Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: PuppetZ on March 20, 2011, 09:43:58 PM
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Another suggestion that I know wont fly. But I honestly think is the best solution for dealing with new players so they dont gt completely turned off within the first few days.
Steal a page of sorts from the AW playbook (with major improvements) and have a score limited newbie arena whereas newbies could opt to go to that arena to hone their skills against each other until they reach a certain level of proficiency to be determined by their stats( Possibly a formula of hit % and KD ratio combination) before being forced into the MA.
Now they could still opt with a warning message as to what they might be in for to forgo the Newbie arena and just dive right into the MA. But I think that many newbies who would otherwise be deterred and turned off to the game by the extremely steep learning curve in the MA might be more inclined to head back to an arena untill they reach the determined time or score level thats not full of aces that seem more like gods then players where they might be able to progress and learn against people more or less at their own level of experience and skill level at their own pace rather then just say "screw this its too hard"
This arena should be named something enticing like "Aces High Basic Combat Academy" and have a strict side limiter installed and a minimal of captureable bases and have those bases remain captured only for say and hour before they revert back to their original team because this would be about learning some of the nuances of the game and not purely for conquest.
Maybe dumb down some of the damage model and get rid of PWs so they wont die quite as easily from mistakes but will be able to learn what a bad mistake is. Maybe for that damage thats dumbed down, have the option of having an instructor like sound file to let them know "Dummy if this were real, you woulda lost a wing" or "If this were real you would have collided and gotten yourself killed" Or, "Pay attention! you just killed him but you also killed yourself"
And maybe a keyboard command that would bring up a list on the clipboard of common commands such as how to start your engine,drop bombs, etc.
The idea being to help players familiarize themselves with the game while going up against other players of varying skill levels but not so skilled that they dont stand any chance at all.
You could even have Vets volunteer to enter the arenas on a limited and side based level to help and teach and organize the basics. To prevent abuse. Trainers ammo would be severely dummied down and would be limited to an even number per side.
Next up we could rename the current TA to "Advanced Fighter Combat Training Academy" for those that want ot go and learn under an official trainer advanced fighter tactics. but with a warning that unless you've completed basic training AFCTA wont be very helpful to you.
The names of these places are almost as important as what they are there for to give the customer a sense of . "hmmm. Now that sounds interesting"
Tell me. If any of you were new,Which one would you rather go to based on name alone. "The Training Arena"? Or the "Advanced Fighter Combat Training Academy"?
To a new customer. Presentation is everything. This applies to any business. I dont care if its Aces High or a janotorial servise to clean toilets.
Hell, it was proven in the 70s that you could sell people a rock in a box if you just presented it right.
Followed closely by content. As was also proven with "The Pet rock" Not even always content LOL
But here we actually have content. What want is people to come. And then want to stay once they have. the problem is cept for diehards or people already with some flight sim experience in depth. You could be taking some people who barely know an elevator from a landing gear and throwing them into a place where many people are so far advanced they seem unreachable.
Yet, if you provide them with a way to learn how to get part way up that mountain. They might be less inclined to give up
A Newbie arena would help. And a proper name for it might entice them to check it out.
+1 that
would help keep these people interested.
More people=more action
more action=more fun
more fun=more people
see this thing sells itself ;)
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We have a newbie place, it's called the dueling arena. You can use the stall limiter and external views to make it easier when you're starting out. We also have a newbie place called the training arena where, in addition to the stall limiter and F3 view, bullets don't damage your plane and people are willing to help newbies learn what they need to learn.
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Well then let's call it that because it isn't so obvious when you look at the name...dueling arena is where I go if I want to duel. Not fly against another new guy like me...
