Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Citabria on March 21, 2011, 12:37:23 PM
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Host: You are now being ported to the other main arena. You will be at your same speed and AGL altitude over a front line friendly base with full ammo and takeoff selected fuel.
Accept? Decline?
this new feature could be added for transitions to after hours and for transitions to blue and orange and titanic teusday main arenas to eliminate all transition problems. making the move to the new arena could be toggled as a accept decline window or somthing as well.
the buff pilots would like it. you could port squads en mass to either arena whichever needed a block of pilots.
its pretty seamless. might take abit of Coad though.
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complex? hard to coad? so is a realistic ww2 flight/combat sim but ht did that so heres a technical curveball.
1. coaded to port only when new arena opens. no ones going to be at the enemies bases yet anyway.
2. if you accept the port you get landed credit on your current sortie and your sortie after the port is new. or you could perhaps null out the previous sortie and have it not count or scored at all the way it happens with current host connection lost sorties when the server closes.
3. you would not have a choice where you get ported. its all the needs of the arena.
4. it theoretically can be coaded to have groups of pilots by squad name ported to the same arenas numbers permitting.
5. none of this is neccessary. however the biggest group arena switches hurt is the long range strat targetting buff crowd. having an option to port back to a starting point would make it less frustrating.
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That would be weird flying in blue and all of a sudden 5 birds of prey decloak off starboard side and blow me to hell.
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That would be weird flying in blue and all of a sudden 5 birds of prey decloak off starboard side and blow me to hell.
No it wouldn't because you would warp there yourself that that same moment, from the same arena, having retained the same position. Unless someone was just bouncing you on the original arena, you wouldn't be surprised by anyone.
Only thing that you would see is a few players in your vision disappear and darbar split to half. Citabria is presenting the dumbed down version of my suggestion.
edit: on further reading yes, Citabria actually suggests porting people to an existing field. That WOULD cause the uncloak / kill situation. But happening 1-2 times a day it's no different than letting your SA down for a second in any given present arena. Only with a difference that there was a warning beforehand.
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So you'd just appear on a different map on a "front line" base?
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So you'd just appear on a different map on a "front line" base?
That was my original suggestion, split the large arena to two similar sized arenas, retaining squad members on same side.
That way the war would continue seamlessly but 50% of enemies and friends would 'disco' from instant view for both servers.
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No it wouldn't because you would warp there yourself that that same moment, from the same arena, having retained the same position. Unless someone was just bouncing you on the original arena, you wouldn't be surprised by anyone.
Only thing that you would see is a few players in your vision disappear and darbar split to half. Citabria is presenting the dumbed down version of my suggestion.
edit: on further reading yes, Citabria actually suggests porting people to an existing field. That WOULD cause the uncloak / kill situation. But happening 1-2 times a day it's no different than letting your SA down for a second in any given present arena. Only with a difference that there was a warning beforehand.
i think what grizz ment was what if he's allready flying in blue, and he's bombing the rook base that the rooks would be ported at the time of them being ported?
he's allmost over town, getting ready to drop, then suddenly a swarm of rook fighters appear in the sky around him, from being ported to the blue from orenge.
atleast i think thats what he ment.
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i think what grizz ment was what if he's allready flying in blue, and he's bombing the rook base that the rooks would be ported at the time of them being ported?
he's allmost over town, getting ready to drop, then suddenly a swarm of rook fighters appear in the sky around him, from being ported to the blue from orenge.
atleast i think thats what he ment.
Yes that would happen if people would be moved to existing arenas. I thought Citabria was talking about similar thing to my idea which was to duplicate the whole MA to a parallel server, then split 50% of the population retaining position, attitude, state of war and squad members next to you. Then the arena could be split without need to relog, fill empty arenas or hunt for a slot to play with your friends.
You would see effectively bars drop by half and *poof* few players disappear next to you and game would continue as it was. Would probably happen only 1 time per day max.
Furthermore since neither server would be at max capacity OR empty after the split, players could migrate one by one if they needed without major issues.
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this new feature could be added for transitions to after hours and for transitions to blue and orange and titanic teusday main arenas to eliminate all transition problems. making the move to the new arena could be toggled as a accept decline window or somthing as well.
the buff pilots would like it. you could port squads en mass to either arena whichever needed a block of pilots.
its pretty seamless. might take abit of Coad though.
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If the base is shutdown and there is no hangers, troops are about to be dropped, then all of a sudden, BOOM!! theres 10 cons swooping down to kill the goon and the troops.
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Yes that would happen if people would be moved to existing arenas. I thought Citabria was talking about similar thing to my idea which was to duplicate the whole MA to a parallel server, then split 50% of the population retaining position, attitude, state of war and squad members next to you. Then the arena could be split without need to relog, fill empty arenas or hunt for a slot to play with your friends.
You would see effectively bars drop by half and *poof* few players disappear next to you and game would continue as it was. Would probably happen only 1 time per day max.
Furthermore since neither server would be at max capacity OR empty after the split, players could migrate one by one if they needed without major issues.
yea but that wouldnt be very fair to grizz, he just got done fighting his way behind enemy lines in the blue arena, just killed 3 fighters, hes low on ammo, FINALLY gets to target, and then gets surounded by a bunch of rook fighters that just spawned in mid-air around him from the other arena? that wouldnt be very fair.
only way i can see it working is if you make them spawn over the uncapturable base thats farthest from the front lines.
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If the base is shutdown and there is no hangers, troops are about to be dropped, then all of a sudden, BOOM!! theres 10 cons swooping down to kill the goon and the troops.
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If the base is shutdown and there is no hangers, troops about to be dropped and you get the message arena is shutting down in 4 minutes and you get locked out of the orange where your friends are while waiting for your troops to run in, that's better? What if they won't make it untill the server closes? What good will it make for YOU to capture a field on a server that won't open untill tomorrow again? :D
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i see a single flaw in the idea that could prevent it from working properly...it's the word "restart"...that's what happens when the single arena transitions to two...one gets shut down and the other 2 get started up...and there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that would not allow that kind of "teleporting" transition.
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yea but that wouldnt be very fair to grizz, he just got done fighting his way behind enemy lines in the blue arena, just killed 3 fighters, hes low on ammo, FINALLY gets to target, and then gets surounded by a bunch of rook fighters that just spawned in mid-air around him from the other arena? that wouldnt be very fair.
only way i can see it working is if you make them spawn over the uncapturable base thats farthest from the front lines.
Hmm you didn't read what I posted. If you spawn 50% of players to an empty arena that is otherwise a running copy of the existing server, nobody can by default get jumped by anyone.
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i see a single flaw in the idea that could prevent it from working properly...it's the word "restart"...that's what happens when the single arena transitions to two...one gets shut down and the other 2 get started up...and there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that would not allow that kind of "teleporting" transition.
Good point. But most likely a restart in effect will not be needed because when numbers drop, people will do what they do right now - consolidate to the one larger arena by their own admission. Then when that grows too much it will be split but it will take a long way to double the numbers and the smaller arena will most likely die off on it's own in the meanwhile.
I agree that there is that problem of 'ghost' server lingering if max count is reached before the small server dies off.
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I assume anyone else with experience in servers is also holding their head in their hands and sobbing quietly right now?
I really don't mind the 4 clicks of the mouse it takes to go from one arena to another at switch time.
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i think what grizz ment was what if he's allready flying in blue, and he's bombing the rook base that the rooks would be ported at the time of them being ported?
he's allmost over town, getting ready to drop, then suddenly a swarm of rook fighters appear in the sky around him, from being ported to the blue from orenge.
atleast i think thats what he ment.
grizz dropping on town at a enemy base!?!?! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
as for the idea of instead getting sent to the ground and keeping alt and everything ...I like it :aok
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all organisms evolve to higher levels of complexity until they collapse under their own weight and die off.
I recommend AH follow the KISS principle/ Keep It Simple Stupid.
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I assume anyone else with experience in servers is also holding their head in their hands and sobbing quietly right now?
I really don't mind the 4 clicks of the mouse it takes to go from one arena to another at switch time.
All easy things in this world have already been done.
Show me a way to get into capped orange (where my squad already is due to timezone difference) at my timezone using 4 clicks and I'll buy you a beer.
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i see a single flaw in the idea that could prevent it from working properly...it's the word "restart"...that's what happens when the single arena transitions to two...one gets shut down and the other 2 get started up...and there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that would not allow that kind of "teleporting" transition.
On reading again I have to restate:
Only 1 new server would need to be started, 50% players migrated to the running copy of the current one and current one would naturally continue to run but only with 50% leftover players. Both sides would see exactly half cut in the amount of arena numbers with the exception that squad friends would continue flying at their original positions on the same server with you.
I know my suggestion is a 'perfect world' solution meaning implementing it would cause a major headache for the developers.
