Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CAP1 on March 12, 2011, 08:26:08 AM
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well not really.
customer lives in pa. took his honda pilot to scott honda for inspection. it failed for 2 motor mounts, and a passengers side inner tie rod.
he brought it to me for the repairs, so he could get it to pass. normally, nothing they said would've struck me, except for the fact that i ran a safety check on this car before he took it(although i did miss the motor mounts, as we don't fail them in nj)
so i put it in the air, check the mounts.....sure enough they are bad. check the front end again, and it still feels good and tight. so i call the dealer, and talk to the service advisor that wrote him up.
right off the bad, i explain to him that i'm the guy that works on this car for the owner, then ask why exactly the tie rod failed. he told me it has too much play. i tell him that i just checked it, and it's tight.
so what does mr service advisor say? we can put it in the air for you and show you. :bhead i replay with.....did you not hear me? i already have the car in the air, and am looking right at the tie rod. there is nothing wrong with it.
now, he starts backpeddling. he says that he can only go by what the tech says.(this is true, although when i ran a shop with mechanics under me, i always checked everyones work, since i was the one that was gonna catch poop).
so i ask him.....this tie rod is good, and i really don't want to replace it, as there's no way this guy should have to spend that money. what can we do? he says that it's the tech's lisence on the line, so if it failed, it has to be replaced to pass. more :bhead
called the customer. took him out in the shop, and showed him why he didn't need that tie rod, then took him to another car that has a bad one, and showed him. he took it back to them while i waited for the mounts to come in. he made them have another tech look at it.
know what this other tech said? well sir, it's not bad yet, but it's going to be bad soon. :bhead :bhead :bhead so WTF?? do these guys have automotive esp or something? the guy go tthe service advisor to agree to pass the car when it came back with the new motor mounts, but he wouldn't admit that his tech was wrong.
no wonder dealers make so much money. they prey on people that don't ask questions, and that they think are uninformed..............
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:lol "it isn't bad yet, but it's going to be bad soon".... :rofl
i'm very selective with who touches my car...after more than 35 years working on my own cars, the only reason i look for a mechanic is to do work i don't have the equipment for...if i hear, feel or smell anything out of whack i'll check it myself...then take it to my favorite shop and "get a second opinion"...if the parts need to be replaced, i buy my own and have the shop do the work.
unfortunately, most people wouldn't know a fuel injector from a muffler bearing...and dealer service departments are experts at selling muffler bearings.
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:lol "it isn't bad yet, but it's going to be bad soon".... :rofl
i'm very selective with who touches my car...after more than 35 years working on my own cars, the only reason i look for a mechanic is to do work i don't have the equipment for...if i hear, feel or smell anything out of whack i'll check it myself...then take it to my favorite shop and "get a second opinion"...if the parts need to be replaced, i buy my own and have the shop do the work.
unfortunately, most people wouldn't know a fuel injector from a muffler bearing...and dealer service departments are experts at selling muffler bearings.
Is this an inside joke? It seems as if I should get to know simple automotive stuff a bit better. Essentially, I'm the guy who is going to get swindled by the dealerships- would you guys explain this to me?
-Penguin
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Is this an inside joke? It seems as if I should get to know simple automotive stuff a bit better. Essentially, I'm the guy who is going to get swindled by the dealerships- would you guys explain this to me?
-Penguin
what part? the muffler bearing or the tie rod that's going to be bad "soon"?
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A part like an inner tie rod cannot be visually inspected without partial disassembly as
its covered by a rubber boot. Even once you pull the boot the inspection process is
more of a go/no-go type deal. If it has play it needs replaced, if its tight then your
good to go. After that very few inner tierods have external means of verifying wear.
To say it will go bad soon is a kin to saying a tire will fail because its three years old.
Strip
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All three parts-
- The tie rod,
- the fuel injector
- and the muffler bearing
-Penguin
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The only thing worse than the muffler bearing is the power steering reset switch.
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The only thing worse than the muffler bearing is the power steering reset switch.
nah, the steering reset switch is a piece of cake man...ever try replacing the ignition ratio modulator?
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even worse....ever tried evicting those spiders and their families out of the evap hoses?
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nah, the steering reset switch is a piece of cake man...ever try replacing the ignition ratio modulator?
