Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Tupac on March 14, 2011, 04:38:24 PM
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My family is currently looking at purchasing a Cessna 172 with a continental O-300 in it. One of my friends who is an A&P (And also very opinionated) doesnt like them at all. I was curious what some of you thought, as I have read good things about them online.
Also, the engine in question has 100 hours on it after a total overhaul (1800 TBO)
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My family is currently looking at purchasing a Cessna 172 with a continental O-300 in it. One of my friends who is an A&P (And also very opinionated) doesnt like them at all. I was curious what some of you thought, as I have read good things about them online.
Also, the engine in question has 100 hours on it after a total overhaul (1800 TBO)
I can onlhy give my opinion from flying them.....i like the 172 a lot. it's not the fastest thing out there...but it's reliable, easy to fly, and seems fairly reasonable to maintain.
i thought 172's had o-360's? what year is it? what model? what kind of equip.?
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I'm not an A&P but the 300 is smoother than the 320 and if you lose a cylander you have a better chance of making it to an airstrip but when it comes time for an overhaul, is more expensive due to the 6 cyl rather than the 4. The 320 has a touch better accelleration, and a lower fuel burn rate but in my opinion that's not enough to tip the scales either way.
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I can onlhy give my opinion from flying them.....i like the 172 a lot. it's not the fastest thing out there...but it's reliable, easy to fly, and seems fairly reasonable to maintain.
i thought 172's had o-360's? what year is it? what model? what kind of equip.?
Its a 1963 172, Ill copy & paste the ad from barnstormers, along with some pictures
BEST DEAL EVER! • incredible books, incredible plane, late model engine with new style starter, 100 hrs on engine, 6 new clys, crank, mags, plugs, oil filter, windshield, tires, dg, vaccum pump, harness belts, annual done April 2011, $32k in receipts 2/ 2010, 3900 tt. No hail damage, one owner 25 years(hangered) , will deliver. 775 827 2786 PRORATED 1800tbo ENGINE WARRANTY TO 2013. Will partner in Reno. Nobody spends $32k in upgrades and then sells, bought for a doctor's wife to get license then upgraded. I bought open cockpit and rarely fly.1963
(http://barnstormers.com/tmp_images/84/b6/.watermarked_9642bd950a9447f8f0e0db8845f372e3.jpg)
(http://barnstormers.com/tmp_images/df/b1/.watermarked_17301fdefec7c0303957552ac8c039e6.jpg)
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I'm not an A&P but the 300 is smoother than the 320 and if you lose a cylander you have a better chance of making it to an airstrip but when it comes time for an overhaul, is more expensive due to the 6 cyl rather than the 4. The 320 has a touch better accelleration, and a lower fuel burn rate but in my opinion that's not enough to tip the scales either way.
aahh......that's where i got messed up. this must be an older one with a 6 cylinder?
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My dad has talked to him on the phone, he is willing to fly it from reno to new braunfels for $700, and if we dont like it, he will fly it back.
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and all it needs to get certified for IFR is a new glideslope
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aahh......that's where i got messed up. this must be an older one with a 6 cylinder?
Yeah, the newer ones are a bit heavier so they went to the 360.
EDIT: Looks really nice for an older 172. Sweet paint job too. I've been looking around for awhile, and have been amazed at the sad state of some of the older birds. Have you seen the interior yet?
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(http://barnstormers.com/tmp_images/c9/97/.watermarked_c328663b2c9fb619baf43fa61f3f7d34.jpg)
(http://barnstormers.com/tmp_images/59/93/.watermarked_ff79e1a2ce9ea04b5089b164ce0f01c6.jpg)
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(http://barnstormers.com/tmp_images/c9/97/.watermarked_c328663b2c9fb619baf43fa61f3f7d34.jpg)
(http://barnstormers.com/tmp_images/59/93/.watermarked_ff79e1a2ce9ea04b5089b164ce0f01c6.jpg)
Sweet! I like how they stuck with the blue scheme. Ya gotta slap a nice moving map GPS in there for good measure (after the glideslope of course).
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Sweet! I like how they stuck with the blue scheme. Ya gotta slap a nice moving map GPS in there for good measure (after the glideslope of course).
Yep, we're looking at a garmin 396
edit: It seems like a really solid airplane, The owner was really upfront about its history (It overshot a runway and plowed through a fence in 1976, with minor damage) and seems like a pretty honest guy
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Yeah, the newer ones are a bit heavier so they went to the 360.
EDIT: Looks really nice for an older 172. Sweet paint job too. I've been looking around for awhile, and have been amazed at the sad state of some of the older birds. Have you seen the interior yet?
yea.....my friend that owns the helicopter flight school has a 62 172 with the 6 cyl in it. manual flaps. kinda fun to fly, but i like the feel of the newer ones better.
