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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: PFactorDave on February 27, 2011, 10:07:58 PM

Title: Learning the 109K4
Post by: PFactorDave on February 27, 2011, 10:07:58 PM
So I've decided to give the 109K4 a go.  I have avoided it in the past, mostly because I've never liked trying to lob those taters.  Anyway, I upped a K4 for a series of sorties Saturday and had some luck with it (and the taters), so I was hoping to get some pointers from some of you K4 jocks.

Couple of questions though.

I'm away from my Aces High computer at the moment, but I was wondering if all of those Agent360 films still exist and if they are playable with the current film viewer?

Does anyone know what the K4's corner speed is?

Beyond that, I'm interested in any tips you may have to offer.

 :salute
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: AAJagerX on February 28, 2011, 12:09:30 AM
I've got em downloaded.  If ya want, I can email em to ya.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Muzzy on February 28, 2011, 12:49:43 AM
Here's what I've learned:

1. Best thing to learn taters is simply practice...offline shooting drones, in the TA with the lead computing sight on, and in the Dueling Arena for furballing.

2. Pick a convergence you like and stick with it.

3. Keep tracers on so you can track the loft of your shells and adjust fire.

4. Get good at throttle control so you can manage your speed, and remember to hit that K key if you lock up in the middle of a dive.

5. Good acceleration and deceleration means you can set up overshoots.  Use whatever works: flat scissors, break turns, rolling, climbing...chop throttle, hit flaps and watch them go by, then raise flaps, WEP up and go after them. Check Agent's films to see how it's done.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,261486.0.html

6. Deflection shooting is a matter of practice and timing.

7. Don't let your limited amount of ammo keep you from taking the shot.  Just remember to fire for only a second at a time.

8. For bomber hunting: get your speed up (preferably by diving) zoom in close and aim for the wing root, then get out as fast as you can and set up again.  Don't linger on their six if you can help it.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Debrody on February 28, 2011, 01:31:26 AM
Dave, ask Bunnies, good k-4 stick, great teacher.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: BillyD on February 28, 2011, 01:14:38 PM
          I'd be willing to help you out as well dave. I was flying under FATCHICK but now I'm under locutu5. Hit me up. Sunsfan is a great K4 teacher as well if you can catch him......

Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: HighGTrn on February 28, 2011, 01:24:39 PM
I took up the K4 several times a couple of weeks ago. I really liked it. Love pulling the torque initiated roll at the top and watching the bad guy shoot right by. Interesting thing though... Seems my taters just didn't do what I expected. I had to hit the guy a couple of time before something fell off. Don't get me wrong, the effect was definitely there but it was far from being a one hit shot (at least for me).

Also, it seems like most of the shots I had were close range snap shots rather than getting saddled up.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: JUGgler on February 28, 2011, 01:57:13 PM
The K4 is a  M O N S T E R  !  There are too many excellent K4 drivers to count. The very "upper edge" of K4 ability are folks such as Grizz, Boa, krup, sunsfan, Agent360, etc. There are many more 2nd tier drivers who are excellent indeed but I would say lose to the "upper edge" drivers regularly!

Any of these folks would DA you and give you pointers!



JUGgler
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: PFactorDave on February 28, 2011, 03:25:36 PM
Appreciate the input guys.  Spent a little time with Krupnski today (many thanks to him).  Would love to get into the DA or TA with anybody who is willing.

 :salute
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Ardy123 on February 28, 2011, 06:16:34 PM
Appreciate the input guys.  Spent a little time with Krupnski today (many thanks to him).  Would love to get into the DA or TA with anybody who is willing.

 :salute

If you would like, I could show you some stuff to get you started on your journey of discovery.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: PFactorDave on February 28, 2011, 06:20:27 PM
If you would like, I could show you some stuff to get you started on your journey of discovery.


Thanks Ardy, I'll watch for you in game.  Same name in game right?
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Ardy123 on February 28, 2011, 06:36:01 PM
Thanks Ardy, I'll watch for you in game.  Same name in game right?
no look at my footer/signature... my in game name is bunnies
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: SIK1 on February 28, 2011, 06:58:28 PM
If you would like, I could show you some stuff to get you started on your journey of discovery.


