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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Golfer on March 24, 2011, 07:40:09 PM

Title: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Golfer on March 24, 2011, 07:40:09 PM: Lets say:

1.) You're flying along in level flight at 25,000' and humming along at say chewing up about 6 miles a minute.
2.) In level flight your guns are aligned to be level with the flight path of the airplane
3.) You pull the trigger and fire one .50 caliber round.
4.) There is no wind or forces other than a standard still atmosphere acting on the bullet.

Where's the bullet land? How far did it go? How do you figure it out? I'm trying to figure out how to calculate it rather than simply asking someone else to do it for me.

I came up with some rough calculations while flying along the other day trying to figure out using known .50BMG ballistics information I had but I'm at a loss on how to computer out that far to decide what the drop would be like when we're talking miles.

I was trying to figure out 43,000', Mach .80 (458kts, 528mph, 774.4fps) and deciding if we would have flown past the point the bullet finally hits the ground. I don't think we would by a fair margin but I have no way to prove it or even make an educated guess.

Help?

The airplane is NOT on a treadmill :lol
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: IrishOne on March 24, 2011, 07:48:19 PM: :headscratch:
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Tupac on March 24, 2011, 08:02:50 PM: Quote from: IrishOne on March 24, 2011, 07:48:19 PM
:headscratch:

He's asking if the airplane would pass the bullet in flight before the bullet hits the ground.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Chalenge on March 24, 2011, 08:18:39 PM: The bullet will hit the ground in 51.7 seconds ( if you meant 43k alt and ignoring the possibility of uneven ground or bullet rise or terminal velocity). Does that help any? :D

(39.4 seconds from 25k)
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Golfer on March 24, 2011, 08:25:30 PM: Yeah sort of. I can figure out how fast a bullet will fall from 43,000' but I can't figure out how far it travels in that time.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: mtnman on March 24, 2011, 08:55:05 PM: Quote from: Golfer on March 24, 2011, 08:25:30 PM
... but I can't figure out how far it travels in that time.

I imagine it'll travel all the way to the ground.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Golfer on March 24, 2011, 09:05:32 PM: Quote from: mtnman on March 24, 2011, 08:55:05 PM
I imagine it'll travel all the way to the ground.

:neener:

I don't know the linear distance covered from the point the projectile was fired to the point it hits sea level.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: FLS on March 24, 2011, 09:12:29 PM: 4 miles.

I don't do math, I just guessed. :D

And you wouldn't catch it.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: hitech on March 24, 2011, 09:13:38 PM: Quote from: Chalenge on March 24, 2011, 08:18:39 PM
The bullet will hit the ground in 51.7 seconds ( if you meant 43k alt and ignoring the possibility of uneven ground or bullet rise or terminal velocity). Does that help any? :D

(39.4 seconds from 25k)

Are you accounting for drag Challenge?

I,ll run a sim on it tomorrow.

HiTech
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: E25280 on March 24, 2011, 09:22:40 PM: A long time ago, in a thread far, far away . . .

Quote from: hitech on March 02, 2006, 10:03:34 AM
:) I watch that show also, anyway what your missing is deceleration (or more properly drag ) varies with the sqaure of vel.

The baisic equations forms are (combining constants all into BulletDragCO ).

Drag = Vel^2 * AirDensity * BulletDragCO.
and
Acceleration = Drag / BulletMass

<Snip>

HiTech

Quote from: E25280 on March 02, 2006, 09:38:50 PM
Without a lot of time to browse, I quickly found one site (wikepedia, I believe) that listed the muzzle velocity of a WW2 Browning .50 Cal MG to be 3,050 feet per second, or about 2,080 mph. :O

Quote from: hitech on March 03, 2006, 09:58:14 AM
E25280: Intial deacceration on the 50cal would be in the 1400 FPSPS Range

HiTech

Of course, while digging this up to help anyone start the calculation, I see that the big man himself is on the case. :aok
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Golfer on March 24, 2011, 09:28:08 PM: Quote from: hitech on March 24, 2011, 09:13:38 PM
Are you accounting for drag Challenge?

I,ll run a sim on it tomorrow.

HiTech

Thanks Dale.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Chalenge on March 24, 2011, 10:31:50 PM: Quote from: hitech on March 24, 2011, 09:13:38 PM
Are you accounting for drag Challenge?

