Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oakranger on February 27, 2011, 07:50:14 PM
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Ok, i need your help. My dad and brother are arguing with me on what U.S. fighter defeated the japs. They both said the P-51. I disagree to a certain extent and said the F4U did. What is the answer. (ack-ack and/or krusty will be by to answer this)
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Id have to say that in the air during the early war it was the F4F, latewar was definately the F4U. but...over in europe it was definately the P-51 or the P-47.
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I believe the Pony was much less involved than in Germany. I'd say the F4Us or P38s.
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seriously? neither defeated the japs...remember de nook :old:
the pony contributed more to the long range bombing effort where the f4u contributed more to the land grabbing effort...
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I say Dauntless,saved us at Midway and Guadalcanal
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I seem to remember seeing that the F6F had the best service record in the pacific, but I could be wrong.
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The F6F accounted for 75% of all aerial victories recorded by the U.S. Navy in the Pacific
of course this ignores the fact that the two of the highest scoring aces in the pacific flew the p-38...
:)
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F6F had more of an impact than the Corsair IMO. The 38 did more as well as far as I'm concerned, as one of them shot down the plane which carried their best tactician. But the 38 was just like the Hellcat: "Jack-of-all-trades and the master of none."
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of course this ignores the fact that the two of the highest scoring aces in the pacific flew the p-38...:)
No it doesn't.
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In my humble opinion, the F6F had the largest impact.
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That's really hard to have a correct answer, since every fighter played its part to defeat Japan. :headscratch:
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HELLCAT da :bolt:
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.
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P-36
:noid
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your dad and brother? make peace. winning the talk ain't worth it.
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I believe the Pony was much less involved than in Germany. I'd say the F4Us or P38s.
really?
the p-51s were hugely involved over germany, almost entirely in the escorting scene. without them escorting the "big friends" there wouldnt really have BEEN a strategicc bombing campaign after 1943-ish. the P-51s were used very little over the Pacific, especially in the late war, as the Japanese were losing planes (and pilots) all over the place, so eventually, the B-29s didnt need a real escort.
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the BREW is what defeated the japs :bhead
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the BREW is what defeated the japs :bhead
yeah OK... :rofl
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What defeated the japs in general was democracy :lol
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Here's an answer: Link>> (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Jap)
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The only thing that defeated the Japanese was American industry, which had a huge boost from the civilians and military men with a singular mindset to win.
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Here's an answer: Link>> (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Jap)
:lol
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As for which fighter, the F6F is the best answer. Highest kill ratio of any aircraft in WW2 at 19:1. Also produced more ace pilots than any U.S. fighter with 306, more than 40 became aces in one mission.
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As for which fighter, the F6F is the best answer. Highest kill ratio of any aircraft in WW2 at 19:1. Also produced more ace pilots than any U.S. fighter with 306, more than 40 became aces in one mission.
For the US it had the Highest K/D. The Finns, will eventually chime in with the B-239 for "Overall".
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I'm pretty sure he meant Japanese, not Jewish American Princess.
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For fighters the winner is the F6F as it was in theater the longest on CV's. Follow that with the F4U. On the Army side it was the P38. Later in the war the 51 was an escort for the real ones that damaged the homeland, the B29.
The killers of the Japanese navy were the SBD dauntless, SB2C's. Once the carrier advantage was ended the subs and some surface action took more tonnage. Additional tonnage was taken out by Army bombers.
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The correct answer is:
The Manhattan Project
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The correct answer is:
The Manhattan Project
The question was for which U.S. Fighter. And the Manhattan Project did nothing with fighters or Japan. The Manhattan Project was put in place to develop the first atomic bomb.
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The only thing that defeated the Japanese was American industry, which had a huge boost from the civilians and military men with a singular mindset to win.
Ding ding we have a winner.
In fact Yamamoto warned that attacking the U.S. would only awaken a sleeping giant.