I let the dealer take care of that one. :rofl
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even worse....ever tried evicting those spiders and their families out of the evap hoses?
ya, black flag wasp/hornet killer and 100lbs of air pressure works wonders...try getting the things out of the fallopian tubes.
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I always have a hard time keeping my blinker fluid filled properly. I never let dealerships work on my cars after my GMC 1500 i bought when I lived in NC. The day after I drove it off the lot I noticed that it was grinding and skipping when it went from 1st to 2nd gear (automatic and purchased used). The dealership looked at it, said there was some water in the transmission and they took care of it. The day after the 30 day warranty expired I get a call from the dealership saying my transmission was bad, but they could get me a refurb one for about $2500. I gave them a few choice words and took it to my mechanic. The trans. was bad but he got a refurb for just over $1000.
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A part like an inner tie rod cannot be visually inspected without partial disassembly as
its covered by a rubber boot. Even once you pull the boot the inspection process is
more of a go/no-go type deal. If it has play it needs replaced, if its tight then your
good to go. After that very few inner tierods have external means of verifying wear.
To say it will go bad soon is a kin to saying a tire will fail because its three years old.
Strip
don't even have to do that.
lift the tire off the ground. grab the tire at the 3 oclock, and 9 oclock positions. wiggle. you'll feel any play. play=no go. no play=good.
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Park that new car, it wearing out.
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ya, black flag wasp/hornet killer and 100lbs of air pressure works wonders...try getting the things out of the fallopian tubes.
:rofl
100 psi will destroy the rest of the evap system though.....
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That tie rod will probably be fine unless the throzzle rod is showing excessive wear. He needs to get his caliper and determine if the throzzle rod has less than 3000'ths of an inch clearance left on the main bushing bearing.
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I spun the muffler bearing last week, as it turns out the excuberator needed replacing.
What a pain in the butt.
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Park that new car, it wearing out.
'twerent that new...it's an 05, with 178k miles. dood's dumping too much money into it though..........
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All three parts-
- The tie rod,
- the fuel injector
- and the muffler bearing
-Penguin
Wow... Don't you have the interwebz???
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I'm still looking for a metric crescent wrench. :D
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It's called preventive maintenance .. is what that tec was doing .. I did , do the same thing on my truck . I sure don't want a tie rod end to brake going down the road . Had it to happen to me on a 72 firebird and it's not a fun ride .
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It's called preventive maintenance .. is what that tec was doing .. I did , do the same thing on my truck . I sure don't want a tie rod end to brake going down the road . Had it to happen to me on a 72 firebird and it's not a fun ride .
you misunderstand.......there was nothing wrong with this tie rod. it wasn't an end...it was the inner tie rod.
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Actually, thanks to Caps advice on the side, I found out that the guy that works on my car is being totally honest. I gotta replace the rear brake pads soon though. I really hate working on brakes.
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Oh i see CAP1 ..
Me too Dichotomy , the back brakes for sure ...
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nah, the steering reset switch is a piece of cake man...ever try replacing the ignition ratio modulator?
I had to replace my timing belt bearing axle lug once and that cost me a perdie penny..... :neener:
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Actually, thanks to Caps advice on the side, I found out that the guy that works on my car is being totally honest. I gotta replace the rear brake pads soon though. I really hate working on brakes.
rear pads on the stang shouldn't be too hard........i can't remember off the top of my head, if they're press in or spin in calipers....press in.....back brakes done in 20 minutes. spin in, you need something to spin the piston in, and it'll take about 45 minutes.
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I think they're press in. The only problem I have is the ex swiped my floor jack. Ya ya I know I need to get a new one but keep in mind I'm so lazy I married a pregnant woman first and one with three kids the second go round. ;)
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you kids and your muffler bearings :rolleyes: dont ya know the latest craze is repacking airbags :neener:
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you kids and your muffler bearings :rolleyes: dont ya know the latest craze is repacking airbags :neener:
you ever detonate one? it's kinda fun....not the safest thing in the world... but fun none the less.........
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Very nasty stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRPvaKbl1lo
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you ever detonate one? it's kinda fun....not the safest thing in the world... but fun none the less.........
i been in the heavy collision field for 22 years, probly set off more airbags then a crash dummy :lol
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you kids and your muffler bearings :rolleyes: dont ya know the latest craze is repacking airbags :neener:
lmao...i always wondered how they replaced one after it deployed...haven't cared enough to understand the full workings of the things either...i know it costs some serious cash to get one replaced.
