Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ozrocker on March 14, 2011, 03:40:52 PM
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I would start shopping for a gently used Geiger counter.
<S> Oz
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Poor taste and humorless :huh :huh :huh :huh :furious :furious
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oh heavens yes the sky is falling, get your facts correct
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Your press has made a huge blunder in unit conversion and reporting. It appears everyone is copying the same mistake.
The units for radiation released earlier in Japan were in μSv (microsievert).
Your press is reporting it as mSv (millisievert) or converting that into the old unit, rems.
Take the value of mSv or rems reported and divide that by 1,000 to get the real amount.
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i'm kinda shocked to see anyone over here making fun of this........
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Poor taste and humorless :huh :huh :huh :huh :furious :furious
You probably don't appreciate the subtle humor of biting the head off a bat either.
HONK!
Gooss
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Ozzy Osbourne's kids went to the same primary school as me. I kissed the eldest daughter, Amy, at a disco when I was about 10.
er...sorry...carry on.
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Ozzy Osbourne's kids went to the same primary school as me. I kissed the eldest daughter, Amy, at a disco when I was about 10.
er...sorry...carry on.
:rofl Have you just been waiting for a closely related topic to put that little gem out there?
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yep and it took nearly 8 years :lol
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I would start shopping for a gently used Geiger counter.
<S> Oz
Is this supposed to be funny? Because I dont find your sarcasm funny one bit.
-BigBOBCH
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They NEED to get iodine pills to keep the particles out of our system.
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They NEED to get iodine pills to keep the particles out of our system.
Which would do absolutely nothing in the case of radiation exposure.
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I'm on the east coast...but why are there concerns of radiation hitting the west coast? the powerplant failures I doubt are as bad as the 2 atomic bombs we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and no one over on the west coast was effected, no?
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I'm on the east coast...but why are there concerns of radiation hitting the west coast? the powerplant failures I doubt are as bad as the 2 atomic bombs we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and no one over on the west coast was effected, no?
because the medai needs to hype this up as much as they can.
i think rolex has stated in other threads that what we're hearing in the us is totally different than what they're hearing........?
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On the other hand, California has 2 nuclear power plants built close to major fault lines.
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because the medai needs to hype this up as much as they can.
i think rolex has stated in other threads that what we're hearing in the us is totally different than what they're hearing........?
US Media = Sensationalized Political Driven Steaming Pile o Crap
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US Media = Sensationalized Political Driven Steaming Pile o Crap
aawwww...mmmaaannn.......now ya dun gone and dun it...........we agree on something.......does this mean the world is gonna implode in 30 seconds or something? :noid :noid
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aawwww...mmmaaannn.......now ya dun gone and dun it...........we agree on something.......does this mean the world is gonna implode in 30 seconds or something? :noid :noid
:noid :D
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:noid :D
I think the planet getting shifted a bit on its axis must have done something to you guys.
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News flash... A tree was located in Pennsylvania with the following inscription: "CAP+Grizz 4evar". It was encircled by what one witness described as "a very sweet looking heart shape, with an arrow carved through it". The crime lab has processed the tree and has said that there is what appears to be a motor oil like substance soaked into part of the inscription. Also puzzling is the fact that police have found numerous potatoes scattered around the crime scene. More to come as details of this shocking situation become known.
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Which would do absolutely nothing in the case of radiation exposure.
What are they for?
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What are they for?
As far an their use in a nuclear disaster, making the public feel safer. They help protect the thyroid, which is useless when your entire body is exposed to a dose.
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News flash... A tree was located in Pennsylvania with the following inscription: "CAP+Grizz 4evar". It was encircled by what one witness described as "a very sweet looking heart shape, with an arrow carved through it". The crime lab has processed the tree and has said that there is what appears to be a motor oil like substance soaked into part of the inscription. Also puzzling is the fact that police have found numerous potatoes scattered around the crime scene. More to come as details of this shocking situation become known.
**NEWS UPDATE**
AP: Investigation into the mysterous appearance of the heart on the tree in PA took a turn for the bizarre today, when it was learned that neither Grizz or Cap are from PA. Sources close to the investigations believe it may have been one of CAPS squadies that carved the heart. Mbailey of Coopersburg PA denied all responsibilty when asked about the heart, located on a tree approx 100yards from his PA home.When asked about the heart, Mbailey stated " wasnt me :noid" and ran into the house,peeking out of the blinds appx 2 mins later. Full story at 11. :D
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Poor taste and humorless :huh :huh :huh :huh :furious :furious
Nothing in my posts suggests humor.
