Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: fbWldcat on March 27, 2011, 11:50:37 PM
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In light of the recent posts about American fighters and Karnak's post about other countries and their planes...
Dewoitine D.520
Approximately 905 built by the end of the war. About 114 confirmed air victories, about 40 probables. Saw action in France and Syria.
Single seat fighter with one 930 HP Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 12 cylinder V-Type engine. Max speed was about 336 mph (540km/h). Ceiling was 36,090 feet. Max range was 957 miles. Wings: 33' 5"... Length: 28' 8". Height: 8' 5". Weight: 4,685 lbs empty, 6,151 loaded.
Arament: Was not the best, but is certainly nothing to laugh at.
4x 7mm MGs in the leading edges of the wings: 1x HS 404 20mm cannon in the nose.
(http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/photo_albums/images12/23.jpg)
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/france/dewoitine_d-520_1.jpg)
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better have a lot of 20mm ammo :D
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better have a lot of 20mm ammo :D
60 rounds I'm pretty sure.
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+1 for the Dewo, (WW2OL has one :O)
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Used as an advanced trainer by the germans after the fall of France. It should be pretty manoeuvrable and competitive with the early 109's.
+1
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Early war bird? Elegant?
+1
Was a bit heavy compared to the 109E.
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i didnt know france had planes!!!! :noid
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i didnt know france had planes!!!! :noid
Good bait and I'll bite...we french basicly invented flight itself. The Wrights exploit was only an interruption in decades of French breakthroughs in flight techniques :D
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Good bait and I'll bite...we french basicly invented flight itself. The Wrights exploit was only an interruption in decades of French breakthroughs in flight techniques :D
Wasn't that done by a Brazilian guy living in France? :bolt:
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Good bait and I'll bite...we french basicly invented flight itself. The Wrights exploit was only an interruption in decades of French breakthroughs in flight techniques :D
Before the lock, I just want to say... Montgolfier! :)
And I, too, would like to see the Dewoitine and other French planes added, mostly for use in events.
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Wasn't that done by a Brazilian guy living in France? :bolt:
Alberto Santos-Dumont was one of the pioneers indeed. He did a lot to advertise powered heavier-than-air flight.
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yes Santos is a national hero, he and his 14-bis.
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See Rules #2, #4
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Alberto Santos-Dumont was one of the pioneers indeed. He did a lot to advertise powered heavier-than-air flight.
yes Santos is a national hero, he and his 14-bis.
Santos was one of those geniuses on the edge of insanity. :salute
I respectfully acknowledge the non-US contributiions to flight. But, it was the Wright brothers who pioneered controlled, heavier-than-air flight. They worked with their own wind tunnel, reworked lift tables, and deisgned their own engine.
On the OP, yes, to the D.520. Plus the MB.150 and the M.S.406. While we're in the year 1939, let's throw in the Fokker DXXI and the Ki-27.
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:rofl
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How about a few sweet MTO French D-11 Jugs skins to start:
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/LAFAYETTE-N05.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/LAFAYETTE-N04.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/LAFAYETTE-N06--P47-N38.jpg)
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There are three french skins for the P-47D-25 right now and one for the P-39Q
and whoever makes french jokes, blame it on the same reason the US gave up in Vietnam, politics, although the french were fighting germany throughout the whole war in some form of another, weather it be the French Foreign Legion, or the FFI, they were always fighting
:aok
(http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/other/dewoitine_d_520.sized.jpg)
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that bird is beaultiful and Im all for early war. +1
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See Rule #4
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isnt it against the rules to discuss stuff like that?
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The French planes the game needs most are the Spads and Nieuports.
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Try to keep it on-topic, guys.
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My favorite part was when the USA had to liberate France because they were out of the war by 1940. :ahand
The US didn't liberate France, the Allies did.
The French fought just as hard as any other country in the war, they got their butts kicked, happens all the time.
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I like it :aok+1
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60 rounds I'm pretty sure.
not enough lol
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not enough lol
I could get 4 or 5 kills with 60 rounds, you are forgetting about the 4 7.7mm's in the mix aswell, this thing would be a killer
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Santos was one of those geniuses on the edge of insanity. :salute
I respectfully acknowledge the non-US contributiions to flight. But, it was the Wright brothers who pioneered controlled, heavier-than-air flight. They worked with their own wind tunnel, reworked lift tables, and deisgned their own engine.
On the OP, yes, to the D.520. Plus the MB.150 and the M.S.406. While we're in the year 1939, let's throw in the Fokker DXXI and the Ki-27.
I would pass the MB.150 Fokker and Ki and trade it by a Potez twin-engined light bomber - can't remember the model now - add maybe a french bomber (Leo & Olivier) and a SM.79...
BTW, don't forget Bartolomeu de Gusmão experience at Lisbon - in the lighter than air area - and Clément Ader in France in the heavier than air section. This was, in fact the first heavier-tha-air, powered, flight. Short, low and hardly controlled, indeed, but a fact.
Cheers,
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+1
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There are three french skins for the P-47D-25 right now and one for the P-39Q
and whoever makes french jokes, blame it on the same reason the US gave up in Vietnam, politics, although the french were fighting germany throughout the whole war in some form of another, weather it be the French Foreign Legion, or the FFI, they were always fighting
:aok
(http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/other/dewoitine_d_520.sized.jpg)
I would say that there is a difference in "giving up" in your own country and giving up in someone else's country.
BTW the US didn't give up Vietnam they just left.
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D.520 didn't make it in time or in numbers. With the organization structure of the French Air Force the time, they were also scatered.
It was a very small percentage of the air force in total. The more likely candidates, making up much larger numbers of actual front line units and seeing more actual combat, were the earlier models. Ms.406s and Curtiss Hawks were in great numbers.