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yeah and I hear they some times do more damage to you than the crash ?
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That would really depend on the specific crash in which you'd be involved. You might get a few burns but a dead stop frontal impact at 40+ mph being survivable is pretty cool. That my little brother is still alive after having one is pretty nice as well.
Something that just "barely" triggers the deployment could. Personally, I will take the nylon rug burn.
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That would really depend on the specific crash in which you'd be involved. You might get a few burns but a dead stop frontal impact at 40+ mph being survivable is pretty cool. That my little brother is still alive after having one is pretty nice as well.
Something that just "barely" triggers the deployment could. Personally, I will take the nylon rug burn.
As opposed to holding on, yourself? :noid
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/DansArmXRay.jpg)
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I don't follow. :headscratch: I'll take smacking into an airbag over the dashboard or steering wheel every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Oh, and...
Yeowza.
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yeah and I hear they some times do more damage to you than the crash ?
early airbags would burn some when they deployed. still better than kissing the steeriung wheel or windshield.
modern airbags don't so often burn you. all airbags will mess you up pretty badly though, if you're too close. it's not the airbag itself though, but rather the cover over it.
a friend was driving her frineds cadi.....she's only 5 foot tall........she got pretty well fubar'd from the cover....it ht her in the chest.
one other thing should be noted.....an airbag is nearly useless when you're not wearing your seatbelt. the lady that ho'd my mustang wasn't wearing her belt.....even with airbag deployment, she whacked the windshield.
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airbag deployed and broke your wrist? :O i know that had to hurt... :uhoh
i know i was lucky in my last collision...42mph t-boned a toyota camry with a ford escort station wagon...seat belts saved my face from the airbag and i took my hands off the steering wheel just milliseconds before impact...ended up with only a bruised chest...had to cut the seat belt to get out of the car...engine/transaxle crushed into the firewall and moved it into the compartment 3 inches...
i was doing close to 50 when the camry blew the stop sign on the cross street...then instead of hammering on the gas, the driver hit the brakes...it's amazing what the human brain does in a very short span of time when confronted with a dangerous situation...i heard myself say "oh hell, this is going to hurt"... :lol ...wasn't that bad, almost like getting punched... :headscratch:
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airbag deployed and broke your wrist? :O i know that had to hurt... :uhoh
i know i was lucky in my last collision...42mph t-boned a toyota camry with a ford escort station wagon...seat belts saved my face from the airbag and i took my hands off the steering wheel just milliseconds before impact...ended up with only a bruised chest...had to cut the seat belt to get out of the car...engine/transaxle crushed into the firewall and moved it into the compartment 3 inches...
i was doing close to 50 when the camry blew the stop sign on the cross street...then instead of hammering on the gas, the driver hit the brakes...it's amazing what the human brain does in a very short span of time when confronted with a dangerous situation...i heard myself say "oh hell, this is going to hurt"... :lol ...wasn't that bad, almost like getting punched... :headscratch:
ford's been using this amazing little thing called a "pre-tensioner". it's a small explosive charge that goes off when an impact is sensed.....and it pulls the seatbelt tight.
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ford's been using this amazing little thing called a "pre-tensioner". it's a small explosive charge that goes off when an impact is sensed.....and it pulls the seatbelt tight.
really? never felt it happen...may have been a disconnect of the brain but...i was pushing myself into the back of the seat anyway and the headrest was positioned properly.
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airbag deployed and broke your wrist? :O i know that had to hurt... :uhoh
i know i was lucky in my last collision...42mph t-boned a toyota camry with a ford escort station wagon...seat belts saved my face from the airbag and i took my hands off the steering wheel just milliseconds before impact...ended up with only a bruised chest...had to cut the seat belt to get out of the car...engine/transaxle crushed into the firewall and moved it into the compartment 3 inches...
i was doing close to 50 when the camry blew the stop sign on the cross street...then instead of hammering on the gas, the driver hit the brakes...it's amazing what the human brain does in a very short span of time when confronted with a dangerous situation...i heard myself say "oh hell, this is going to hurt"... :lol ...wasn't that bad, almost like getting punched... :headscratch:
Nope.
1986 Ford Ranger, no air bag. :aok
That was seatbelt, and sheer force of will holding me from going through the windshield.
