Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Hannibal on February 28, 2011, 04:27:48 AM
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I have just returned to AH after a long break and am in the market for a new stick. I've gone through two x52''s so far. The first one wore out, the second one I just broke trying to mod the shift switch. I really like the x52 throttle and really my only issues with the sticks are the lightness of them and the giant hand rest/guard. Right before I broke my last one, I tried shimming the spring, and even shimmed to the max it still wasn't even close to tension I was looking for. I was going to order a CH untill I realized they don't seem to be much heavier than the saitek (not sure, would appreciate input on this). From what I can tell, Thrustmaster seems to be more what I am looking for. The warthog is just gorgeous and I want it but I can't really afford it, and I am not sure what the tension of the stick is like. I read somewhere that the Cougar had like 15 lbs of resitance compared to the x52's 2lbs , and I started to get wood, until I realized the cougar doesn't seem to be in production anymore (not sure about this either). I'm also wondering if it's possible to just buy the warthog or cougar(if they still make em) stick and use them with my saitek throttle. If they can be used together but the sticks aren't sold seperately then maybe there is someone out there that wants the throttle and not the stick and we can make a deal. Otherwise I am guessing my options are to forget about a heavy stick and jump on the CH bandwagon, or get another Saitek, maybe the pro this time and put a heavier spring on it. Unless someone has a Cougar set up they are looking to get rid of....
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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If you are willing to spend the money there are a few out there
Logitech g940
http://reviews.logitech.com/7061/5855/logitech-flight-system-g940-reviews/reviews.htm
Thrustmaster Cougar
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=221&PlatformID=5
Saitek x65
http://www.flightsim.com/main/review/x65f.htm
or you can look at all the reviews
http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_094a.html
and compare them all.
I personally have the Logitech g940 and I have had a blast with it. It has allot of programmable buttons on it, programmable force feedback and in my opinion sturdy contruction. But like video cards and operating systems people will say one is better than the other. The main question you want to ask yourself is, "whats right for me?". It took me a good 3 months to decide what I wanted and I can say for my choice I made the right one.
One thing that impressed me about the g940 is the power outlet for the stick and the throttle and the pedals are connected the the stick with gameport connections so it is all one piece. With the CH all items are separately connected to the computer via USB ports so you might have to purchase a separate powered USB hub. The thrustmaster warthog I dont know how that is connected so i cant give any output on that one.
Remember to take and look and review for yourself and I am sure you will make the decision that is right for you.
LawnDart :bolt:
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LawnDart,
you posted the link to the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS
here is the Thrustmaster CougarHOTAS:
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=11&PlatformID=5
( and about the only place one would prob be able to find a Cougar hotas would be ebay or online auction website )
hope this helps
TC
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oops thanks for the catch TC :lol :salute
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My X52 just went out so I think I'm going CH all the way . Got the CH pedals a few week's ago . So I will have the X52 throttle with the CH pedals and CH joystick . Not sure about getting head tracking yet ...
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I've had my chfiterstick for almost a year now. seriously, not as great as "they" say it is. i think my x52 was better and was more confortable to use. mine i had for a couple of years and finally gave it way to get the awesome chfiterstick since it woudnt break down. oh well, that's life.
semp
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I've had my chfiterstick for almost a year now. seriously, not as great as "they" say it is. i think my x52 was better and was more confortable to use. mine i had for a couple of years and finally gave it way to get the awesome chfiterstick since it woudnt break down. oh well, that's life.
semp
I agree with you there, semp. Tried both X-52 and CH and have to say X-52's ergonomics are way better. Put it up for sale in the AH classified section if you don't like it.
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I like the original Saitek Aviator. Had mine for 2 years with no problems. It's a simple design which looks much more like a WWII stick than a modern jet fighter.
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Thanks for all the help everyone. So it seems my options for a "heavy" stick are either force feedback with the logitech, zero movement with the x65, or buying a used Cougar. I was considering the logitech at one time, but I never really liked the look of it and wasn't sure about forrce feedback, but have since just read to many bad reviews.
I ruled out the X65 for lack of movement but now I wonder if that might turn out to be what I am looking for. I wonder if building something with the resistance I am looking for and mounting the X65 to that would work. What drives me nuts is all this shopping is by mail. It would be nice if stores carried these things so you could have some idea of what you are getting into. I was going to just bite the bullet and grab another x52 today just to get back in the air, but I can't find any stores that stock them anymore. The aviator was the third stick I had. It was a decent stick and I would be using it as a stand in if I still had it. I looked to buy another one of those also and couldn't find any in stores.
I'm not thrilled about the idea of buying a used stick, though I am not opposed to it either if i makes sense. Not sure if buying a used Cougar would make sense. Aside from quality and age question, I am not sure if I could use the Cougar with my saitek throttle or windows 7.
