Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: curry1 on March 10, 2011, 02:29:27 PM
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Does anyone have or know anywhere to find detailed plans of Essex class carriers? If so can you post a link here.
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(http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/s-file/s511-45.jpg)
ack-ack
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I suggest one of those goofy things you hold and read called a book :)
Lots of books on Essex Class Carriers listed here:
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=Essex+Class+Carriers&sts=t&x=0&y=0
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Yeah ack ack I have seen that and it isnt actually the final design it is a prototype.
I suggest one of those goofy things you hold and read called a book :)
Lots of books on Essex Class Carriers listed here:
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=Essex+Class+Carriers&sts=t&x=0&y=0
Then I would have to buy it :( And something tells me that wouldn't have schematics in it.
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also it isnt detailed enough it has lots of stuff missing.
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also it isnt detailed enough it has lots of stuff missing.
Lots of drawings in this book, Anatomy of the Ship: Intrepid. In fact almost the whole book is scale drawings.
http://www.amazon.com/Aircraft-Carrier-Intrepid-Anatomy-Ship/dp/0851779662
Yes you will have to buy it. :)
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Don't kid yourself, Ack-Ack drew that by hand.
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Don't kid yourself, Ack-Ack drew that by hand.
While clubbing baby seals with his other hand...
Finding construction blueprints, if that's the level of detail you want, is pretty rough. Then again construction blueprints are frighteningly unhelpful if you're trying to imagine life below decks, particularly on a bird farm.
There is something called a "library system" that has actual books you can borrow for a period of time; you might go talk to the elderly lady at something our generation called a "reference desk" and see what she can find for you. All of this costs nothing and you can learn amazing things there.
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dont they need to upscale the carriers in the game anyways? i have seen photos of the essex class in action, and the CVs in game seem to be a bit to small for the planes.
see how the planes are lined up on the stern of the deck. you cant do that with planes in the game
(http://military.discovery.com/technology/vehicles/ships/images/essex-625x450.jpg)
and were the essex class carriers using catapaults to launch the aircraft off the decks during WW2?
also they need to raise the elevator on the side of the deck. its getting really annoying if someone turns the CV right when you start your takeoff.
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dont they need to upscale the carriers in the game anyways? i have seen photos of the essex class in action, and the CVs in game seem to be a bit to small for the planes.
see how the planes are lined up on the stern of the deck. you cant do that with planes in the game
(http://military.discovery.com/technology/vehicles/ships/images/essex-625x450.jpg)
and were the essex class carriers using catapaults to launch the aircraft off the decks during WW2?
also they need to raise the elevator on the side of the deck. its getting really annoying if someone turns the CV right when you start your takeoff.
not only do we need updated carriers, but i think each faction should have its own type of cvs. instead of the same one.
like bishops get the essex class.
knights get the japanese cvs. (dont know the class name).
and rooks could get ether the british or german.
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not only do we need updated carriers, but i think each faction should have its own type of cvs. instead of the same one.
like bishops get the essex class.
knights get the japanese cvs. (dont know the class name).
and rooks could get ether the british or german.
German CV? Tell me which German CV saw any operational duties during the war.
ack-ack
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not only do we need updated carriers, but i think each faction should have its own type of cvs. instead of the same one.
like bishops get the essex class.
knights get the japanese cvs. (dont know the class name).
and rooks could get ether the british or german.
the germans had one. but it never went to sea from what i heard about it. i believe it was the graf zepplin.
(http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cv/dkm/grafzeppelin-720-ms/grafzeppelin-01.jpg)
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German CV? Tell me which German CV saw any operational duties during the war.
ack-ack
i thought they had atleast one, because i think i saw ppl talking about it ALONG time ago on these boards. they said germany had only 1 carrier, and they were wanting to make the k4 into a carrier plane, or something like that.
but stil, it would be nice to see some variety in our carrier&ship groups.
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i thought they had atleast one, because i think i saw ppl talking about it ALONG time ago on these boards. they said germany had only 1 carrier, and they were wanting to make the k4 into a carrier plane, or something like that.
but stil, it would be nice to see some variety in our carrier&ship groups.
yeah. she was the graf zepplin
this is the her. a beauty yes. but never saw action.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Graf-Zeppelin-1.jpg)
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I am looking for one that has lengths and widths at the waterline, lowest points down, where the openings in the sides are with heights, but it all needs to have exact measurements. TY all for being smart butts and telling me to look at the library they do not have any thing in the detail that I am looking for at my library.
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not only do we need updated carriers, but i think each faction should have its own type of cvs. instead of the same one.
like bishops get the essex class.
knights get the japanese cvs. (dont know the class name).
and rooks could get ether the british or german.