Training arena: I've been playing now for maybe a month steady and more or less sporadically last year maybe 2-3 months. And I've read a good deal of the content on the trainer site, ahwiki and whatnot. Never knew there was rubber bullet in TA. That's genuinely new for me. And the few times I've been there, there was a whole lot of notin' going on so... I'm not really familiar with it at all. If the duelling arena had been called the beginner's arena, then maybe I would have hoped there instead of straight in MA. How should I know it's where I should go to begin with. Nobody told me. That's the point I want to make with this. I know you trainer really wish to help but your community is not geared toward customer retention it's more the like of a technical assistance hotline (no insult meant here, it's just that I work for a car dealer so that's the vocabulary I'm familiar with) where I can find help once I decide to buy the product.
I try this out to see if I like. If I decide I like, then I pay and maybe will go look for a trainer to explain me the odds and ends of the game. But If I up from a field and go where there is a mix of red and green(I'm not THAT stupid after all :D) and get repeatedly burned times and times again. It grow very old, very fast. Customer goes : BLAH! what a piece of ... hit escape and go to greener pasture(with his green paper if I might add). If there was some sort of place I'm pitted against people my skill level just to ease me into the game. And besides, I'm not at all convinced that DA is actually a better place for newcomer as nothing assure me that those with tons of experience do not go there, I'll have to check it out tough. I don't want to give an opinion without experiencing it first hand.
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Maybe have it so once they improve and the k/d reaches a certain level, the next time they log in they are awarded with a completion of training certificate, and orders to report to the MA.
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Maybe have it so once they improve and the k/d reaches a certain level, the next time they log in they are awarded with a completion of training certificate, and orders to report to the MA.
Hey a great concept idea! details like that make any game better. haha maybe you could even print your certificate.
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Puppet the best way to for newbies to practice with someone at their skill level is to fight 1v1 in the same aircraft. The best place for that is the DA or TA.
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Puppet the best way to for newbies to practice with someone at their skill level is to fight 1v1 in the same aircraft. The best place for that is the DA or TA.
Agreed. Now let's just put a big sign pointing that way and it will be good. Once you install to tryout you're pretty much left to yourself you know. I had to figure alot of things by myself. While it didn't change the fact I liked the game. A simple message telling me on login : we strongly recommend beginners and those not familliar with online flight sim to use DA for a while until they get used to the game. If you so desire you can always hop by the TA and ask for help. You can also post any question you might have on our forums at http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php bla bla bla It's a MOTD kind of thing.
see. There's no need to dumb down the physics/perk plane for better guy/zone eny and what not. We simply need to take the hand of our new comers and teach them to 'walk'. They will get good at hit and you'll see them running in no time(well figuratively speaking). We, collectively, don't want a lowest common denominator system (which I, for one, do NOT wish to see implemented, as the high level of competition and sheer difficulty is IMO what make AH most satisfying(I bet you can remember your first kill)). Yet for our continued enjoyment of the game, we must thrive to make the community grow.
what I'm talking about here is for HTC customer retention. If enough people join in, maybe it would be worthwhile to present player with gigantic map where a very high population cap is in effect thus negating(or at the least reducing) the effect of trying to split a small population over 2 smaller arenas with all the problems that brings (I will not get into this as they have already been discussed ad nauseam)
respectfully.
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For a complete newbie the TA is a better place to start than the DA. You're certainly welcome to take newbies by the hand there and help them walk and run.
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Agreed. Now let's just put a big sign pointing that way and it will be good.
Hmmmm....
"Training Arena" would to me be the obvious place to go if I were brand new and didn't know anything about the AH2 world. Whether I new there was no damage or not, I would go there for some "training". :salute
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you guys ever stop and think that perhaps the new guys are a few a week and not hundreds. so you put all the noobs in one arena and well look at ew, ww1, ava. they will be there by themselves.
semp
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Maybe have it so once they improve and the k/d reaches a certain level, the next time they log in they are awarded with a completion of training certificate, and orders to report to the MA.
In the newbie arena that we had in AW, there was a 10,000 point limit. Once you hit that threshold, you couldn't take off in a fighter or bomber with any ammo or ordnance. Which prevented players from staying in the newbie arena and prevented vets from coming in and using it as their own personal seal pup hunting grounds.
ack-ack
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Puppet the best way to for newbies to practice with someone at their skill level is to fight 1v1 in the same aircraft. The best place for that is the DA or TA.