Wrist gave out before seat belt and sheer force of will, although I had to cut my seatbelt off as the engine was halfway inside the cab and there was fuel everywhere... Head on @ 45-50 mph with a conversion van making a left turn across my lane of traffic. :O
At the time, I was wondering why the hell it was so hard to cut through the belt. I guess it helps when one's wrist is still attached to the end of one's arm :noid
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really? never felt it happen...may have been a disconnect of the brain but...i was pushing myself into the back of the seat anyway and the headrest was positioned properly.
you more than likely wouldn't feel it. it goes off milliseconds before the airbag.......
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you more than likely wouldn't feel it. it goes off milliseconds before the airbag.......
I was reading about that. Pretty neat device.
Wish my Ford had both at the time :aok
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I was reading about that. Pretty neat device.
Wish my Ford had both at the time :aok
i was doing nearly 45mph when the saturn crossed and whacked me ho. i had seatbelt on, but an 89 mustang doesn't have any airbags. i didn't stiffen up though. that's the key. most people that don't get thrown out of their car in an accident get hurt from going stiff.........that's when things break.
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i was doing nearly 45mph when the saturn crossed and whacked me ho. i had seatbelt on, but an 89 mustang doesn't have any airbags. i didn't stiffen up though. that's the key. most people that don't get thrown out of their car in an accident get hurt from going stiff.........that's when things break.
You don't say? :D
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If your seatbelt tension and seat distance from steering wheel is proper,then you shouldent get more then some slight bruising.
Its designed so that your body moving forward actually forces the burnt gasses out the vent holes in the back of the bag after deployment.
That said, if you impact the bag while its still expanding, then you get hurt.
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If your seatbelt tension and seat distance from steering wheel is proper,then you shouldent get more then some slight bruising.
Its designed so that your body moving forward actually forces the burnt gasses out the vent holes in the back of the bag after deployment.
That said, if you impact the bag while its still expanding, then you get hurt.
:lol ya, i see the steering wheel huggers driving down the road every day and laugh to myself...some don't have much choice due to genetics but the rest...if they only knew.
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If your seatbelt tension and seat distance from steering wheel is proper,then you shouldent get more then some slight bruising.
Its designed so that your body moving forward actually forces the burnt gasses out the vent holes in the back of the bag after deployment.
That said, if you impact the bag while its still expanding, then you get hurt.
that, and the covering.......like i said..my friend sits too close, 'cause she's short. the cover is what hit her in the chest.
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ford's been using this amazing little thing called a "pre-tensioner". it's a small explosive charge that goes off when an impact is sensed.....and it pulls the seatbelt tight.
everybody uses this these days, not just Ford.
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Last time I had an airbag deploy it ruined a perfectly good cigar...I hate those damned things.
shamus
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Last time I had an airbag deploy it ruined a perfectly good cigar...I hate those damned things.
shamus
WHEN I used to drive a tow truck, i towed a LOT of neons that were totaled not by the accident itself, but because the deployment of the airbags blew out all of the windows. this caused enough increase in repair cost to total the car.
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airbags do total way too many cars :bhead
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airbags do total way too many cars :bhead
I'm going to say this is one of those trade-offs that is worth it.
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I'm going to say this is one of those trade-offs that is worth it.
yea it is.
there is one downside to all of the safety features installed in modern cars though.
people tend to push limits. they figure since this stuff is there, that they don't have to pay attention to what they're doing as much as they used to.......mercedes is worst. if you've seen the commercials with the lady saying "i didn't realize i was drifting iinto the other lane" or the guy saying " i didn't realize that the truck in front of me stopped short"....and they all say their mercedes did. well? guess what? they SHOULD have realized these things. if they couldn't or didn't then they shouldn't be driving.
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WHEN I used to drive a tow truck, i towed a LOT of neons that were totaled not by the accident itself, but because the deployment of the airbags blew out all of the windows. this caused enough increase in repair cost to total the car.
Used Neons... Scratch the paint and it's a write-off. ;)
(Assuming the paint hasn't already peeled off)
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:lol "it isn't bad yet, but it's going to be bad soon".... :rofl
i'm very selective with who touches my car...after more than 35 years working on my own cars, the only reason i look for a mechanic is to do work i don't have the equipment for...if i hear, feel or smell anything out of whack i'll check it myself...then take it to my favorite shop and "get a second opinion"...if the parts need to be replaced, i buy my own and have the shop do the work.
unfortunately, most people wouldn't know a fuel injector from a muffler bearing...and dealer service departments are experts at selling muffler bearings.
