bad for skewing the Brew stats.  :noid

I really feel for the yaks, tho'... I never cared for the T version and my stats reflect that in 5 kills 7 deaths.

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: oboe on March 03, 2011, 08:47:23 PM

Have you flown the Kittyhawk?

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: Shane on March 03, 2011, 10:59:14 PM

not in this matchup at this particular time.  i have in the past.

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: soda72 on March 04, 2011, 07:25:31 AM

AvA Tour 108 Statistics
Plane Name	Kills	Deaths	Kill/Death Ratio
B-17G	1	0	1.00
Bf 109G-14	0	1	0.00
Bf 109G-2	113	66	1.69
Bf 109G-6	14	12	1.08
Brewster B-239	104	51	2.00
Chute	2	0	2.00
Hurricane Mk I	9	27	0.32
I-16	37	29	1.23
Ju 88	2	16	0.12
La-5FN	37	40	0.90
P-40E	29	71	0.40
Panzer IV H	1	0	1.00
T-34/76	0	2	0.00
Yak-9T	50	84	0.59
Totals	399	399	1.00

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: NormH3 on March 04, 2011, 10:13:13 AM

how about that. A 1 to 1 ratio. Verly interlesting.

(http://pdxretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/arte-as-german_thumb.jpg)

Title: Re: Feb 25 Setup: The "Continuation War"
Post by: Wmaker on March 12, 2011, 07:16:43 AM

Quote from: BnZs on March 03, 2011, 08:42:06 AM

Yeah, THAT'S natural.

Natural considering the real war that was fought 65 odd years ago? Well, yes and no.

Natural when talking about online combat flightsim in 2011. Sure, why not.