Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: VoX on March 15, 2011, 07:38:33 AM
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Could we have skip bombing please on water and land, nothing would satisfy me more than to skip bomb a 250 into the side of Mr Tiger or Mr CV. (Obviously the 'nothing would satisfy me more' was for effect, i do actually have a life, just not found it yet!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing)
I know its Wiki, the art of fiction made real! :devil
:D
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YES!!
YEEES!!!
YESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yes?
nein...
yes!
+1 :aok
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Now the only thing you have to do is survive the 5" guns that use proximity fuses far beyond today's ability, to make the drop. :joystick:
And no, I'm not against this. I'm 100% for it. :x +1
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:aok
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why dont you try using some rockets in your favorite fast plane. see how good your chances of survival are against cv ack. then think about skip bombing again. and no skip bombing wasnt used on land :bhead :bhead.
semp
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ssshhhh...semp, they want to blow up the dams on the rivers with skip bombs.
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definitely interesting nonetheless
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+ :aok
Maybe add some Dams to the map too
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why dont you try using some rockets in your favorite fast plane. see how good your chances of survival are against cv ack. then think about skip bombing again. and no skip bombing wasnt used on land :bhead :bhead.
semp
I do this often, a 38L with 10 rockets, makes a good dent in a cruiser.
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I do this often, a 38L with 10 rockets, makes a good dent in a cruiser.
perhaps diving, but try level flight see how well you do :devil.
semp
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+1
I will probably figure this out years before I finally sort torpedos.
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why dont you try using some rockets in your favorite fast plane. see how good your chances of survival are against cv ack. then think about skip bombing again. and no skip bombing wasnt used on land :bhead :bhead.
semp
I imagine you could skip on land as well if someone tried, though.
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perhaps diving, but try level flight see how well you do :devil.
semp
Thats what I am talking about. Level flight head on, kills cruiser quick.
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why dont you try using some rockets in your favorite fast plane. see how good your chances of survival are against cv ack. then think about skip bombing again. and no skip bombing wasnt used on land :bhead :bhead.
semp
the heck if it wasnt used on land.. read more germany and the U.S did it for sure. and if i read more i bet the Soviets did too. and +1 for it :aok
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and no skip bombing wasnt used on land :bhead :bhead.
semp
Yes it was.
This is an article that appeared in Life during WW2 detailing the training and methods used for skip bombing. As you can see by the pictures and the article that the bomber crews are trained for both skip bombing on water and on land. It even has a series of photos showing skip bombing on land against a target bunker.
Skip Bombing (http://books.google.com/books?
id=IlcEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=land+skip+bombing&source=bl&ots=80SDbLExxT&sig=_DzmwbhY6pe_a6l-fJiuAkV-gTo&hl=en&ei=aVyBTfPuOsfIcYbypZkD&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=land%20skip%20bombing&f=false)
An example of skip bombing on land is the Doolittle Raid, that was the bombing method they employed.
ack-ack
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An example of skip bombing on land is the Doolittle Raid, that was the bombing method they employed.
ack-ack
Not likely since drop altitude was 1500 feet.
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there's always things that were done in ww2. the peoples ingenuity was pretty good. I am pretty sure the sticky bomb shown in saving pvt ryan was used many times in ww2, but not widely used as you guy simply the skip bomb was. this is an example of one
"Murphy was one of a very small number of volunteer pilots who, with their flight crews, started bombing at low altitudes in B-17 flying fortresses in the Southwest Pacific. The aircraft were flown at a 200-foot altitude and at 250 miles per hour at night. One-thousand pound bombs, equipped with four-to-five second fuses, were dropped from the B-17s. On March 3, 1943, the Japanese made a desperate move to re-supply their forces on New Guinea. Twenty-two cargo, transport, and war ships proceeded toward New Guinea using bad weather for cover. They were found in the Bismarck Sea. The Allied Air Forces--using skip bombing--sank all twenty-two Japanese ships. Murphy was credited with sinking nine Japanese ships during his year of combat, including one in the Bismarck Sea battle. Skip bombing became a tactic that helped the U.S. win the war in the South Pacific."
and these were used against ships not tanks and under cover of darkness, had they been used against cv or bigger boats, they wouldn't have lasted long.
akak once again you bring something that is more than a footnote than a widely used tactic. prove that it was widely used against tanks and cv.
semp
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If anything, it would be a great addition for an update that included a fleshed-out
group of targets (read : more ships, convoys, trains, etc. to blow up).