I,ll run a sim on it tomorrow.

HiTech

No... drag either... I was going to do the same thing. :D

EDIT: I dont believe the bullet would ever slow down to its terminal velocity (max speed in free fall) and since gravity pulls on it the entire time the times I gave should be loosely accurate. This is a fascinating application of math though and more complex than it appears at first (owing to the increase of fluid drag closer to the Earths surface).
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: tf15pin on March 25, 2011, 07:16:24 AM: You will start by writing a pair of force equation (horizontal component and vertical component) describing the external forces on the bullet (Drag, gravity, Coriolis force if you want to get fancy). These will be second order linear differential equations that when solved will give you the position as a function of time. You can then set the vertical position function equal to zero and solve for time. Then you use that time in the horizontal component equation to get the horizontal range. The consideration of air density changing with altitude will make the math a little harder but it is the same process. Years ago I took a dynamics class where we did ballistic calculations for battleship guns so if I can find the solution to that it should be useful.

My recommendation, find a java application that does something close to what you are looking for.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Ghosth on March 25, 2011, 07:22:46 AM: I disagree Challenge

The bullet is falling at its terminal velocity as soon as it leaves the gun. Falling for that long, the drag is going to eventually stop its forward motion, or nearly so. Leaving you with only its downward terminal velocity.

I think a .50 is going to lose half its muzzle velocity in the first second, or 800 yards, beyond that it will be slowing rapidly.

Falling for over 30 seconds gives the bullet lots of time to shed minor forward movement via drag.

Interesting exercise!
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: EskimoJoe on March 25, 2011, 07:31:12 AM: I'm wondering if you guys are taking into account the bullet beginning to tumble
after a certain distance? I'm unsure if it would, but my gut tells me it might.
< not a math/science genius... yet.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: tf15pin on March 25, 2011, 07:56:08 AM: Quote from: Ghosth on March 25, 2011, 07:22:46 AM
I disagree Challenge

The bullet is falling at its terminal velocity as soon as it leaves the gun. Falling for that long, the drag is going to eventually stop its forward motion, or nearly so. Leaving you with only its downward terminal velocity.

I think a .50 is going to lose half its muzzle velocity in the first second, or 800 yards, beyond that it will be slowing rapidly.

Falling for over 30 seconds gives the bullet lots of time to shed minor forward movement via drag.

Interesting exercise!

In the vertical direction it is accelerating downward as soon as it leaves the gun, but terminal velocity is not achieved instantaneously. Gravitational acceleration is 32 ft/s^2. Terminal velocity would be when it accelerates to a speed (vertical) where the vertical component of drag is equal to the gravitational force.

Acceleration is how fast something is speeding up or slowing down. For the case of drag, when velocity is high so is drag, as velocity decreases so does the rate at which it is decreasing. What this means is that the bullet is slowing down the fastest when it first leaves the muzzle, so out at 800 yards it is actually slowing down slower than when it first starts off.

In the end I think it would still have several hundred ft/s horizontal velocity left in it when it got to the ground.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: hitech on March 25, 2011, 09:56:56 AM: With the assumption that the bullet does not destabilize , I would think it would given the numbers below.

Alt 25k 45k
Launch Speed 450mph 528mph
Secs to impact 65 97
Horizontal Distance 30858 55107
Plane Dist Traveled 42880 75082
Speed at impact. 444FPS 446FPS

HiTech
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: FLS on March 25, 2011, 10:27:06 AM: Is that going straight down at impact?
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: hitech on March 25, 2011, 10:28:10 AM: Quote from: FLS on March 25, 2011, 10:27:06 AM
Is that going straight down at impact?

It had about a 10FPS fwd vel at impact.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: FLS on March 25, 2011, 12:26:25 PM: Edit: Oops never mind. :O
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Golfer on March 25, 2011, 12:51:14 PM: Quote from: hitech on March 25, 2011, 09:56:56 AM
With the assumption that the bullet does not destabilize , I would think it would given the numbers below.

Alt 25k 45k
Launch Speed 450mph 528mph
Secs to impact 65 97
Horizontal Distance 30858 55107
Plane Dist Traveled 42880 75082
Speed at impact. 444FPS 446FPS

HiTech

Thanks Dale.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Chalenge on March 25, 2011, 03:21:19 PM: Quote from: tf15pin on March 25, 2011, 07:56:08 AM
In the vertical direction it is accelerating downward as soon as it leaves the gun, but terminal velocity is not achieved instantaneously. Gravitational acceleration is 32 ft/s^2. Terminal velocity would be when it accelerates to a speed (vertical) where the vertical component of drag is equal to the gravitational force.