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F6F had more of an impact than the Corsair IMO. The 38 did more as well as far as I'm concerned, as one of them shot down the plane which carried their best tactician. But the 38 was just like the Hellcat: "Jack-of-all-trades and the master of none."
Don't forget the marines used f4u long before the hellcat came around. Pappy and his boys owned in Russell Islands-New Georgia and Bougainville-New Britain-New Ireland areas. The famous VMF-214 "black sheep".
I would argue that in Europe, no "plane" broke the Germans back... rather, the shier might and enormous numerical superiority of the Russians with the industrial support of the US broke the Germans back. The US's involvement was important but in no way was it at the same scale as the Russians. By the time the US air war over Germany was in force (~1943), the Germans already were in retreat on the Eastern front. Remember battle of Stalingrad was over and lost by Feb '43.
The losses the Russians took to push them back were staggering....
10,651,000 Russians lost
407,000 US lost
(thats not counting civilians).
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really?
the p-51s were hugely involved over germany, almost entirely in the escorting scene. without them escorting the "big friends" there wouldnt really have BEEN a strategicc bombing campaign after 1943-ish. the P-51s were used very little over the Pacific, especially in the late war, as the Japanese were losing planes (and pilots) all over the place, so eventually, the B-29s didnt need a real escort.
That's what he said...read it again.
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Delirium answered the question as far as the topic title is concerned with..... The American industry and civilians both Men and women along with children all volunteering for the war effort, gathering aluminum, copper, metal, scrape etc..... to produce the Us Military build up.....
the Fighter part of the op's post, the answer is the F6f
and seriously...... try and drop the slang term and use "Japanese" instead....... we have a good many Japanese AH members who play along with us in this game
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Some might argue that it was the blood, sweat and tears of the USMC that ultimately defeated Japan. I might even agree with that :salute
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hands down it was the F6F that won the air war for us in the Pacific.
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From an obviously unbiased source.
"In my opinion, the P-38 Lightning did more to win the air war in the South Pacific than any other airplane, including what the Navy had."
-Norb Ruff, P-38 Pilot, 80th FS
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Ladies, ladies, ladies....just ask what AC fighter, nothing eals. Thanks for the answer. :salute
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the fact the navy and the army couldnt agree on anything
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Probably best to look at the fighters that held the line until US production could get rolling and new birds appeared.
P40, F4F
Those two and the pilots who flew them really had to take on the most experienced Japanese pilots and in the end decimated the Japanese pilot ranks by the end of the Canal fight. And if you were going to pick from the two, you'd have to go with the F4F since I think it's fair to say the Japanese Navy pilots in their Zeros were the 'elite' at the start of the war.
The others may have had higher kill rates, but they were also doing it against a Japanese pilot corps that never caught up in training and quality after 1942. It's kind of like those who claim the 51D won the airwar in the ETO. Tell that to the guys who fought the war in other birds prior to D-Day when the fight for air supremacy was won and the veteran German pilots had been killed or knocked out of the fight for the most part.
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I thought it was the Higgins Boat, but I guess the various Marines & US Navy a/c did the aviation bit
Tronsky
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If you are restricting the argument to which plane had the most contribution to winning the air war against Japan then is it the F6F Hellcat, no question.
It accounted for such a huge fraction of the total kills and its appearance is the point in which the paradigm shifted - the F4F held the line admirably and had victories, but the opinion was that these were achieved in-spit of the F4F not due to it. The appearance of the F6F gave a significant amount of confidence in the ability to win large air engagements and allowed a more daring carrier operations.
The F4U was a big hype that made very little difference. It started development was in service before the F6F, yet had almost zero impact on war progression, regardless of how many planes one squadron shot down - no carrier operations means it does not operate where it is really needed. Small production numbers means not enough impact.
P51s, P47s and P38 and even P-40 all had an important contribution, but being land based (like the F4U...) they were operating in the wrong (Ok lets say less than optimal) places. The Pacific campaign was all about naval war and the naval war was oddly fought in the air. You needed carrier planes for that.