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Very low time bird. Have it fogged internally with Corrosion X or ACF-50. Run the motor with the oil additive Camguard. AVOID Semi-synthetic oils like Aeroshell 15W50 and Exxon Elite. Phillips XC20W50 with Camguard if you are in a multi temperature environment - otherwise straight Aeroshell 100W (not PLUS) with Camguard added.
Second - brush up on your maintenance. http://www.savvymx.com/index.php/resources/webinar (http://www.savvymx.com/index.php/resources/webinar)
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Coming from someone who is ignorant of all this..
why in the world would you want to buy something from 1963 and go several thousand feet in the air in it? O.o
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Coming from someone who is ignorant of all this..
why in the world would you want to buy something from 1963 and go several thousand feet in the air in it? O.o
(http://eakky.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/2012-poster-6.jpg?w=500&h=743)
:noid
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In that case Tupac, would you rather have something with floats? or the ability to land on water?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGm2GapV3fs&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGm2GapV3fs&feature=related) ICON A5 gentlemen, is what I'm after (pipedream less I win the lottery alas!!)
Wurzel
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In that case Tupac, would you rather have something with floats? or the ability to land on water?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGm2GapV3fs&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGm2GapV3fs&feature=related) ICON A5 gentlemen, is what I'm after (pipedream less I win the lottery alas!!)
Wurzel
The A-5 is nothing less than pure awesome. Can you imagine pulling up to a beach in one??? You'd have to worry about fouling your prop with all the bikini tops that would be flying at ya!
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He he he, can't see me surviving that landing without a black eye - wife would be sat next to me ;) :D
And yes, A5 looks a cool little plane (wife gave me permission to buy one should I ever be able to afford it - fingers crossed :lol)
Wurzel
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In that case Tupac, would you rather have something with floats? or the ability to land on water?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGm2GapV3fs&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGm2GapV3fs&feature=related) ICON A5 gentlemen, is what I'm after (pipedream less I win the lottery alas!!)
Wurzel
That is one sexy airplane
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Coming from someone who is ignorant of all this..
why in the world would you want to buy something from 1963 and go several thousand feet in the air in it? O.o
2 words
Air-head
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2 words
Air-head
What does that mean?
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Yep, we're looking at a garmin 396
edit: It seems like a really solid airplane, The owner was really upfront about its history (It overshot a runway and plowed through a fence in 1976, with minor damage) and seems like a pretty honest guy
you can go to the ntsb's website, and search that tail number. any accidents it had should show up.
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Coming from someone who is ignorant of all this..
why in the world would you want to buy something from 1963 and go several thousand feet in the air in it? O.o
i shall answer your question with a question.
would you pass up the opportunity to go up in a b-17? b-24? p-51?
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you can go to the ntsb's website, and search that tail number. any accidents it had should show up.
I did that last night, and the owner was telling the truth with just 1 overshoot of the runway a long time ago, In compton california of all places.
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I did that last night, and the owner was telling the truth with just 1 overshoot of the runway a long time ago, In compton california of all places.
that;s cool.
years ago, i was looking at a 152 commuter. had the long range tanks, fresh paint, etc.............guy said he had all the logs from day 1. it was at an airport not 10 miles from home, so i made an appointment to go look at it. took a friend as my "objective" opinion.
that night, i searched the tail number there. 2 mishaps. one in fairfield nj, and another in north jersey. one was an off field landing(wanna guess why?) and the other one it was flipped.
these both happened in the late 70's, so the plane's been flying since then. my problem? when we asked if it had any accidents or incidents, he said no. when told about the ntsb reports, he said he must not have them in the logs. the logs that he had previously stated that he had all of. that's 2 strikes...as in he lied 2x.
final strike was that he didn't want to let either of us(we're both licensed) fly it..with him in there of course. strike 3. buh by!
last i saw, that airplane is still there...........
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How does he ever expect to sell it?
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He might not want to. More than one wife out there wants hubby to sell the airplane. Some try less hard than others.
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My dads calling him tomorrow to negotiate a price.
EXCITEMENT!
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Coming from someone who is ignorant of all this..
why in the world would you want to buy something from 1963 and go several thousand feet in the air in it? O.o
Well seeing as how certified aircraft technology hasn't change much since the 1940's, there is really little difference between a 1963 Cessna and a 2011 Cessna. Just little things like smaller lighter starters, alternators instead of generators, more comfortable seats, and updated avionics are the only real difference.
I read a paper once where somebody took a 2007 Cessna 172 and looked up all the patents for all the technology on it. As I recall the only patent newer then the 1950's was for the seat rails, which was 1990 sumthin'. Think about it, air-cooled reciprocating engines go back to the 1900's. Magnetos and lead acid batteries both go back to the 1860's. Newer planes might have some newer avionics tech in them ala Garmin G1000, but the basic airframe and powerplant technology is at least 80 years old.