<S> Oz
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Is this supposed to be funny? Because I dont find your sarcasm funny one bit.
-BigBOBCH
Not sarcasm.
Perhaps black humor.
Paranoia?
Never trust the media (except to get it wrong, and overbloat the truth)
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i'm laughing my bellybutton off at the last couple posts!!
taters scattered around the tree...... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :noid :bolt:
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Ozzy Osbourne's kids went to the same primary school as me. I kissed the eldest daughter, Amy, at a disco when I was about 10.
er...sorry...carry on.
10 points for a minor celebrity snog :aok
and an extra 10 for snogging the correct Osborne daughter :aok
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US Media = Sensationalized Political Driven Steaming Pile o Crap
So very true
Thank god the current media wasn't in place in us old farts time when atomic and hydrogen bombs were tested above ground in the
Pacific and Nevada. They would have had us all in lead suits and sucking down Potassium Iodide with every meal. When I see more than 5 or 6 reactors look like Bikini Island testing, then maybe i'll get worried.
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News flash... A tree was located in Pennsylvania with the following inscription: "CAP+Grizz 4evar". It was encircled by what one witness described as "a very sweet looking heart shape, with an arrow carved through it". The crime lab has processed the tree and has said that there is what appears to be a motor oil like substance soaked into part of the inscription. Also puzzling is the fact that police have found numerous potatoes scattered around the crime scene. More to come as details of this shocking situation become known.
:rofl
Well played.
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Sometimes you need to have poor taste to make the right point.... Lighten up Francis.
Poor taste and humorless :huh :huh :huh :huh :furious :furious
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If anything it might be worth it to get some Potassium Iodate Pills or Liquid for your first aid kit.
I am not joking.
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ok I will bite, if humor was not your intent then pray tell what was your intention?
Nothing in my posts suggests humor.
<S> Oz
Possibly to incite fear or misinformation? just wondering :huh
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The only thing keeping the rest of the world out of the Japan problem is the wind near Japan right now. There is no misinformation at all in his post. :salute
ok I will bite, if humor was not your intent then pray tell what was your intention? Possibly to incite fear or misinformation? just wondering :huh
Now most people call me somewhat anxious but.......... I am still here!
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:huh
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ok I will bite, if humor was not your intent then pray tell what was your intention? Possibly to incite fear or misinformation? just wondering :huh
Incite fear? There's a Nuclear crisis and I'm trying to incite fear?
I'm scared, worried. I have kids and Grandchildren. I'm scared for what future generations
will have to deal with because of this too.
If you're not at this point, you're a blind fool.
<S> Oz
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Incite fear? There's a Nuclear crisis and I'm trying to incite fear?
I'm scared, worried. I have kids and Grandchildren. I'm scared for what future generations
will have to deal with because of this too.
If you're not at this point, you're a blind fool.
<S> Oz
Man, the West Woast is 4.500 miles from Fukushima. I'm sure there was a lot more danger from exposure to radiactive particles during the atmospheric nuclear tests of the fifties and early sixties, and I haven't heard of any zombie uprising on north america on the last decades.
From Wikipedia:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/US_fallout_exposure.png)
"Per capita thyroid doses in the continental United States of Iodine-131 resulting from all exposure routes from all atmospheric nuclear tests conducted at the Nevada Test Site."
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I haven't heard of any zombie uprising on north america on the last decades.
Guess you havent been on the Vegas Strip from 3 to 7 am lol
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***NEWS FLASH***
MBailey was seen entering the the woods around Coopersburg Pa with what could only be described as a large carving knife, a bag of potatoes and a smile. When confronted about it he says " I just want to let the world know of my love for CAPS and .....is that thing on???" :bhead
He ran inside again and wasn't seen exiting his house. More at 7.
LawnDart
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As far an their use in a nuclear disaster, making the public feel safer. They help protect the thyroid, which is useless when your entire body is exposed to a dose.
The rest of your body is being exposed temporarily by an outside source, thyroid stores it permanently in your throat. Quite a difference.
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The rest of your body is being exposed temporarily by an outside source, thyroid stores it permanently in your throat. Quite a difference.
The reactors in Japan are not releasing radiation that iodine pills would protect you against
But let irrational fear stay alive :aok
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I have also heard of out of date iodine pills being sold in California. There is also a rush in people stocking up in them.
Taking old medicines, and buying medicine from untrusted sources will kill and harm more people than the radiation will (which will be zero in California).