I dont think so sir these new guys want to get into the action FAST, what better way to learn than against guys of their own skill level with no BS like the DA and damage unlike the TA.
But pretty much match the MAs
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I dont think so sir these new guys want to get into the action FAST, what better way to learn than against guys of their own skill level with no BS like the DA and damage unlike the TA.
But pretty much match the MAs
What are they going to learn from other newbies? In the TA they can learn what they're ready to learn, then they need to practice it. Practicing 1v1 against another newbie in the TA or DA lets them learn something other than getting picked and ganged. The person that teaches you a lead turn or lag pursuit probably doesn't have the time to practice it with you for a week or two but another newbie, fighting 1v1 in the same aircraft, gives you the opportunity to practice and to win some fights. Why would a horde of newbies in their own arena be better than that?
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The "noob arena" will be just like the DA. All the noobs will learn from each other is how to point their plane at another plane and hold the trigger down - hoping to kill the other guy before running into his propeller. They can't learn BFM - let alone any ACM - from each other if nobody in there knows anything. Ever hear of the saying "the blind leading the blind"? ;)
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What are they going to learn from other newbies? In the TA they can learn what they're ready to learn, then they need to practice it. Practicing 1v1 against another newbie in the TA or DA lets them learn something other than getting picked and ganged. The person that teaches you a lead turn or lag pursuit probably doesn't have the time to practice it with you for a week or two but another newbie, fighting 1v1 in the same aircraft, gives you the opportunity to practice and to win some fights. Why would a horde of newbies in their own arena be better than that?
When it was in practice in AW, trainers and veteran players alike would venture into the newbie arena and help out as the newbie arena also doubled as the training arena in not only how to fly but also in how the game works. It was a very efficient system in getting new players ready for the main arenas. The new players that had a tough time adapting to the main arenas in AW were invariably the ones that never took the opportunity to take advantage of the newbie arena.
There was also an Air Warrior Training Academy were new players that joined actually had to go through a structured training program that taught them the fundimentals of not only flying but also game play. The "students" would meet for their weekly classes, practice what was on the agenda for that class and then the instructor would give them "homework" in the newbie arena to practice what was taught earlier.
No knock on the AH trainers, they do a great job and have been a great asset but AH needs a more structured training program in addition to a newbie arena to go hand in hand with it. Those that take advantage of these kind of these things are more likely to stick around for a long period of time than those that jump straight into the pool full of sharks without thinking to put their floaties on before hand.
ack-ack
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The best way to get a good feel for the game is to fly offline for a year or more(shooting drones and flying through hangars) and then go online. That way you already know how to shoot accurately, perform basic maneuvers, and basically get a good feel for how the planes fly. When you go online after a year+ you can focus on dogfighting and angles, rather than trying to learn everything at once. I've helped quite a few people out in the DA, I can't help someone make progress in a dogfight, which involves advanced flying skills and reflexes, before they can at lease handle a plane proficiently.
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We have a newbie place, it's called the dueling arena. You can use the stall limiter and external views to make it easier when you're starting out. We also have a newbie place called the training arena where, in addition to the stall limiter and F3 view, bullets don't damage your plane and people are willing to help newbies learn what they need to learn.
These places real popular with the newbies these days?
Thats only a semi sarcastic comment. Its sarcasm in and that Neither of those arenas seem to have a ton of people in them. The DA seems to be dominated by Vets which places new players at an even greater peril because of the external views are available to be used and abused by vets as well.
And the TA rarely has more then a few in it and often not even that. In either case Stall limiter is a wash because its also available in the MA as well.
Its also not sarcasm. because I see your a trainer and as such you would be in a better position to tell us what kind of percentage of Newbs come for training.
The beauty of a newb arena is that they can be exposed to an MA type environment and really shoot people down unlike the TA. but be up against people with a similar skill set and not against people so far up the skill ladder that they seem almost like gods. Which is what they would face in the DA or MA.