Muffler bearings. Is that anything like a beam stretcher? Or a left handed sky hook?
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Muffler bearings. Is that anything like a beam stretcher? Or a left handed sky hook?
:rofl ...exactly
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:rofl ...exactly
Cant tell ya how many times I've sent some rookie to this person or that for a beam stretcher.
I had the left handed skyhook pulled on my when I was ear wet. But I didnt fall for it. Gotta remember the metric crescent wrench. Thats on I can pull on my son. LMAO
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one of our favorites is to see if we can get a parts guy looking for a radiator for a corvair, :devil
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oh, we had the 4 foot ground guide for vehicle movement...10 gallon can of back blast...50 gallon barrels of muzzle wash and prop wash...ignition keys for the jeep or the tank...the 5 ton fork wrench...various howitzer modulators...the track key link...several other non existent objects.
my favorite came from a squid corpsman...50 feet of fallopian tubing :rofl
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I bring my Jeep to the dealer for routine service, as they gave me 3 years of free oil changes. This expires in August, but I'll take advantage of it till then.
Last year, one of the service writers says to me, "we recommend changing rear axle oil at 12,000 miles."
"Are you guys tossing that in with the oil change?"
"No", he said. "This isn't related to he oil change."
"Why not?", I reply, "It's an oil change for the differential".
"It is, but that's not part of your service deal."
"Then why change it at 12,000 miles?"
"Because the oil breaks down over time", was his answer.
Shaking my head, I responded... "No it doesn't, not under normal use. That's a synthetic oil, and there isn't enough heat to break down that oil. Furthermore, Jeep recommends changing axle oil at 24k, 18k for severe off road use, and that's just to flush out fine metallic particulates than can accelerate wear. It has nothing to do with break down of the oil."
"It's just our recommendation..."
"Thanks, but I'll stick to the factory schedule."
Last week I was back for service and a different service writer says, "We recommend flushing the transmission fluid at 24,000 miles."
"You mean, drain and refill, right?"
"Correct."
Seeing yet another attempt to pad their income, I ask a simple question.. "Why?"
"The fluid breaks down from heat over time."
"I see..", I reply. "Then why does Jeep recommend the first change of the ATF at 60,000 miles?"
"Well", says the service geek, "that's the maximum mileage."
"But, 24,000 isn't even half way to that. Why would I want to change the fluid when the fluid isn't burnt, the tranny isn't slipping and my warranty requirement is 60K?
"That will minimize your risk."
Amazed still, I answer.. "I don't have any risk whatsoever. I have a lifetime, bumper to bumper warranty. All I have to do is follow the factory maintenance schedule to maintain it. So, I'll be passing on unneeded maintenance."
While it was in for service, I asked that the tech check the rear brake pads... They wear faster in the rear due to the Traction Control system and ESP and were getting close to worn out when I inspected them not more than two weeks prior. While the rear wheels were off, it was about the right mileage to rotate the tires. These monsters weigh 101 lb each, so it's much less back strain for the tech to do it than in my driveway. I specifically asked that they hand torque the lugs to 95 lb/ft. No air wrench please, I don't need my wheels cracked or studs on my spacers stretched. I told him it was okay to remove the lugs with the air wrench, but not to re-tighten them. "Torque wrench please, I know your guys have one back there somewhere. I have a calibrated 0-200 wrench in my tool bag, under the rear floor if they want to use it". The writer just gives me a look... "No air wrench... I'll be watching".
Well, about an hour later the service writer finds me standing at the window overlooking the shop, doing as I stated, watching. "Those pads are just about gone. Almost metal on metal. You'll need the rotors cut and new pads."
"They're not that bad, I measured about 1/8" remaining about two weeks ago. But, go ahead and replace them. However, do not cut the rotors. They are not warped and cutting them is a good way to lead to warping when they get hot."
He just looks at me, and says, "we recommend resurfacing the rotors."
"Why?"
"The pads won't match the surface and they will squeal."