Can someone tell me how the tension of CH sticks compares to the X52? Am I right in my understanding that CH sticks are about the same or slightly heavier? Thanks again for the replies, they have been a big help.
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Why not just go for a warthog instead of a used cougar,unless the cost is an issue. If your looking for a heavy spring tension then I think you'll like the warthog.I know a player that has both a fully modded cougar and a warthog and he said the warthog was better in all respects.
I cant speak about the cougar myself but I own a warthog and then more I use it the more I like it,it returns to center so smoothly it feels like power steering... :rofl :rofl :rofl
:salute
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The cost is the only issue I have with Warthog. That's the one I want, and now I want it even more after that description, but it's just too much money. I still have my x52 throttle and I like using it. If I needed a throttle also, I would be more inclined to buy the warthog. If I could just buy the Warthog stick sans throttle, for say half the price or something, I would be all over it. I don't know if it's even possible to use the Warthog stick with a different throttle though from the pics I've seen they each appear to have their own USBs. If it is possible and there is someone out there that is happy with the stick they have but want the warthog throttle then we should talk. Otherwise I guess I will wind up settling for a CH just because it's a good stick I can buy without having to pay for a throttle too.
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Otherwise I guess I will wind up settling for a CH just because it's a good stick I can buy without having to pay for a throttle too.
Yeah , That's what I ended up doing .
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Ch sticks are not high tension but they are very precise.
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Hannibal,
The warthog stick and throttle are sepperate for each other,both have their own usb plug and I see no reason why you couldn't use "just" the stick with some other throttle.
Unfortunately I don't think you can purchase the stick without the throttle,atleast not as of yet.
:salute
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Ch sticks are not high tension but they are very precise.
Yeah, that's what I figured and what I meant by settling for a CH. Thanks for the info.
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Hannibal,
The warthog stick and throttle are sepperate for each other,both have their own usb plug and I see no reason why you couldn't use "just" the stick with some other throttle.
Unfortunately I don't think you can purchase the stick without the throttle,atleast not as of yet
Thanks for the info. Maybe I will buy the Warthog and put the throttle up for sale to recoup some of that money, though I know I would just wind up keeping the throttle once it was in my hands, unless I had a buyer lined up before it arrived.
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I don't know that one will work without the other if you are using the TM TARGET software. I think all the brains on the setup are in the throttle but I am not sure. I know that both items have a separate firmware though. Honestly Hannibal; if you get the whole Warthog setup I honestly believe that you will end up keeping the throttle. Its hands down the best flight sim kit I have ever used.
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Hi Hannibal,
I purchased the Warthog and used it for two months. It was great at the beginning although I found it to be real big and stiff (no pun intended) and needed to be bolted down to my nice cherry wood desk. It's a beatiful, solid and heavy piece of hardware. Mine worked flawlessly.
I noticed I had trouble in knife fights and my fighter score suffered big time. It's great if you only do B&Z. I was also getting cramps in my right hand and had to map views to the lower hat. I also felt the trigger was a bit stiff and was throwing off my aim so I mapped that to the throttle. By the way I am 6 feet tall and 185 pounds and athletic. Size 8 in surgical gloves which is fairly large size. Eventually I gave up on it and I am back to my CH setup (velcroed to my desk). Warthog is great for jet simulators but no for AH in my humble opinion. CH does evrything well for much less money. My dos chavos...:-)
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Valuable information. Thanks to everyone for the help. This is a fantastic community. I just realized if I bought the Warthog I would need pedals too so now it's definitely ruled out. Maybe in the future if the price goes down and the economy picks up I'll get one, but I've decided to order a CH stick and pedals. I just picked up a logitech 3d pro to use in the meantime, and I must say I am surprised. It's actually a nice stick for 35 bucks. I'm sure I will hate it by the time my CH stuff gets here though.
As far as rudder pedals go, I was wondering if the CH pedals being so close together still allowed room for having your stick center. Usually the base of my stick is between my legs. From what I've read it would probably be best to have the CH on my side anyway, so maybe I should just start playing that way. I'm also wondering about the noise of rudder pedals. It's not really an issue, I am just curious how noisy the pedals are.
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Hi Hannibal,
Warthog is great for jet simulators but no for AH in my humble opinion.
Which is why we all have different opinions. I don't have my Warthog bolted to anything at all but it is sitting on my desk centered in front of my monitor with my throttle beside it. I don't have problems in flying any aircraft in AH or any other games whether they be jet or prop based. BUT it is personal preference and probably from Warmongo pushing to hard to overcompensate due to being used to playing with the boy band, toy stuff from CH....hehehe!
I like CH stuff; its a good kit and reasonably priced....I just don't like it on my desk or in my hands.
For rudder pedals I have really liked my Saitek Pro Pedals and the guys I have chatted with that have their new Combat pedals say they are top notch as well. Nice placement wider than CH pedals and easy adjustments from what I have found and AH recognizes them easily.