Your TA would still be available for advanced training. It would probobly become more popular as people would be able to see the natural progression. and your job would be easier as you wouldnt have to concentrate on the basics of flight
People come here to try and kill things, Thats whats fun. not shooting rubber bullets at each other.. That is why I think the TA isnt as popular as it could be with the newbies. And most people aren't going to first seek out a trainer when they first get here. They are going to want to see if they can do it themselves. Thats just the nature of people in general. Not just here but anywhere.
The TA is very useful once you have a feel for the game and want to improve your skillset without having to land and rearm all the time. but for a newb. They just want some action now. It takes time before many see the benefit of the TA. And many never do.
I say keep the TA but also add the Newb arena as I suggest. But rename both to make each more appealing. Then by the time they enter either one of the MAs or the DA they have some experience under their belt which will give them that boxers chance.
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you guys ever stop and think that perhaps the new guys are a few a week and not hundreds. so you put all the noobs in one arena and well look at ew, ww1, ava. they will be there by themselves.
semp
We dont know. HTC hasnt made us privy to those numbers
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Hmmmm....
"Training Arena" would to me be the obvious place to go if I were brand new and didn't know anything about the AH2 world. Whether I new there was no damage or not, I would go there for some "training". :salute
To us us it would seem obvious. I dont think so so much to a newb. And I think the very name "training arena" May have a small part to do with it. Alot may feel it carries some sort of stigma with it of inadequacy that one might need...training.
Course those of us who have been here a while see the benefit of such a place. But most newbs just want to jump in and get some sort of action But this game lacks the entry level hook that most other games have where they start off easy and get progressively harder. Those first couple levels is often what makes or breaks a game as its those levels that either get the player "hooked" Or they dont.
The TA has no hook factor. Its great for being trained once you have a basic idea of what your doing.
The DA is like the MA in that your automatically subjected to level 110 difficulty level with most of the adversaries your going against.
A Newb arena would make a nice hook because they could actually play the game. but not be subjected to level 110 because nobody is at level 110
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The "noob arena" will be just like the DA. All the noobs will learn from each other is how to point their plane at another plane and hold the trigger down - hoping to kill the other guy before running into his propeller. They can't learn BFM - let alone any ACM - from each other if nobody in there knows anything. Ever hear of the saying "the blind leading the blind"? ;)
reread my suggestion. I had already thought of this and made a provision for it to allow a limited number of vets into the arena and spread out among all sides to keep it fair albeit with dumbed down ammo so as not to abuse their power but to help teach the game.
There the Vets could organise missions which would help in teaching the game itself as well as the very basics of ACM . They could also promote and encourage use of the TA and their trainers to learn more advanced skills.
Just like in the military you first learn to be a soldier before you learn more specialized training. Gotta learn to crawl before you can walk
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reread my suggestion.
Sorry I didn't read the wall-of-text quote in the OP, so I didn't realize that wall of text came from you. I was just commenting on the thread title and what PuppetZ said.
If this could be made to work, I see it as a good thing.
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Perhaps the TA in AH serves the same function as the newbie arena in AW with veterans and trainers helping newbies and the lack of damage and scoring limiting the baby seal clubbing.
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+1 to what Drediock said.
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Keep in mind that the graduates from the AW newbie arena moved on to the relaxed realism arena. I would guess that a majority of them never progressed to full realism.
Anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena. :aok
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Perhaps the TA in AH serves the same function as the newbie arena in AW with veterans and trainers helping newbies and the lack of damage and scoring limiting the baby seal clubbing.
No offense but it sounds to me like someone is concerned that their job is being undermined.
There is no comparison between the AW newbie arena and the TA here. Its apples and oranges
Other comparisons would be that in AW the newbie arena was actually used pretty extensively. Here. Not so much. Of those that come to AH, try it then leave. How many seek out trainers or use the TA before they leave? I'd be willing to bet its but a fraction of those that come and dont stay. You would know better then I but I'd be wiling to bet that the TA is used mostly by folks who have been here past the free two weeks.