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All easy things in this world have already been done.
Show me a way to get into capped orange (where my squad already is due to timezone difference) at my timezone using 4 clicks and I'll buy you a beer.
I wouldn't know a way, I don't go into Orange. My squad fly Blue and there is never an issue getting in (thanks to the Crazies clamouring to get into Orange). We fly together and our panties never twist over caps.
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Host: You are now being ported to the other main arena. You will be at your same speed and AGL altitude over a front line friendly base with full ammo and takeoff selected fuel.
Accept? Decline?
OK Fester, which would you choose? Accept? Decline?
Anyone else?
wrongway
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I assume anyone else with experience in servers is also holding their head in their hands and sobbing quietly right now?
Yes, along with the coding that would be required.
ack-ack
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OK Fester, which would you choose? Accept? Decline?
Anyone else?
wrongway
A better question would be would you prefer to be teleported to a running war with half the amount of players or having to log off and potentially get locked out of the full server where your friends went.
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Yes, along with the coding that would be required.
ack-ack
Gosh, you're absolutely right!
HT should never have abandoned Warbirds and started AH because it was such an amount of work.
It's not easy - but the goal is to create something. Creating something takes hard work and pain.
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A better question would be would you prefer to be teleported to a running war with half the amount of players or having to log off and potentially get locked out of the full server where your friends went.
Are people still allowed to log into the original arena?
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A better question would be would you prefer to be teleported to a running war with half the amount of players or having to log off and potentially get locked out of the full server where your friends went.
this
if it simplifies it do not make it an accept or decline option. just port all dweebs the moment the after hours/split prime time main arenas go live.
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I don't mind the system they have now, though I think the times might need reconsidering. So, decline from me.
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Gosh, you're absolutely right!
HT should never have abandoned Warbirds and started AH because it was such an amount of work.
It's not easy - but the goal is to create something. Creating something takes hard work and pain.
Who said abandoned it? I just commented on the coding that it would take would be rather extensive and depending on the difficulty, could be the thing that keeps it from happening.
Also, I think Fester's idea while on paper might have some merits but in practice wouldn't work very well.
ack-ack
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Are people still allowed to log into the original arena?
As I said if a 400 player arena splits in half the result will be 2x200 player arenas that both can take new players with ease. Or switch sides.
As long as neither server is full and neither server is practically emty players should reasonably thinking be satisfied.
Then if numbers drop to 2x80 or something, more and more players will start to pack the larger server untill smaller dies off and the larger at some point grows back to split status.
You could even implement a minimum threshold that would boot the players on the 'losing' server to the larger one if the larger one has less than optimal amount of players.
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As I said if a 400 player arena splits in half the result will be 2x200 player arenas that both can take new players with ease. Or switch sides.
As long as neither server is full and neither server is practically emty players should reasonably thinking be satisfied.
Then if numbers drop to 2x80 or something, more and more players will start to pack the larger server untill smaller dies off and the larger at some point grows back to split status.
Ok, let's say 400 people are on, it splits into 2x200.
What happens when 150 of the people from the second arena just got plucked out of a great fight and log out of that arena and back into the primary arena because 'that's where teh gud fitez ar!'
Wiley.
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Start small;
HTC, please can we have a 'Refresh' button in the Lobby so that we don't have to log out and in to get updated arena numbers?
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Start small;
HTC, please can we have a 'Refresh' button in the Lobby so that we don't have to log out and in to get updated arena numbers?
Not to encourage a hijack but +1 to that.
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HTC, please can we have a 'Refresh' button in the Lobby so that we don't have to log out and in to get updated arena numbers?
+1 to this, but the teleporting thing strikes me as being just a tad looney.
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I was going to say!... First warp and now teleport? What is this? Star Trek? :rolleyes:
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Ok, let's say 400 people are on, it splits into 2x200.
What happens when 150 of the people from the second arena just got plucked out of a great fight and log out of that arena and back into the primary arena because 'that's where teh gud fitez ar!'
Wiley.
First of all you will never see a mass movement of 150 players. If you now have 8 targets in front of you and then you have 4 targets, you're not going to miss the other 4 on the other side. You will still be in the same spot on the map, the same fields will be on fire, your objective is still the same. You'd gain absolutely nothing by switching sides at that point. There wouldn't 'be' a 'better fight' on the 'other side' since it's the same exact status of the war with the almost same exact numbers of players on both sides.
Only difference would be that you would automatically be thrown to the same side with your squad members to avoid 'disconnecting' team members in middle of fight.
And to everyone horrified with the idea of teleporting: This is only going to happen after 200 players on average will join the server. That's going to take a looong time to happen. Furthermore if so happens that players like this so much that playerbase grows to 600, a third server can transparently be created using the same method. Then fourth, then fifth.
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I was going to say!... First warp and now teleport? What is this? Star Trek? :rolleyes:
TNG of thinking perhaps? :P
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It's not easy - but the goal is to create something. Creating something takes hard work and pain.
For what benefit exactly? HTC is a small company, so the many hours they would put into implementing this largely unnecessary system is time not spent updating old planes or researching and adding new planes. Do people really leave the game because of arena splits? Let's face it, if someone is unhappy that they can't fly with the squadmates due to the arena split, they aren't going to leave the game (and their squadmates) forever over it. They're just going to get upset and then log off but keep their subscriptions.
So from a business perspective, what's the benefit to all that hard work and pain?
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First of all you will never see a mass movement of 150 players.
Why not? They just saw half of their buddies disappear, including the goon that was about to drop troops, and the sky in front of them is now devoid of enemy aircraft. Why wouldn't they want to get back to that fight?
If you now have 8 targets in front of you and then you have 4 targets, you're not going to miss the other 4 on the other side. You will still be in the same spot on the map, the same fields will be on fire, your objective is still the same. You'd gain absolutely nothing by switching sides at that point. There wouldn't 'be' a 'better fight' on the 'other side' since it's the same exact status of the war with the almost same exact numbers of players on both sides.
Ok, I think I see where the disconnect is.
You're assuming an even distribution of people across the map on the server. Have you not noticed this is never, ever the case? You had 8 targets in front of you. They were all squaddies. They all switched at once. You now have zero (0) targets in front of you, because the server split. This isn't annoying?
The enemy horde you're moving in on was comprised of members of 3 squads and a half dozen single people. Now suddenly instead of 25 planes for you and your 15 friends to play with, you now have 6. More importantly, THEY now only have 6 on their side. This isn't annoying?
Even assuming your perfect ideal, where through some miracle 50% of the people from all sides in the local area disappear, the situation was you upped to defend an airbase with a dozen other guys against 30 hordelings. It goes from 30-12 to 15-6. 12 guys can fight their way out of a 30-12 a heck of a lot easier than 6 guys can fight their way out of 15 planes.
TNG of thinking perhaps? :P
Heh, funny. I loved TNG. I wouldn't call it groundbreaking or great, compared to TOS. It was more of a rehash of the formula that while decent, brought very little new to the table, and many who liked the old show found it vastly inferior. :p
And to everyone horrified with the idea of teleporting: This is only going to happen after 200 players on average will join the server. That's going to take a looong time to happen. Furthermore if so happens that players like this so much that playerbase grows to 600, a third server can transparently be created using the same method. Then fourth, then fifth.
Again, it reaches 200. It splits into 2x100. 75 of those guys log out of the second server and back into the first within the next 5 minutes. It doesn't matter why they did it, they did. What happens when 26 more guys come into the first arena?
Wiley.
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For what benefit exactly? HTC is a small company, so the many hours they would put into implementing this largely unnecessary system is time not spent updating old planes or researching and adding new planes.
These are totally irrelevant. We already have a large planeset, nobody's going to come or go over 1 new plane.
Do people really leave the game because of arena splits?
EVERY DAY. By the dozens at least if not more.
Let's face it, if someone is unhappy that they can't fly with the squadmates due to the arena split, they aren't going to leave the game (and their squadmates) forever over it. They're just going to get upset and then log off but keep their subscriptions.
Rofl listen to yourself. A paying customer is going to QUIT using your product over being UPSET about being denied of the use and you think it's not going to end up with cancellations? Hehehe, think again.
So from a business perspective, what's the benefit to all that hard work and pain?
The benefit is a seamlessly scaling server environment where the amount of players gets dynamically relocated as it grows or gets smaller.
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Why not? They just saw half of their buddies disappear, including the goon that was about to drop troops, and the sky in front of them is now devoid of enemy aircraft. Why wouldn't they want to get back to that fight?
Because the only difference they would see is switch in player numbers. Would you chase a goon to the other side and leave your squadmates behind? I wouldn't :D
You're assuming an even distribution of people across the map on the server. Have you not noticed this is never, ever the case? You had 8 targets in front of you. They were all squaddies. They all switched at once. You now have zero (0) targets in front of you, because the server split. This isn't annoying?