:aok
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akak once again you bring something that is more than a footnote than a widely used tactic. prove that it was widely used against tanks and cv.
semp
skip and mast-head bombing wasn't a widely used tactic?
ack-ack
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skip and mast-head bombing wasn't a widely used tactic?
ack-ack
just post one or two links in your research where they were widely used against tanks or cv's. i seem to not be able to find that info.
semp
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skip skip skip to mah lou...skip skip skip to mah lou...
semp, i think we all know skip bombing was conducted primarily against targets in the water...but (it will take some serious digging) there have been some "obtuse" references of the technique being employed late in the war against land based targets, i don't recall anything about tanks but structures and 1 or 2 trains yes...and i believe those attacks used either light bombers or fighter/bombers...
it may not have been the same technique that was used against ships but...the effect was the same.
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skip skip skip to mah lou...skip skip skip to mah lou...
semp, i think we all know skip bombing was conducted primarily against targets in the water...but (it will take some serious digging) there have been some "obtuse" references of the technique being employed late in the war against land based targets, i don't recall anything about tanks but structures and 1 or 2 trains yes...and i believe those attacks used either light bombers or fighter/bombers...
it may not have been the same technique that was used against ships but...the effect was the same.
i now but akak really likes to point out some obscure reference to whatever and makes it sound as if it was done everyday in ww2.
semp
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just post one or two links in your research where they were widely used against tanks or cv's. i seem to not be able to find that info.
semp
I never claimed they were widely used against CVs and tanks. However, skip bombing and mast-head bombing were used regularly to attack Japanese shipping and on occasion against fortified land positions. If you want an example of skip bombing on land, the Marine Corsairs regularly did it when they would skip napalm and bombs into Japanese pillboxes and bunkers. Just do a search of Marine ground support attacks at Okinawa to see some examples.
Also, skip bombing and mast-head bombing was found to be more accurate and effective than level bombing when it came to attacking ships, with mast-head bombing being the most effective with over a 70% impact rate. If you wish to learn more about skip bombing and mast-head bombing, just read the story of the 5th AF in the Pacific.
ack-ack
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I never claimed they were widely used against CVs and tanks. However, skip bombing and mast-head bombing were used regularly to attack Japanese shipping and on occasion against fortified land positions. If you want an example of skip bombing on land, the Marine Corsairs regularly did it when they would skip napalm and bombs into Japanese pillboxes and bunkers. Just do a search of Marine ground support attacks at Okinawa to see some examples.
Also, skip bombing and mast-head bombing was found to be more accurate and effective than level bombing when it came to attacking ships, with mast-head bombing being the most effective with over a 70% impact rate. If you wish to learn more about skip bombing and mast-head bombing, just read the story of the 5th AF in the Pacific.
ack-ack
but we're not talking about mast head bombing and the thread clearly refers using bombs to destroy tanks and cvs. a maneuver which was not widely used, but you're implying that it was.
semp
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but we're not talking about mast head bombing and the thread clearly refers using bombs to destroy tanks and cvs. a maneuver which was not widely used, but you're implying that it was.
semp
I suggest you get someone to read my posts for you and to explain what I wrote. I never claimed skip bombing or mast-head bombing were widely used against CVs or tanks. You stated that skip bombing was never used on land, when that little fact is not correct. Bomber crews of the 5th AF were regularly trained on land skip bombing (as shown in one of my earlier posts) and again, I suggested you look at the Marine ground support operations during Okinawa where Marine pilots flying ground support missions would use land skip bombing to hit fortified Japanese bunkers and pill boxes.
ack-ack
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Could we have skip bombing please on water and land, nothing would satisfy me more than to skip bomb a 250 into the side of Mr Tiger or Mr CV. (Obviously the 'nothing would satisfy me more' was for effect, i do actually have a life, just not found it yet!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing)
I know its Wiki, the art of fiction made real! :devil
:D
well this is the original wish, I could read it for you if you want. i mean it wasnt used on land against tanks, or on water against cv's. but if you look hard enough you can find that some guy actually used it once or twice against tanks, that doesnt mean it was a widely used tactic against tanks. as for being used against cv's , i couldnt find any reference to it.
semp
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He just asked for land and water skipping.
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He just asked for land and water skipping.
I would like to see its inclusion into the game as well but I think the coding would take some time as you would need to make changes to the terrain (water and land) to allow skip bombing as well as changes to the bombs to allow timed fused settings. If it's not possible to allow bombs to skip on the land or water due to how the current engine is programmed, I would like to see at least time fused settings be allowed on bombs to allow for mast-head bombing, which was far more effective and accurate than skip-bombing and widely used in the Pacific.
ack-ack
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Oh I don't know about that Ack Ack, when I crash, I skip and bounce across the terrain fairly well be for I explode.