Because all the old technology has proven to be so rock solid reliable, the FAA drags their feet for years, and years on certifying any new technology, all the exciting stuff is happening in the experimental field.
By the way, I'm only a "P" so far, working on my "A" now.
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He might not want to. More than one wife out there wants hubby to sell the airplane. Some try less hard than others.
if you're referencing the 152 i mentioned......i hadn't even thought of that. could well be.
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Well seeing as how certified aircraft technology hasn't change much since the 1940's, there is really little difference between a 1963 Cessna and a 2011 Cessna. Just little things like smaller lighter starters, alternators instead of generators, more comfortable seats, and updated avionics are the only real difference.
I read a paper once where somebody took a 2007 Cessna 172 and looked up all the patents for all the technology on it. As I recall the only patent newer then the 1950's was for the seat rails, which was 1990 sumthin'. Think about it, air-cooled reciprocating engines go back to the 1900's. Magnetos and lead acid batteries both go back to the 1860's. Newer planes might have some newer avionics tech in them ala Garmin G1000, but the basic airframe and powerplant technology is at least 80 years old.
Because all the old technology has proven to be so rock solid reliable, the FAA drags their feet for years, and years on certifying any new technology, all the exciting stuff is happening in the experimental field.
By the way, I'm only a "P" so far, working on my "A" now.
i've flown a 62 172, a 64 172, several mid 70's 172's, a couple mid 80's 172's, and a 2k's 172sp. there are significant differences between the 60s ones, and the newer ones.
also, you realize an 07 172 is fuel injected, right?
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i've flown a 62 172, a 64 172, several mid 70's 172's, a couple mid 80's 172's, and a 2k's 172sp. there are significant differences between the 60s ones, and the newer ones.
also, you realize an 07 172 is fuel injected, right?
Such as?
I mean I know the interiors are more comfortable, and the avionics are now electronic instead of vacuum. They've installed bigger engines for better performance, and like I mentioned lighter starters, and alternators instead of heavy generators.
But what has changed in the basic airframe or powerplant technology since the 60's? Besides some creature comforts, and a bit more power, what's the difference?
I can think of nothing.
also, you realize an 07 172 is fuel injected, right?
Yup, fuel injection on aircraft engines whether TCM or Lycoming is 1940's technology (FW-190 or ME-109 anyone) and it's been pretty common in GA since the late 60's. It is really just a refinement of pressure carburetor technology, it is nothing at all like the modern EFI on cars, and not nearly as efficient.
EDIT: I did think of one powerplant tech advancement. FADEC. but you won't find that on very many GA planes.
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Another quick question, how much would a new glideslope cost with installation?
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Coming from someone who is ignorant of all this..
why in the world would you want to buy something from 1963 and go several thousand feet in the air in it? O.o
well lets see...
1964 172 http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/CESSNA-172-SKYHAWK/1964-CESSNA-172-SKYHAWK/1189191.htm? ~28,000
2011 172SP http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/CESSNA-172S-SKYHAWK-SP/2011-CESSNA-172S-SKYHAWK-SP/1171758.htm? ~310,000
see the difference?
Im sure anyone would want a newer plane, but not everyone has the money for it. Hell, i would just like to have a plane, dont care what its age is.
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Another quick question, how much would a new glideslope cost with installation?
Can't you get a quote from a local FBO? Would be a lot more accurate then a WAG from some loser like me on the interwebs.
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Can't you get a quote from a local FBO? Would be a lot more accurate then a WAG from some loser like me on the interwebs.
I'm gonna call the local aero service tomorrow. I just want to know what tonexpect.
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Back on topic... ... as for the O-300 I've never heard of any inherent problems with it, and 6 cylinders would be smoother running then 4.
It's kind of like some people just like Continental and some like Lycoming, they both proven to be dead-nuts reliable though. Only reason I can see not to get the 300 it is if you want more power. :D
PS: looks like a sweet plane, hope you get it.
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in addition to what saggs said..........stop jumping too far ahead. get the plane first. make the deal.....fly and enjoy it a bit....then worry about the upgrades. :aok
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I'm told that to install a glideslope I also need to replace the VOR head and NAVCOM?
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Get a mechanic you trust to do a very thorough prebuy inspection. Specifically, look for corrosion in the wings and in the tail.
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2 words
Air-head
:rofl :aok
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Get a mechanic you trust to do a very thorough prebuy inspection. Specifically, look for corrosion in the wings and in the tail.
Might now be a bad idea to get the whole thing Corrosion X'ed while he's got all the inspection panels off too.