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Ch sticks are not high tension but they are very precise.
Good Morning Hannibal,
as Urchin posted, CH sticks do not have a "high tension" on them, but one way around this I have used in the past is using 1 to 4 rubber bands on each axis
( NOTE: doing this to a new stick will cause one to void the warranty by breaking the warranty tape when trying to open it )
- one could opt out for higher tension springs but I would not recommend this route, for the rubberbands are cheap and easy fix that allows multitude of adjustment settings
I in past years have tinkered around with this and found for my personal taste, I like 3 regular rubber bands per axis for proper tension....... and was amazed at how easy it was to do and how it did not affect the stick in anyway... the gameport fighterstick I did this to lasted from like 96 til 08 with nary a problem and I gave it to another squad mate when I got my USB setup...
as for centering the CH Fiterstick between the legs and using rudders - This is nearly impossibly to do because of the Closeness of the CH Pro Pedals and the wide base of the Fiterstick
as for the Pro Pedals being noisy, I have never had a noisy pair of CH Pro Pedals even when not using headphones and having the game's sound muted or turned way down......
hope this is helpful -
TC
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Very helpfull. I was wondering about that. Sounds like an easy fix, but don't the rubber bands tend to wear out? And more importantly, don't they tend to wear out at different rates? Are you saying that the original rubber bands you put in it lasted 12 years? Or are you saying using the rubber bands had no adverse effects on the stick over the 12 years? Either way I am happy to hear of a solution. Warmongo's refering to CH stuff as "boy band toy stuff" has me worried.
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I seem to recall a post somewhere with photos of someone using condom rings for extra tension. :confused:
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Very helpfull. I was wondering about that. Sounds like an easy fix, but don't the rubber bands tend to wear out? And more importantly, don't they tend to wear out at different rates? Are you saying that the original rubber bands you put in it lasted 12 years? Or are you saying using the rubber bands had no adverse effects on the stick over the 12 years? Either way I am happy to hear of a solution. Warmongo's refering to CH stuff as "boy band toy stuff" has me worried.
the use of rubberbands had no adverse effects on the joystick.....yes over time they would become weak and break ( I would assume ).. I did not use them the whole 12 years I had the stick. I tinkered with it after using the CH FighterStick w/ Forcefeedback because the transition back to the regular fighterstick had me a bit hamfisted for a while.....
I only used the rubberbands solidly for about a yr and 1/2 til I got back to the easier smoother movement of the Fighterstick as it comes from the factory.... during that time I did not have no rubber bands break on me........ it did take me about a week or so to get the correct tension I was looking for and slowly worked my way down from there...
I wouldn't worry about Warmongo's reference to the boy band toy stuff or whatever...
is just a suggestion.... I would not void the warranty on any new stick, although I myself have never had to RMA any CH product I have owned.... and have only replaced 1 pot in one of my sticks since I been using CH back in the mid 90's
hope this helps
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Thanks for the clarification. At the moment I am so surprised by the logitec that I bought for 35 bucks to use as a stand in, that I'm thinking about just ordering parts and trying to make my own stick and pedals. Either way I have more time than I thought I had to make a decision. I'll definitely keep the tip in mind though. There's still a good chance I'll end up with a CH in my hand one day.
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There's still a good chance I'll end up with a CH in my hand one day.
Hannibal,
if you ever do decide to go and get a CH stick, you do not necessarily have to buy "NEW" stuff .....check out eBay or other auction sites or the Classifieds here on the AH BBS... out of all the accumulated CH hardware I have obtained in the past, I have yet to find any that had issues to where one could not play any games with em.......
so you might save yourself some major money buying used....unless you just want Brand New stuff with the warranty, etc....
best of luck either way
TC
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I have a cougar that I might be willing to sell to a good home. PM me if your interested
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I just picked up a logitech 3d pro to use in the meantime, and I must say I am surprised. It's actually a nice stick for 35 bucks. I'm sure I will hate it by the time my CH stuff gets here though.
Good stick at first, but it won't last forever. I've repaired my Logitech's rudder pot twice, and my next solution in the same price class might be a Thrustmaster T.16000M.
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Good stick at first, but it won't last forever. I've repaired my Logitech's rudder pot twice, and my next solution in the same price class might be a Thrustmaster T.16000M.
Yeah I spoke too soon on that one. This logitech is a piece of garbage.
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This logitech is a piece of garbage.
Nope. It's just cheap stick of old design. Cheap sticks can take only few months of active flying, and then you'll see spiking and calibration problems. Extreme 3D was also designed before HAL-sensors became cheap enough for low level stcks. Only thing that I can complaint of, is that there really is design flaw in rudder pot attachment, but the stick is very cheap for few months of fun.