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well this is the original wish, I could read it for you if you want. i mean it wasnt used on land against tanks, or on water against cv's. but if you look hard enough you can find that some guy actually used it once or twice against tanks, that doesnt mean it was a widely used tactic against tanks. as for being used against cv's , i couldnt find any reference to it.
semp
so can I have skip bombing to sink the ships around the CV? Then ill toss bomb the CV if that doesn't upset your delicte nature... as for tanks as I said earlyer it was used on land by germany and the us I know for a fact.. ya sure not evryone did it every day... but then again they were only thinking of keeping themselfs alive.. them gutless pigs... I mean what could go wrong droping a bomb so low?? On a side note semp I've read more wwii aircombat books then I care to recall. If I need to I could quote more than one.. I'm sure as heck not going to go looking on our "only the truth is told here" internet... that is your job. As clearly people who say they know they have read about it. Must back up what can sometimes (in my case) be decades of reading on the subject. Cuz you didn't like the answer you got.... and a second side note I even rember watching film of germany skip bombing with a Do-217. So go look for that on your you tube :old: and have a nice evening not reading a book :-)
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why dont you try using some rockets in your favorite fast plane. see how good your chances of survival are against cv ack. then think about skip bombing again. and no skip bombing wasnt used on land :bhead :bhead.
semp
Actually the P-51 strike fighter squadrons used skip bombing on land.
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So how is my Skip Bombing idea coming along, it must be nearly ready for deployment by now? :D
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Nice back from the dead thread. Just wanted to say that you can do mast head bombing do the cv as long as no one in the 5" is looking your way. You kind of toss the bomb pulling up from on the deck. If your fast you can survive the auto ack more than 50 percent of the time.
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As for aircraft skipping on land...
There was a series of novels by a retired RAF pilot, Robert Jackson, following a pilot through the war, from a Hurricane at the Battle of France, through 1940 and to the end of the war in the Gloster Meteor and afterwards in to the Vampire :). Two of the novels focus on the beloved Mossie. (Yes, I have the full run of novels!). One of these two novels focus on low level precision raids.
On one sortie they come across a train heading for a tunnel. They skip a 500lb bomb in at the far end of the tunnel, run back and skip one in the other, blocking the train in.
The next they get sent on a special op to skip a bomb in to a large ammo dump, or similar, through a mine entrance.
The last is a raid to take out a gestapo HQ.
Yes, it is fiction. Yes it has probably been 15 years since I read them. But by a retired pilot based on experience.
Regards,
Leonard
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why dont you try using some rockets in your favorite fast plane. see how good your chances of survival are against cv ack. then think about skip bombing again. and no skip bombing wasnt used on land :bhead :bhead.
semp
I read an account of a Butcher Bird pilot who flew the 'F8' ground attack model. He spoke of coming in low, on the deck and skip bombing. It is the only reference I've read and who knows but...
Boo
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MUST...........RESIST........ ...THE..........URGE......... .TO..........FLY..........NOE ............WITH.........A... ..........B29
:aok +1 on skip bombing lol
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I read an account of a Butcher Bird pilot who flew the 'F8' ground attack model. He spoke of coming in low, on the deck and skip bombing. It is the only reference I've read and who knows but...
Boo
Look at some of the videos of F4Us hitting Japanese fortified positions using skip bombing techniques, especially with the napalm bombs.
ack-ack
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The last is a raid to take out a gestapo HQ.
This actualy happened. The Gestapo put political prisoners on the top floor of the HQ so the allies would not attempt to hit it. The Mossies skipped small bombs in at about 1,000ft so not to harm the prisoner
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Could we have skip bombing please on water and land, nothing would satisfy me more than to skip bomb a 250 into the side of Mr Tiger or Mr CV. (Obviously the 'nothing would satisfy me more' was for effect, i do actually have a life, just not found it yet!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing)
I know its Wiki, the art of fiction made real! :devil
:D
Wiki is not fiction, errors here and there perhaps but overall a good source of info. You could also view the citation's listed at the bottom of the page.
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MUST...........RESIST...........THE..........URGE..........TO..........FLY..........NOE............WITH.........A.............B29
:aok +1 on skip bombing lol
:O
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Skip bombing on land was a widely used tactic among pilots of the A-36, the P-51's predecessor. I have footage if anyone is in doubt. I fully agree with skip bombing, and hope to see it in the future.
+1
:aok
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Skip bombing on land was a widely used tactic among pilots of the A-36, the P-51's predecessor. I have footage if anyone is in doubt. I fully agree with skip bombing, and hope to see it in the future.