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Coming from someone who is ignorant of all this..
why in the world would you want to buy something from 1963 and go several thousand feet in the air in it? O.o
Lol!
It's a trade-off with affordability. I ended up buying a 1977 Aztec (they call them Aztrucks up in Alaska because of their usefull load, and some even have a Nomad float conversion) and am absolutely in love with it. Flies forever, safely, six passengers + luggage, and is truly the most fun you can have with your clothes on! :banana:
(http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/new%20site2/images9/5.jpg)
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i've got a fri3end that flies a bonanza....he's partners with his business partner in that one. he owns a super decathalon on his own.....loves em both. he tends to fly the bonanza almost like it's a t-34 sometimes....... :devil
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Lol!
It's a trade-off with affordability. I ended up buying a 1977 Aztec (they call them Aztrucks up in Alaska because of their usefull load, and some even have a Nomad float conversion) and am absolutely in love with it. Flies forever, safely, six passengers + luggage, and is truly the most fun you can have with your clothes on! :banana:
(http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/new%20site2/images9/5.jpg)
I wouldn't every fly that thing!!
... With my clothes on :devil
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well lets see...
1964 172 http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/CESSNA-172-SKYHAWK/1964-CESSNA-172-SKYHAWK/1189191.htm? ~28,000
2011 172SP http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/CESSNA-172S-SKYHAWK-SP/2011-CESSNA-172S-SKYHAWK-SP/1171758.htm? ~310,000
see the difference?
Im sure anyone would want a newer plane, but not everyone has the money for it. Hell, i would just like to have a plane, dont care what its age is.
Good with your hands?
I could use the help, it would go a lot faster (even more so if I stopped making crap for my jeep and brewery) Pittsburgh is not too far at ~150 mph :devil
http://mykitlog.com/VonMessa (http://mykitlog.com/VonMessa)
(oh yeah, I can put floats on it if I want) :aok
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4500 for a kx155 Navcom + glideslope, not as bad as I had thought.
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4500 for a kx155 Navcom + glideslope, not as bad as I had thought.
Wait til you have to get the ADS-B installed...
:noid
get the oil-can..
:bolt:
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I wouldn't every fly that thing!!
... With my clothes on :devil
Airplanes should never be flown fully clothed. Hard to appreciate the freedom of flight with pesky underpants and shorts.
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Plus if anything should happen, God forbid, it will make for some interesting questions from the responders. :rofl
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My family is currently looking at purchasing a Cessna 172 with a continental O-300 in it. One of my friends who is an A&P (And also very opinionated) doesnt like them at all. I was curious what some of you thought, as I have read good things about them online.
Also, the engine in question has 100 hours on it after a total overhaul (1800 TBO)
There's nothing wrong with an O300. It's essentially just an O200 like you would find on a C150 with two extra cylinders. They made a GO300 (geared opposed) to hang on the C175 and I would avoid those.
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Tomorrow I'm supposed to find out what would be a good day to get the pre-buy done, and the people who will put in the navcom say it will take around 5 days.
Dad has given the thumbs up on this plane as long as it doesn't have anything glaringly wrong with it.
Pics will be posted
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I have overhauled (complete..not just top overhaul) both Lycoming and Continental engines.
Overhaul costs for lycomings are always more cost effective than Continental. The difference is really in labour.
Tupac, before you buy find out if it was "Top Overhauled\' or "completely overhauled". There is a difference. Top overhauled engines are basically running new or overhauled cylinders. Completely overhauled engines have been split apart, all steel NDT'd, measured and re-assembled IAW the manufactures specifications.
Also, look at the overhaul or last inspection date of all engine accessories (Mags, starter, generator/alternator, fuel pump, carb or fuel servo etc.)
And lastly, actually first.....Have the aircraft run when it is cold and listen to it. If it runs a bit rough when it is cold and then seems to smooth out once it is warm it has an exhaust valve problem. Don't get snowed there..It should stable-ize out within a minute or so and idle normally. A sticky exhaust valve can eventually seize and cause push rod, lifter and camshaft damage.
just my $0.02 worth, but I have been doing this stuff for over 30 years.
cheers,
RTR
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New cylinders, and brand new (not rebuilt) mags last year with OH
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I've flown an older Cesna 172 with the 0300 in it. It was a decent bird other than a corrosion issue. I happened to like the smoothness of the 0300 and the manual flaps were not anything to be concerned about. In my opinion, as a pilot and an A&P the manual flap system is simpler. I like simple things in an airplane and most powered items introduce more complexity and things that can fail.
The flaps can be lowered or raised faster manually than with an electric motor. They will not fail if you lose all electric power in the bird. You never need to worry about the motor burning out. If there is a problem with them it will cost less to fix.