Fear mongering at it's finest.
The nuclear industry in this country makes sure each plant has enough iodine pills for all those in harm's way of it's reactors by the way, although I have yet to meet a nuclear worker (plant workers or travelling contractors) who ever took an iodine pill.
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Iodine pills only protect against radioactive forms of Iodine (which are not being emitted in Japan). They also must be taken within a few hours of exposure. You don't just pop a few here and there and call yourself safe.
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I have also heard of out of date iodine pills being sold in California. There is also a rush in people stocking up in them.
Taking old medicines, and buying medicine from untrusted sources will kill and harm more people than the radiation will (which will be zero in California).
Fear mongering at it's finest.
The nuclear industry in this country makes sure each plant has enough iodine pills for all those in harm's way of it's reactors by the way, although I have yet to meet a nuclear worker (plant workers or travelling contractors) who ever took an iodine pill.
Nuclear workers do not get exposed to radioactive iodine at their work since it gets released only on major accidents. How would you meet one? And spare me the story about the soviet - they give glowing toys to kids. Yes, that kind of glowing lol.
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Nuclear workers do not get exposed to radioactive iodine at their work since it gets released only on major accidents. How would you meet one? And spare me the story about the soviet - they give glowing toys to kids. Yes, that kind of glowing lol.
Those in Japan are not being exposed to radioactive forms of Iodine either. Why should they be taking them?
As far as the Soviet comment, I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.
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Incite fear? There's a Nuclear crisis and I'm trying to incite fear?
I'm scared, worried. I have kids and Grandchildren. I'm scared for what future generations
will have to deal with because of this too.
If you're not at this point, you're a blind fool.
<S> Oz
I can draw on a napkin the concept of a modern operational nuclear power plant and reactor assembly in detail, can you? Be careful who you call a blind fool, especialy when the industry has had two very memorable and noteworthy disasters already caused by a couple that it's learned from and taken the lessons from forward with them.
I've been following the news on the situation very closely, what concerns me is that it is only as the media is portraying it. The best I can assume from the bits the media does pass through that's useful is the plants performed the best they could (the one in the worse shape had three active reactors going when the quake hit, was designed decades ago, and to survive a 7.0 eathquake. given the situation it has performed superbly and above design specs. however the management and operators at the plant, who elected to push and fight for a 10-year extension on the plant's life beyond its safe lifespan that expired this february, who are in charge of forming and executing disaster management plans, who have made questionable and delayed decisions in the aftermath of this quake (big surprise since they fought with the IAEA to extend the life of the plant 10-years beyond what it had been safely designed to handle, and directly against safety and modernizing the plant)), however some glaring human-errors may be at fault for what's going on here with the critical situation that has developed.
I'm afraid this is going to be a situation where the atomic energy industry suffers a very high price and setback for the actions and decisions of money-grubbing dolts who should never of been in the position to own or manage one of these facilities. IE: If you give one hospital to a management team of doctors and nurses, and give an identical hospital to a team of lawyers and accountants, and see what the results are gonna be down the road or in the face of a natural disaster, which one will of saved the most lives and have the better facilities, staff and technology?
Also, do yourself a favor in regards to your OP, read up on the historical Crossroads nuclear tests, in particular why it was stopped imediatley after Test Shot B (explosion two of three planned) and C was cancelled. As this is non-atmospheric, I really do hope there are more idiots in this country like you so maybe the property prices will finally drop and be reasonable out here where I live and intend to keep doing so, third-arm and all :rolleyes: .
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The Soviet disaster at Chernoble is only looked down upon in such a shameful manner because they got co!@y and had the reactor vessel sitting out there wide in the open. No backup systems, shieldings, safety procedures, nada, zip, zilch - ontop of puttign the da!@ thing in the middle of a metropolitan area! Darwin could of told you that it was a situation where they were overconfident that their failure was believing nothing could or ever would go wrong, that it was a flaw to think that nobody, especialy a soviet nuclear engineer or plant worker, could or ever would make a single fatal mistake or error... well someone did, and it resulted in a compromise in the reactor vessel and imediate and direct exposure of the live-hot reactor core (they didn't imediatley or weren't able to disengage it after the accident, and as a result it was now exposed to the environment with the switch stuck in the "on" position).
Three Mile Island was the same thing, not enough backups or safety produres studied or in place and someone made a fatal mistake that cause a breach in the reactor vessel. Three Mile was even worse on scale because it was a much larger reactor than Chernoble that was compromised... however, and ever thankfuly, someone somewhere mandated a concrete dome/shield be built around the contained inner reactor vessel. As a result, to this day, the most radioactive place known to man exists(ed) inside that conrete dome that housed that reactor on Three Mile Island.
