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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Rob52240 on April 02, 2011, 12:36:42 PM

Title: Russian Spits
Post by: Rob52240 on April 02, 2011, 12:36:42 PM
I don't know how to make skins but these might be cool.

(http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae209/thedevilsbrigade1/1_2_1.jpg)

(http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae209/thedevilsbrigade1/538tvp9.jpg)

(http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae209/thedevilsbrigade1/100520012424534316067963.jpg)

(http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae209/thedevilsbrigade1/stock-photo-soviet-winter-painting-version-of-english-spitfire-supermarine-wwii-fighter-drawings-from-d-model-51925876.jpg)
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: EskimoJoe on April 02, 2011, 12:38:51 PM
We do have a 'custom sounds and skins' forum, just FYI.

Also, somebody will be along shortly to tell you why these profiles
wouldn't be allowed.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Rob52240 on April 02, 2011, 12:40:55 PM
Because they were lend lease planes?
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: shotgunneeley on April 02, 2011, 02:55:51 PM
Because they were lend lease planes?

P-39q and brewster have soviet and Finnish skins, respectively, but were both American designs
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 02, 2011, 02:59:48 PM
Because they were lend lease planes?

The Soviets really didn't like them and the Soviet Spitfires were quickly withdrawn from the frontlines to rearguard operations under the PVO.  Don't know why people would be against including Soviet Spitfire skins.  Before they were withdrawn from the frontlines, the Soviet Spitfires did see action in both the general war and in the Continuation War with the Finns.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Motherland on April 02, 2011, 03:09:37 PM
Also, somebody will be along shortly to tell you why these profiles
wouldn't be allowed.
They are allowed, we have VVS skins for the Spitfire MK V, XI, and XVI IIRC.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Karnak on April 02, 2011, 03:15:37 PM
The Soviets really didn't like them and the Soviet Spitfires were quickly withdrawn from the frontlines to rearguard operations under the PVO.  Don't know why people would be against including Soviet Spitfire skins.  Before they were withdrawn from the frontlines, the Soviet Spitfires did see action in both the general war and in the Continuation War with the Finns.


ack-ack
As far as I recall, they did like them quite a bit.  They stayed in service in the Soviet Union until well after WWII was over.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: icepac on April 02, 2011, 03:25:42 PM
Wasn't there a russian hurricane with a rear gunner?
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Karnak on April 02, 2011, 03:27:38 PM
Wasn't there a russian hurricane with a rear gunner?
No.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Raphael on April 02, 2011, 03:28:07 PM
._. a rear gunner?!
(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/KleinBernhard/6755L.jpg)
"During WW II, several Hawker Hurricanes were delivered to the Soviet Union, and were subject to numerous modifications, some rather far-going. In one of the modified batches the Hurricanes were equipped with additional post for a rear gunner with a ShKAS machine gun. These aircraft were used for long range artillery spotting. The gunner was also a spotter to correct the artillery fire. In order to facilitate his task, a port was cut out in the bottom of the aeroplane. Some 20 aircraft were converted that way. They flew in Leningrad, Volkhov, Kalinin Fronts."

IS THIS TRUE?!
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Guppy35 on April 02, 2011, 03:29:31 PM
Top Spitfire is a recce bird and unarmed.  The other profiles are speculative based on less then perfect photos. 
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Tilt on April 02, 2011, 03:45:24 PM
As far as I recall, they did like them quite a bit.  They stayed in service in the Soviet Union until well after WWII was over.

IIRC they didn't like the Merlin engine. It was not up to the usual standard of VVS frontline maintenanace and required fuel the VVS did not have in any abundance. An additive was developed and used with Spitfires and Hurricanes to over come the problem of fuel but still the Merlin was seen as "sensitive" beside Klimov, Ash and Allison engines.

Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: stealth on April 02, 2011, 04:59:28 PM
Russian acsent plus spitfire = awesome. Good day my friends.
+1
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: MachFly on April 02, 2011, 05:59:45 PM
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9720/75276418.jpg)

We have one for Spitfire mk IX.




