Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Masherbrum on March 22, 2011, 06:52:43 AM
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-libya-us-jet-crash-20110323,0,6432862.story (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-libya-us-jet-crash-20110323,0,6432862.story)
Preliminary indications point to "not being shot down". Here's hoping both are alive and brought back to safety. :salute
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:salute
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110322/ap_on_re_eu/libya_us_jet (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110322/ap_on_re_eu/libya_us_jet)
Says that an Osprey picked up the Pilot and the WSO was picked up by rebels and is in U.S. hands now! I am happy they appear to be safe and sound!
:)
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Hmmm. SA-5 caught them by surprise?
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DoD is reporting "mechanical failure".
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DoD is reporting "mechanical failure".
Yea, and RB-36s just had "inflight wing failures near the sea of japan."
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glad they're O.K.
Someone is getting a ribbon lol :P
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Would really like to see the official report.
After so many years a mechanical failure just happens? and in such a place? I have though time believing this.
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damn machfly....we understand xD
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You really want to see that report don't you?
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We hear you already Macfly, jeesh! Glad both airmen are safe. (On a lighter note) One airmen landed safely in a field of sheep hmmm. :D
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Sorry, blame the forums.
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Hmmm. SA-5 caught them by surprise?
I don't see any pellet holes or damage to the remaining intact surfaces of the aircraft that would be consistent with damage from a HE fragmentation warhead, highly doubt it was a SA-5.
@ MachFly - some blame the momentary lag on the boards, others blame the ones impatiently clicking the submit button repeatedly during that same brief moment of time. :D
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Talk about rate of climb.. damn :O :O :O :O
according to wikipedia, the f-15 has a rate of climb of 50k per min :O :O
people complain of the k4.. wow this ride must be a whine generator lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle)
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Talk about rate of climb.. damn :O :O :O :O
according to wikipedia, the f-15 has a rate of climb of 50k per min :O :O
people complain of the k4.. wow this ride must be a whine generator lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle)
Back in '88, the Thunderbirds did a show at a local airport in San Diego (Brown Field) and they showed the vertical take off power of the F-16 when all the Thunderbirds took off in formation and went vertical right on take off. Was amazing to see that power.
ack-ack
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@ MachFly - some blame the momentary lag on the boards, others blame the ones impatiently clicking the submit button repeatedly during that same brief moment of time. :D
It took more than half hour for the post to appear. I did not expect it to be that slow.
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Talk about rate of climb.. damn :O :O :O :O
according to wikipedia, the f-15 has a rate of climb of 50k per min :O :O
people complain of the k4.. wow this ride must be a whine generator lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle)
Times have changed.
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Times have changed.
dude... 50k per min... thats a rocket with large fins, not an airplane lol...
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Talk about rate of climb.. damn :O :O :O :O
according to wikipedia, the f-15 has a rate of climb of 50k per min :O :O
people complain of the k4.. wow this ride must be a whine generator lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle)
Ill have to find the youtube clip but its the inside view of an F15....Goes from runway to 400 MPH in shallow climb then straight up to 35k without even trying
F15 is amazing, getting a bit on the old side but is still a world class fighter
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dude... 50k per min... thats a rocket with large fins, not an airplane lol...
A controller from KPHX told me how they had an F-15 requesting to take off and since there was a lot of traffic in the area it took a really long time for him to get his clearance. The controller said that the pilot was really not happy waiting there, so they asked him if he can reach 18,000ft before the end of the runway, he said he can......"cleared for take off".
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A controller from KPHX told me how they had an F-15 requesting to take off and since there was a lot of traffic in the area it took a really long time for him to get his clearance. The controller said that the pilot was really not happy waiting there, so they asked him if he can reach 18,000ft before the end of the runway, he said he can......"cleared for take off".
I did that in a "clean" F-15E, but I had to reduce power to keep from overspeeding the landing gear and I pulled the throttles back to min AB when I hit 500ish kts to ensure I didn't bust the mach. I pulled 4 G's to a vertical climb at the end of the runway and rolled out at 19,000 ft still doing 350 kts with the motors still in min AB. And that was with the "small" -220 motors. A clean -229 powered F-15E is a freaking monster.
If I recall correctly, a "normally" configured F-15E with the -220 motors and CFTs installed will do a vertical climb (and roll-out with 250ish kts at the top) of somewhere around 25,000 ft if you start low and just barely subsonic. The CFTs add a lot of drag and weight.
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I don't see any pellet holes or damage to the remaining intact surfaces of the aircraft that would be consistent with damage from a HE fragmentation warhead, highly doubt it was a SA-5.
That's not always a indicator. If you look at the wreckage photos of the F-117 (hit by an SA-5) that got shot down in Serbia, it landed relatively intact and most of the big pieces didn't show visible damage. Pieces of frag are usually much smaller than you'd think they are, except on really large bombs. Wiki (if correct) says the SA-5 warhead, while large, uses 2 gram and 3.5 gram pellets, so they are pretty small. Conversely, I've seen an F-18 wreck from a pilot flying it into the ground and the aircraft disintegrated. Literally, it was turned into very small pieces, with only the engines/cannon/landing gear remaining relatively intact.