That would be incredibly unfair to the two countries that did not get the Essex class. The AAA firepower advantage the Essex class has over the others is massive.
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That would be incredibly unfair to the two countries that did not get the Essex class. The AAA firepower advantage the Essex class has over the others is massive.
not only that but japanese carriers wouldnt be as armored as the essex class. they could take huge, HUGE amounts of damage and still stay afloat. case in point the USS hornet i believe at the battle of the coral sea. took huge amounts of damage, and several torpedo's from a US cruiser. still wouldnt sink. they just abandoned her till the japanese gave her the final blow hours later.
PS. if they do update the CV i would love to see the catapults added for launching aircraft off the decks.
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I am looking for one that has lengths and widths at the waterline, lowest points down, where the openings in the sides are with heights, but it all needs to have exact measurements. TY all for being smart butts and telling me to look at the library they do not have any thing in the detail that I am looking for at my library.
http://www.amazon.com/Essex-Class-Carriers-Warship-Design-Histories/dp/0870210211
Yeah ack ack I have seen that and it isnt actually the final design it is a prototype.
While it was a prelimary design for the Essex class, it's showing the arrangement finally accepted.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/s-file/s511-45c.htm
See if you can contact the Naval Historical Center about this book, "1939-1944 "Spring Styles Book"
Actually, I think this might be the link to the "Spring Styles Book" : http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/albums/s511-cv.htm
This book might help as well, don't know if it has the actual plans but from the excerpts it looks like it may have the details you are looking for.
http://books.google.com/books?id=-UT7MDTeKj8C&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=Essex+class+aircraft+carrier+design+plans&source=bl&ots=HTgl4LxDUd&sig=hwnRo-z5uc5dIINXZVd4YPZkV5Q&hl=en&ei=yY15TcyyBJKecbvO7LwE&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Essex%20class%20aircraft%20carrier%20design%20plans&f=false
Might find some info here: http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/09.htm
ack-ack
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not only that but japanese carriers wouldnt be as armored as the essex class. they could take huge, HUGE amounts of damage and still stay afloat. case in point the USS hornet i believe at the battle of the coral sea. took huge amounts of damage, and several torpedo's from a US cruiser. still wouldnt sink. they just abandoned her till the japanese gave her the final blow hours later.
PS. if they do update the CV i would love to see the catapults added for launching aircraft off the decks.
i think you have your carriers mixed up sir. the hornet wasent involved in coral sea i believe.
it was the yorktown&lexington, in which the yorktown was badly damaged and the lexington was sunk.
the way you discribed the sinking of the carrier tho, it sounds like your discribing the yorktown at the battle of midway. which even tho badly damaged, stayed afloat and was thought to be salvageable until a jap sub snuck through the cruiser protection and put 1 last torpdeo into her which caused her to finally sink.
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http://www.amazon.com/Essex-Class-Carriers-Warship-Design-Histories/dp/0870210211
While it was a prelimary design for the Essex class, it's showing the arrangement finally accepted.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/s-file/s511-45c.htm
See if you can contact the Naval Historical Center about this book, "1939-1944 "Spring Styles Book"
Actually, I think this might be the link to the "Spring Styles Book" : http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/albums/s511-cv.htm
This book might help as well, don't know if it has the actual plans but from the excerpts it looks like it may have the details you are looking for.
http://books.google.com/books?id=-UT7MDTeKj8C&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=Essex+class+aircraft+carrier+design+plans&source=bl&ots=HTgl4LxDUd&sig=hwnRo-z5uc5dIINXZVd4YPZkV5Q&hl=en&ei=yY15TcyyBJKecbvO7LwE&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Essex%20class%20aircraft%20carrier%20design%20plans&f=false
Might find some info here: http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/09.htm
ack-ack
TY very much ack-ack
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i think you have your carriers mixed up sir. the hornet wasent involved in coral sea i believe.
it was the yorktown&lexington, in which the yorktown was badly damaged and the lexington was sunk.
the way you discribed the sinking of the carrier tho, it sounds like your discribing the yorktown. at the battle of midway. which even tho badly damaged, stayed afloat and was thought to be salvageable until a jap sub snuck through the cruiser protection and put 1 last torpdeo into her which caused her to finally sink.
will it was at the battle of the coral sea, and yeah im correct about the way the ship was sunk. they tried to save her but the captain didnt think it was salvagable and order the cruiser to torpedo her, but that didnt even sink her.
at the battle of midway the japanese pilots mistook the hornet for a diferent carrier and sunk the hornet. they thought they sunk 2 carriers, but it was infact the hornet. and your right it was the yorktown i believe. but idk i havnt really studied the battle all that well.