"Nonsense. Bedded properly, they will not squeal at all. Besides, I don't want you to use the crap factory pads. I want you to install EBC Green Stuff 6000 series pads. They have a coating that will deglaze the rotor and are self bedding. The only consequence is a greater volume of pad dust until they fully bed."
Again, he just looks at me... "We don't stock those pads, only factory pads."
Now I'm getting annoyed at the never ending obtuse mindset.
"Pep Boys down the street stocks them. I know, because I was originally planning to change them myself."
"We don't buy from Pep Boys", was the lame reply...
"Not a problem." Within 30 seconds I'm talking to my daughter's friend Jay, manager of the local Pep Boys. I give a brief list of stuff I was going to buy anyway, as well as the pads. I ask if Jay could have everything delivered to the dealer's service door as my Jeep is on the lift. "Sure, no sweat". I give Jay my credit card info and 10 minutes later I hand the service dork the box of pads.. Free delivery and the discount.
About 15 minutes go by and the service manager comes out. "Mr. Jordan, you realize that we can't warranty those pads, since they're not a factory Jeep part."
"Since when do you guys ever warranty brake pads? Besides, EBC guarantees the pads."
He was just annoyed that I was unwilling to pay a huge mark-up on garbage brake pads and was limiting them to only the labor rate. The high end EBC pads were less expensive than the junk factory binders.
Needless to say, there are times when I wonder if the lifetime warranty is a fair trade for having to cope with the knuckleheads at the dealer.
I left the dealer after nearly three hours of legalized torture. I had two more stops to make. The last stop was to hand Jay a cold six pack of his favorite brew, Blue Moon Belgian White... A thank you for his kindness.
(edit for typo)
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:rofl widewing...pays to know what you're dealing with don't it? and to think the average owner would have left with a huge repair bill without understanding how it happened.
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12k miles? do those clowns realize there's people out there with over 200k on their diff. oil?
as for the tranny fluid....i think your car takes atf+4? that's fully synthetic. should be fine for quite awhile.
the rest of the stuff? i don't think i'd have had the patience you showed. i'd have let him know directly that i know at least what he knows(most likely more), so he'd not try to screw with me.
i'm gonna try for a 5.0 mustang later this year......so if i can afford it, it'll be going to the dealer for anything under warranty,...........
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12k miles? do those clowns realize there's people out there with over 200k on their diff. oil?
as for the tranny fluid....i think your car takes atf+4? that's fully synthetic. should be fine for quite awhile.
the rest of the stuff? i don't think i'd have had the patience you showed. i'd have let him know directly that i know at least what he knows(most likely more), so he'd not try to screw with me.
i'm gonna try for a 5.0 mustang later this year......so if i can afford it, it'll be going to the dealer for anything under warranty,...........
Yep Cap, AFT+4 in the tranny and power steering... Should not require changing for quite some time. Unless you overheat the tranny, something noob Jeepers sometimes do by running high range when they should be in low range. If the tranny idiot light comes on, put it in park and idle it for 10 minutes. Then, change out the fluid when you get a chance. Even the synthetics don't like 260 degrees F for very long. Plus, you risk boiling it out of the breather tube, right on the cat... ATF+4 burns nicely. Best bet for heavy duty use is to install an aftermarket tranny cooler.
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I bring my Jeep to the dealer for routine service, as they gave me 3 years of free oil changes. This expires in August, but I'll take advantage of it till then.
Last year, one of the service writers says to me, "we recommend changing rear axle oil at 12,000 miles."
"Are you guys tossing that in with the oil change?"
"No", he said. "This isn't related to he oil change."
"Why not?", I reply, "It's an oil change for the differential".
"It is, but that's not part of your service deal."
"Then why change it at 12,000 miles?"
"Because the oil breaks down over time", was his answer.
Shaking my head, I responded... "No it doesn't, not under normal use. That's a synthetic oil, and there isn't enough heat to break down that oil. Furthermore, Jeep recommends changing axle oil at 24k, 18k for severe off road use, and that's just to flush out fine metallic particulates than can accelerate wear. It has nothing to do with break down of the oil."
"It's just our recommendation..."
"Thanks, but I'll stick to the factory schedule."
Last week I was back for service and a different service writer says, "We recommend flushing the transmission fluid at 24,000 miles."
"You mean, drain and refill, right?"
"Correct."
Seeing yet another attempt to pad their income, I ask a simple question.. "Why?"