The F6F is an excellent example of "less is more": development started long after the F4U and instead of trying to make the best possible fighter, Grumman made the most sensible fighter. The design was not revolutionary (most unique feature was the way the wings were folded) and stat for stat it is inferior to the F4U, but actually showing up to the fight is more important than hyping about a few mph and deg/sec roll rate. This was achieved by making a more reliable, easy to operate, easy to manufacture (breaking setting world production records) and to top it all, even cheaper fighter than the F4U. By the time Vought had finished tweaking their spoiled over-hyped child and produced enough to equip a couple of squadrons, the navy was already full of F6Fs actually wining the war. The F4U was the better plane, but the F6F was by far the more important plane.
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Ok, i need your help. My dad and brother are arguing with me on what U.S. fighter defeated the japs. They both said the P-51. I disagree to a certain extent and said the F4U did. What is the answer. (ack-ack and/or krusty will be by to answer this)
The P-51 didn't see wide spread use in the PTO as it did in the ETO and wasn't that major of a player. As for the plane that broke the back of the Japanese, it's really not that easy of a question to answer as it's a very subjective question that will never have one answer.
In my opinion it was planes like the P-39, P-40, P-38 and Wildcat that first held the line and then started the attrition that would by 1943 make the IJAF and IJNAF a spent and broken force.
ack-ack
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If you are restricting the argument to which plane had the most contribution to winning the air war against Japan then is it the F6F Hellcat, no question.
It accounted for such a huge fraction of the total kills and its appearance is the point in which the paradigm shifted - the F4F held the line admirably and had victories, but the opinion was that these were achieved in-spit of the F4F not due to it. The appearance of the F6F gave a significant amount of confidence in the ability to win large air engagements and allowed a more daring carrier operations.
The F4U was a big hype that made very little difference. It started development was in service before the F6F, yet had almost zero impact on war progression, regardless of how many planes one squadron shot down - no carrier operations means it does not operate where it is really needed. Small production numbers means not enough impact.
P51s, P47s and P38 and even P-40 all had an important contribution, but being land based (like the F4U...) they were operating in the wrong (Ok lets say less than optimal) places. The Pacific campaign was all about naval war and the naval war was oddly fought in the air. You needed carrier planes for that.
The F6F is an excellent example of "less is more": development started long after the F4U and instead of trying to make the best possible fighter, Grumman made the most sensible fighter. The design was not revolutionary (most unique feature was the way the wings were folded) and stat for stat it is inferior to the F4U, but actually showing up to the fight is more important than hyping about a few mph and deg/sec roll rate. This was achieved by making a more reliable, easy to operate, easy to manufacture (breaking setting world production records) and to top it all, even cheaper fighter than the F4U. By the time Vought had finished tweaking their spoiled over-hyped child and produced enough to equip a couple of squadrons, the navy was already full of F6Fs actually wining the war. The F4U was the better plane, but the F6F was by far the more important plane.
:aok :aok :aok
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really?
the p-51s were hugely involved over germany, almost entirely in the escorting scene. without them escorting the "big friends" there wouldnt really have BEEN a strategicc bombing campaign after 1943-ish. the P-51s were used very little over the Pacific, especially in the late war, as the Japanese were losing planes (and pilots) all over the place, so eventually, the B-29s didnt need a real escort.
Please re read my post. THAN IN GERMANY.
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F6f would get my vote as well.
I seem to remember seeing that the F6F had the best service record in the pacific, but I could be wrong.
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like Del said, industrial capacity beat the Japanese.
btw if we're not allowed to abbreviate Japanese, then I'm going to have to insist that the term Brit be banned too.
henceforward please refer to us as Citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ...
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M-18 ?? :P
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I give it to the PBY-5A piloted by LT Howard P. Ady, Jr., flying with VP-23, better known as "Strawberry 5" and the battle of Midway.
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The Japanese beat themselves by;
A)Underestimating the United States free will and tenacity.
B)Underestimated our resources to ramp up and conduct war.