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The Soviet disaster at Chernoble is only looked down upon in such a shameful manner because they got co!@y and had the reactor vessel sitting out there wide in the open. No backup systems, shieldings, safety procedures, nada, zip, zilch - ontop of puttign the da!@ thing in the middle of a metropolitan area! Darwin could of told you that it was a situation where they were overconfident that their failure was believing nothing could or ever would go wrong, that it was a flaw to think that nobody, especialy a soviet nuclear engineer or plant worker, could or ever would make a single fatal mistake or error... well someone did, and it resulted in a compromise in the reactor vessel and imediate and direct exposure of the live-hot reactor core (they didn't imediatley or weren't able to disengage it after the accident, and as a result it was now exposed to the environment with the switch stuck in the "on" position).
Three Mile Island was the same thing, not enough backups or safety produres studied or in place and someone made a fatal mistake that cause a breach in the reactor vessel. Three Mile was even worse on scale because it was a much larger reactor than Chernoble that was compromised... however, and ever thankfuly, someone somewhere mandated a concrete dome/shield be built around the contained inner reactor vessel. As a result, to this day, the most radioactive place known to man exists(ed) inside that conrete dome that housed that reactor on Three Mile Island.
And because of Three Mile Island, the United States now has the highest trained, most safety oriented nuclear industry on the planet. It completely revolutionized the operation of nuclear reactors in this country.
By the way, the Three Mile Island event was caused by control room operators insisting they were correct, and ignoring what their gauges and readouts were telling them was right. There was no mechanical failure or any fault to the nuclear reactor design, it was 100% human error. And also showed us how safe a nuclear reactor actually is, even when humans try their best to screw it up.
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And because of Three Mile Island, the United States now has the highest trained, most safety oriented nuclear industry on the planet. It completely revolutionized the operation of nuclear reactors in this country.
By the way, the Three Mile Island event was caused by control room operators insisting they were correct, and ignoring what their gauges and readouts were telling them was right. There was no mechanical failure or any fault to the nuclear reactor design, it was 100% human error. And also showed us how safe a nuclear reactor actually is, even when humans try their best to screw it up.
^^^
This :aok
Media hype/misinformation notwithstanding (I am not an expert on nuclear power, either) I don't think anyone could have really "planned" for what happened in Japan. It appears that there were redundant, backup systems in-place, that all got wiped out at one time by the different catastrophes brought on by the earthquake/tsunami, and resultant frequent and strong aftershocks. From what I have gleaned so far, it seems like it was one of those "perfect storm" scenarios.
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I certainly hope no one is saying Japan did not build the reactors correctly.
There is one truth I learned at an early age. If man can build it, mother nature can take it down.
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I certainly hope no one is saying Japan did not build the reactors correctly.
There is one truth I learned at an early age. If man can build it, mother nature can take it down.
If there is one axiom that can be relied on 100%, this is it. :aok
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I thought this was a good quick explanation of what is happening: http://wimp.com/problemexplained/
I have to agree this was a "perfect storm" of events; I don't think it should be ignored that the safety features have still managed to at least delay any catastrophic event allowing evacuations in the area. No doubt some smarter people than I will be working on more safety features with this event in mind.
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I certainly hope no one is saying Japan did not build the reactors correctly.
There is one truth I learned at an early age. If man can build it, mother nature can take it down.
Very true. I'm only concerned though that someone knew this plant was outdated and needed a renovation, it was scheduled to go offline and stop operations, per its designed specs, this february, but recieved a 10-year extension. Given the events, I'm stongly in favor of those who knew the plants limits when they built and designed it over those who operate and run it (those using it to generate a profit).
There are some triumphs though not to be taken lightly, such that this plant had _three_ live-hot active vessels that successfuly disengaged and shut down (automaticaly too, if reports are accurate, which is another really good thing for the industry. another good thing is that this plant and it's design is about as old and outdated as you can get in a modern country, so if the media was spinning this in another direction we could be all patting ourselves on the back at how far the technology and science has come. knock on wood, this won't be near as bad as chernoble and three-mile in the end, and it wasn't even man-made.), and we can only dream of the nightmare that it would of been to deal with if all three they went into total meltdown stuck with the switch in the "on" position.