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will it was at the battle of the coral sea, and yeah im correct about the way the ship was sunk. they tried to save her but the captain didnt think it was salvagable and order the cruiser to torpedo her, but that didnt even sink her.
at the battle of midway the japanese pilots mistook the hornet for a diferent carrier and sunk the hornet. they thought they sunk 2 carriers, but it was infact the hornet. and your right it was the yorktown i believe. but idk i havnt really studied the battle all that well.
LOL so if you don't know, then trying to tell us how it went down seems a bit silly don't ya think?
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LOL so if you don't know, then trying to tell us how it went down seems a bit silly don't ya think?
i didnt know what ship it was.. i do know what had happened at the battle though. i just havnt studdied them all that much. but right now what we need is for the CVs to be upscaled in size to mach the size of the RL ones. and escort carriers. that and the catapults for launching aircraft.
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OK just to clarify a few things and neither of you is right. You've mixed bits and pieces of three different carriers and battles into your debate.
The Hornet was sunk at the Battle of Santa Cruz. It was abandoned and then US destroyers pumped 9 torpedos and 400 shells into her but she didn't sink. Later Japanese Destroyers put more torpedos into her and she finally went down. The Hornet in question was not an Essex class carrier but the same as the first Yorktown and Enterprise. There were plenty of 'tough' Essex class carriers with the Franklin coming to mind as the toughest.
The first Yorktown was damaged at Coral Sea, repaired and made it in time for Midway where she was sunk. She was attacked twice during the battle and the Japanese believed they had sunk two different carriers. Yorktown was also tough and almost made it but a Japanese Sub got inside the destroyer ring and put a torpedo into her and the Destroyer Hamman, sinking the destroyer immediately with the Yorktown going down later. There was also a second Yorktown that was an Essex class carrier, as there was a second Hornet.
The Lexington was sunk at the Battle of Coral Sea. She too almost made it, but internal explosions from aviation gasoline forced her abandonment and she was torpedoed by US Destroyers to finish her off.
At no point was there a Cruiser firing torpedos at these carriers to sink them. And yes there was an Essex class carrier named for the Lexington as well.
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After the attack on Pearl Harbor the US had two Lexington class carriers (Lexington and Saratoga) and three Yorktown class carriers (Yorktown, Enterprise and Hornet) in operation in the Pacific. Lexington was lost in the Battle of the Coral Sea, Yorktown was lost during the Battle of Midway and Hornet was lost during the Battle of the Sante Cruz Islands. Saratoga and Enterprise survived the war with Enterprise being the most decorated U.S. aircraft carrier of WWII having participated in every Pacific battle.
These were followed by the U.S. most numerous aircraft carrier class of WWII, the Essex class (22 built). Each of the previous class carriers that were lost had an Essex class namesake.
While there were far more Essex class carriers, those first five Lexington and Yorktown class carriers literally won the war in the Pacific for the U.S. The Hornet, just back from the Doolittle raid, lost all 15 of her torpedo bombers (TBD's) and all but one of the pilots (VT-8) during the Battle of Midway but they were able to bring the fighter cap down allowing Enterprise and Yorktown SBD's to wreak devestation on the Japanese.
Not a single Essex class carrier was lost in the war.
:salute to the brave men who fought and gave their lives in those early battles against the Japanese.
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After the attack on Pearl Harbor the US had two Lexington class carriers (Lexington and Saratoga) and three Yorktown class carriers (Yorktown, Enterprise and Hornet) in operation in the Pacific. Lexington was lost in the Battle of the Coral Sea, Yorktown was lost during the Battle of Midway and Hornet was lost during the Battle of the Sante Cruz Islands. Saratoga and Enterprise survived the war with Enterprise being the most decorated U.S. aircraft carrier of WWII having participated in every Pacific battle.
These were followed by the U.S. most numerous aircraft carrier class of WWII, the Essex class (22 built). Each of the previous class carriers that were lost had an Essex class namesake.
While there were far more Essex class carriers, those first five Lexington and Yorktown class carriers literally won the war in the Pacific for the U.S. The Hornet, just back from the Doolittle raid, lost all 15 of her torpedo bombers (TBD's) and all but one of the pilots (VT-8) during the Battle of Midway but they were able to bring the fighter cap down allowing Enterprise and Yorktown SBD's to wreak devestation on the Japanese.
Not a single Essex class carrier was lost in the war.
:salute to the brave men who fought and gave their lives in those early battles against the Japanese.
ah thank you for clarifying, i knew i had the ships mixed up. but back to the subject. we do need updated carriers. or atleast re sized. as you could plainly see in the first page. the picture of the Essex class carrier had 2 F6F's(F4F's if I'm wrong) wing tip to wing tip on the stern of the deck. granted they were placed there by deck crews (and we do not have those) but it proves my point that the carriers in the game are smaller then the real carriers.