I don't care if the 262 I tried to kill disappeared as long as I don't have to log off and get denied gameplay with my squaddies in the new full server. The split is 100% better option nobody will care less about a couple cons discoing once a day. People logoff, can't get to new arena, QUIT playing. Every day.
The enemy horde you're moving in on was comprised of members of 3 squads and a half dozen single people. Now suddenly instead of 25 planes for you and your 15 friends to play with, you now have 6. More importantly, THEY now only have 6 on their side. This isn't annoying?
You prefer moving to the server with 20 players in total while the rest of your squad managed to get in before the cap?
Even assuming your perfect ideal, where through some miracle 50% of the people from all sides in the local area disappear, the situation was you upped to defend an airbase with a dozen other guys against 30 hordelings. It goes from 30-12 to 15-6. 12 guys can fight their way out of a 30-12 a heck of a lot easier than 6 guys can fight their way out of 15 planes.
Again, would you prefer to continue that fight uninterrupted or be forced to logoff and be blocked from joining with your friends?
Heh, funny. I loved TNG. I wouldn't call it groundbreaking or great, compared to TOS. It was more of a rehash of the formula that while decent, brought very little new to the table, and many who liked the old show found it vastly inferior. :p
Again, it reaches 200. It splits into 2x100. 75 of those guys log out of the second server and back into the first within the next 5 minutes. It doesn't matter why they did it, they did. What happens when 26 more guys come into the first arena?
Wiley.
That will not happen since 75 individual players will never have the common incentive to do so. Besides a split is only required when total number reaches around 400 there won't be a 2x100 arena untill numbers start to drop off-hours. And when that happens, it is 100% desireable for people to populate just one arena.
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I see no one will commit to saying that they would not choose to switch when asked. (duh)
Problems with poofing:
Different map(s) in arena you are being poofed into.
"...But I don't like that map."
You get poofed but your squadmate(S) didn't, or vice versa.
"...But I need to get into that arena to be with my squad."
Same problems, different implementation.
Essentially no one will willingly change. If they would, the "problem" we "have" now would be moot, (sorry Moot), as squads that really wanted to fly together would plan properly by going to the arena where they would all fit.
The simple solution is what we have now. Kick everyone and start over.
wrongway
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EVERY DAY. By the dozens at least if not more.
Any proof to back up your claims that dozens if not more are leaving the game every day? From your claim, AH would have been a ghost town by now.
ack-ack
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Because the only difference they would see is switch in player numbers.
Yeah. And a random number of the guys they can see disappear. Sometimes it's all the friendlies, sometimes it's all the enemy. The point is, you would never be able to trust what you're seeing, as it could change at any moment. If you don't see that as being completely abhorrent for gameplay, then I don't know what to say to you.
Would you chase a goon to the other side and leave your squadmates behind? I wouldn't :D
I meant friendly goon. They were just denied their attaboys and the pleasure of seeing the base change over to their country Now in their arena, the ack that goon was just going to beat coming back up has now popped, and they've lost momentum.
I don't care if the 262 I tried to kill disappeared as long as I don't have to log off and get denied gameplay with my squaddies in the new full server. The split is 100% better option nobody will care less about a couple cons discoing once a day. People logoff, can't get to new arena, QUIT playing. Every day.
Citation please. What Ack-Ack said.
You prefer moving to the server with 20 players in total while the rest of your squad managed to get in before the cap?
Again, would you prefer to continue that fight uninterrupted or be forced to logoff and be blocked from joining with your friends?
You're completely ignoring the fact that the supposedly 'uninterrupted fight' you are having just completely changed. You now have 0 enemy in front of you. ...This is an 'uninterrupted fight'?
That will not happen since 75 individual players will never have the common incentive to do so. Besides a split is only required when total number reaches around 400 there won't be a 2x100 arena untill numbers start to drop off-hours. And when that happens, it is 100% desireable for people to populate just one arena.
Whatever your cutoff point, 75, 150, whatever. That many people are never trying to change arenas at the same time? I wish, oh how I wish I could get Hitech to post here how many people are hammering Orange when the arenas are split trying to get into it that aren't in a squad. I would be willing to bet it's enough to cause your arena to want to split again.
You've just given them the incentive. The entire battle they were in just completely changed, either putting them at a sudden disadvantage, or suddenly giving them a massive numbers advantage that killed the fight because there aren't any interested enemy now that they've got a horde in the area. They just got shot down because half their friendlies disappeared. They're going to be angry, and if they're not angry enough to quit for the night, will want to go back to the 'good arena' where they believe the situation they had before will still be there.
I'm not saying it's logical, I am saying it's what will happen.
Wiley.
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I see no one will commit to saying that they would not choose to switch when asked. (duh)
Problems with poofing:
Different map(s) in arena you are being poofed into.
"...But I don't like that map."
You are not even reading what was written. Running copy of the MA means same map, same fields taken, same state of war. Only thing players will notice is a change in numbers.
You get poofed but your squadmate(S) didn't, or vice versa.
"...But I need to get into that arena to be with my squad."
Again you're not bothering to even read before complaining. Move can be made in a way that squads are split squad at a time.
Essentially no one will willingly change. If they would, the "problem" we "have" now would be moot, (sorry Moot), as squads that really wanted to fly together would plan properly by going to the arena where they would all fit.
People play a game. They do not play this game to have set dates on where and what time to play. They expect to be able to play when they need to and (usually) who they want with i.e. their squaddies. Currently if someone joins after a cap has reached he's blocked from joining all the friends and is left with 3 options: Play alone (yeeee), login/logoff untill a slot is open (yeeeee) or decide not to play at all (yeeee @ subscriptions).
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These are totally irrelevant. We already have a large planeset, nobody's going to come or go over 1 new plane.
Really? I'd say plenty of people would leave over developmental stagnation. Like, say, no new planes for two years while they implement the painful coding scheme you propose.
EVERY DAY. By the dozens at least if not more.
You're full of it. There'd be nobody left at that rate. I don't have access to HTC's numbers, but I can absolutely say you're pulling that one out of thin air.
Rofl listen to yourself. A paying customer is going to QUIT using your product over being UPSET about being denied of the use and you think it's not going to end up with cancellations? Hehehe, think again.
They're upset because they occasionally can't play with their squad in a social game. So their solution to this pain is to... leave the game and the squad? That's not a rational solution to that problem.
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You are not even reading what was written. Running copy of the MA means same map, same fields taken, same state of war. Only thing players will notice is a change in numbers.
So you want the same old stale maps on both arenas after the split?
(Yet another complaint about the split, not mine)
Again you're not bothering to even read before complaining. Move can be made in a way that squads are split squad at a time.
Your squad is in an arena "with no action". Or, the other half of your friends are in a different arena?
(more complaints, not mine)
People play a game. They do not play this game to have set dates on where and what time to play. They expect to be able to play when they need to and (usually) who they want with i.e. their squaddies. Currently if someone joins after a cap has reached he's blocked from joining all the friends and is left with 3 options: Play alone (yeeee), login/logoff untill a slot is open (yeeeee) or decide not to play at all (yeeee @ subscriptions).
A group of individuals with free will to get together where they can get together but choose not to? Whose fault is that?
Who said "Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance"?
The "I can't fly with my squad" has to be the most ridiculous whine there is. A squad can fly together if they choose to.
wrongway
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Yeah. And a random number of the guys they can see disappear. Sometimes it's all the friendlies, sometimes it's all the enemy. The point is, you would never be able to trust what you're seeing, as it could change at any moment. If you don't see that as being completely abhorrent for gameplay, then I don't know what to say to you.
I don't know what's blocking your mind. First of all you can't trust ANYTHING you see even now! People can have an involuntary disco at any given moment. So can you.
Second of all the arena is not going to split all the time. It will happen once or twice in 24 hours most likely. You get more network related warps than that!
I meant friendly goon. They were just denied their attaboys and the pleasure of seeing the base change over to their country Now in their arena, the ack that goon was just going to beat coming back up has now popped, and they've lost momentum.
Ack is not going to pop any more than it was going to pop on the running copy with same exact state of war. So your goon just had a disco big deal never happened before?
Citation please. What Ack-Ack said.
I'm speaking to 1 squad through TS and 3 squads through common finnish vox. Every day when off hours shuts down only from my friends 3-4 quit playing at the very moment. Sometimes me included. You hear 'see ya' 'can't bother to log on anymore' or 'I got blocked oh well cya later'.
You're completely ignoring the fact that the supposedly 'uninterrupted fight' you are having just completely changed. You now have 0 enemy in front of you. ...This is an 'uninterrupted fight'?
Compared to having to logoff to a totally different map and start from 0 again yeah that's pretty uninterrupted! You've never had an enemy disco in front of you?