Yes the 0300 has an 1800 TBO. It's not a big deal. There are 6 cylinders so that will increase costs in doing a top or full overhaul. If treated right, the engine should last at least the entire TBO period. Continentals tend to drop compression in cylinders faster than Lycomings. That just means you will need to start keeping an eye on them about 700 to 900 hours of use. During your annual inspection the mechanic will be doing a compression check on each cylinder as part of the inspection. A pre purchase compression check should be done before you buy the bird.
A 63 bird is just fine to fly as long as it checks out properly. My old Comanche was a 59 and flew wonderfully for the decade I had her. I sold her when we started to RV full time and I still miss being able to drive up the airport and take a hop whenever I wanted to.
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Simpler the better IMO, less to break and everything costs lots in aviation.
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cc the cylinders.
Have an unbiased A&P do a compression test. Anyone who is selling an airplane should have no problem with that. And listen to it run cold and hot! Important!.
Other than that...congrats and fly safe!
Oops just saw Mavericks post...Ditto....still listen to it hot and cold and check RPM's.
cheers,
RTR
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cc the cylinders.
Have an unbiased A&P do a compression test. Anyone who is selling an airplane should have no problem with that. And listen to it run cold and hot! Important!.
Other than that...congrats and fly safe!
cheers,
RTR
We've got an A&P lined up that neither of us have met before. He has a good reputation for being thorough, and will do the pre buy for us.
Safe flying to you too buddy!
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I'd add to your list, bore scope to peak at the valve faces for any hot spots or signs of piston scuffing. Also look at the belly for excessive blowby or a pressurized crankcase.
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Sounds like you are in good hands ;)
I hope it works out great for you.
You are about to embark on a wondrous and soulful journey.
Just remember that the day you figure that you have nothing else to learn is the day to hang up the wings.
RTR
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I've flown an older Cesna 172 with the 0300 in it. It was a decent bird other than a corrosion issue. I happened to like the smoothness of the 0300 and the manual flaps were not anything to be concerned about. In my opinion, as a pilot and an A&P the manual flap system is simpler. I like simple things in an airplane and most powered items introduce more complexity and things that can fail.
The flaps can be lowered or raised faster manually than with an electric motor. They will not fail if you lose all electric power in the bird. You never need to worry about the motor burning out. If there is a problem with them it will cost less to fix.
Yes the 0300 has an 1800 TBO. It's not a big deal. There are 6 cylinders so that will increase costs in doing a top or full overhaul. If treated right, the engine should last at least the entire TBO period. Continentals tend to drop compression in cylinders faster than Lycomings. That just means you will need to start keeping an eye on them about 700 to 900 hours of use. During your annual inspection the mechanic will be doing a compression check on each cylinder as part of the inspection. A pre purchase compression check should be done before you buy the bird.
A 63 bird is just fine to fly as long as it checks out properly. My old Comanche was a 59 and flew wonderfully for the decade I had her. I sold her when we started to RV full time and I still miss being able to drive up the airport and take a hop whenever I wanted to.
i landed a 78 c-172 without flaps....thanks to an electrical system failure. it was no big deal.....thanks to the CFI i fly with. flying with bob........it's never boring, and there is ALWAYS some sort of "failure".
and i did call him up that night, when i parked the airplane, and finished writing it up./......and i thanked him for doing what he always does.
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My instructor was just like that, if something wasn't broke, he made it broke, and I had to work around it.
My instructor got offered a job by American eagle last week, so right now I'm up in the air. (no pun intended)
I drive 50 miles one way to get to the airport I fly out of, so hopefully with the plane I can either find someone locally, or fly to boerne and pick up an instructor
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Is the button above the right side yoke labeled 'panic button'? lol
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Is the button above the right side yoke labeled 'panic button'? lol
Lol, I didn't even notice that.
I hope it's just a joke
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My instructor was just like that, if something wasn't broke, he made it broke, and I had to work around it.
My instructor got offered a job by American eagle last week, so right now I'm up in the air. (no pun intended)
I drive 50 miles one way to get to the airport I fly out of, so hopefully with the plane I can either find someone locally, or fly to boerne and pick up an instructor
look around for a CFI that's a little older. try to find one that does it because he loves it.
my CFI's name is bob mccabe. he has a full time job, and teaches only because he loves it, and flying. he also has a teaching style that i absolute love. he does not teach as if you're a student. he teaches as if you're his kid. i friggin love that attitude. it works. he's the best cfi i've met.....and as far as i'm concerned, he's saved my bacon(referencing the electrical failure. it was at night....and i had a few weeks later suffered a partial engine failure on take off.) on neither occasion did i do anything except fly the plane, and because of his training, i didn't damage the aircraft, or injure/kill myself.
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The one I'm looking at right now is named Tom Adams, he is in his 60s and is the chief instructor out at boerne stage.