Oh me too please. I am starting to understand the deadly beauty of the K-4.
I've been flying all the 109's lately, and recently got into the tater with my squads (1/JG27) use of the G-14 in BoG last frame. The one thing I have noticed about hitting with it is to get so close you think you're going to collide, wait a second, then pull the trigger. I have to get close to hit with it. Last frame I chickened out and went with the 20mm package and was a little sorry I did. Since then I've been practicing exclusively with the tater, and will next frame, and all future frames use nothing else. G-14 frame 4, K-4 in frame 5, and 6.

Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Debrody on February 28, 2011, 06:58:55 PM
GL Dave    :salute
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: PFactorDave on February 28, 2011, 07:42:26 PM
no look at my footer/signature... my in game name is bunnies

Roger that!
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: PFactorDave on February 28, 2011, 08:42:04 PM
I'm interested to hear where everyone likes to put the gun convergence.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: ACE on February 28, 2011, 10:16:31 PM
I do 225   :salute
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Muzzy on February 28, 2011, 10:34:32 PM
Best bet is to set it where you find yourself taking most of your shots and learn how to compensate. I have mine set at 300 since I usually fire when the icon reads 200+ or less.  I've also nailed targets at 400 on that convergence with a bit of effort, although I don't recommend it.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Ardy123 on February 28, 2011, 10:36:13 PM
250... but I three things..

1) I don't take shots unless I'm around 100 or closer
2) I use the cockpit bars sometimes as a tool to aim deflection shots
3) I have bad aim, so you might make shots from further out.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Rhah on February 28, 2011, 10:39:38 PM
I'm not one of the great K4 fliers, but I've flown it for quite some time. Snapshots are always great ways to get kills, line them up through the side window and lift up and fire as they cross. once you get used to the taters, you can make some pretty far shots if you can get the lead right. Another great way to get kills if you're fast is just to rope people. K4 holds E better than most planes and you can hammerhead back around on top of them as they start to stall out.

Hope some of that helped, half asleep right now so forgive me if it's choppy...  :salute
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Debrody on March 01, 2011, 01:55:13 AM
Tater: 225     MGs: 400
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: JUGgler on March 01, 2011, 12:15:37 PM
I like to hollow out K4s and wear them as slippers  :neener:


JUGgler
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: PFactorDave on March 01, 2011, 05:18:26 PM
Snapshots are always great ways to get kills, line them up through the side window and lift up and fire as they cross.

I kind of sort of remember an instructional thread awhile back where somebody (can't remember who) posted some screen shots and described how to use the side windows to line up the taters.  Anyone else remember that thread?  I'd be interested in finding it again.  I'll search some in awhile when I get back home to a real computer.

Do most of you guys tend to fire the taters separately then the MGs because of the difference in ballistics?
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Debrody on March 01, 2011, 05:30:41 PM
Grizz posted a very good writeup about aiming in a crossing snapshot, but i cant remember its title , maybe "aiming the tater" or something.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Bruv119 on March 01, 2011, 05:34:48 PM
tater =  point and click,   closer the better.  ;)
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Ardy123 on March 01, 2011, 06:25:18 PM
Do most of you guys tend to fire the taters separately then the MGs because of the difference in ballistics?

in a 109, the mgs are almost useless...

How to use the MG...
1) shoot at running planes to get them to turn, such that you get a full profile and can tater them
2) spray at them hoping to give them a PW, otherwise you will get picked long before you are able to kill them with it.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: PFactorDave on March 01, 2011, 06:29:49 PM
I found a thread by Agent360 about aiming the 30mm, but the picture links are long dead.  Haven't found one by Grizz yet.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: moot on March 01, 2011, 06:52:22 PM
in a 109, the mgs are almost useless...

How to use the MG...
1) shoot at running planes to get them to turn, such that you get a full profile and can tater them
2) spray at them hoping to give them a PW, otherwise you will get picked long before you are able to kill them with it.

Not if you can manage steady stream, EG a stead target where your stream lands in same spot for more than ~1 second.
Other points are accurate beyond reproach...