Whatever your cutoff point, 75, 150, whatever. That many people are never trying to change arenas at the same time? I wish, oh how I wish I could get Hitech to post here how many people are hammering Orange when the arenas are split trying to get into it that aren't in a squad. I would be willing to bet it's enough to cause your arena to want to split again.
Again you're not understanding the original text lol! Squads remain on same side = NO incentive to move. Both servers are equally populated = NO incentive to move anywhere. Tell me, what would make all those people to switch servers when nothing is different on other side?
You've just given them the incentive. The entire battle they were in just completely changed, either putting them at a sudden disadvantage, or suddenly giving them a massive numbers advantage that killed the fight because there aren't any interested enemy now that they've got a horde in the area. They just got shot down because half their friendlies disappeared.
OMG the enemy will have 50% removed too unless and only unless they were all in same squad. And if that happens, your squad will also remain intact and can in fact be the winning party in the 'switch'. Will you change servers and leave your squadmates behind or move to another field instead to reorganize?
You really think quitting the whole game and starting from nothing is better than a temporary change in numbers? I'm lost from words.
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Really? I'd say plenty of people would leave over developmental stagnation. Like, say, no new planes for two years while they implement the painful coding scheme you propose.
Are you intimately involved in software development to say such bold things? Where did you pull the 2 years? LOL!
You're full of it. There'd be nobody left at that rate. I don't have access to HTC's numbers, but I can absolutely say you're pulling that one out of thin air.
I said people quit playing, didn't say quit subscribing the very moment. But they will as discontent grows.
They're upset because they occasionally can't play with their squad in a social game. So their solution to this pain is to... leave the game and the squad? That's not a rational solution to that problem.
Regularly, not occasionally.
Play in LWOH, arena closes -> either quit early or risk getting left out of cap.
Play in LWO, get disco -> cap stops you from returning to your friends
Play in LWO, get a CTD -> cap stops you from returning to your friends
Double irritation from getting discoed, then not being able to return at all because of an artificial cap. Yeah, that eats on you.
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I don't know what's blocking your mind. First of all you can't trust ANYTHING you see even now! People can have an involuntary disco at any given moment. So can you.
Second of all the arena is not going to split all the time. It will happen once or twice in 24 hours most likely. You get more network related warps than that!
Dude... You're basing all your arguments on 'If everything goes exactly right and people do what I want.' I can see by this line of thought you have never, ever designed a system that was to be used by people.
Ack is not going to pop any more than it was going to pop on the running copy with same exact state of war. So your goon just had a disco big deal never happened before?
Yup. It was frustrating. Now you're proposing having this kind of thing happen by intent at least once a day, to EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE ARENA at the same moment. Dude, that is not 'uninterrupted'. That is not negligible. It will mightily piss people off. I have never seen an entire squad disappear in front of me. I rarely see a disco.
I'm speaking to 1 squad through TS and 3 squads through common finnish vox. Every day when off hours shuts down only from my friends 3-4 quit playing at the very moment. Sometimes me included. You hear 'see ya' 'can't bother to log on anymore' or 'I got blocked oh well cya later'.
3-4 of you? Oh. The other 2-300 people who log back in and go about their business apparently disagree.
Again you're not understanding the original text lol! Squads remain on same side = NO incentive to move.
Wrong. The entire enemy force they were heading toward just disappeared. Why is that NOT an incentive to move?
Both servers are equally populated = NO incentive to move anywhere. Tell me, what would make all those people to switch servers when nothing is different on other side?
The other server says 'Orange' beside it, for starters. Again, the entire enemy force you were just engaged with just vanished. How is that not an incentive to move?
OMG the enemy will have 50% removed too unless and only unless they were all in same squad. And if that happens, your squad will also remain intact and can in fact be the winning party in the 'switch'. Will you change servers and leave your squadmates behind or move to another field instead to reorganize?
You really think quitting the whole game and starting from nothing is better than a temporary change in numbers? I'm lost from words.
Yes, because once you're in that arena, things aren't going to drastically change at random.
Wiley.
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So you want the same old stale maps on both arenas after the split?
(Yet another complaint about the split, not mine)
Nothing stops people from winning the war regardless of the fact. Unlike now that maps get stuck when they are forcefully closed.
Your squad is in an arena "with no action". Or, the other half of your friends are in a different arena?
(more complaints, not mine)
Again shows you're not even reading what you're complaining about. How can two equally big servers have one side without action?
A group of individuals with free will to get together where they can get together but choose not to? Whose fault is that?
ROFL you're funny. I bet you're the first one always to populate the empty server aren't you? OMG why not? By your own admission there's no reason to go to the empty side - unless you're bish and love to milkrun.
The "I can't fly with my squad" has to be the most ridiculous whine there is. A squad can fly together if they choose to.
wrongway
Your feebly based attempts of arguments give more reason for ridicule. A squad that's already playing on the max capped field can't be expected to quit what they're doing and switch sides over 1 or 2 members. Get a grip.
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Dude... You're basing all your arguments on 'If everything goes exactly right and people do what I want.' I can see by this line of thought you have never, ever designed a system that was to be used by people.
LOL quite the contrary I'm afraid. You fail to picture the overall flow of play and nitpick on meaningless details. You're stating flabbergastingly exaggerated things like 'couldn't trust anything I see anymore' based on 1 microsecond event once a day.
Yup. It was frustrating. Now you're proposing having this kind of thing happen by intent at least once a day, to EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE ARENA at the same moment. Dude, that is not 'uninterrupted'. That is not negligible. It will mightily piss people off. I have never seen an entire squad disappear in front of me. I rarely see a disco.
And yet you see a whole server get shut down every day right now, have to change servers and start from literally nothing waiting 20-30 minutes for the whole war to start over again and thats somehow better? Mmmkay. I'm even leaving the getting left out part there :D
3-4 of you? Oh. The other 2-300 people who log back in and go about their business apparently disagree.
That 3-4 is about 20% of the people typically logged on from my squad at that time. You're AGAIN failing to see the big picture over small detail which you hang on - this time not understanding it's not only my squad that it's happening on. :D
Wrong. The entire enemy force they were heading toward just disappeared. Why is that NOT an incentive to move?
Because a) it will not disappear entirely and b) situation is no different on the other side.
The other server says 'Orange' beside it, for starters. Again, the entire enemy force you were just engaged with just vanished. How is that not an incentive to move?
Again, read the above. You'd have to be extremely unlucky to fight only 1 squad at that time.
Yes, because once you're in that arena, things aren't going to drastically change at random.
LOL! I mean I really LOL now. You say random to an event that's going to happen VERY rarely. You say drastic to an event that's similar to every day occasional network hiccup from player front end.
You prefer to have to quit playing for some time, log back on and wait for dozens of minutes to arena to repopulate and war get going again. You prefer to get occasionally blocked from joining the same server with your friends.
And you don't call THAT drastic? :bhead
Players disappearing is a come and go once event. Getting left out of server due to cap is rest of the day event that will continue to get you every time you log off and want to come back - even if you manage to get in at first.
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it might be keeping up with the joneses but what ive described is done often in other games. phasing, instancing zoning etc etc its very common.
matter of fact this whole server shut down thing takes the 24/7 war attraction and tosses it out the window because it isnt 1 war 24/7 its 3 wars going 12/7. this affects people who run bombers more than any other group. it also affects people streaking (ie rearming and seeing how long they can survive in one plane)
HTC added a b29 and got me interested in the bomber game and the bomber game due to its long missions deep behind enemy territory has problems with arena shutdowns that have to be planend for by not flying bombers when an arena reset is and hour or less away.
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Your feebly based attempts of arguments give more reason for ridicule. A squad that's already playing on the max capped field can't be expected to quit what they're doing and switch sides over 1 or 2 members. Get a grip.
Why not?
Of course flying with the squad isn't that important.
I mean, that is the whine, right? Flying with the squad? Or is it, "we're doing something and can't stop"?
wrongway
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Why not?
Of course flying with the squad isn't that important.
I mean, that is the whine, right? Flying with the squad? Or is it, "we're doing something and can't stop"?
wrongway
Stop digging that hole for yourself, please lol. If you fail to see how the group can be important for the individual but the individual is not important for the group I guess you have a lot to learn still.
I want to see your squad moving where ever you happen to be at a given moment. Especially when that side happens to be empty.
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Stop digging that hole for yourself, please lol. If you fail to see how the group can be important for the individual but the individual is not important for the group I guess you have a lot to learn still.
I want to see your squad moving where ever you happen to be at a given moment. Especially when that side happens to be empty.
I'm sure they would if I asked.
Obviously yours won't.
:banana:
Would you move for a squaddie?
wrongway
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I'm sure they would if I asked.
Obviously yours won't.