Exactly. I didnt believe it would hit the ground at terminal velocity (not having slowed to that point) but according to HiTechs results it does.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: hitech on March 26, 2011, 09:11:47 AM: Quote from: Chalenge on March 25, 2011, 03:21:19 PM
Exactly. I didnt believe it would hit the ground at terminal velocity (not having slowed to that point) but according to HiTechs results it does.

Yes and no , what happens is it never hits a terminal vel because that terminal vel is chaining as it is descending. It still had about 2fpsps deceleration at impact.

I think in real life the bullet would start tumbling fairly soon, I.E. around 20 secs. And then the terminal vel would be around 200 - 300 fps. And the drag co would increase immensely.

HiTech
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Killer91 on March 26, 2011, 10:11:38 AM: This may be a little off topic, but were there ever any injuries reported on the ground from falling bullets or spent cases from planes?
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: FLS on March 26, 2011, 11:26:31 AM: Quote from: hitech on March 26, 2011, 09:11:47 AM
Yes and no , what happens is it never hits a terminal vel because that terminal vel is chaining as it is descending. It still had about 2fpsps deceleration at impact.

I think in real life the bullet would start tumbling fairly soon, I.E. around 20 secs. And then the terminal vel would be around 200 - 300 fps. And the drag co would increase immensely.

HiTech

So it would travel about 4 miles? :D
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: USCH on March 26, 2011, 12:56:57 PM: Quote from: Killer91 on March 26, 2011, 10:11:38 AM
This may be a little off topic, but were there ever any injuries reported on the ground from falling bullets or spent cases from planes?
knowing full well it was a lie the russians accused Heartman of killing a lot of people with the bullits that "missed" as he shot down aircraft.. seing as it is clearly possable (most notably from "gun claping" accedents) but I have never read of a recoded incedent of some one being killed from a bullit intended for air to air shots. But you would think... all them rounds... someone had to have been hit.... and what about all the flack as it fell? I never hear about that eather..
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Noir on March 26, 2011, 02:54:51 PM: I guess a tater shell would still be dangerous after falling from 42k
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Chalenge on March 26, 2011, 03:52:50 PM: Quote from: USCH on March 26, 2011, 12:56:57 PM
knowing full well it was a lie the russians accused Heartman of killing a lot of people with the bullits that "missed" as he shot down aircraft.. seing as it is clearly possable (most notably from "gun claping" accedents) but I have never read of a recoded incedent of some one being killed from a bullit intended for air to air shots. But you would think... all them rounds... someone had to have been hit.... and what about all the flack as it fell? I never hear about that eather..

It had to have happened. We know it happened at Pearl Harbor.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: hitech on March 26, 2011, 04:41:57 PM: Think hail stone.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Chalenge on March 26, 2011, 05:31:07 PM: True Hitech. Just like Mythbusters proved. At lower altitudes though...
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Killer91 on March 27, 2011, 12:57:44 AM: Quote from: Chalenge on March 26, 2011, 03:52:50 PM
It had to have happened. We know it happened at Pearl Harbor.

I not questioning your statement but do you have sources? I'd very muchly like to read about it.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: save on March 28, 2011, 02:34:46 AM: Quote from: Killer91 on March 26, 2011, 10:11:38 AM
This may be a little off topic, but were there ever any injuries reported on the ground from falling bullets or spent cases from planes?

now you know why we dont have sheeps anymore in the arenas :salute
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Chalenge on March 28, 2011, 03:53:50 AM: Quote from: Killer91 on March 27, 2011, 12:57:44 AM
I not questioning your statement but do you have sources? I'd very muchly like to read about it.