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if they were all shutdown as planned in Feb I doubt the outcome would have been that much different, possibly alot worse. the storage pools looks like the biggest danger to me, which would all have been packed with fuel. afaik 5 & 6s pools are most densely packed (and packed tighter than spec ...) due to them being offline.
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if they were all shutdown as planned in Feb I doubt the outcome would have been that much different, possibly alot worse. the storage pools looks like the biggest danger to me, which would all have been packed with fuel. afaik 5 & 6s pools are most densely packed (and packed tighter than spec ...) due to them being offline.
To the best of my understanding:
1) You are correct in that there would undoubtedly still of been a large amount if not all of the nuclear fuel and material still on-site as they would of just begun decomissioning that would still need to be kept stabalized. However, real rough comparison here, lets look at a hot-live reactor that's reacting and generating much like a hot-running automotive engine. When it's on and running, it's really generating heat that needs to be disipated rapidly by the cooling system. However, unlike an automotive engine - where lets say you get a flat tire or something that requires you to suddenly stop your operation, you can pull off the road and turn off the engine and while off/inactive the engine doesnt need the assisted cooling further because, while warm, it is no longer generating heat and is in a gradual state of cooling - when the switch gets turned from on to off on a nuclear reactor it still has a TON of heat built up in it ontop of still generating some additional gradual heat. It still needs to be cooled with assistance at full power until it reaches a more stable tempurature and you're only needing to cool the more passive heat being generated while it's off. Normaly this is a process that doesn't take long, but at this plant when the quake hit, the three cores that were active shut down (while still really hot), and the coolant imediatley stopped being circulated.
2) The design of this plants is, I believe, of a taller stacked variety (an older GE design), with the spent rods being stored above, in a second-level, with the active reactor vessel and unspent fuel rods in the same "pool" of water/coolant stored in the lower level. This would explain why authorities have said that the main vessels themselves, with the worse of the nuclear material, are well safe (and submerged) in the coldest and deepest parts of these pools/tanks... the spent nuclear material though, which still has some strong radioactivity and is stored near the surface of these pools/tanks, is what the workers are having to fight to keep submerged, stable and cool (no water circulation, heat goes up and stays up from the vessels that were raging hot but have been gradualy cooling now).
It's a case where if they weren't active at the time, they would still have a warm pot of water, generating its own heat, to deal with managing and circulating some cool water into to keep stable. Instead they were active, so at the time of the quake, the pot of water was boiling-hot (with cool water being circulated into it and the hottest water being taken out to prevent it from boiling over) and the bottom that was sitting directly on the burner was glowing molten-red hot, and now the burner is turned off, but the bottom of the pot is still so hot it's generating heat, but now you have no water circulation so pressure is building, water is boiling away from the surface, and no fresh stuff is comming in to replace the water being boiled off or help reduce the temperature and pressures that are building.
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***NEWS FLASH***
MBailey was seen entering the the woods around Coopersburg Pa with what could only be described as a large carving knife, a bag of potatoes and a smile. When confronted about it he says " I just want to let the world know of my love for CAPS and .....is that thing on???" :bhead
He ran inside again and wasn't seen exiting his house. More at 7.
LawnDart
:lol :aok
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i hope i dont sound insensitive for saying this, but..
i view the tsunami&earthquake as mother nature reminding us that she's still in charge of this planet, not us.
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i view the tsunami&earthquake as mother nature reminding us that she's still in charge of this planet, not us.
And your point is...?
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And your point is...?
no point, just stating my opinion on the matter, like everyone else.
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no point, just stating my opinion on the matter, like everyone else.
So what's your opinion then, that mother nature is in charge? Oh ok.
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So what's your opinion then, that mother nature is in charge? Oh ok.
to avoid getting into a pointless argument with you, im just going to say yea. thats my opinion. and leave it at that.
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I certainly hope no one is saying Japan did not build the reactors correctly.
There is one truth I learned at an early age. If man can build it, mother nature can take it down.
Or teenagers.... :bhead
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to avoid getting into a pointless argument with you, im just going to say yea. thats my opinion. and leave it at that.
Lol, what argument? You said that mother nature is in charge and I was seeing if you could expand upon it and how that relates to man's need versus risk for nuclear power but you stopped short of a complete thought on the subject matter.
Btw I agree with you that mother nature is in charge in the long run.
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I didnt take it as trying to be funny. If I lived there Id probably use a geiger counter if I had one. Its radiation on the loose. Nothing wrong in being concerned.