Still looking around though.
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look around for a CFI that's a little older. try to find one that does it because he loves it.
Who says you need to be the former to have the latter? :old:
I'd really like to be a DPE however the ones out of the local FSDOs aren't busy performing half (or less) the number of checks they did even 2-3 years ago. Tell your friends to learn to fly.
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Funny story... My instructor had a slight case of the flu the day we did stall/spin training. We made an unplanned landing at a small airstrip (Oskaloosa, IA)... He opened the door and puked. His next words were "Ok, let's head back.". That dude was cool as a cucumber. I'll never forget that one.
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Who says you need to be the former to have the latter? :old:
I'd really like to be a DPE however the ones out of the local FSDOs aren't busy performing half (or less) the number of checks they did even 2-3 years ago. Tell your friends to learn to fly.
there was no insult intended to anyone on my former statement.
personal experience is why i said that.
my first instructor was a good guy......mid 40's, loved flying......but he taught like one of those shcool teachers that had trouble keeping their students awake. i did like the guy though.
after he moved on to another job, i went through 3 cfi's in their 20's. all of them were only there putting in time till they got another job.
i flew with one guy........he looks like an old hippy, and i friggin LOVED flying with this guy. only problem was that the way his voice came through the headset gave me headaches.
then i met bob.......and it seemed as i suddenly started learning so much more than i had for the previous years.
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Cap, off topic.
I had an instructor like that when I was getting my PPL. She is no longer with us as she succumbed to vertigo in a night flight IFR situation in a storm. Vertical into the ground. Now she flies with the angels.
When I was doing my night dual she saw I was spending a bit too much time with my head on the gauges in the pattern. While half way through downwind in the traumahawk she turned off the dash lights and told me to fly the airplane not just watch the dials and concentrate on the numbers. It was the best landing of the night. Some time later I heeded her advice when I lost pitot tube input on a rental Cessna at take off. Airspeed went to 0 while I was headed down the runway at lift off on a cross country home. It was interesting but the plane "told" me everything I needed to know through the seat cushion.
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Cap, off topic.
I had an instructor like that when I was getting my PPL. She is no longer with us as she succumbed to vertigo in a night flight IFR situation in a storm. Vertical into the ground. Now she flies with the angels.
When I was doing my night dual she saw I was spending a bit too much time with my head on the gauges in the pattern. While half way through downwind in the traumahawk she turned off the dash lights and told me to fly the airplane not just watch the dials and concentrate on the numbers. It was the best landing of the night. Some time later I heeded her advice when I lost pitot tube input on a rental Cessna at take off. Airspeed went to 0 while I was headed down the runway at lift off on a cross country home. It was interesting but the plane "told" me everything I needed to know through the seat cushion.
There was just an article in Sport Aviation entitled "Flying by the seat of your pants" describing a lot of what you are saying.
It was a really informative article that made a lot of sense :aok
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I had to make an "emergency landing" when I was in the pattern a couple days ago. The taco bell hit me like a sledgehammer. Thankfully I was on downwind, I landed the plane, stopped infront of the FBO and turned everything off, then pulled out the parking brake and ran inside.
It was a photo finish.
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I had to make an "emergency landing" when I was in the pattern a couple days ago. The taco bell hit me like a sledgehammer. Thankfully I was on downwind, I landed the plane, stopped infront of the FBO and turned everything off, then pulled out the parking brake and ran inside.
It was a photo finish.
:noid
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Today the seller in Reno called wondering if I would like to fly to NB with him in the plane. I think it would be a really cool experience, and i think I'm going to go. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
PS: if I go I promise to take lots of pictures
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Flying 10.5-11 hours with a stranger you don't know through the day into the night in an airplane with a history you know nothing about in terrain you're not familiar with?
I don't see what could go wrong.
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Flying 10.5-11 hours with a stranger you don't know through the day into the night in an airplane with a history you know nothing about in terrain you're not familiar with?
I don't see what could go wrong.
We wouldnt fly during the night. It's just an idea I'm entertaining
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If nothing else this is a good opportunity for a preflight planning exercise. Plan that flight out. Route, where you will buy fuel, where you will buy fuel if that airport ends up not having any, where you'll stay the night, where you'll go if the weather goes to hell, etc.
Sharpen your pencil and have fun with it. Let me know what you come up with.
Caution:
There's a whole lot of nothing out there. What are you packing? What aren't you packing? What can you do to improve the odds you might actually be found in the event of a forced landing? First aid training? Kit? Buy one or make your own? Do you have a handheld GPS? Radio? Extra batteries for everything? Water? Food? Water? Shelter? Water? Think about these things too.