All you have to do is search it on the internet. There were 68 civilian deaths from all the AAA fire. Something like 45% of the collateral casualties (ironically) were Japanese Americans. I recall reading that two deaths were infant girls sharing the same crib struck by a large caliber machine gun. You dont forget that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: bustr on March 28, 2011, 04:29:04 PM: Quote from: Noir on March 26, 2011, 02:54:51 PM
I guess a tater shell would still be dangerous after falling from 42k

The ZZ1589A/B fuzes used the initial spin from the MK108 barrel to unlock the fuse for contact detonation. After a certain amount of time passes the speed of revolution will slow down or stop for the Minengeschoss. At which point lacking sufficient spin to keep the firing spring locked up in the housing, it self detonates the Minengeschoss to keep it from potentialy destroying something or someone on the ground. The earlier AZ1587 unlocked in the same manner but had no self detonation function once armed. It had a few pre detonation issues.

One of the 109G6/U4 discussions on this board recently spoke about those problems at Reclin while trying to install the MK108 gondola kits and successfully fire them. The detonation issues with the early MK108 was as much due to problems with the gun as the ammo.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Ping on March 29, 2011, 08:39:55 AM: I remember seeing a pic of a car that was hit by falling AA that killed the occupants at Pearl.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Noir on March 29, 2011, 08:55:09 AM: Quote from: bustr on March 28, 2011, 04:29:04 PM
The ZZ1589A/B fuzes used the initial spin from the MK108 barrel to unlock the fuse for contact detonation. After a certain amount of time passes the speed of revolution will slow down or stop for the Minengeschoss. At which point lacking sufficient spin to keep the firing spring locked up in the housing, it self detonates the Minengeschoss to keep it from potentialy destroying something or someone on the ground. The earlier AZ1587 unlocked in the same manner but had no self detonation function once armed. It had a few pre detonation issues.

cool, nice info :aok
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: BuckP on March 31, 2011, 01:42:24 PM: Calculus will work as well, as I used to solve a similar problem for a squaddie awhile back. Here is the basic setup, just change the values. Same equation will answer your questions.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/Derektutor/1Basicdiagram.jpg

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/Derektutor/3PartsandPieces.jpg
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: hitech on March 31, 2011, 08:07:37 PM: Quote from: BuckP on March 31, 2011, 01:42:24 PM
Calculus will work as well, as I used to solve a similar problem for a squaddie awhile back. Here is the basic setup, just change the values. Same equation will answer your questions.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/Derektutor/1Basicdiagram.jpg

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/Derektutor/3PartsandPieces.jpg

That equation does not take drag into account.

HiTech
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: BuckP on March 31, 2011, 11:36:22 PM: Very true sir regarding drag, but that equation would basically answer the OP's question...much closer than most of these replies anyway.

+1 to Hitech in my book, he does take all aspects into consideration!
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Banshee7 on March 31, 2011, 11:48:30 PM: I am simply amazed at this thread... It makes me feel so dumb!
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Iron_Cross on April 03, 2011, 12:10:40 AM: Quote from: Banshee7 on March 31, 2011, 11:48:30 PM
I am simply amazed at this thread... It makes me feel so dumb!

This is different from how you normally feel, how? :neener:
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: skorpion on April 03, 2011, 05:31:47 AM: what about a HVAR rocket? how fast does it travel, when will it hit the ground at 45k and will it take a nose dive or go at a little bit of a slope?
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Airborne on April 03, 2011, 06:41:38 AM: Quote from: Banshee7 on March 31, 2011, 11:48:30 PM
I am simply amazed at this thread... It makes me feel so dumb!

me too, math makes me so :furious .. Thankfully, I don't need a super duper high level of math to :airplane: for real, lmao. I am submitting a WOFT packet and the math required is actually at about the same level of math for my current MOS.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: hitech on April 03, 2011, 12:05:20 PM: Some how Airborn brought back this proof in my head. Learned it in High School.

http://www.math.toronto.edu/mathnet/falseProofs/first1eq2.html

HiTech
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: BERN1 on April 04, 2011, 07:48:16 PM: my head hurts...gonna go lay down for awhile,probably dream about fallin unxploded taters!!!
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: druski85 on April 04, 2011, 08:16:37 PM: Ah, but does it blend?