People by nature dont want to be "trained" right off the bat, And they dont want No damage or no score. They want to jump right in and play, set planes on fire and watch things go boom. Especially if they are only getting it free for two weeks. Now Im not saying that two weeks free needs to be changed. Nor is it a complaint about it. But they arent going to in their mind "waste" time from their two weeks to be trained. They want to jump in and just play against other people unencumbered by a trainer.
Again. A Newbie arena would allow them to play in an MA type setting where they really can shoot and blow up other people against those people who are close to their skill level because everyone there is a newbie. And without being little more then a baby seal because Vets, cept for trainers would not be allowed in.
By the time a newbie gets to the level where his opponents become baby seals. His score should be reflective of that. And at which point he would be forced to migrate to either the TA. Where you would reside for further and more structured and advanced training. Or to the MA.
To prevent MA regulars from heading to the newbie arena. Allowance into the Newbie arena could be determined by how much time one has spent in the MA.
Say, 3 weeks. Once you have spent 3 weeks in the MA you would no longer be allowed into the Newbie Arena and instead would be referred to by way of pop up suggestion to the TA.
Example of such a message
"You have exceeded your time allotment in the main arena for admission to the Newb arena.
For further and more advanced training. which will result in a better gaming experience
It is strongly suggested you try the TA where trainers are available to help you"
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Sorry I didn't read the wall-of-text quote in the OP, so I didn't realize that wall of text came from you. I was just commenting on the thread title and what PuppetZ said.
If this could be made to work, I see it as a good thing.
As frustrating as I know walls of text can be. Sometimes they are worth reading in their entirety because the OP may have thought of and included
Many of the details.
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Keep in mind that the graduates from the AW newbie arena moved on to the relaxed realism arena. I would guess that a majority of them never progressed to full realism.
Anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena. :aok
But nobody is suggesting a RR arena. Even a Newb arena isnt being suggested as an RR arena. Certainly not from a flying/flight model standpoint which was the primary difference between RR and FR.
The only thing I suggested be dumbed down is Pilot wounds, collisions ( at which point I suggested a warning message) and some of the damage absorbed
Why are you behaving so paranoid about this suggestion?
If anything it enhances your importance
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Drediock the time I volunteer to help people in AH has nothing to do with my job. I'm disappointed that you'd accuse me of being paranoid and having concerns about my importance simply because I don't support your suggestions.
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OK guys, please let's keep this civil. On my OP I was supporting the idea which came from DREDIOCK on another thread because as a recent newb myself, I feel that I was thrown in the game without so much of a pointer as to how the game worked. I already had a basic grasp of flying thanks to my time on Flight simulator but no military flight sim experience. I joined in. Saw TA with 3 people, told myself hey i wanna pick up a fight not goof around searching for 3 people on a map. Remember, I have no idea about bar-dar,dot-dar, vulching, caping, porking, hordes, acm, bfm or even how the game works, where to go to pick a fight, how to approach a fight even less about E management. I just know I'm trying that game out and I wanna blow something up. It's easy to assume that people know as much as we do but it's almost never the case.
you guys ever stop and think that perhaps the new guys are a few a week and not hundreds. so you put all the noobs in one arena and well look at ew, ww1, ava. they will be there by themselves.
semp
In my understanding of business, it make it only more important to retain those potential customer since there is (potentially) so few of them.
Again I say it, this is all about retention. If it's so rare that someone will 'walk in', it is all the more critical that they are kept hooked.
The trainer corp certainly serve a purpose in the game. As would a place like the beginner's arena where noobs could have their fun while figuring out for themselves BFM and basic ACM. Then the trainer would get to take relay with those that, coming out of the noob arena, would like to enhance their skill. A message in-game could point them that way.
Also, I believe that a few in-game pointer would go a long way in reducing this feeling of being at a complete loss when faced with a rather cold and hard interface that is not really self-explanatory.