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I am looking for one that has lengths and widths at the waterline, lowest points down, where the openings in the sides are with heights, but it all needs to have exact measurements. TY all for being smart butts and telling me to look at the library they do not have any thing in the detail that I am looking for at my library.
Why do you need exact dimensions?
No dimensions but all are to scale
http://books.google.com/books?id=Jj9J75vOuc4C&pg=PA53&dq=Essex+class+aircraft+carrier+design+plans&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
These are from the book I mentioned previously.
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... the carriers in the game are smaller then the real carriers.
have another look, they are to scale (they just look smaller from the cockpit.) I agree that the lift should be raised though ...
curry why dont you tell us exactly what you want the data for? would be much easier than guessing.
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Would be neat to have escort CV's in the game too, I really like the way the British Avenger class CV's look
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have another look, they are to scale (they just look smaller from the cockpit.) I agree that the lift should be raised though ...
curry why dont you tell us exactly what you want the data for? would be much easier than guessing.
I believe he would like to infer that our carriers are smaller than actual Essex class carriers with "facts".
That seems to be what he is hinting at without actually saying it. I would expect another thread in the near future to reflect this.
Stay tuned.
:lol
wrongway
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I believe he would like to infer that our carriers are smaller than actual Essex class carriers with "facts".
From this scale illustration, it kind of looks like AH has it right.
(http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/0209ab.jpg)
ack-ack
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From this scale illustration, it kind of looks like AH has it right.
(http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/0209ab.jpg)
ack-ack
well even from an outside look, it seems a bit small. it could also be related to the spawning point of the aircraft to. but this is just my view on it.
What about the carriers catapults? they were used in WW2. why not have them in use for AH2? and yes the elevator on the side of the deck does need to me raised.
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well even from an outside look, it seems a bit small. it could also be related to the spawning point of the aircraft to. but this is just my view on it.
What about the carriers catapults? they were used in WW2. why not have them in use for AH2? and yes the elevator on the side of the deck does need to me raised.
Use of the catapults varied. With the pre-war first-line carriers, catapult launches were rare due to the size and speed of the ships. However, as aircraft weights and sizes increased, catapult launches became more common by war's end with some ships reporting up to 40% of planes launched by catapult. I think the use of catapults were more common on the escort carriers because of their smaller size and slower speeds than full size carriers.
So it is not unrealistic for planes being able to launch off the CV without the use of a catapult in AH.
ack-ack
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Use of the catapults varied. With the pre-war first-line carriers, catapult launches were rare due to the size and speed of the ships. However, as aircraft weights and sizes increased, catapult launches became more common by war's end with some ships reporting up to 40% of planes launched by catapult. I think the use of catapults were more common on the escort carriers because of their smaller size and slower speeds than full size carriers.
So it is not unrealistic for planes being able to launch off the CV without the use of a catapult in AH.
ack-ack
still would be nice to have. maybe for aircraft carrying ords.
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Use of the catapults varied. With the pre-war first-line carriers, catapult launches were rare due to the size and speed of the ships. However, as aircraft weights and sizes increased, catapult launches became more common by war's end with some ships reporting up to 40% of planes launched by catapult. I think the use of catapults were more common on the escort carriers because of their smaller size and slower speeds than full size carriers.
So it is not unrealistic for planes being able to launch off the CV without the use of a catapult in AH.
ack-ack
Actually, with the Lexington and Yorktown class carriers the catapults were used less and less and eventually removed completely. They were never even installed on many of the Essex class carriers and removed from others however a few did see increased use of catapults by wars end.
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I believe he would like to infer that our carriers are smaller than actual Essex class carriers with "facts".
That seems to be what he is hinting at without actually saying it. I would expect another thread in the near future to reflect this.
Stay tuned.
:lol
wrongway
What's frightening at times is the 'facts' thrown out that are no where near close to any known truth :)
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Catapults.
How about THIS (http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/10864.html)?
(http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/hornet-hangar-catapult-launch.jpg)
I've also seen a video, somewhere, of a Wildcat taking off forward from the hangar deck of an early carrier. Enterprise or Yorktown, i think. Pre-war. Maybe it was just a picture in Life Magazine. In either case, I can't find it.
wrongway
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I believe he would like to infer that our carriers are smaller than actual Essex class carriers with "facts".
That seems to be what he is hinting at without actually saying it. I would expect another thread in the near future to reflect this.
Stay tuned.
:lol
wrongway
Nope nothing like that
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curry, I sent ya a PM...