Quote from: hitech on April 03, 2011, 12:05:20 PM
Some how Airborn brought back this proof in my head. Learned it in High School.

http://www.math.toronto.edu/mathnet/falseProofs/first1eq2.html

HiTech

Haha, I was proud of myself for getting that one, but failed miserably at the other classic fallacies. :confused:
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: BuckP on April 07, 2011, 08:28:01 PM: So Hitech, what figures do you use for atmospheric drag in the game? How is it scaled through altitude (linear, logarithmic, etc.)? Is this information even something we are privy to? This question has come up before within our squad actually, when trying to answer some questions (as seen on the white board pic I posted up with the equation answering the OP's question). I'm not being a jerk here, just asking because I work with mathematics. Oh, and no, I don't plan to go through and check every aspect of the game, lol.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: hitech on April 08, 2011, 09:30:19 AM: Quote from: BuckP on April 07, 2011, 08:28:01 PM
So Hitech, what figures do you use for atmospheric drag in the game? How is it scaled through altitude (linear, logarithmic, etc.)? Is this information even something we are privy to? This question has come up before within our squad actually, when trying to answer some questions (as seen on the white board pic I posted up with the equation answering the OP's question). I'm not being a jerk here, just asking because I work with mathematics. Oh, and no, I don't plan to go through and check every aspect of the game, lol.

Standard atmospheric density tables.

I've posted them before so try a search in this topic. Both speed of sound and density.

HiTech
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: jeep00 on April 09, 2011, 09:19:26 AM: 42

Bob
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: moot on April 09, 2011, 10:23:57 AM: if
a=b
then
a²-ab = 0
and that's trouble waiting to happen
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Mystery on May 27, 2011, 01:06:43 PM: Just a guess, but there are standard external ballistics calculators around (i.e. Sierra and some freeware) that can do this calc.

The only "tricks" are to input atmospheric density at the firing point, and to use the true airspeed as a full value 0 degree wind.

Hitech - how did you account for changing atmospheric density as the projectile drops?

Just curious
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Mystery on May 27, 2011, 01:13:24 PM: Quote from: skorpion on April 03, 2011, 05:31:47 AM
what about a HVAR rocket? how fast does it travel, when will it hit the ground at 45k and will it take a nose dive or go at a little bit of a slope?

At first glance this is trickier because the rocket is powered during a portion of its flight. But if you know the rocket's c/d, frontal area, terminal speed at the point of motor burnout and how much it has already dropped from the launching altitude at that point...it can be calculated. I'll do a little digging but I'm not optimistic about finding c/d's and frontal areas for HVARs.

In general terms though, I believe it will be in a nose dive since air resistance (Vo, c/d and frontal area) will overcome forward momentum.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: hitech on May 27, 2011, 03:04:28 PM: Quote from: Mystery on May 27, 2011, 01:06:43 PM
Just a guess, but there are standard external ballistics calculators around (i.e. Sierra and some freeware) that can do this calc.

The only "tricks" are to input atmospheric density at the firing point, and to use the true airspeed as a full value 0 degree wind.

Hitech - how did you account for changing atmospheric density as the projectile drops?

Just curious

Simple, I ran a computer simulator that does it.

HiTech
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on May 27, 2011, 04:38:59 PM: Unrelated kinda, but i wish the cannon rounds that had "timer-fuses" to detonate the round before ground fall would work as they should.

Case in point, the 37mm cannon round for our p-39's had a fuse, would be a nice addition.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: augustk on May 28, 2011, 08:05:33 AM: The real question is if the bullet in question falls in a forest, does it make a sound? :headscratch:
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: HPriller on May 29, 2011, 03:51:14 AM: Interesting thread, Hitech is quite correct on his mention of the effects of drag. In most cases at the altitudes mentioned the bullet would destabilize long before hitting the ground. The resultant tumbling would have two major effects. The forward momentum of the bullet would pretty much be lost entirely and it would start to fall more or less straight down, and any wind might even push it in a completely different direction. Second, the terminal velocity of the bullet would be greatly reduced. As mentioned earlier in this thread, mythbusters did an episode with experiments related to this and their bullet (a 9mm I believe) topped out around 160mph when falling straight down if I recall correctly. They even concluded that a bullet tumbling in such a fashion wouldn't impart lethal force on impact. To answer the initial question as to whether or not the plane passes the bullet before it hits the ground, it does. There is a catch to this as the size of the round gets larger it will take longer for the drag forces to slow the round sufficiently to destabilize it, hence large caliber artillery being capable of firing several miles accurately.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: 230G on May 29, 2011, 09:01:38 AM: Quote
Just a guess, but there are standard external ballistics calculators around (i.e. Sierra and some freeware) that can do this calc.