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Skuzzy
Onagawa power plant was nearer the epicenter and someone I talk to on another forum (nasaspaceflight) with a relative on site at the time says the waves there were at least as big as at Fukushima. Onagawa is running "fine" right now.
Fukushima really was a perfect storm.
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Onagawa is shutdown.
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Really.. Can you say why/since when?
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I'd be very leary of buying anything from Japan in the months to come, electronic or other...without a gieger counter to check its level after it arrives.
:noid :noid :noid :noid
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.. They did shut down Onagawa after that turbine fire, according to wikipedia. Guess you really have to check every single detail yourself rather than take anyone's word for it.
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Numbers 1 and 3 shut down automatically after quake, and #2 has been off line since November 2010. There was a small fire reported after the quake, but it was determined to be smoke from one of the diesel backup generators.
Link (http://www.tohoku-epco.co.jp/electr/genshi/onagawa/hd.html) The 0.0 in the boxes is the power output from each reactor.
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I'd be very leary of buying anything from Japan in the months to come, electronic or other...without a gieger counter to check its level after it arrives.
:noid :noid :noid :noid
That looks about right - four tin foil hats.
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That looks about right - four tin foil hats.
Staying in theme with the original topic post. :rock
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Most threads on any bulletin board degrade quickly. This one actually got smarter. :uhoh
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I haven't heard much about the reactors from the US mainstream media for the last few days. I assume that means that the situation is improving and they don't have enough ammo to shell out more sensationalized dramatic crap.
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I haven't heard much about the reactors from the US mainstream media for the last few days. I assume that means that the situation is improving and they don't have enough ammo to shell out more sensationalized dramatic crap.
For you :aok
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/images.jpg)
"News" really isn't anymore...
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I haven't heard much about the reactors from the US mainstream media for the last few days. I assume that means that the situation is improving and they don't have enough ammo to shell out more sensationalized dramatic crap.
18,000 or more missing, death toll will be over 10,000, continued radiation leaks, food sources being contaminated.
Continual aftershocks. What exactly is being sensationalized? If anything, I would be concerned about the actual truth vs.
the information that's put out by a Utility company and a Government well known to downplay problems to save face.
<S> Oz
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18,000 or more missing, death toll will be over 10,000, continued radiation leaks, food sources being contaminated.
Continual aftershocks. What exactly is being sensationalized? If anything, I would be concerned about the actual truth vs.
the information that's put out by a Utility company and a Government well known to downplay problems to save face.
<S> Oz
I was talking about the nuclear side of things, since this is a nuclear thread. "radiation leak" is enough to scare the bejesus out of the average person though.
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18,000 or more missing, death toll will be over 10,000, continued radiation leaks, food sources being contaminated.
Continual aftershocks. What exactly is being sensationalized?
What is the ratio of casualties caused by nuclear to those by natural damage, or to those by any/every other manmade infrastructure (eg chemical plants)?
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I haven't heard much about the reactors from the US mainstream media for the last few days. I assume that means that the situation is improving and they don't have enough ammo to shell out more sensationalized dramatic crap.
Gee, ya thunk? :rolleyes:
The yuppies in this community who eat straight out of the media's hand are a hoot.
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I didnt take it as trying to be funny. If I lived there Id probably use a geiger counter if I had one. Its radiation on the loose. Nothing wrong in being concerned.
Learn about the beast before running off into the woods trying to hide from it sometime.
18,000 or more missing, death toll will be over 10,000, continued radiation leaks, food sources being contaminated.
Continual aftershocks. What exactly is being sensationalized? If anything, I would be concerned about the actual truth vs.
the information that's put out by a Utility company and a Government well known to downplay problems to save face.
<S> Oz
Yes, we know there has been steady radiation leaking since the plants and their protective shieldings got slammed by a magnitude 9.0 earthquake.... a _9_._0_. This has been nothing new or further developing since they got slammed, old news and nobody is glowing green and no hospitals have reported any deaths or sever injuries from radiation (.sarcasm - ZOMG, the breach is so severe and uncontrollable, there's no way it can be contained and repaired because it's obviously a situation raging beyond any hope or reality of control, just like Chernoble and 3-mile, the reactor vessels have been stuck in the engaged position and can't be turned off, the radioactive shielding has all collapsed or disintegrated, there is a fire raging so hot and violently that all can see it miles away and we're sitting here watching all the paint peel off the cars in the plant's parking lot! OH THE HUMANITY, WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE FROM TEH UNCONTROLLED NUCLEAR SITUATION LIKE THE WHOLE WORLD DID BEFORE WITH 3-MILE AND CHERNOBLE, quick buy your iodine tablets and 50-grand baby shields, sell your home and give up your life, family and friends on the US West Coast. .endsarcasm).