C)Failed to sink the carriers at PH.
D)Over extended their supply line by expanding their territory too far.
Had they sunk the carriers at PH(C) , and not over extended themselves(D), the inevitable defeat might have taken just a few months longer.
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In an aircraft only standpoint the F6F was king in the kill stat category. However, in terms of holding the line and fighting with their back to the wall the P-40, F4F, P-38, and P-39 slowed the Japanese tidal wave moving across the Pacific.
In a more laid back outlook consider the war in the Pacific like a dodgeball tourney. Japan beat the Chinese in round 1. They beat the motley squad of the Phillipines, Okinawa, Guam, and New Guinea in round 2. They were on top of the Soviets at the intermission and looking ahead to facing the Australians in round 4. While on the way back to the arena Team Captain Tojo looks to the side of the walkway and smiles. He pokes Co-captain Yamamoto and says "Do you think I can hit that hornet nest in that tree with one shot?" Yamamoto replies "Why would you even want to hit a hornet nest?" The rest is history. :neener:
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F6F had the bulk of the kills...............
38s got Yamamoto. :D
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They were on top of the Soviets at the intermission and looking ahead to facing the Australians in round 4.
uh actually, they threw in the towel against the soviets...well documented...just sayin.
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The others may have had higher kill rates, but they were also doing it against a Japanese pilot corps that never caught up in training and quality after 1942. It's kind of like those who claim the 51D won the airwar in the ETO. Tell that to the guys who fought the war in other birds prior to D-Day when the fight for air supremacy was won and the veteran German pilots had been killed or knocked out of the fight for the most part.
Could not agree more. :salute
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duhh the USSR defeated japan in 1945
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I would say no fighter played a major role in the defeat of Japan.
Ground based aircraft like the P-38 and P51 & P47s did their share and the carrier borne fighters did theirs.
The one plane that hurt Japan the most was the Dauntless Dive Bomber.
It sank most of Japan's carrier fleet and in almost all cases going at it alone without fighter escort. It sunk the biggest warships Japan had. Without the destruction of the carrier forces the US had little hope in the early and mid years of the war.
Dauntless hit ground targets in preparation of and in support of marine landings... it destroyed enemy supply ships and performed scouting and recon duties.
The fighter planes of the army and navy did their job against the IJN fighters and bombers... but once you think about it, once Japan lost its carriers it lost the war.
But if you want to know which FIGHTER hurt Japan the most... hmmm I'd think the F4F.
You have to think about not total kills but WHO they killed. The F6F is like the P51 in Europe..by the time it got in the fight the enemy was already heavily bled out and these new planes ended up fighting a mostly green enemy air force.
The F4F took on the most veteran IJN pilots without numerical or airframe superiority and held the line..and bled the majority of IJN's experienced pilots. When the F4U and F6F came in they completed the job via superior planes in superior numbers.
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They're appetite was bigger than their stomach!
The Japanese were doomed from the outset of war. They didn't have a hope in hell of eating the buffet they had ordered! They should have been content with their gains in china and waited years before trying to belly up to the adult buffet :aok
JUGgler
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yes but if the japanese would not have gone to war with the US the US might not have jumed in on germany, and if that wouldnt have happend, half to world would be speaking Russian at the moment, not that its a bad thing ;)
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As to me you can find a very good answer reading this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Benedict
In particular:
The Chrysanthemum and the Sword.
:salute
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Going to take an other guess and say that the war was won by the guys that fought it and not the machines.
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Going to take an other guess and say that the war was won by the guys that fought it and not the machines.
maybe they were machines.... maybe they were cylons? :noid :noid
(http://liberalvaluesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/battlestar-galactica-battlestar-galactica-two-cylons.jpg)
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Probably best to look at the fighters that held the line until US production could get rolling and new birds appeared.
P40, F4F
Those two and the pilots who flew them really had to take on the most experienced Japanese pilots and in the end decimated the Japanese pilot ranks by the end of the Canal fight. And if you were going to pick from the two, you'd have to go with the F4F since I think it's fair to say the Japanese Navy pilots in their Zeros were the 'elite' at the start of the war.