I found a thread by Agent360 about aiming the 30mm, but the picture links are long dead.  Haven't found one by Grizz yet.
Show the thread to me, I should be able to gripe him into giving me the pics so I can reupload em.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: PFactorDave on March 01, 2011, 06:59:03 PM
Show the thread to me, I should be able to gripe him into giving me the pics so I can reupload em.

This is it...

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,238513.0.html

I think there may have been a thread by Grizz also, I think I remember it.  Just haven't found it yet.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: BillyD on March 01, 2011, 07:08:24 PM
Yeah the trick is to preempt your enemy's turn to get that snapshot.... if he banks left pull left a few seconds unload g/ level wings and line up the shot.....aim low...Gwizz told me its easier to readjust low to hi vs hi to low
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: GNucks on March 01, 2011, 07:08:24 PM
<-- Prefers the G14 to the K4 almost every time  :noid

Whenever I up a 109 looking to dogfight I take the G14 with the 20mm in the nose. Better accuracy, muzzle velocity, rate of fire, and ammo. (And no having to learn how to use those darn taters  ;))

The G14 is still a wicked ride. Just a tad bit slower but still climbs like a bottle rocket. I only up K4's if I'm in the mood to throw taters at buffs (they have a habit of not rolling underneath you when you get close to them  :D )
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Ardy123 on March 01, 2011, 07:10:38 PM
Yeah the trick is to preempt your enemy's turn to get that snapshot.... if he banks left pull left a few seconds unload g/ level wings and line up the shot.....aim low...Gwizz told me its easier to readjust low to hi vs hi to low

I like to roll so that they are not under my sight but rather crossing from one side of my view to the other, this allows me to set up the shot better, esp because I have poor aim.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: BillyD on March 01, 2011, 07:45:09 PM
I like to roll so that they are not under my sight but rather crossing from one side of my view to the other, this allows me to set up the shot better, esp because I have poor aim.

 :) yeah thats what I mean aim lower on the crossing snapshot  :rock

pull in front by a couple of seconds in the turn...if the EA continues his turn you get the crossing snap " zero G tater"

WOWOWOWOW



Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: BillyD on March 01, 2011, 07:53:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3xF4V65u9E

heres my attempt at a brief film the zero G set ups are at 42 sec...note the EA does not continue his turn but gives me a shot anywhoo

at 1:06 or so I unload on an A8 trying to kill Thing...I'd say that was the best example the EA continued his turn giving me a full snap....I used alot of ammo but I had to insure the kill

Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: moot on March 03, 2011, 09:55:10 AM
Dave that K4 thread should work now.
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: PFactorDave on March 03, 2011, 11:14:25 AM
Dave that K4 thread should work now.

Thanks moot, thanks Agent360 too.

 :salute
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: JunkyII on March 03, 2011, 11:18:08 AM
If I was smart...which Im not I would find Grizz's thread to learn how to shoot tators :aok
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: PFactorDave on March 03, 2011, 11:24:31 AM
If I was smart...which Im not I would find Grizz's thread to learn how to shoot tators :aok

Eureka!  I found Grizz's thread!

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280043.0.html
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: JunkyII on March 03, 2011, 11:46:50 AM
Eureka!  I found Grizz's thread!

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280043.0.html
That is a huge thing in the K4, if your aim is good with a tator you can kill alot of red guys but the tator can get you out of almost impossible situations.

Example...other night Im fighitng a 3v1 P51, P47 and a Temp vs My K$....Im completely defensive but at the same time Im looking for one to go near my gunsights off a BRD

BOOM P51 pulled vertical up into my sights....BOOM P47 noobed it and missed a shot caught him on the tail....ping ping ping Temp gets a rad hit running away and soon death by ground

Fun stuff
Title: Re: Learning the 109K4
Post by: Debrody on March 03, 2011, 12:53:19 PM
Eureka!  I found Grizz's thread!

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280043.0.html
That. What Junky said, this technique can help you out when you need to deal with multiple cons.
One more thing, i use that double convergence becouse people tend to attempt to run away from me. I see its a bit comic to run away from a k-4, but a pony or dora can do it. I use the MGs to ping them from 600 out and make them turn. Then, when they are close, the tater will finish them quickly. I fire both of my guns in a turnfight too, to MGs help me aiming the tater. When you hit with them, lead a little bit more and the tater will hit the target.