That being said, I think its impossible to tell anything from looking at that picture. I am curious--the two highest mishap-rate aircraft in the U.S. military are the F-16 and AV-8, which are single engine aircraft, so I'm curious when a twin-engine aircraft suffers some sort of flight-ending mechanical failure in air. Eagle is probably in the best position to let us know what happened, since he's part of the F-15 community, if he can actually say. Someone page him so he can give us some educated insight.
[edit] I see he's showed up... :)
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there seems to be no damage to the AIM-120s they were carrying, wouldn't they have detonated if they were in fact shot down? also, the tail section of the aircraft seems to have no damage other than that from the crash....
32 years of active service and no F-15 has ever been shot down, and remember the Israelis have used them on much more equal footing than we have in our operations. taking out Sadam's elaborate SAM network in 1991 and 1994, as well as avoiding more SAMs in Serbia. not one has been shot down.
i highly doubt it was shot down, especially over the "friendly" part of the country
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I did that in a "clean" F-15E, but I had to reduce power to keep from overspeeding the landing gear and I pulled the throttles back to min AB when I hit 500ish kts to ensure I didn't bust the mach. I pulled 4 G's to a vertical climb at the end of the runway and rolled out at 19,000 ft still doing 350 kts with the motors still in min AB. And that was with the "small" -220 motors. A clean -229 powered F-15E is a freaking monster.
If I recall correctly, a "normally" configured F-15E with the -220 motors and CFTs installed will do a vertical climb (and roll-out with 250ish kts at the top) of somewhere around 25,000 ft if you start low and just barely subsonic. The CFTs add a lot of drag and weight.
If you can be "green" with envy, I've officially gone to plaid. :salute
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It's hard to tell from the photos, but it looks like it either hit at a very low angle and pretty darn slow and skipped/slid to a halt, or it hit the ground flat as if it was in a spin. Both the vertical tails are bent off the same direction but the wings are largely intact, so if it flipped over on the ground it must have been a pretty weird impact. The cockpit forward of the intakes appears to be missing, but that's where those things seem to break so that doesn't say much.
Offhand and totally from 2 really bad photographs off of CNN, it looks like a vertical impact with the aircraft in a flat spin. It burned so it had fuel onboard. I know of a few malfunctions that could lead to that condition (unrecoverable flat spin) and I also know that the plane can be spun by mis-handling the controls. One F-15E flying from Seymour Johnson entered an unrecoverable spin due to a horizontal stabilizer malfunction and crashed, and they almost roasted the pilot for mishandling the controls until they found the real cause. So there has been one documented case of an F-15E crashing from an unrecoverable flat spin due to a malfunction, and the fairly crummy pictures of the wreckage show what looks like either a low speed flat impact or a nearly vertical flat impact, based on the condition of the burned out wreckage. That's all guesswork and I find it hard to believe that we'll get a chance to inspect the wreckage before it's carted off by locals and third-party intelligence agents.
Oh yea, CNN video showed a nearly intact aim-120 still attached to a missile rail. I bet the Chinese and Russians are currently in a bidding war with whoever possesses that missile, unless we managed to tell the locals that we'd like all of the bits and pieces back and got a chance to recover some of the more intact sensitive parts. I hope that the avionics bays burned or were otherwise thoroughly destroyed...
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It's hard to tell from the photos, but it looks like it either hit at a very low angle and pretty darn slow and skipped/slid to a halt, or it hit the ground flat as if it was in a spin. Both the vertical tails are bent off the same direction but the wings are largely intact, so if it flipped over on the ground it must have been a pretty weird impact. The cockpit forward of the intakes appears to be missing, but that's where those things seem to break so that doesn't say much.
Offhand and totally from 2 really bad photographs off of CNN, it looks like a vertical impact with the aircraft in a flat spin. It burned so it had fuel onboard. I know of a few malfunctions that could lead to that condition (unrecoverable flat spin) and I also know that the plane can be spun by mis-handling the controls. One F-15E flying from Seymour Johnson entered an unrecoverable spin due to a horizontal stabilizer malfunction and crashed, and they almost roasted the pilot for mishandling the controls until they found the real cause. So there has been one documented case of an F-15E crashing from an unrecoverable flat spin due to a malfunction, and the fairly crummy pictures of the wreckage show what looks like either a low speed flat impact or a nearly vertical flat impact, based on the condition of the burned out wreckage. That's all guesswork and I find it hard to believe that we'll get a chance to inspect the wreckage before it's carted off by locals and third-party intelligence agents.
Oh yea, CNN video showed a nearly intact aim-120 still attached to a missile rail. I bet the Chinese and Russians are currently in a bidding war with whoever possesses that missile, unless we managed to tell the locals that we'd like all of the bits and pieces back and got a chance to recover some of the more intact sensitive parts. I hope that the avionics bays burned or were otherwise thoroughly destroyed...