The others may have had higher kill rates, but they were also doing it against a Japanese pilot corps that never caught up in training and quality after 1942. It's kind of like those who claim the 51D won the airwar in the ETO. Tell that to the guys who fought the war in other birds prior to D-Day when the fight for air supremacy was won and the veteran German pilots had been killed or knocked out of the fight for the most part.
+1
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They're appetite was bigger than their stomach!
The Japanese were doomed from the outset of war. They didn't have a hope in hell of eating the buffet they had ordered! They should have been content with their gains in china and waited years before trying to belly up to the adult buffet :aok
JUGgler
By that logic,
GODZILLA was a post war manifestation of Japan's Pre war and early war desires expressed in a lizard that gets himself in too deep and subsequently has his bellybutton kicked.
But seriously, F4F and FM2 did the hard part.
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Aircraft was a piece of the puzzle, but not the whole enchilada.
What defeated the Japanese was technology.
Allies had standard semi-automatic rifles, the Japanese were still using the bolt action (and antiquated) Arisaka.
Allies had more and better machine guns.
Allies had flame-throwers.
Allies had more and better designed hand grenades.
Allies had proximity fuses in their AAA on board ships.
Allies had already pretty much broken the Japanese radio code.
Allies had reliable sources of raw materials and the technology to get them to manufacturers.
There's a lot more but the Japanese literaly thought that they could wage a war in the 1940's with 1920's and 1930's technology. The DID work some technology into their newer planes and ships but it was too little too late. They also ran out of experienced pilots by early 1944, some say even earlier.
It's hard to win any conflict in a great tank ---against an enemy that can easily fire on the fly as well as ID you with night vision if you have neither.
The sheer doggedness, loyalty, and tenacity of the Japanese soldier is what made up for many shortcomings in technology, but could never make up for the lack of technology versus the B-29 and an atomic bomb.
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uh actually, they threw in the towel against the soviets...well documented...just sayin.
duhh the USSR defeated japan in 1945
Only on this forum can I have the joy of seeing a tongue-in-cheek movie reference turned history lesson be pulled apart and critiqued. And for the record the hornet's nest was Pearl Harbor/USA. So they had yet to throw in the towel against the Soviets and it wasn't 1945 yet...just sayin :noid
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I want my hook back when you are done with it... just sayin :noid
:D
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F6F had the bulk of the kills...............
38s got Yamamoto. :D
Beat ya to it. :devil
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Ok, i need your help. My dad and brother are arguing with me on what U.S. fighter defeated the japs. They both said the P-51. I disagree to a certain extent and said the F4U did. What is the answer. (ack-ack and/or krusty will be by to answer this)
They would both be wrong, it was the B29 and specifically the Atom Bomb....... :t
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They would both be wrong, it was the B29 and specifically the Atom Bomb....... :t
The atom bomb only hastened the ending of the war with Japan. The war was actually won for all practical purposes with the capture of Okinawa, The real turning point in the Pacific was the Japanese defeat at Midway. (who was it that said Strawberry 5?)
Japan has no real natural resources, and once it had lost control of it's supply lines it was pretty much done.
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The Japanese were beaten long before the A-bombs were dropped. They just gave Hirohito an excuse to throw
in the towel. Sorry Sik, you posted as I did :D
It's not so much that the Russians beat the Japanese as kicked them when they were down.
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The Japanese were beaten long before the A-bombs were dropped. They just gave Hirohito an excuse to throw
in the towel. Sorry Sik, you posted as I did :D
It's not so much that the Russians beat the Japanese as kicked them when they were down.
Yes, in fact the Soviets didn't declare war on Japan until near the end of the war, and through most of the war seemed as if they didn't want to anger the Japanese.
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Marines.
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if you were to believe my great Uncles stories he defeated the Japs single handedly on the Kokoda track.