:banana:
Would you move for a squaddie?
wrongway
I have a suggestion then. Next time the large arena gets capped you and your entire squad will move to the empty arena so I can get in with my friends. Deal? I see it's not a problem for YOU Sir <S> your help is greatly appreciated!
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LOL quite the contrary I'm afraid. You fail to picture the overall flow of play and nitpick on meaningless details. You're stating flabbergastingly exaggerated things like 'couldn't trust anything I see anymore' based on 1 microsecond event once a day.
Ok, I'm starting to believe you're being deliberately obtuse here.
First of all, you're assuming that once 400 people appear and the arena splits, they're all going to stay where you put them. Why would they, when the fight they were just in the middle of broke up?
I'm going to keep this simple for illustration's sake. First of all, let's give you the (HIGHLY unlikely) scenario that numbers are evenly distributed over the three chess pieces. Let's also say it's edit:(300 player max, splits into 100 and 100 and 100). The actual values don't really matter, double the scale to your 400, double everything.
Let's say you've got 3 fights going on.
Arena 1:
Fight A:
75 Bish vs 25 Rooks. The Bish are conga lining trying to take a field. The rooks have 25 guys interested in defending it. It's basically stalemated because the Bish are trickling in, and the Rooks are having a good day. The Rook forces are comprised of 3 squads.
Fight B:
75 Rooks vs 50 Knights. "Pointless" furball going on, much fun being had by all.
Fight C:
50 Knights vs the Bish auto ack. The other 25 Bish are afk in tower or running around porking undefended ords, whatever.
The arena split occurs. The arena drops 50% of the people from each country to go into the second arena.
Now you've got:
Arena 1 Fight A: 38 Bish vs 25 Rooks who were holding their own against the Bish with double the numbers.
Arena 2 Fight A: 37 Bish vs 0 Rooks because those 3 squads were selected to stay in the first arena. Are the Bish having fun now?
Arena 1 Fight B: 25 Rooks vs 25 Knights. It's now become an even battle, hooray.
Arena 2 Fight B: 50 Rooks vs 25 Knights. Relative odds against the 25 knights have now doubled. They get schwacked and lose interest due to being outnumbered.
Arena 1 Fight C: 25 Knights vs the Bish Auto ack.
Arena 2 Fight C: 25 Knights vs the Bish Auto ack.
Now, with those players seeing this, let's see who all is still happy. Fight A in Arena 1 is still going on ok Rooks are holding their own. Fight B in Arena 1 is dead even, should be a good fight. Both Arenas have people continuing on in Fight C against the other country's auto ack.
Now let's look at Arena 2. Fight A has been completely killed, 37 Bish are going to want to get back to 'the good arena' to get back to the fun fight they were having. Fight B just got shut down because the Knights were overrun, didn't want to up into a vulch, and want back into the first arena where the good fight was. Half the Rooks are now bored because they're not in the mood to fight undefended, they also want back into Arena 1.
So, they log back into Arena 1. Yes, I know, 'They wouldn't do that.' Under the scenario I've just outlined, why the heck wouldn't they? They were having fun where they were, the situation changed and killed their fight. The cure for that is to get back to the 'good arena' in their minds.
So now we have:
Arena 1 Fight A: 75 Bish vs 25 Rooks
Arena 2 Fight A: 0 Bish vs 0 Rooks
Arena 1 Fight B: 50 Rooks vs 50 Knights
Arena 2 Fight B: 25 Rooks vs 0 Knights
Arena 1 Fight C: 25 Knights vs the Bish Auto ack, 12 Bish doing their own thing
Arena 2 Fight C: 25 Knights vs the Bish Auto ack, 13 Bish doing their own thing
And now it's after suppertime, 75 more people log into Arena 1.
Time for another split, yeah? That took less than an hour, and already we're going to divide arena 1 up again? And this is 'uninterrupted gameplay'...
And that's assuming no side outnumbers the other. An outnumbered side getting broken up further is just going to be, frankly, completely unacceptable.
And yet you see a whole server get shut down every day right now, have to change servers and start from literally nothing waiting 20-30 minutes for the whole war to start over again and thats somehow better? Mmmkay. I'm even leaving the getting left out part there :D
That 3-4 is about 20% of the people typically logged on from my squad at that time. You're AGAIN failing to see the big picture over small detail which you hang on - this time not understanding it's not only my squad that it's happening on. :D
Dude, you're the one not looking at the overall effect, not me. :D
Because a) it will not disappear entirely and b) situation is no different on the other side.
Again, read the above. You'd have to be extremely unlucky to fight only 1 squad at that time.
Squads tend to fight in the same area. If a squad is working an area, they're all going to disappear at once.
LOL! I mean I really LOL now. You say random to an event that's going to happen VERY rarely. You say drastic to an event that's similar to every day occasional network hiccup from player front end.
I've just illustrated that there is precisely NOTHING stopping it from happening repeatedly. You're assuming every best case scenario possible. That won't happen.
You prefer to have to quit playing for some time, log back on and wait for dozens of minutes to arena to repopulate and war get going again. You prefer to get occasionally blocked from joining the same server with your friends.
And you don't call THAT drastic? :bhead
It's a damn sight simpler than your solution, and a lot more controllable by the players.
Players disappearing is a come and go once event.
ONLY assuming they stay where they're put. That is laughably optimistic.
Getting left out of server due to cap is rest of the day event that will continue to get you every time you log off and want to come back - even if you manage to get in at first.
No it isn't. I've never been locked out of Orange for more than 20 minutes.
Wiley.
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Are you intimately involved in software development to say such bold things? Where did you pull the 2 years? LOL!
I made it up, just like you did with the magical dozens of people who quit AH every single day. I bet I'm closer to right than you are.
I said people quit playing, didn't say quit subscribing the very moment. But they will as discontent grows.
HiTech himself said that arena splitting increased subscriptions. Clearly he doesn't have access to the same numbers you do, or he'd no doubt change his tune.
Double irritation from getting discoed, then not being able to return at all because of an artificial cap. Yeah, that eats on you.
It no doubt sucks, but it's not enough for you to quit subscribing. Or, apparently, for most people to quit subscribing. Can it be better? Possibly, and I'm sure HTC is considering alternatives that won't require months (or years) of manpower to implement. I think many here exaggerate the negatives of the arena split. The idea that someone would simply quit the game and a squad full of friends because they occasionally can't fly with their squad full of friends is laughable and irrational.
Speaking of laughable, you can stop with the lolspam every time you respond to someone. Try a post without it. I dare you.
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Time for another split, yeah? That took less than an hour, and already we're going to divide arena 1 up again? And this is 'uninterrupted gameplay'...
A split would only happen when total number is at 400 or more. You're clinging on worst case scenario once in a million issues that will never in reality happen. You have to think of better arguments than that.
And that's assuming no side outnumbers the other. An outnumbered side getting broken up further is just going to be, frankly, completely unacceptable.
All sides get equally broken up, nothing will change.
Dude, you're the one not looking at the overall effect, not me. :D
I'm sorry, no. You're totally clinging to every negative aspect you can think of and fail to see the huge benefit.
Squads tend to fight in the same area. If a squad is working an area, they're all going to disappear at once.
True and this would be a problem indeed if there was 100 player squads. Now you see a local change that's temporary at most. Arena is like a sea - where ever a hole is formed it's soon filled with new players.
I've just illustrated that there is precisely NOTHING stopping it from happening repeatedly. You're assuming every best case scenario possible. That won't happen.
I'm sorry but once you have two practically equal servers nobody will have any reason to switch to specifically either side. Furthermore the fact that your entire squad now resides on the new side will 99.999% surely keep everyone there. If a squad decides to change to the other similar side, it's a testament to their lack of intellect, nothing else lol!
It's a damn sight simpler than your solution, and a lot more controllable by the players.
It's current implementation has created 100 pages of discussion already. Players are anything but indifferent to the daily shutdowns and being booted from full servers only to find out they cant return anymore.
ONLY assuming they stay where they're put. That is laughably optimistic.
What's laughable is your false assumption that large amounts of people would for some imaginary reason want to switch sides when they see no difference in the new or old side after the split.
No it isn't. I've never been locked out of Orange for more than 20 minutes.
If your idea of fun is to keep logging off and on for 20 minutes it's your problem. Most people quit before wasting their time like that.
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I made it up, just like you did with the magical dozens of people who quit AH every single day. I bet I'm closer to right than you are.
Trust me, your not :)
HiTech himself said that arena splitting increased subscriptions. Clearly he doesn't have access to the same numbers you do, or he'd no doubt change his tune.
HiTech if anyone knows that the split fixed one problem but created another. It's a temporary fix.
It no doubt sucks, but it's not enough for you to quit subscribing.
Are you sure? I wouldn't be.
Speaking of laughable, you can stop with the lolspam every time you respond to someone. Try a post without it. I dare you.