OZ, you probably haven't ever experienced an earthquake in your life and would soil your pants the first time you felt a 3.5, so try to understand what Japan just went through and came out of relatively unscathed after being slammed. And I suspect given the _estimates_ and continued trends coming out (c'mon OZ, I thought you would of caught the declining trend a lot more quickly than those of us preferring not to listen to the oversensationalized media), the death toll will likely be between 7-8,000 in the final, which is nothing short of a miracle and a testament to modern engineering and safety standards given what they just went through.
OK, enough singling you out, I really have nothing against you. It's is a good thing to be concerned with one's own health and survival, I just wish the media was being more productive towards that means than, how I've been viewing them during this situation, counterproductive.
Also, and I'm quite thankful about it, Japan's and the US's safety levels for radiation in food is set quite below the usual unsafe levels for humans to digest. Certain foods can turn up over-radioactive by those agencies standards naturally by a quirk, they're set that high. No surprise with even a minute radiation leak, with pictures showing this nuclear plant surrounded by agriculture, that some of the country's produce is turning up beyond the safety standards. I would compare those levels discovered though first against those that are safe for human consumption and against the naturally occurring radiation flukes that already occur in various crops (wouldn't surprise me if the nuclear plants had nothing to do with it, natural radiation is not common in agriculture but it's not unheard of, and again even then the levels are typically safe for typical human consumption but above a government agencies acceptable limit). But to each their own, I'm sure the media has blamed the entire decline in agricultural production on the nuclear radiation already, completely disregarding the miles and miles on farms and farmer's homes that got slammed by the tsunami and quake directly. I'd be more concerned about looking for beach sand, mud or any lingering salty taste on the produce I buy from Japan in the immediate future than sticking it under a geiger meter.
And I've been harping about questioning the integrity of utility company/operator of that _outdated_ nuclear plant since this thing started. It should not of had any operational production going on past the date they originally set it to be decommissioned/renovated.
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That's one thing you don't get in "actual truth vs. utility and government well known to downplay". You (general you, e.g. avg naive layman) get the news telling you about a Japanese journalist who drives around the area surveying radioactivity, noting how the mSv reading is three times above the "standard authorized dose". And this number has no scale or context given to it whatsoever other than that it's three times the "standard" dose. What's the take away for someone who doesn't know anything else?
That kind of "actual truth" reporting is just a sorry excuse for public service.
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Babs, I'm glad you know what I've done and not in my life.
And I'm thankful we have a Nuclear Scientist/Physicist such as yourself here
to keep thumping how much you know and how stupid others are.
Maybe you should be giving your services to the Tokyo Electric Co. :aok
<S> Oz
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18,000 or more missing, death toll will be over 10,000, continued radiation leaks, food sources being contaminated.
Continual aftershocks. What exactly is being sensationalized? If anything, I would be concerned about the actual truth vs.
the information that's put out by a Utility company and a Government well known to downplay problems to save face.
<S> Oz
The severity of the radiation is being sensationalized.
You'd have to drink 58,000 glasses of milk before you'd have a 4% higher risk of cancer. You'd be 160 years old by then, plus, the half life of the I-131 is eight days, so you'd have to keep pumping radiation out on purpose for 160 years to keep that contamination going. If 1 in 100 people get cancer, then 1.04 people will get cancer after 160 years of drinking that milk, which you can't get anyway since it's not being distributed. That's why things are being tested.
What information do you think is not true? Do you have some examples?
(I just had another pretty strong quake shake my house after I posted this. I promise they're not underplaying the aftershocks. ;))
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I know, I apologize if I singled you out, the comment was far-fetched and wasn't trying to single out or target you at all, but make no mistake I think the media is a bunch of nupties and treat their viewing audience like an even lower form of life, inciting fear and panic in people when they likely have a million other things to worry about first. But you are on the East Coast so I figure it's a likely assumption about the earthquakes, much like I'm sure you've seen more impressive and brilliant sunrises come over your eastern horizon in this month than I've seen in my entire lifetime poke through the dry dusty mountains and looming smog that dominates my eastern horizon here in LA.