"The fluid breaks down from heat over time."
"I see..", I reply. "Then why does Jeep recommend the first change of the ATF at 60,000 miles?"
"Well", says the service geek, "that's the maximum mileage."
"But, 24,000 isn't even half way to that. Why would I want to change the fluid when the fluid isn't burnt, the tranny isn't slipping and my warranty requirement is 60K?
"That will minimize your risk."
Amazed still, I answer.. "I don't have any risk whatsoever. I have a lifetime, bumper to bumper warranty. All I have to do is follow the factory maintenance schedule to maintain it. So, I'll be passing on unneeded maintenance."
While it was in for service, I asked that the tech check the rear brake pads... They wear faster in the rear due to the Traction Control system and ESP and were getting close to worn out when I inspected them not more than two weeks prior. While the rear wheels were off, it was about the right mileage to rotate the tires. These monsters weigh 101 lb each, so it's much less back strain for the tech to do it than in my driveway. I specifically asked that they hand torque the lugs to 95 lb/ft. No air wrench please, I don't need my wheels cracked or studs on my spacers stretched. I told him it was okay to remove the lugs with the air wrench, but not to re-tighten them. "Torque wrench please, I know your guys have one back there somewhere. I have a calibrated 0-200 wrench in my tool bag, under the rear floor if they want to use it". The writer just gives me a look... "No air wrench... I'll be watching".
Well, about an hour later the service writer finds me standing at the window overlooking the shop, doing as I stated, watching. "Those pads are just about gone. Almost metal on metal. You'll need the rotors cut and new pads."
"They're not that bad, I measured about 1/8" remaining about two weeks ago. But, go ahead and replace them. However, do not cut the rotors. They are not warped and cutting them is a good way to lead to warping when they get hot."
He just looks at me, and says, "we recommend resurfacing the rotors."
"Why?"
"The pads won't match the surface and they will squeal."
"Nonsense. Bedded properly, they will not squeal at all. Besides, I don't want you to use the crap factory pads. I want you to install EBC Green Stuff 6000 series pads. They have a coating that will deglaze the rotor and are self bedding. The only consequence is a greater volume of pad dust until they fully bed."
Again, he just looks at me... "We don't stock those pads, only factory pads."
Now I'm getting annoyed at the never ending obtuse mindset.
"Pep Boys down the street stocks them. I know, because I was originally planning to change them myself."
"We don't buy from Pep Boys", was the lame reply...
"Not a problem." Within 30 seconds I'm talking to my daughter's friend Jay, manager of the local Pep Boys. I give a brief list of stuff I was going to buy anyway, as well as the pads. I ask if Jay could have everything delivered to the dealer's service door as my Jeep is on the lift. "Sure, no sweat". I give Jay my credit card info and 10 minutes later I hand the service dork the box of pads.. Free delivery and the discount.
About 15 minutes go by and the service manager comes out. "Mr. Jordan, you realize that we can't warranty those pads, since they're not a factory Jeep part."
"Since when do you guys ever warranty brake pads? Besides, EBC guarantees the pads."
He was just annoyed that I was unwilling to pay a huge mark-up on garbage brake pads and was limiting them to only the labor rate. The high end EBC pads were less expensive than the junk factory binders.
Needless to say, there are times when I wonder if the lifetime warranty is a fair trade for having to cope with the knuckleheads at the dealer.
I left the dealer after nearly three hours of legalized torture. I had two more stops to make. The last stop was to hand Jay a cold six pack of his favorite brew, Blue Moon Belgian White... A thank you for his kindness.
(edit for typo)
:rofl , that is great. Do you know why mechanics work at a dealrship and not have their own shop like CAP1?
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Yep Cap, AFT+4 in the tranny and power steering... Should not require changing for quite some time. Unless you overheat the tranny, something noob Jeepers sometimes do by running high range when they should be in low range. If the tranny idiot light comes on, put it in park and idle it for 10 minutes. Then, change out the fluid when you get a chance. Even the synthetics don't like 260 degrees F for very long. Plus, you risk boiling it out of the breather tube, right on the cat... ATF+4 burns nicely. Best bet for heavy duty use is to install an aftermarket tranny cooler.
be careful to only use the atf+4 in your steering too. if it's the same as on the town and country minivans, anything else, and it'll start whining as if it's empty.