LOL! No way dude.
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Trust me, your not :)
I'm still waiting for a source for your numbers. Until then, it's just hot air meant to bolster your clearly biased point of view. Well you know what I heard? I heard that after the arena split, Aces High was gaining literally hundreds of subscribers per day who more than offset the losses from the arena split. True story!
HiTech if anyone knows that the split fixed one problem but created another. It's a temporary fix.
Created what problem? Is this a show stopping problem? Is this a problem that HTC can only address with convoluted, complicated "pain?" Or would something more elegant (and cheap) work? Realize that any solution to any problem will make someone unhappy. It's just that in this case, the unhappy person is you.
Are you sure? I wouldn't be.
By all means, prove me wrong.
LOL! No way dude.
Way.
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Trust me, your not :)
HiTech if anyone knows that the split fixed one problem but created another. It's a temporary fix.
Are you sure? I wouldn't be.
LOL! No way dude.
Temporary fix that has been in place for 3 or 4 years?
HiTech
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A split would only happen when total number is at 400 or more. You're clinging on worst case scenario once in a million issues that will never in reality happen. You have to think of better arguments than that.
You see those three battles I described every night, on one front or another. Explain if it went that way why they wouldn't act as I described. It's ok, I know you can't.
All sides get equally broken up, nothing will change.
I just illustrated how an 'equal' breaking up can completely unbalance what's going on in the arena. You've shown nothing that disproves that. You've instead given an assertion that 'it wouldn't happen', and basically clapped your hands over your ears and repeatedly shouted 'No No No No No'.
I'm sorry, no. You're totally clinging to every negative aspect you can think of and fail to see the huge benefit.
No I'm not. The 3 battles I just described are going on every night, country names may change. I've given you a specific example that makes your system fall apart. A system like this needs to be able to deal with contingencies. If it's this easy to show how it could be broken, it's not a good system, Ripley. The situation I described above is not uncommon, the peoples' reactions are not uncommon to what goes on in the arenas, your handwaving aside.
True and this would be a problem indeed if there was 100 player squads. Now you see a local change that's temporary at most. Arena is like a sea - where ever a hole is formed it's soon filled with new players.
And where are they going to log into? The first server.
What's laughable is your false assumption that large amounts of people would for some imaginary reason want to switch sides when they see no difference in the new or old side after the split.
I just showed you a scenario that happens every night. Explain why those people wouldn't be unhappy when their fight vanished before their eyes. That is not an imaginary reason, Ripley. Then explain why the effect wouldn't snowball as people relogged back to the first arena.
Wiley.
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Temporary fix that has been in place for 3 or 4 years?
tempus fugit... ;)
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Temporary fix that has been in place for 3 or 4 years?
HiTech
Temporary can be stretched I guess. So are you saying in your opinnion the current setup is flawless and no development is going to be made on it?
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You see those three battles I described every night, on one front or another. Explain if it went that way why they wouldn't act as I described. It's ok, I know you can't.
Your examples were based on worst case scenarios you imagined. Zero truth.
I just illustrated how an 'equal' breaking up can completely unbalance what's going on in the arena. You've shown nothing that disproves that. You've instead given an assertion that 'it wouldn't happen', and basically clapped your hands over your ears and repeatedly shouted 'No No No No No'.
Your example had no basis in any reality.
No I'm not. The 3 battles I just described are going on every night, country names may change. I've given you a specific example that makes your system fall apart. A system like this needs to be able to deal with contingencies. If it's this easy to show how it could be broken, it's not a good system, Ripley. The situation I described above is not uncommon, the peoples' reactions are not uncommon to what goes on in the arenas, your handwaving aside.
A single battle will soon be replaced with another. A whole server closing isn't.
And where are they going to log into? The first server.
When you have two 200 player servers to choose from, what makes you pick one or another? The only motivation is if theres large number indifference or your squaddies are on one side.
I just showed you a scenario that happens every night. Explain why those people wouldn't be unhappy when their fight vanished before their eyes. That is not an imaginary reason, Ripley. Then explain why the effect wouldn't snowball as people relogged back to the first arena.
Wiley.
It's 100% imaginary as AH at its current state never develops two equally full arenas, just two empty arenas that start to get populated from scratch. If you have a pool with 20 naked women and 2 naked women, which one are you going to jump to? How about two pools both filled with 20 naked women? Or will you run away? :D
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Your examples were based on worst case scenarios you imagined. Zero truth.
So you're saying every battle in the arena is even? Sides are always even? Cool! I must be imagining it when one side outnumbers the other 3:1 in a sector and my perk multiplier goes above 1.5.
When you have two 200 player servers to choose from, what makes you pick one or another? The only motivation is if theres large number indifference or your squaddies are on one side.
People pick the top one. That's been shown time and again in this game.
It's 100% imaginary
As is your argument. People don't act rationally here, you can see that time and again if you just log into one of the Main Arenas. You're positing a system that requires the people to stay where they are completely of their own accord. That won't happen, I'm sorry, but it won't.
just two empty arenas that start to get populated from scratch. If you have a pool with 20 naked women and 2 naked women, which one are you going to jump to? How about two pools both filled with 20 naked women? Or will you run away? :D
It's ok, Ripley. I accept your concession. I won't bother refuting your idea further, as I've already shown it's a demonstrably bad idea, your irrelevant handwaving aside, anyone who realizes people rarely do what you want them to can see why it won't work. Cheers. :aok
Wiley.
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I have a suggestion then. Next time the large arena gets capped you and your entire squad will move to the empty arena so I can get in with my friends. Deal? I see it's not a problem for YOU Sir <S> your help is greatly appreciated!
So the answer is no, you would not move to join a squad mate in an open arena.
wrongway
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Wouldn't it be easier for the coading involved and the subsiquent forum complaint fests if you got a simple "accept or decline" message that ports you to the tower in the new arena or dumps you out of the game?
What is more important to many players in the face of the fact that the arenas will change over to the late night arena?
1. Yes, that it never happens in the first place and kills their enjoyment. That Hitech goes back to ONE arena forever and forever.
2. Have a simple one click vehical to port you along with all of your friends?
3. Knowing the simple vehical is porting enough players to have action to join into at the destination?
Over the last month I've stayed on late for the change over. Sometimes quite a few players reenter the new arena and the fun picks back up. Many other times my own squad mates have said they would see me there and never log back in. Along with that the late night arena never really seems to repopulate back to the numbers who were playing just a few minutes earlier. This last sentance is a perceptual observation. But, the observation in itself shows a lessening of what I wanted to perceive in the "FUN" I was seeking. I venture it is an effect many experience during the arena change.
Ask yourselves just how much "Gamus Interruptus" pulls the cork on your enthusiasm. Interruption of the time and emotional capitol you invest into your personal enjoyment is a tangable quantity which can be observed, measured, and influenced by external sources. At times many of you vote your "Gamus Interruptus" by not choosing to enter the new arena. That is a predictable response to the sudden stoppage of your brains enjoyment of it's "FUN" chemicals. That sudden feeling of mild depression and lack of insparation when the plug gets pulled.
A way to lessen this is by the presence of a simple future "FUN" expectation choice. A popup that gives you two simple choices which yourself and your friends can respond to as a "FUN" seeking group. It gives you control over some amount of the lost "FUN" expectation by knowing you can click yes and be in the new tower with all of your freinds.
It may not seem rational to quit out of the game in the simplicty of the arena choice menu and using your mouse to click back into the late night arena. When the disconnect GUI pops up and boots you from the game, it was not your choice to get booted from your "FUN". In essence the game is rejecting you. You cannot be blamed for responding by leaving for the night. You paid your $14.95. A simple popup giving you the choice of moving directly to the new arena or being ejected in it's simplicity is very powerful because you do not perceive the game rejecting you. Now you have the choice to leave on your terms or, seek more "FUN".
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this new feature could be added for transitions to after hours and for transitions to blue and orange and titanic teusday main arenas to eliminate all transition problems. making the move to the new arena could be toggled as a accept decline window or somthing as well.
the buff pilots would like it. you could port squads en mass to either arena whichever needed a block of pilots.
its pretty seamless. might take abit of Coad though.
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complex? hard to coad? so is a realistic ww2 flight/combat sim but ht did that so heres a technical curveball.
1. coaded to port only when new arena opens. no ones going to be at the enemies bases yet anyway.
2. if you accept the port you get landed credit on your current sortie and your sortie after the port is new. or you could perhaps null out the previous sortie and have it not count or scored at all the way it happens with current host connection lost sorties when the server closes.
3. you would not have a choice where you get ported. its all the needs of the arena.
4. it theoretically can be coaded to have groups of pilots by squad name ported to the same arenas numbers permitting.