Certainly the concept is not perfect but i think it deserve some thought before being dismissed on the basis of simplistic argument and assumption of data that only HTC possess.
Respecfully.
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The help files, FAQ, and trainer's page is a good place for a newbie to start. Learning air combat from other newbies is likely to load you up with misinformation that makes real learning more difficult. I doubt anyone forced you to enter the arenas unprepared. ;) If people choose to jump right in to the main arenas they will probably do so even if you have an attractively named newbie arena. You suggest staffing 2 arenas with volunteers when the training arena is already empty at times. How much time are you willing to commit to helping people?
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I do not think a new pilot place is required. From the moment that I first started my subscription I was in the Late War Mains. I never spent time with a trainer(although I highly recommend this), I just read everything I could get my hands on, asked questions in the Help Forums, and kept upping and going after red guys. If you make it too easy, there could be a culture shock when they are exposed to the actual chaos and destruction of the Main arenas.
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Drediock the time I volunteer to help people in AH has nothing to do with my job. I'm disappointed that you'd accuse me of being paranoid and having concerns about my importance simply because I don't support your suggestions.
I meant your job as an AH trainer. Not IRL. Sorry for the misunderstanding
Maybe your not. And maybe its just me. But to me it just looks like your coming off that way.
Answer me this though. Of all the newbs that pass through. Whats the percentage that seek out trainers or the TA itself in that free two week period?
Near as I can tell from the outside looking in. Only a minute percentage. And I'd be willing to wager an even smaller percentage that come. Get turned off by the learning curve or from getting clubbed and then leave. Ever even bother trying the TA.
All my suggestion does is provide them with a way to get their feet wet and perhaps stay a little longer then they otherwise would have. Long enough to begin to consider the TA.
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Duplicate post. Net lag
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FLS : Believe me when I say I want in no way diminish the dedicated work you do, probably on a daily basis, to teach us, unbelievers, BFM and ACM. I'm in no way ungrateful for your and other trainer's dedication. As for the time I might be inclined to dedicate to train other people, I don't believe that, for now at least, I could teach anything to anyone except maybe what NOT to do. Maybe I could try to teach the basic tough if anyone ask. I've been told many times that I should be a teacher in RL. I'd be really happy to share with anyone what little I have to offer in terms of flying skill and flight physics.
So let's leave it at that for now. Any further discussion on the subjet is IMHO futile since only HTC has all the data that would grant us all the light on the subject so I'll just drop it.
No bad feeling here. I hope to see you around TA. If you see me say hello. Maybe you can teach a trick or two to a not so young anymore dog.
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DOUBLE POST
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TRIPLE POST
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QUADRUPLE POST
Maybe we should have a cap (ahem) on these post thingy :rofl
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I do not think a new pilot place is required. From the moment that I first started my subscription I was in the Late War Mains. I never spent time with a trainer(although I highly recommend this), I just read everything I could get my hands on, asked questions in the Help Forums, and kept upping and going after red guys. If you make it too easy, there could be a culture shock when they are exposed to the actual chaos and destruction of the Main arenas.
And I would be in full 100% agreement if thats what everyone else tended to do as well.
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And I would be in full 100% agreement if thats what everyone else tended to do as well.
Noted Drediock. Unfortunately you are correct. Most will not spend the time to research, learn, and practice to become successful. Successful is used loosely as it has a wide range of what folks consider to be "successful" in the Main arenas(ie-1 v 1's, bombing, furballing, GV'ing, score potatoing, etc.)
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Tip: If your post doesn't show right away do not try to resend it. :D
Drediock AH is my hobby and the time I volunteer to help people can hardly be threatened by any additional training assets. The only thing that could happen is I would have more time to fly in the other arenas. I don't mind you attacking my ideas just stay on point.
I have no way of knowing how many newbies seek out training. It's possible that everyone that can't get off the ground in the main arenas goes to the TA. I do know that sometimes there are more people requesting help than I have time for. Other times I'm in there and nobody needs anything.