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if you were to believe my great Uncles stories he defeated the Japs single handedly on the Kokoda track.
Considering the brawl the Aussies won on that trail, I'd be hard pressed not to believe him.
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They would both be wrong, it was the B29 and specifically the Atom Bomb....... :t
I would say that the B29 and the lower level fire bombing did more damage then then nooks...
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Which plane? F6F, hands down.
Which main reason:
1 The japanese failed to knock down the pacific fleet
2 That allowed the US to wage war while building up an arsenal that Japan could never compete with.
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Marines.
My Asss Rides In Navy Equipment
and incidently they did not win the Pacific war. I believe this did.
(http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv121/HappySingleMan/M1-Garand.jpg)
The Marine is only useful with his rifle. and an M1 with a full clip of 30.6 will put a stop to a Japanese soldier's antics.
"The finest battlefield implement ever devised" - George Patton
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Yes, in fact the Soviets didn't declare war on Japan until near the end of the war, and through most of the war seemed as if they didn't want to anger the Japanese.
we didnt care about the japanese, we had bigger stuff on our plate then that, and we had been fighting them for years before the GPW, we didnt renew our non agression pact with them because the US asked us for help in china
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The Japanese decided to tackle the USA INSTEAD of the USSR, which was probably a big mistake. After all, the Russians learned of this through the spy Sorge, and that saved Moscow in 1941, - the fine eastern troops under Zhukov could rush westwards from their guard, resting sure that the Japs would not just walk in.
It was never in the interest of the USSR to have two fronts.
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we didnt care about the japanese
The Treaty or Portsmouth 30 years earlier factually states otherwise. We wouldn't want to forget the "Purge" either.
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My Asss Rides In Navy Equipment
and incidently they did not win the Pacific war. I believe this did.
(http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv121/HappySingleMan/M1-Garand.jpg)
The Marine is only useful with his rifle. and an M1 with a full clip of 30.6 will put a stop to a Japanese soldier's antics.
"The finest battlefield implement ever devised" - George Patton
Think this might have a claim that is stronger :D
(http://www.45thdivision.org/Pictures/General_Knowlege/combatload/FlamethrowerC.jpg)
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Marine armament within a platoon would be:
M1
Carbine
BAR
Tompson
Flame-thrower(s)
Grenades
Colt 45's
Explosives
A medic and a radio operator or two.
All on board one LVT....or Higgins boat. BTW, Japanese snipers would focus on the medics and the BAR guys.
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Marines.
Yep
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'Unfortunately' WWII saw a winner only: The War itself.
:salute
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'Unfortunately' WWII saw a winner only: The War itself.
I don't think the Jewish population of Europe or the Chinese citizens (particularly in Nanking) would feel the same way.
I feel you are very wrong on that issue.
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(http://military.discovery.com/technology/vehicles/submarines/images/03_gato-625x450.jpg)
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(http://www.ww2pacific.com/gif/i400c.jpg)
:noid
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Think this might have a claim that is stronger :D
(http://www.45thdivision.org/Pictures/General_Knowlege/combatload/FlamethrowerC.jpg)
I met a Marine that had the unfortunate duty to BBQ a lot of Koreans in the Korean War. He is so traumatized of what he did that anything that is Asia (food, people, movies, book ect.) and breaks down or goes a little crazy.
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(http://www.ww2pacific.com/gif/i400c.jpg)
:noid
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/USS_Kidd_DD-661_dropping_depth_charge_NAN9-58.jpg)
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Iron,fire, and hatred.
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with the increasing number of Japanese players in this game and supporting it financially, especially in the off hours arena, I find the title of this thread offensive.
Please refrain from using it, use JP or bother to take the 2 seconds to type the whole word.
I appreciate it was in common use during the war but it is 2011.
Thanks
:salute
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I appreciate it was in common use during the war but it is 2011.
:aok :aok What Bruv said....
or in other terms...
1941 called, it wants its backwards racist slang terms back, twit!