5. none of this is neccessary. however the biggest group arena switches hurt is the long range strat targetting buff crowd. having an option to port back to a starting point would make it less frustrating.
see this here? while i think it's kinda weird......at least he is posting an idea....not just crying..... :aok
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So you're saying every battle in the arena is even? Sides are always even? Cool! I must be imagining it when one side outnumbers the other 3:1 in a sector and my perk multiplier goes above 1.5.
You're pretty unbelievable. A 50% split does not alter the balance of the arena by definition. A split will occur only when each side has minimum of 200 players, single squads don't mean diddly squat.
You're trying desperately to dig up 'examples' of scenarios where 'fight 1' has no defenders left by a bizarre coincidence of a fight consisting of only squad members that are all relocated :D and at the same time at the same arena 'fight 2' would have ALL the rooks in one place and nobody would move to defend the now empty field in the by definition impossible event of all squads moving away. Just one example how you destroy your own case.
So are you saying that right now when a field gets NOE attacked and nobody is already there, attackers end up fighting an empty field? Your examples seem to include the small inconvenience of nobody moving to other fields at any time :)
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So the answer is no, you would not move to join a squad mate in an open arena.
wrongway
You're missing the real question. It's not about moving 1 player from the occupied side, but exactly the opposite.
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Ugh... didn't... want... to... reply... but nope... gotta do it.
You're trying desperately to dig up 'examples' of scenarios where 'fight 1' has no defenders left by a bizarre coincidence of a fight consisting of only squad members that are all relocated :D
Why couldn't it happen? The arena is taking 50% of the people that are in it away, and keeping squads together. 3 squads fighting in an area is not an uncommon scenario. What is preventing it from happening? Under your system, 50% of the people from each country go away, and squads are kept together. That battle satisfies those two conditions.
and at the same time at the same arena
There is only one arena, where else are they going to be?
'fight 2' would have ALL the rooks in one place and nobody would move to defend the now empty field
Because of an arena split, the fight they were just involved in evaporated in front of their eyes. Are you saying their first reaction is going to be 'find another fight' versus 'go back to the good one they were just having fun in'?
in the by definition impossible event of all squads moving away. Just one example how you destroy your own case.
Why is it by definition impossible? Please enlighten me.
You're pretty unbelievable. A 50% split does not alter the balance of the arena by definition.
Nope, but it can sure play havoc with what's going on in different areas of the map, which is all people are looking at when they're fighting. Your assumption is when those local imbalances occur, people will go, 'Gee, I'm going to go find another fight now.' instead of the far more likely 'WTF? Where did the enemy go? ...oh, the arena split. Right. Orange is where the good fights are. I'm going to log back in there.'
A split will occur only when each side has minimum of 200 players, single squads don't mean diddly squat.
Well, why not save all the coding and just have 1 arena, since 600 players on at once never happens. :aok
Wiley.
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Ugh... didn't... want... to... reply... but nope... gotta do it.
Why couldn't it happen? The arena is taking 50% of the people that are in it away, and keeping squads together. 3 squads fighting in an area is not an uncommon scenario. What is preventing it from happening? Under your system, 50% of the people from each country go away, and squads are kept together. That battle satisfies those two conditions.
A fight consisting of only squad members and all 3 of them ending up to other side despite only 50% of squads are moved? Astronomically far fetched.
There is only one arena, where else are they going to be?
After the split duh
Because of an arena split, the fight they were just involved in evaporated in front of their eyes. Are you saying their first reaction is going to be 'find another fight' versus 'go back to the good one they were just having fun in'?
Oh right so you think right now when ppl stop upping a capped field and another field gets attacked, nobody will move to defend? Really? :D
Youre constantly forgetting that people would just see enemies disappear as if friendlies did them away the traditional way. You think theyd land, log off and move to other side just to see the fight already moved on there too? :)
Why is it by definition impossible? Please enlighten me.
Because only half of the squads move. Would be very unlikely to all move away at once. And the fights almost never contain only squad members or even more rarely members of only 1 squad. The more variance the less likely it is to see a shift in balance. A single fight typically consists of members of 5-6 different squads and non sqd members mixed up. Small fights can be 1 squad but get a grip its 1 time a day event that is fixed by moving to next field for crying out loud.
And even if they did wth one FIGHT vs shutdown of the Whole arena???
Nope, but it can sure play havoc with what's going on in different areas of the map, which is all people are looking at when they're fighting. Your assumption is when those local imbalances occur, people will go, 'Gee, I'm going to go find another fight now.' instead of the far more likely 'WTF? Where did the enemy go? ...oh, the arena split. Right. Orange is where the good fights are. I'm going to log back in there.'
You dont get it lol! With an even split no side will have a "better" fight. Your way of thinking is solidly stuck on the current setup where the two arenas have a totally different numbers and state of war. Im sorry but it seems you do not know how to think out of the box.
Well, why not save all the coding and just have 1 arena, since 600 players on at once never happens. :aok
Wiley.
The last quote sums it up. Only 2 sides to a split - ive repeated the 400 treshold 5 times already and you still missed the Mark.
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A fight consisting of only squad members and all 3 of them ending up to other side despite only 50% of squads are moved? Astronomically far fetched.
'Astronomical'? Hardly, Ripley. Ok, it doesn't even have to be all squaddies. Say 10 of them are individuals. What's preventing all 10 of them from being moved to the second arena? Answer? 'It's unlikely'. Go to any system designer anywhere, Ripley. Find out how far 'Oh, that's unlikely to happen' gets with them. If it can happen, it has to be accounted for.
Oh right so you think right now when ppl stop upping a capped field and another field gets attacked, nobody will move to defend? Really? :D
That's not what happened, though. The entire enemy force just vanished in front of them. They know they're still doing their thing in Arena 1. Why are they not going to go back there?
Because only half of the squads move. Would be very unlikely to all move away at once.
I reiterate, unlikely != impossible. If it happens, what are people going to do? Answer, go to the arena they just left. There's nothing stopping them.
You dont get it lol! With an even split no side will have a "better" fight.
I just showed it kill 2 fights. Your system does nothing to prevent those circumstances from happening. There is no more to say to that.
Your way of thinking is solidly stuck on the current setup where the two arenas have a totally different numbers and state of war. Im sorry but it seems you do not know how to think out of the box.
No it isn't. I'm envisioning the arena as it looks on any given night, with local number imbalances across all fronts. Your way of thinking is assuming that all numbers are equal in every battle on the map, and that after the split, through sheer luck, both sides will have retained enough people in all areas to continue the fight they were involved in, and people will be ok with it. The shortsighted optimism is staggering. Again, go to a system designer, ask him how far 'it's unlikely' gets you.
The last quote sums it up. Only 2 sides to a split - ive repeated the 400 treshold 5 times already and you still missed the Mark.
I'd been operating off of an arena of 400, you then said 200 to 'a side', I thought you meant 'per country' which was different from what you'd been on about before. That's why I asked for clarification.
Wiley.
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You're missing the real question. It's not about moving 1 player from the occupied side, but exactly the opposite.
You're missing my point.
The solution to your "problem" is within your own hands to fix but apparently each individual in the group is unwilling to do so.
The idea being presented is you forcibly move people. Wasn't there an "accept/decline" box? Why would anyone accept?
The means to fly with your squad are available in game now. It's up to the squad to all get together.
The next question has to be, what is more important, where you fly or with whom do you fly?
Life is hard sometimes. It requires thinking for one's self and making decisions.
But, whining is so much easier.
wrongway
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You're missing my point.
The solution to your "problem" is within your own hands to fix but apparently each individual in the group is unwilling to do so.
The idea being presented is you forcibly move people. Wasn't there an "accept/decline" box? Why would anyone accept?
The means to fly with your squad are available in game now. It's up to the squad to all get together.
The next question has to be, what is more important, where you fly or with whom do you fly?
Life is hard sometimes. It requires thinking for one's self and making decisions.
But, whining is so much easier.
wrongway
:rofl :lol good one wrongway
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I think what people are trying to say is that this would be way to hard to code NOT TRUE.
We went to the moon with computers equal to an old cellphone HT could easily code this duh!
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I think what people are trying to say is that this would be way to hard to code NOT TRUE.
We went to the moon with computers equal to an old cellphone HT could easily code this duh!
I think you're mistaking 'Too hard to code' with 'not an improvement, and DEFINITELY not enough of an improvement to justify being worthwhile to code'. I'd be against it if Hitech could rub his butt against the monitor and make it so overnight.
Wiley.
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I think you're mistaking 'Too hard to code' with 'not an improvement, and DEFINITELY not enough of an improvement to justify being worthwhile to code'. I'd be against it if Hitech could rub his butt against the monitor and make it so overnight.
Wiley.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm) :aok
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Apologies, Curry. Missed it on the first pass. :D
Wiley.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm) :aok
Don't use wiki as a primary source. Somebody probably messed with the entry.