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Flying 10.5-11 hours with a stranger you don't know through the day into the night in an airplane with a history you know nothing about in terrain you're not familiar with?
I don't see what could go wrong.
SO?
what're ya tryin to say?
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SO?
what're ya tryin to say?
I'm telling em there's a chance.
(http://dmut.squarespace.com/storage/lloydchristmas.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1230234270001)
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I'm telling em there's a chance.
(http://dmut.squarespace.com/storage/lloydchristmas.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1230234270001)
Sound more like you're volunteering. :D :bolt:
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That's it! :lol
I realize it's the motto of the PJ's but I think of it as "so that others may live."
Or at least have a chance at surviving. Themselves.
What do I know anyway? I'm happy that I still have the courage to hop in an airplane that has only one piston engine bolted on it and fly it upside down.
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Okay, so we got a call from the avionics place today, and they recommended that we install a second VOR aswell, and since I live in Texas and we have to pay sales tax, the cost of the plane hit 50k, which my dad didn't like.
Anyways, he decided to keep looking, he said "You could buy a damn 182 for that"
Fingers crossed.
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I guess I should learn never to count my chickens before they hatch.
I'm disappointed, but not discouraged. Lots of airplanes for sale out there though.
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that sucks! keep looking on ebay and Controller.com might even find something other than a cessna there that you like.
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Tupac of all the people I know who are seriously trying to buy an airplane very few actually find sellers who are really selling. There's a reason your dad is buying an airplane and not you. It's a business transaction and you have to detach as best you can emotions from the mix. It's hard and sometimes it's not possible but it's not something that happens overnight based on the recent experiences of those I know looking. Add me to that mix later this year when I'll be shopping for one of 4 types of airplanes to park in the hangar next to the work airplane. It won't happen quickly and a buddy of mine just bought the share for sale in a local Pitts S2C I'd had my eye on so that ship sailed. :furious
There are more and better airplanes out there.
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My dad has already found another one on the interwebz that he likes. He's like James woods on family guy.
"Ooh, piece of candy. Ooh, piece of candy etc etc"
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Tupac of all the people I know who are seriously trying to buy an airplane very few actually find sellers who are really selling. There's a reason your dad is buying an airplane and not you. It's a business transaction and you have to detach as best you can emotions from the mix. It's hard and sometimes it's not possible but it's not something that happens overnight based on the recent experiences of those I know looking. Add me to that mix later this year when I'll be shopping for one of 4 types of airplanes to park in the hangar next to the work airplane. It won't happen quickly and a buddy of mine just bought the share for sale in a local Pitts S2C I'd had my eye on so that ship sailed. :furious
There are more and better airplanes out there.
This is why I will hire a test pilot for the first few hours after I finish my build.
It has been said that after 5-10 years of blood sweat and tears that if something goes South, guys are too emotionally attached to all of their hard work and tend to try to save the a/c rather than get on the ground safely and , more often than not , wind up ruining the plane and themselves...
:noid
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My dad has already found another one on the interwebz that he likes. He's like James woods on family guy.
"Ooh, piece of candy. Ooh, piece of candy etc etc"
i'm not sure about this......golfer would be much better fiinformed than i on it....but i seem to recall sdome adviuce from a couple of flying friends also, from when i was looking at that 152.......
there is a cutoff point. i think that to make it worth owning the aircraft(mone-wise) you need to fly it a certain number of hours a month or year.
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Worth it? Never. Always. Both at the same time.
There are many factors that go into owning a share of or owning outright an airplane. Some you can't put a price on others you can. I had spreadsheets upon spreadsheets for break-even points for numerous aircraft types compared ro renting based on local going rates but the data is old and not as accurate. Generally I believe I remember the number being around 100 hours assuming you paid cash for the airplane and don't count the cost of money. It's been years since I even thought about the data so don't take my word for it. My budgets for maintenance were all a little padded because I wouldn't want to have to worry about regular dips into the non airplane allocations so to speak so my budget for maintaining even a C150 was higher than average but stuff breaks. The guys on a shoestring budget planning on minimum cost annuals and no AOG or unplanned items are the ones that get the most heartburn.
While money is a big factor for many sometimes mission drives things more than dollars. In my case my ideal criteria is a 200mph airplane that can take me 450 miles with 2 seats, basic aerobatic capability, doesn't stall at some ridiculusly high number for forced landing survivability and somewhere to put a bag or two makes the list pretty short when you factor in what's affordable. (For me) That would be perfect and by compromising on any of those I can have great swings in price. Then comes actually owning it and I'm still in the "saving to aquire" phase now that I can afford to operate something. I really need one of my dead uncles in Nigeria to come through with my lost millions.
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I fly 15 hours a month. Money isn't a huge issue, but my dad is picky.