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Spielberg and Christan Bale say this won it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02BBtN-P0lc
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Spielberg and Christan Bale say this won it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02BBtN-P0lc
What is wrong about the skin on the P-51?
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read "Zero" written in 1955 by Masatake Okumiya (avaitor) and Jiro Horikoshi (Chief design engineer of the Zero). Paperback copies still available online.
Fascinating read from the Japanese perspective AFTER the war. Highly recommended.
Interesting footnote: The two atomic bombs accounted for 3% of the bombardment destruction against Japans cities during the entire second world war.
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not just the PAC, CBI.
My vote goes to the P40.
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As has been pointed out, no specific aircraft or other weapon system can take credit for the defeat of the Japanese. If you want to talk specifically about the air war, the Japanese were primarily defeated, in my opinion, by a number of interrelated factors and decisions that can be loosely grouped into four main catagories: equipment, doctrine, training, and logistics.
Equipment: Put simply, the Japanese build the very best combat aircraft in the world...for the previous war. The sacrificing of firepower, horsepower, and durability in exchange for maneuverability and range resulted in combat aircraft that were quickly rendered obsolete and ineffective against an enemy that refused to fight the kind of fight the Japanese had prepared for. They were also, technologically, at the cutting edge of their industrial capability. As a result, they were unable to keep up (quantitatively) with the rapid advances in aviation and ordinance design. Sure, they could design and build prototypes of combat aircraft that were, on paper at least, on par with American designs; however, the did not have an industrial base of trained workers or readily available raw materials to produce them in quantity.
Doctrine: Tactically, the Japanese airmen in the beginning were superbly trained in ACM. They did not, however, spend any real time on wingman tactics. Once they lost the numerical advantage they initially held in the air when the war started, such lone-wolf tactics became ineffective and darn near suicidal. They were also not particularly adept at supporting bombers, or in close air support roles.
Training: While the aircrews the Japanese began the war with were incredibly skilled, their training methods and capabilities where not up to the task of rapidly replacing -- let alone expanding --their cadre. They did not appreciate or plan for either rapid and massive losses, or for the duration of sustained combat operations. Add to this the fact that they did not routinely rotate veteran combat pilots back home to pass on the hard-won lessons they'd learned, and poor or inconsistent methods to introduce newbies to combat with an eye to getting them through their first 10 or so missions.
Logistics: Volumes have been written about this issue, as it relates to the Japanese' fortunes (or lack of fortunes) in World War II. Needless to say, the Japanese did not have the resources to sustain combat across such a vast operational area. Even early in the war, a lack of skilled maintenance crews, spares, ammo and fuel constrained the Japanese considerably, even in the best of time. As they struggled to field more advance types of aircraft, this only got worse.
For what it's worth, the P-40 will always be the aircraft that symbolizes the Pacific war to me. Like the Wildcat, it was inferior in many ways to the Japanese aircraft they went up against early in the war. Both bore the brunt and held the line against the Japanese, through skill and valor, until their newer counterparts were available to take up the batton.
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Interesting footnote: The two atomic bombs accounted for 3% of the bombardment destruction against Japans cities during the entire second world war.
Yes and the Japanese didn't surrender for almost a week after Nagasaki was bombed. So to say that the atomic bomb was instrumental in the defeat of Japan is a gross over simplification. What the atomic bomb did do was show the Japanese military leaders that the continuation of the war would only result in the complete destruction of Japan. Even then, there were those that refused to except defeat, and were more than willing to continue until Hirohito himself announced Japans capitulation.
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Yes and the Japanese didn't surrender for almost a week after Nagasaki was bombed. So to say that the atomic bomb was instrumental in the defeat of Japan is a gross over simplification. What the atomic bomb did do was show the Japanese military leaders that the continuation of the war would only result in the complete destruction of Japan. Even then, there were those that refused to except defeat, and were more than willing to continue until Hirohito himself announced Japans capitulation.