:banana: :bolt:
wrongway
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You're missing my point.
The solution to your "problem" is within your own hands to fix but apparently each individual in the group is unwilling to do so.
The idea being presented is you forcibly move people. Wasn't there an "accept/decline" box? Why would anyone accept?
The means to fly with your squad are available in game now. It's up to the squad to all get together.
The next question has to be, what is more important, where you fly or with whom do you fly?
Life is hard sometimes. It requires thinking for one's self and making decisions.
But, whining is so much easier.
wrongway
Your arrogance has no limits. Have you read anything so far? The split is going to be transparent the players won't even realize it happened since it would look like a big warp on player front end, nothing more.
And what goes for the whole squad moving to the smaller server that has no real fight going on and that will take 30 minutes to an hour to get going properly, YOU get there with your squad if that's your cup of tea. I paid my sub to play with a reasonably sized arena full of action.
Life must be hard for you being blinded by your prejudice and obnoxious attitude.
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'Astronomical'? Hardly, Ripley. Ok, it doesn't even have to be all squaddies. Say 10 of them are individuals. What's preventing all 10 of them from being moved to the second arena? Answer? 'It's unlikely'. Go to any system designer anywhere, Ripley. Find out how far 'Oh, that's unlikely to happen' gets with them. If it can happen, it has to be accounted for.
I'm not going to bother answering you anymore after this since you don't get it and nothing can't help it.
Your every horror example required a 100% of players to move away locally. It will be highly unlikely while possible with 50% move. Even if it does happen it will be meaningless since it happens so rarely.
Now, stressing again (sigh) that this is going to be once a day event that will most likely abort 1 FIGHT AT MAXIMUM for the individual player with plenty others going on around as opposed to having to end the whole game, log off, log back in, wait for the WHOLE ARENA populate again, START EVERY FIGHT from NOTHING again, a group of players being blocked from the side with action and stuck to a large map with a handful of other players...
Really, do you realize how dumb you sound when you cry about a single fight when all those other negative effects would be avoided? :rofl
Do you even play at the time when LWOH gets closed? Do you even know a bloody thing about what you're talking about in general? I'm 100% you don't, you just bash the idea because you're afraid of change.
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I'm not going to bother answering you anymore after this since you don't get it and nothing can't help it.
Your every horror example required a 100% of players to move away locally. It will be highly unlikely while possible with 50% move. Even if it does happen it will be meaningless since it happens so rarely.
I am going to type this slowly so hopefully you will be able to understand it.
It doesn't require 100% to move away to kill the fight. I was using a simplistic example so hopefully you could follow it. Apparently it was lost on you. My point is, if people see the majority of the planes disappear around them, it is NOT transparent, no matter how hard you insist it is. It happens, and as we have seen over, and over, and over in this game, people have the mentality that the good fights are in Orange. Those who are quick on the uptake will immediately move back over to Orange, because they 'know' those planes that disappeared around them are there. New people logging in after that see more numbers in Orange, fewer in Blue. They will log into Orange. Blue's people will slowly realize numbers have dwindled, and will go to check out Orange. The arena will reach critical mass, and split again. There is nothing you have mentioned that stops people from heading back to the primary arena. It doesn't matter that 'they have no reason to do so', because people switch back and forth between the two arenas for no good reason currently. There is no reason to assume they won't continue to do so once your system is in place.
When the arena splits again, now it's even more noticable because it's happened twice in one evening. The cycle will repeat again.
Now, stressing again (sigh) that this is going to be once a day event
Only if people do exactly as you demand, which they won't.
Really, do you realize how dumb you sound when you cry about a single fight when all those other negative effects would be avoided? :rofl
*sigh* I was using simple examples to illustrate why people might be motivated to move. They might be motivated to move for any of a number of reasons, and there is 0 (zero) allowance for that in your plan. It is a pointless waste of time, it would be far easier to just uncap both arenas, as the effect would be virtually the same.
Do you even play at the time when LWOH gets closed? Do you even know a bloody thing about what you're talking about in general? I'm 100% you don't, you just bash the idea because you're afraid of change.
Every weekend, buddy. :aok It's pretty evident I know a heckuva lot more about system design than you do. Your entire system hinges on the assumption that people not turn around and log back into the original arena. I'm sorry that you can't see how ludicrous that is.
You have shown precisely nothing other than blind optimism that people will do exactly what you want to make this system work, and that is deeply flawed thinking. I was done with you about 3 posts ago, but just when I thought I was out, you pulled me back in. Toodles.
Wiley.
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oki doki then....
Recap:
Would you move to a different arena if a squad member asked?
<crickets>
If asked by "the system" will you switch to a new arena? Accept/Decline?
<crickets>
What is more important, the fight you are currently involved in or flying with a lone squad mate in another arena?
<crickets>
One final question. It will never be you who is poofed into another arena, will it?
I'll expect more <crickets>
wrongway
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Current system:
Whole arena shuts down, everyone has to land their flights, log off, log back on again, arena has to fill up again from zero (15-30 min process), fights will have to start all over again from zero, smaller server is severely gimped after cap gets filled
Proposed system:
Playrbase on server will split, nobody has to land their flights or log off or back again, arena is already filled to optimum, no flights will need to be respawned and there will be no smaller server that lacks fights afterwards.
Now since you possibly can't be thick enough to not see the benefit of the proposed system I'm taking that your only responding because you're trolling.
Oh and btw quit those ridiculously desperate throws like 'my system can't tolerate any player moving' when it takes exactly 200 players to move or join before there's need for a new split.
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*clapped his hands over his ears and screamed "NO NO NO NO NO!!!!"*
Good for you, Ripley. :aok
One final thing, riddle me this- What is the material difference between your system and two arenas with a static cap of 400 on each of them?
I'll even be nice and help you out here... Other than the pointless and confusing transition system, nothing. That would be the effective result, and the legion of reasons why 2 arenas with static caps won't work apply here, on top of the obvious flaws with the transition system.
This time, I'm really, really done wasting the bandwidth on this tripe.
Wiley.
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Good for you, Ripley. :aok
One final thing, riddle me this- What is the material difference between your system and two arenas with a static cap of 400 on each of them?
I'll even be nice and help you out here... Other than the pointless and confusing transition system, nothing. That would be the effective result, and the legion of reasons why 2 arenas with static caps won't work apply here, on top of the obvious flaws with the transition system.
This time, I'm really, really done wasting the bandwidth on this tripe.
Wiley.
LOL I refuse to believe you're really so thick. But just in case let me repeat: When LWOH dies, around 30 minutes is wasted for nothing and squad members are locked out from the other side for extended periods untill the other side is refilled (which happens slowly as people just quit when the server gets shut).
I hope, for your sake, that you're only trolling. :devil
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MrRiply: I have 3 simple questions.
Is it optional to switch to the other arena under your system?
If it is not optional do you think people are going to be more pleased with being forced to switch vs having a choice?
If it is optional, why do you believe people will switch, when they will not choose a different arena now?
HiTech
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MrRiply: I have 3 simple questions.
Is it optional to switch to the other arena under your system?
If it is not optional do you think people are going to be more pleased with being forced to switch vs having a choice?
If it is optional, why do you believe people will switch, when they will not choose a different arena now?
HiTech
First of all, thank you for addressing this discussion even though tempers have flared.
1) Switch would not be optional but automated and as transparent as possible in order to achieve the point in 2
2) People would not perceive they switched but some *others* did if their own 'world' continued as it was on in their point of view (achieved by porting the player to the running copy along others).
As players we do not have any knowledge which server, which port, which IP we play on outside of making the orange/blue choice during login - we can only observe the game 'world'. If the state of war remained, by players point of view all that really occurred was that a lot of players left the battle. This, then, will create a counter reaction from the defending side populating the same area again if too many players were transitioned locally and there's now a local power vacuum.
I'm making a leap of faith to say here that for majority of players the only other players whose presence matters for fluid gameplay are players that are squadmates. If no organized relation exists between players, it's likely a single player won't be missed. Enemies are anonymous as it is. Even if a player would want to switch to meet someone, by the virtue of now having two servers with 50% capacity, basically anyone who desires could move without causing much damage to anything. And because the split would be random, by average both sides would have equal amount of persons wanting to switch to either side, again balancing eachothers out.
3) As you said when given options, the customers make decisions which are detrimental to their and others gameplay (by overfilling maps as one example), that's why guidance is needed, which you already do in form of arena cap.
The whole point behind my idea was to achieve conditions where a total shutdown would not be necessary and the process would create two equally sized and active arenas 'on the fly' thereby negating the necessary time required to populate the new arena and most importantly, remove the inevitable near empty second arena that players will not voluntarily choose as long as it's low in numbers.
Now, I think I've made my case the best I can and if you say my idea is a bad one, this will be the last post about the subject, end of story.