  Interesting.....all this talk about ballistics, drag, calculus, etc. and after almost four pages someone finally mentions a ballistics calculator. ;) There are quite a few on-line, but most of them are limited in their range.

  One of the factors that I was surprised no one mentioned is the ballistic coefficient (BC). This, in laymans terms, is a measure of a projectiles ability to overcome air resistance in flight and can vary greatly depending on the shape of the projectile. As an extreme example, a .50 cal. round lead ball would have a BC of around .120 (going from memory) while the US M33 Ball projectile a BC of .670. This equates to a HUGE difference in trajectory. BC is also affected by altitude and temperature(changes in air density) as well as the decreasing velocity of the projectile.

  A few have mentioned the destabilization of the bullet and I wonder about this. I wonder to what extent bullets destabilize. I shoot rifles competitively and have had the long range shooters tell me that it's quite important that the bullet remain supersonic all the way to the target. This due to the fact that a projectile will destabilize slightly when making the transition from trans to subsonic...not however to the point of tumbling. I wonder if a projectile will eventually begin to tumble. I have my doubts....especially in the case of a long, aerodynamic projectile such as those used in the 50 BMG cartridge.

   230G/35Whelen
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Golfer on May 29, 2011, 09:26:37 AM: I got my initial information where I was doing my calculations using several ballistics calculators against one another. They don't go out so far as to calculate 8 miles of bullet drop, lateral distance covered taking into account fired from an aircraft moving at 450knots and decelerating until falling darn near straight down..

You won't see sierra, winchester or any other of the popular calculators used for long range shooting because they don't work for this calculation. Frankly asking about it is a waste of time, which is exactly why I posed the question here.

And I had my answer weeks ago.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: 230G on May 29, 2011, 12:52:01 PM: Quote
And I had my answer weeks ago.
Oh? :headscratch: I read through all the posts and I didn't see what I thought was a definitive answer. And please don't think that statement means that I have the answer.
I do remember learning this in high school physics: If you fire a projectile from a gun X number of feet from the ground and at exactly the same instance drop an identical projectile from the same height, they both hit the ground at the same time. Ms. Nash, my cat-eye glasses wearing physics teacher, demonstrated this with a little contraption and two steel balls.
230G
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Golfer on May 29, 2011, 01:06:21 PM: Yeah. That's a good and popular schoolhouse example of gravity and the time for the bullet to hit the ground from X really isn't in question. I was curious about distance traveled from the bullet which is decelerating compared to the airplane which is flying at a constant speed and where they would be when the bullet hit the ground.

Hitech's numbers seem good enough for me.
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Golfer on May 29, 2011, 01:08:40 PM: Quote from: hitech on March 25, 2011, 09:56:56 AM
With the assumption that the bullet does not destabilize , I would think it would given the numbers below.

Alt 25k 45k
Launch Speed 450mph 528mph
Secs to impact 65 97
Horizontal Distance 30858 55107
Plane Dist Traveled 42880 75082
Speed at impact. 444FPS 446FPS

HiTech
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: LThunderpocket on June 05, 2011, 06:52:38 PM: but as it gets lower it will encounter thicker air,thus more drag.not to mention spin drift,rotation of earth,higher amounts of drag as it gets lower,air temp,speed of airplane,and heat waves
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: df54 on June 09, 2011, 04:32:49 PM: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/traj.html

see if this helps
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: bortas1 on June 16, 2011, 10:03:05 AM: interesting thread. maybe i missed it as i do from my bad eyesight, or not reading carefully enough, but in the game do the bullets or cannon shells accully hit the ground or does the computer determen to just poff the round? :salute
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: Scotty55OEFVet on June 17, 2011, 09:31:17 AM: :bheadSeems to me that some people have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much time on their hands... :bhead :bolt:
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: hitech on June 17, 2011, 03:51:04 PM: Quote from: bortas1 on June 16, 2011, 10:03:05 AM
interesting thread. maybe i missed it as i do from my bad eyesight, or not reading carefully enough, but in the game do the bullets or cannon shells accully hit the ground or does the computer determen to just poff the round? :salute

They have a max time of flight after that they disappear.

HiTech
Title: Re: Where would the bullet land?
Post by: bortas1 on June 19, 2011, 03:51:51 AM: Quote from: hitech on June 17, 2011, 03:51:04 PM
They have a max time of flight after that they disappear.

HiTech

:salute ty sirs have been wondering that for awhile