+1
:aok
How does this work? I mean I understand the principle. I thought there was a propeller on the front of the bomb that has to rotate so many times to arm it. How does it not get demolished as soon as the bomb hits the ground?
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How does this work? I mean I understand the principle. I thought there was a propeller on the front of the bomb that has to rotate so many times to arm it. How does it not get demolished as soon as the bomb hits the ground?
To skip bomb you need to have a delay fuse bomb and be at very low altitude. The delay in the fuse alows the bomb to skip along the ground before detonating several seconds later, and letting the plane escape
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It's been active in warbirds since version 2.77, I believe.
One thing you have to do is immediately break off as the skipping bombs will skip along below you and blow you up.
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To skip bomb you need to have a delay fuse bomb and be at very low altitude. The delay in the fuse alows the bomb to skip along the ground before detonating several seconds later, and letting the plane escape
Ahhh so it's a specific type of bomb then. Somehow I was thinking that it was done with a regular iron bomb.
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Ahhh so it's a specific type of bomb then. Somehow I was thinking that it was done with a regular iron bomb.
It was a normal iron bomb but with a delayed fuse and sometimes depending on the hardness of the target, AP bombs were used with a delayed fuse.
ack-ack
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Read" "A War of their Own" History of the 13th AF.
Land and sea skip bombing was adopted pre-war from the brits and used by Kennedy and the 13th. Mostly at sea as that's where the targets were.
Low-Alt 100lb and 250lb para-frags would be great fun and historically correct.
Both the Germans and Russians land skipped against armor.
NAPALM!!!!!! for late-war. Limited to Hogs and Jugs under 500ft, 200Kts. Struck armor would have to burn for 3 min before detonating, crew can evacuate.
Visualze a spawn battle with columns of black smoke blowing across the field. Kursk?
Out here.
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NAPALM!!!!!! for late-war. Limited to Hogs and Jugs under 500ft, 200Kts. Struck armor would have to burn for 3 min before detonating, crew can evacuate.
Visualze a spawn battle with columns of black smoke blowing across the field. Kursk?
Out here.
Why would napalm be limited to F4Us and P-47s? Doesn't make any sense considering napalm was dropped by various planes from fighters to bombers.
ack-ack
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Why would napalm be limited to F4Us and P-47s? Doesn't make any sense considering napalm was dropped by various planes from fighters to bombers.
ack-ack
b29 with napalm ............ :noid ...................... :O
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b29 with napalm ............ :noid ...................... :O
Yep, they dropped napalm bombs too.
ack-ack
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Why would napalm be limited to F4Us and P-47s? Doesn't make any sense considering napalm was dropped by various planes from fighters to bombers.
ack-ack
Initially they were the "Tactical" users against vehicles and soft targets.
Adopted by LeMay against Jappanesse cities in small canisters for stratigic use, not well adapted to the AH environment.
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Ahhh so it's a specific type of bomb then. Somehow I was thinking that it was done with a regular iron bomb.
Iron bomb, tail fuze.
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Initially they were the "Tactical" users against vehicles and soft targets.
Adopted by LeMay against Jappanesse cities in small canisters for stratigic use, not well adapted to the AH environment.
You seem to miss the point, P-47s and F4Us were not the only planes to drop napalm. P-38s, Hellcats, Mustangs and others were "tactical" users of napalm when the mission called for such ordnance.
ack-ack
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ssshhhh...semp, they want to blow up the dams on the rivers with skip bombs.
I was gonna add to that buddy. As far as I know, and I have read a lot of books on WW2 and aside from the "Dambuster" Raids I have never read anything that mentioned using that method on land. Think about it, first you are flying so low that if the ack-ack gunners were so astonished to see an aircraft flying that low and level to assure a their ordnance was on target and did not fire their weapons it might have been great. But AA gunners would down that plane so quick it would be a waste of planes and pilots (in theory, and I have read that German AA Gunners were pretty darn good). Second, I really cannot see any ordnance being accurate enough to tumble in a perfectly straight line into said target due to so many variables such as wind and the terrain. Now, I have read accounts of (and I have mentioned this in the past) of "Jug" Pilots when strafing Armor on concrete roads trying to fire their .50's so they bounce off the concrete and underneath tanks and SP's to penetrate the vulnerable underside, therefore maybe hitting the fuel tank, ammo compartment, or even personnel inside. How often this was done successfully I really don't know. I never researched any further.
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I was gonna add to that buddy. As far as I know, and I have read a lot of books on WW2 and aside from the "Dambuster" Raids I have never read anything that mentioned using that method on land.
Marine Corsair pilots did it in the Pacific.
ack-ack