There were 67 squadrons of fighters in May 1940 according to the following very interesting link:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1985/sep-oct/kirkland.html
However questionable the kill listings are there, it seems they have done some checking and probably at least have the basic numbers and breakdown of the French forces reasonably correct.
It says:
"The first two squadrons equipped with the fast and agile Dewoitine 520 entered the battle on 13 May; eight others completed conversion training and became operational before the armistice."
Another resources says 36 (maybe 2 squads of 16?) were in service at the start of the war. This same time showed the French and Belgian air forces having 780 total fighters. Of which 36 were D.520s.
While they ramped up production and rushed training as much as they could, the link I posted up there shows a very curious view on the French at the time. They were stockpiling fighters anywhere they could, but had no pilots to fly them! Trying to hide their weakness due to internal politics, they kept accepting more and more shipments of planes from French companies as well as Allied imports, they couldn't even utilize them all! While they had a large air force, only 1/4 to 1/5 of this could ever be flown at one time. They had aging pilots and had to sacrifice some of those from front-line units to help train yet more.
So, in short, even though they increased numbers that actually served during the very short Battle of France, the D.520 was a minority player. It was a star and gets lots of credit, but it didn't get the majority of kills nor did it get the lion's share of the combat.
My $0.02 is the D.520 doesn't have much place in this game. Unless we really start expanding other early war planesets more important than the French lineup, I also would say the other French craft take a back burner to other nation's planesets right now.
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I would say that there is a difference in "giving up" in your own country and giving up in someone else's country.
BTW the US didn't give up Vietnam they just left.
Don't forget that Vietnam was French Indo-China before it was Vietnam. The French "gave up" and left about 1960ish, if I recall correctly. The US action in Vietnam was partly a clean up effort of the mess that the French walked out on. Unfortunately, the US didn't have the political will tofinish the job either.
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My $0.02 is the D.520 doesn't have much place in this game. Unless we really start expanding other early war planesets more important than the French lineup, I also would say the other French craft take a back burner to other nation's planesets right now.
D.520 certainly played a larger part in WWII than the C.205, Ta152, Me163, Ar234 and Ostwind.
I can't see any reason you would claim it has no place in the game, particularly given your fondness for the C.205.
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I could get 4 or 5 kills with 60 rounds, you are forgetting about the 4 7.7mm's in the mix aswell, this thing would be a killer
gimmie a tater and every round is a kill lol
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D.520 certainly played a larger part in WWII than the C.205, Ta152, Me163, Ar234 and Ostwind.
I can't see any reason you would claim it has no place in the game, particularly given your fondness for the C.205.
stinky bait Karnak. More than the ta152 for sure, maybe the ar234... but not the others.
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stinky bait Karnak. More than the ta152 for sure, maybe the ar234... but not the others.
What, from memory, the 500+ D.520s delivered before the fall of France, 100+ kills through the war are less significant than the complete non-contributions of the Me163 and Ta152 and the extremely minor contributions of the Ar234, C.205 and Ostwind?
I think you either grossly underestimate the D.520's service or greatly overestimate the Me163, Ar234, Ostwind and C.205's service.
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Karnak is correct, D.520 Served almost the entire war is some form of another, as a matter of fact, I think it would be not a far stretch to say that more D.520's were built then C.205's, Ta-152's and Ostwinds combined
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Karnak is correct, D.520 Served almost the entire war is some form of another, as a matter of fact, I think it would be not a far stretch to say that more D.520's were built then C.205's, Ta-152's and Ostwinds combined
it's use wasn't limited to the start of the war indeed, occupied France still used em as front line fighter, not with great success IIRC, but it was used.
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In occupied you mean Vichy correct? I am just wondering? from what I hear after the liberation, FFI used them aswell to support ground forces
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That 20mm cannon was the same as the p39D's smaller cannon?
Anyway, this is a little beauty. Way more advanced design than the hurricane, i am curious what was its performance compared to the spitfire 1. Anyone have detailed information about it?
The only problem is, it had a very short frontline serice period. I dont think the germans used it in the front line, and not sure if the Vichy-France sent forces to the front. There are fighters produced in way higher numbers that we dont have. I would like it to be added tho, but there is a priority factor.
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Its was used by Vichy in North africa for a short time, as for performance , it was a slower but much more manuverable 109E
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Its was used by Vichy in North africa for a short time, as for performance , it was a slower but much more manuverable 109E
Vichy Brewster :lol
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I don't see any reason not to add the D.520 other than HTC resources.
It would expand the planeset and give CM teams more to work with.
:aok
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My $0.02 is the D.520 doesn't have much place in this game. Unless we really start expanding other early war planesets more important than the French lineup, I also would say the other French craft take a back burner to other nation's planesets right now.
It is an unfortunate reality that early war birds end up as hangar queens in the MA. In my opinion, the early war birds are interesting because they reflect interwar theories that were yet to be proven in combat: more variety. Late war birds are the result of convergent evolution: all very similar.
Another resources says 36 (maybe 2 squads of 16?)
Is this metric math?
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The French defeat in Vietnam was in 1954 at Dien Bien Phu.
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The French defeat in Vietnam was in 1954 at Dien Bien Phu.
Yes, but this is WWII.
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My $0.02 is the D.520 doesn't have much place in this game. Unless we really start expanding other early war planesets more important than the French lineup, I also would say the other French craft take a back burner to other nation's planesets right now.
Just knew :bhead Krusty would be along as soon as he saw france in the title to beat up the D.520
with his blurred representation on france fighting in WW2
I give his post on this subject a solid 93 on the KrustyBSmeter