Hitech knows as much as any of us about what was good about AW. I'm sure he has his reasons why we don't have a newbie arena. Maybe he'll decide that AH needs something for the people seeking instant gratification.
I understand your intent. I don't agree that an additional arena needing additional volunteers for guidance is the best way to achieve your goals.
Edit: IIRC the newbie arena in AW was at a time when AW was free for AOL subscribers and AOL was the biggest ISP. That may have been a prime reason for the population of the newbie arena and newbie retention for the RR arena.
Puppet it's easy to suggest a solution where other people volunteer to make it work. :old:
You don't have to be an ACM expert to help a newbie set up their mouse and get off the ground. As long as you don't try to teach something you don't know you'll be fine. I'm not saying that you shouldn't wish for a beginner's arena or that you need to help train people but if you want to help newbies the opportunities are available.
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Puppet it's easy to suggest a solution where other people volunteer to make it work. :old:
You don't have to be an ACM expert to help a newbie set up their mouse and get off the ground. As long as you don't try to teach something you don't know you'll be fine. I'm not saying that you shouldn't wish for a beginner's arena or that you need to help train people but if you want to help newbies the opportunities are available.
I think I'll do just that. If I help even 1 guy a week get off the ground, I think I can make my part to make this community even greater.
I don't like when people say I sit idle while they do all the job :D (don't panic I'm not offensed in the least ;) )
REPORTING FOR DUTY SIR :salute
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Keep in mind that the graduates from the AW newbie arena moved on to the relaxed realism arena. I would guess that a majority of them never progressed to full realism.
Anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena. :aok
While anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena, the training arena does not in one bit simulate the main arena enviroment. People used to flying in the training arena are caught with their pants around their ankles not knowing what to do.
ack-ack
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While anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena, the training arena does not in one bit simulate the main arena enviroment. People used to flying in the training arena are caught with their pants around their ankles not knowing what to do.
ack-ack
I agree with your sentiment, Ack-Ack. One of my favorite sayings is "Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect." Practicing improperly only results in the reinforcement of bad habits.
The thing is, I don't think the main benefit of having a newbie arena is necessarily increasing the capability of the individuals in it. Sure, those who are inclined to do so will seek the resources to get better.
What the newbie arena would do instead is give people an environment where they're not going to wind up running into a squad of top-shelf sticks and getting slapped around repeatedly. Ideally, they'd be in an arena with some people with similar skill levels to themselves, and have a chance to get a feel for flying around and shooting at people and see how much fun it is. Obviously, you're going to have the dolts who are experienced flight simmers running around slapping them down, but it should be possible to police that for the most part by looking at score etc.
Now of course, it's only delaying the fact that as you say, nothing can prepare you for the MA. If you go in there having never been in a similar situation before, you're going to spend a lot of time reappearing in tower wondering what got you. The thing is, if you had some of those warm fuzzies at first in the newbie arena, some people might be more inclined to tough it out and learn what they need to to get better. Some won't, will still think the guys that slapped them around in the MA are cheaters, and leave in a huff.
Would there be enough of the new people who would find it attractive to go to a relatively unpopulated newbie arena versus logging in with another 200 people in one of the MA's? I don't think so, and believe that's quite possibly why there isn't one, but I could be wrong.
Wiley.
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While anyone is free to run a structured training program in the training arena, the training arena does not in one bit simulate the main arena enviroment. People used to flying in the training arena are caught with their pants around their ankles not knowing what to do.
ack-ack
I'm not suggesting it's the same environment. I'm saying it's a better place to learn aircraft control, takeoff and landing, BFM, ACM, gunnery, brevity comms, tactical formations, and weapons employment. People used to flying around the training arena typically aren't in a structured training program.
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Now that I think about it, I can't remember a better autonomous setup (ie where it's all players like in the OP, not the TA that depends on trainers) to get a handle on dogfighting than the old H2H rooms with small furball maps like HtHide's.