Anyways the one he is looking at now has the 180hp and bushmaster conversion. I'll post some pics soon, it's IFR ready, but not certified.
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MY CFI still has his own piper. one of the things he said he does, is to put money in an account just for that plane, every time he flies it. i think he said he puts X amount towards maint, and X amount towards the "engine" fund.
his problem, is that he's spending all of his spare time teaching at the club, or flying for civil air patrol.....and rarely gets to fly his own plane anymore....but he still keeps it.
BTW..... i knew we'd get excellent advice from you. :aok
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I fly 15 hours a month. Money isn't a huge issue, but my dad is picky.
Anyways the one he is looking at now has the 180hp and bushmaster conversion. I'll post some pics soon, it's IFR ready, but not certified.
Money isn't a huge issue to many 15 year olds. When you start paying the bills yourself it will matter because not many people can afford a $25,000/yr flying habit like you've got going right now. Enjoy it while it lasts.
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BTW..... i knew we'd get excellent advice from you. :aok
I wouldn't call it excellent advice. There are quite a few people here who own and have owned their own airplanes and I'm not one of them. I've spent a lot of time managing the airplanes of others and that's where my paycheck comes from now but I've still yet to have an airplane to call my own.
I came close to pulling the trigger on an S1C last year, I had the check written for a Mustang kit that I tore up when I got an insurance quote I couldn't stomach paying once the airplane was running and now I daydream of various airplanes sitting in the hangar. I really really really want to pull up from a trip in my work airplane and see my fun airplane waiting for me in the hangar...(daydreams some more)
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Enjoy it while it lasts.
Amen to that. It looks like I'll be a freshly minted CFI by July. Already painting my "Will fly for food" sign.
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Money isn't a huge issue to many 15 year olds. When you start paying the bills yourself it will matter because not many people can afford a $25,000/yr flying habit like you've got going right now. Enjoy it while it lasts.
I meant the cost to m parents.
I'm 16, too.
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I meant the cost to m parents.
I'm 16, too.
I DIDN'T start flying till i was in my early 40's. i work my bellybutton off, make decent money....not great, but decent.....i've never been able to afford 15 hours a month.
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I'm 16, too.
So what?
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So what?
You said I was 15, 15 year olds can't fly solo but 16 year olds can.
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You said I was 15, 15 year olds can't fly solo but 16 year olds can.
but your still young enough not to know about the money side of it.
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but your still young enough not to know about the money side of it.
You're right. I still have a concept of money though, because I've worked the last 2 summers.
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You're right. I still have a concept of money though, because I've worked the last 2 summers.
do this.
take golfers suggestion, about planning the trip you were going to take. but plan how you're going to pay for this airplane.
remember insurance, tie-down(or hanger space), planned maintenance, unplanned maintenance, etc. find out how much each is going to cost, how you're going to insure you have the funds, etc.
one of the cessnas in our flight club is off-line right now, because it was/is a lease-back. the owner hasn't planned this stuff out. it failed its last anual....i can't remember for what it failed, but was told it's pretty pricey. on top of that, the engine has less than 50 hours left on it.
due to both of these issues, it's off line. the guy doesn't have the money. it's ashame too, as i liked flying that one, even though it's also the one i had the electrical problems, and a partial engine failure(misfire bad enough to inhibit her ability to climb, happened right on takeoff) in. she was a nice flying airplane.
but do that. sit down with your dad to do this. you're lucky you're in this position. take full advantage, and learn...do it right. :aok
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Insurance for me is about $80 a month in a 172, and a hail shed is $88.
We've heard from several mechanics to put atleast $15 for every hour of flight into a maintenance fund
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Sounds like you've got it all figured out...
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Sounds like you've got it all figured out...
Not all, slowly getting there though. Thank for all the help and advice guys
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Not all, slowly getting there though. Thank for all the help and advice guys
KEEP WORKING at it with your dad. you're gonna find out it's a lot more expensive than you're thinking right now.
i see a lot of people dig themselves in too deep with cars......i'd imagine it's a lot easier to do with an airplane. not trying to discourage ya....just tryin to be helpful.
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Build your own...
:noid
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The other plane we are looking at just finished it's pre-buy clean as a whistle, we are putting a deposit down, now were just negotiating price and accessories.
Sorry as I have of yet to post pictures, I promise I will do it later today
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Who did the pre buy on a clean as a whistle airplane?
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Who did the pre buy on a clean as a whistle airplane?
Err, I say "clean as a whistle" i meant it didn't have anything wrong with it, and all the A/Ds are current.
I'd have to ask my parents who did the pre buy.
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(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/200392_1626976274782_1247804014_31331451_6377255_n.jpg)
Ive got a bunch more, but photobucket isnt letting me upload so i just uploaded this one to facebook.
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No takers, eh? :D