I hope to Christ they blow the wreck before that occurs.
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Oh yea, CNN video showed a nearly intact aim-120 still attached to a missile rail. I bet the Chinese and Russians are currently in a bidding war with whoever possesses that missile, unless we managed to tell the locals that we'd like all of the bits and pieces back and got a chance to recover some of the more intact sensitive parts. I hope that the avionics bays burned or were otherwise thoroughly destroyed...
A couple of jets strafed the wreckage afterwards but it seems the jets only did damage to a local resident's leg and didn't really do any additional damage to the wreckage.
ack-ack
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Here's the latest that I found. Says US forces shot some civilians...? Who knows.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12816226
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Here's the latest that I found. Says US forces shot some civilians...? Who knows.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12816226
the pilot apparently saw some villagers and called out his position to the Marines, thinking the locals were comming to capture or kill him. a Harrier droped a JDAM "between the pilot and the villagers" to "scare them". shrapnel from the bombs injured some of the villagers.
that's what CNN is telling us, anyways. sounds like fog of war to me
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Talk about rate of climb.. damn :O :O :O :O
according to wikipedia, the f-15 has a rate of climb of 50k per min :O :O
people complain of the k4.. wow this ride must be a whine generator lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle)
If you've never seen a F-15 demonastration at an Air Show, it's a must-see.
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F-15 in Libya "crashes"....... right.
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F-15 in Libya "crashes"....... right.
Edited....probably shouldn't say that..
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eagl i am seriously jealous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp4zrP0orC8
as far as i can tell it might have been a flame-out causing a flat-spin.
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as far as i can tell it might have been a flame-out causing a flat-spin.
I hate it when that happens.
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Talking about rate of climb, about 20-yrs ago I was at an airshow in Southern California. An SR-71 ups from the field and does a couple racetracks around the field. The first two times it hits afterburn over the runway so we can see the blue plume out the tail end. At the end of the runway they would pull the throttle back and do another loop. Third time was a charm. Hit the end of the runway and kept going. Within a dozen seconds or so it became a black speck that disappeared from sight. Gone!
My brother and I were talking to an F-15 pilot standing next to his ride. All he said was "Holy toejam I wish we had that excelleration!"
I don't know how well the SR-71 could excellerate in the verticle, or if they would even allow it but it made one Eagle driver jealous.
Boo
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32 years of active service and no F-15 has ever been shot down
I think we lost a couple of E's to ground fire/SAM in Gulf War 1?
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I think we lost a couple of E's to ground fire/SAM in Gulf War 1?
Yes, I'm positive we did. I think however, that Wildcat is referring to air to air combat.
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Yes, I'm positive we did. I think however, that Wildcat is referring to air to air combat.
Roger... :aok
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eagl i am seriously jealous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp4zrP0orC8
as far as i can tell it might have been a flame-out causing a flat-spin.
All the US Aviators know how to put on a good show...I got to see one of the last flights of a F14 from the USS Theodore Roosevelt, just as the F14 got done a 4 point roll 3 Super Hornets did a highspeed pass from behind the crowd scaring the crap out of everyone with how loud and fast they came over :rofl
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My brother and I were talking to an F-15 pilot standing next to his ride. All he said was "Holy toejam I wish we had that excelleration!"
I don't know how well the SR-71 could excellerate in the verticle, or if they would even allow it but it made one Eagle driver jealous.
Boo
At sea level in max afterburner at 200 knots the thrust is placarded as just over 52k lbs. Dry weight for the SR-71 varies between 56,000 lbs to over 60,000 depending on the configuration. The fuel qty low light comes on with less than 4,050 lbs in tank 4 and 5,400 lbs in tank 1.
Another interesting point, the SR-71 is limited to 450 KEAS, at low altitudes it cannot achieve mach 1. Only after climbing to around 20,000 feet could it theoretically break the sound barrier. In practice the SR-71 would level off around 30k and perform a dip that decreased the time spent in Mach buffet.
Strip
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Accelerate
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Talking about rate of climb, about 20-yrs ago I was at an airshow in Southern California. An SR-71 ups from the field and does a couple racetracks around the field. The first two times it hits afterburn over the runway so we can see the blue plume out the tail end. At the end of the runway they would pull the throttle back and do another loop. Third time was a charm. Hit the end of the runway and kept going. Within a dozen seconds or so it became a black speck that disappeared from sight. Gone!
My brother and I were talking to an F-15 pilot standing next to his ride. All he said was "Holy toejam I wish we had that excelleration!"
I don't know how well the SR-71 could excellerate in the verticle, or if they would even allow it but it made one Eagle driver jealous.
Boo
I was probably at that show... SoCal native here = )
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Yes, I'm positive we did. I think however, that Wildcat is referring to air to air combat.
it was my understanding that we've never officially lost an F-15 due to either air or ground fire...
i'll have to check that out
EDIT: two F-15Es were shot down by anti-aircraft fire in the first gulf war. oops. :(
however, these seem to be the only two F-15 combat losses of any kind