And I think it's an old stipulation from past generations that nuclear science is too dificult for most people and the general public to understand and educate themselves on, sure it might be incredibly boring to some (like most science) but I don't think I know of anyone I would describe as incapable of grasping the basic concepts if put to the task, after all most PC users today aren't programers or electronic engineers, but plenty of us can build and maintain our own computer rigs. Now, (advanced) Nuclear Physics and that Jazz you might as well throw me out the window for right now, I suck at formulas and advanced physics, usually I get lost easily somewhere after the "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" part.
The severity of the radiation is being sensationalized.
You'd have to drink 58,000 glasses of milk before you'd have a 4% higher risk of cancer. You'd be 160 years old by then, plus, the half life of the I-131 is eight days, so you'd have to keep pumping radiation out on purpose for 160 years to keep that contamination going. If 1 in 100 people get cancer, then 1.04 people will get cancer after 160 years of drinking that milk, which you can't get anyway since it's not being distributed. That's why things are being tested.
What information do you think is not true? Do you have some examples?
(I just had another pretty strong quake shake my house after I posted this. I promise they're not underplaying the aftershocks. ;))
Good luck Rolex, hope things settle down enough for some uninterupted sleep soon. Try to not get stuck in the middle of Home Depot during the strongest aftershock of them all, like I did with the Northridge (it was months after the quake too), I still really don't like going to major high-shelve warehouse type stores since, recently after a quake or not.
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That's one thing you don't get in "actual truth vs. utility and government well known to downplay". You (general you, e.g. avg naive layman) get the news telling you about a Japanese journalist who drives around the area surveying radioactivity, noting how the mSv reading is three times above the "standard authorized dose". And this number has no scale or context given to it whatsoever other than that it's three times the "standard" dose. What's the take away for someone who doesn't know anything else?
That kind of "actual truth" reporting is just a sorry excuse for public service.
Yeah, they're having a field day with the "Hundreds of times higher than normal" types of comments. Well wtf is "Normal"? Oh that's right, you have to do additional research to discover that "normal" is actually so far below safe levels it's not even funny. They should be comparing the amount of radiation to safe levels as determined by a particular agency, whether that be EPA or the Japanese equivalent. That would make sense, give the most information, but the least amount of "ZOMG RADIATION!!! GET RID OF ALL NUKE PLANTS NOW, WE NEED SOLAR AND WINDDDDDD". So why would a news organization whose job is to inform the public report something that actually makes sense? Oh yeah that's right, because that's not their job. Their job is to make money and push their political agenda.
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Man, just imagine yesterday it wasn't safe for babies to drink tap water in Tokyo.
Now today they are saying the levels are safe again :rolleyes:
Wow, in only 1 day it's safe again.
My heart goes out to the people, and to the children.
<S> Oz
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:noid
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I hope these are the last gasps from the media before it goes down-hill for them and they actually have to get in there and start reporting on the real news and develpoments going on.
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Oh, that's a pipe dream there Babs. Today it's reported that a core might be damaged and maybe leaking
high amounts of radiation. One of the Japanese Scientist was saying that " Elements are created during
fusion, that are not found naturally" :rolleyes: duh
"And we cannot, at this time determine how much radiation is currently being released into the atmosphere,
until things are more stable at number 3".
Also, the recommended evac zone of course is expanded.
<S> Oz
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" Elements are created during fusion, that are not found naturally" :rolleyes: duh<S> Oz
I read they found Ce-144 and this could indicate a Core Meltdown,
btw. Ce-144 has a half-life of aprox 284 days, ...it dont look better/good.
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Indeed, some news coming out today in the media is concerning but at least it's more concrete than "I think I see something glowing green in the distance next to the plant, back to you in the studio Bob".
I don't think there was a meltdown though or it got anywhere close to an uncontollable state of fission, I think that situation was safely avoided (and hard worked for).
It does sound like from the reports though the reactor vessel in unit #3 though may of been compromised by one cuncusions from one of the explosions that occured within the outer containment shell or by the earthquake/tsunami itself. There is still a very good chance though that the vessel housing the reactor wasn't compromised but that contamination is/did leak from within the reactor vessel (this was one of the running reactors when the quake hit, and with it being hot and cranking-away (assuming all or most rods engaged) I can't imagine the first seismic shock from a 9.0, before the reactor automaticly shut down and disengaged, had a good impact to the vessel or rods inside it. Keeping fingers crossed that the vessel is intact and that maybe just some fuel rods got damaged (but are still relatively safely held within the sealed vessel), likely contaminating coolant that then leaked out of the damaged and failing cooling systems.
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:confused:
That's amazing. Everything you said is wrong. It's 100 on the Krusty scale.