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Amazed still, I answer.. "I don't have any risk whatsoever. I have a lifetime, bumper to bumper warranty. All I have to do is follow the factory maintenance schedule to maintain it. So, I'll be passing on unneeded maintenance."
Good story.
I am curious about one thing, how did you get a "lifetime bumper to bumper warranty"? Most I have seen is 10 years or 100,000 miles. Is this the manufacture warranty, or an aftermarket warranty?
The reason I ask is because I drive a vehicle till the wheels fall off. If Jeep offers a lifetime bumper to bumper warranty, then my next vehicle will be a Jeep. :D
Fred
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Good story.
I am curious about one thing, how did you get a "lifetime bumper to bumper warranty"? Most I have seen is 10 years or 100,000 miles. Is this the manufacture warranty, or an aftermarket warranty?
The reason I ask is because I drive a vehicle till the wheels fall off. If Jeep offers a lifetime bumper to bumper warranty, then my next vehicle will be a Jeep. :D
Fred
For 2008 and part of 2009, Chrysler offered a lifetime power train warranty for free. They also offered their maxcare service contract program that extended the warranty to the entire vehicle. However, unlike repairs to the power train, the balance of the vehicle carries a $100 deductible. Asking price for the Maxcare contract was $2000. I negotiated it down to $1600. When one considers that an air conditioning compressor can cost $1100, it was a no brainer for me. The single issue with the lifetime power train warranty is that if the cost of the repair should exceed the value of the vehicle, Chrysler has the option to buy back the car for its value. This makes the warranty questionable for a Dodge Caliber, which depreciates like nuke power stocks. However, the Wrangler holds it value very well, retaining as much as 70% of its sticker price after 5 years.
These days, Chrysler is sorry they ever offered that warranty. The bean counters see nothing but red ink in the future relative to these vehicles. Thus, Chrysler is offering dealers incentives to get these vehicles back in trade (whereupon the warranty is voided). I discovered this when a salesman offered to give me $22,300 for the JK if I traded for a 2010 or a 2011 due in the showrooms almost any day (at that time). Consider that my Jeep was stickered at $26,120 and I negotiated the price down to $22,500 (in August of 2008 when sales were off almost 60%). So, they offered me essentially what I paid for it and it was two years old with 17,000 miles on it. But, I was not interested. That warranty was a huge incentive and I wasn't tossing it out for slightly newer Wrangler.
Today Jeep offers a 3/36 bumper to bumper and 5/100,000 on the power train. You can still buy the maxcare service contract, but the price has gone up.
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This is nothing compared how creative techs get when raping warranty.
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For 2008 and part of 2009, Chrysler offered a lifetime power train warranty for free. They also offered their maxcare service contract program that extended the warranty to the entire vehicle. However, unlike repairs to the power train, the balance of the vehicle carries a $100 deductible. Asking price for the Maxcare contract was $2000. I negotiated it down to $1600. When one considers that an air conditioning compressor can cost $1100, it was a no brainer for me. The single issue with the lifetime power train warranty is that if the cost of the repair should exceed the value of the vehicle, Chrysler has the option to buy back the car for its value. This makes the warranty questionable for a Dodge Caliber, which depreciates like nuke power stocks. However, the Wrangler holds it value very well, retaining as much as 70% of its sticker price after 5 years.
These days, Chrysler is sorry they ever offered that warranty. The bean counters see nothing but red ink in the future relative to these vehicles. Thus, Chrysler is offering dealers incentives to get these vehicles back in trade (whereupon the warranty is voided). I discovered this when a salesman offered to give me $22,300 for the JK if I traded for a 2010 or a 2011 due in the showrooms almost any day (at that time). Consider that my Jeep was stickered at $26,120 and I negotiated the price down to $22,500 (in August of 2008 when sales were off almost 60%). So, they offered me essentially what I paid for it and it was two years old with 17,000 miles on it. But, I was not interested. That warranty was a huge incentive and I wasn't tossing it out for slightly newer Wrangler.
Today Jeep offers a 3/36 bumper to bumper and 5/100,000 on the power train. You can still buy the maxcare service contract, but the price has gone up.
Thanks for the response. I'm sorry I missed that deal. I have never been a fan of Chrysler Products, but had I known about that lifetime warranty, I would have bought one in a second.
Fred