This may be true but when the Japanese saw the F7F with it's 4x50 cals and 4x20mm they just said "we give"..... :devil
:salute
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Everyone knows the n00k was dropped from a B-38!!
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Ok, i need your help. My dad and brother are arguing with me on what U.S. fighter defeated the japs. They both said the P-51. I disagree to a certain extent and said the F4U did. What is the answer. (ack-ack and/or krusty will be by to answer this)
They all did
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After whatching Battle 360, I would say the USS Enterprise won the war in the Pacific.
According to the first episode of Battle 360 the Enterprise was do in port on the morning of Dec. 7, 1941. It was held back by a tropical storm. Probably similar to the one the Japanese refer to as the Kamikaze aka. the "divine wind."
The Japanese word Kamikaze is usually translated as "divine wind" (kami is the word for "god", "spirit", or "divinity", and kaze for "wind"). The word kamikaze originated as the name of major typhoons in 1274 and 1281, which dispersed Mongolian invasion fleets.
The only problem for Japan was the "divine wind" seemed to be on the US's side during WWII.
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Sorry but your all wrong. It was the liberty ship effort the C47 and the Jeep.
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Sorry but your all wrong. It was the liberty ship effort the C47 and the Jeep.
Well, both Gen Eisenhower in Europe and Gen Kenny in the South Pacific noted that the C47 was probably the single most impacting weapons system deployed in their respective theaters of operations. I think the duce-and-a-half was more important than the willy jeep (the Russians certainly felt that way). There's no denying that the Liberty ship (brainchild of the founder of Kaiser Steel Co.) was crucial to success, as well. At peak production, they were cranking out a Liberty ship in 30 days; they were literaly building them faster than the enemy could sink them.
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i believe these 3 aircraft won the war.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/p40kill.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/MissConnieCopyright.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/1-a-1280.jpg)
sure, they didnt last the entire time of the war. but at the very begining they were able to stand against an air force twice there power and against planes that could outmanuever them in allmost every catagory.
they were able to hold the IAF back long enough for the U.S to design new fighters. and thats what makes me believe they are what won the war.
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I would say no fighter played a major role in the defeat of Japan.
Ground based aircraft like the P-38 and P51 & P47s did their share and the carrier borne fighters did theirs.
The one plane that hurt Japan the most was the Dauntless Dive Bomber.
It sank most of Japan's carrier fleet and in almost all cases going at it alone without fighter escort. It sunk the biggest warships Japan had. Without the destruction of the carrier forces the US had little hope in the early and mid years of the war.
Dauntless hit ground targets in preparation of and in support of marine landings... it destroyed enemy supply ships and performed scouting and recon duties.
The fighter planes of the army and navy did their job against the IJN fighters and bombers... but once you think about it, once Japan lost its carriers it lost the war.
But if you want to know which FIGHTER hurt Japan the most... hmmm I'd think the F4F.
You have to think about not total kills but WHO they killed. The F6F is like the P51 in Europe..by the time it got in the fight the enemy was already heavily bled out and these new planes ended up fighting a mostly green enemy air force.
The F4F took on the most veteran IJN pilots without numerical or airframe superiority and held the line..and bled the majority of IJN's experienced pilots. When the F4U and F6F came in they completed the job via superior planes in superior numbers.
finally someone isn't just thinking about kills,Dauntless destroyed a lot of shipping
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finally someone isn't just thinking about kills,Dauntless destroyed a lot of shipping
Shipping sunk raised national morale slightly if at all even though it had a huge play on how the war panned out. A hero pilot at a parade who displaying his medal for getting some kills would raise morale vastly more despite doing little but taking out a few planes and pilots. Yes taking out the shipping was important, of course, that is obvious when the stats are studied. But just as obvious is the fact that when it became history we remembered the fighter ace far more than the dive bomber crew.That's just how we do things as humans :)
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We all know Ben Affleck, beat the japanese. He was even was needed by the Brits to fend off sie Germans, jeesh people.
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh138/Outdoorswoman08/Summer%2006/PICT5422.jpg)