I personally like to fly planes with the skins from the country that made it, but I guess I can say +1 to this as it seems there are people who want to fly with those skins.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Imowface on April 02, 2011, 07:00:51 PM
IIRC they didn't like the Merlin engine. It was not up to the usual standard of VVS frontline maintenanace and required fuel the VVS did not have in any abundance. An additive was developed and used with Spitfires and Hurricanes to over come the problem of fuel but still the Merlin was seen as "sensitive" beside Klimov, Ash and Allison engines.


this, and the AA gunners kept on mistaking them for Bf-109's
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Pigslilspaz on April 02, 2011, 10:10:16 PM
P-39q and brewster have soviet and Finnish skins, respectively, but were both American designs

The Brewster we have is the finnish version. If we had the US one it would be a complete dog like everyone says it would be. Even the Vehicles list says that the Brewster we have is FINNISH
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: EskimoJoe on April 02, 2011, 10:19:25 PM
Top Spitfire is a recce bird and unarmed.  The other profiles are speculative based on less then perfect photos. 

This is what I was waiting for.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: MachFly on April 02, 2011, 11:09:26 PM
This is what I was waiting for.

So your saying Spitfires with Russians skins are not allowed in AH because there is one model without guns?
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: EskimoJoe on April 02, 2011, 11:34:20 PM
So your saying Spitfires with Russians skins are not allowed in AH because there is one model without guns?

That's what Guppy is saying, I didn't realize the first was a recce bird. Still, the second part
may still apply to the first profile.

Top Spitfire is a recce bird and unarmed.  The other profiles are speculative based on less then perfect photos.  

Don't think I could make it any more red than that...
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: MachFly on April 03, 2011, 12:02:57 AM
That's what Guppy is saying, I didn't realize the first was a recce bird. Still, the second part
may still apply to the first profile.

Don't think I could make it any more red than that...

Well...first you quotes his whole post so I did not know exactly what you were talking about.

So what exactly did you mean why this:

Also, somebody will be along shortly to tell you why these profiles
wouldn't be allowed.

I understand Rob did not post the image of the whole Spitfire, just the side, but that does not mean it can not be used to find out what the whole skin looks like.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Guppy35 on April 03, 2011, 12:06:47 AM
So your saying Spitfires with Russians skins are not allowed in AH because there is one model without guns?

No idea on Soviet Spit Vb or IX skins.  Considering the number of RAF, RAAF, USAAF etc skins that are out there for combat Spits, I'd think a Soviet skinned bird would be down the list, but that's not my call.  

As for a recce Spit.  It would be similar to letting a 38 skinner do a haze paint recce 38. It would look nice but no guns.  Not a fighter.  We don't have recce birds with no guns.   The Spitfires that have been done that are based on recce birds are fighter recce, meaning they have the guns and the camera was an afterthought :)  The Pink Spit IX and I are good examples of that.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Guppy35 on April 03, 2011, 12:15:19 AM
This is the photo that the profile of Spit Vb EP510  "538" is made from.  If that's an arrow on the fuselage, I sure don't see it.  Folks have been speculating on this one forever.  I don't buy it.

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Spitfire/MkVb-USSR-57GvIAP-EP210/images/1-MkVb-USSR-57GvIAP-538-EP210-Kuban-1943-01.jpg)
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: EskimoJoe on April 03, 2011, 09:03:59 AM
Well...first you quotes his whole post so I did not know exactly what you were talking about.

So what exactly did you mean why this:

I understand Rob did not post the image of the whole Spitfire, just the side, but that does not mean it can not be used to find out what the whole skin looks like.

They didn't look accurate to me. I'm no skinner or historian, but they just didn't
look quite right. They may be allowed, but as Guppy said, they'd probably
be pretty far down the list.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: 1Nicolas on April 03, 2011, 09:22:43 AM
I think it's a good idea.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: SlapShot on April 03, 2011, 11:16:57 AM
No idea on Soviet Spit Vb or IX skins.  Considering the number of RAF, RAAF, USAAF etc skins that are out there for combat Spits, I'd think a Soviet skinned bird would be down the list, but that's not my call.  

As for a recce Spit.  It would be similar to letting a 38 skinner do a haze paint recce 38. It would look nice but no guns.  Not a fighter.  We don't have recce birds with no guns.   The Spitfires that have been done that are based on recce birds are fighter recce, meaning they have the guns and the camera was an afterthought :)  The Pink Spit IX and I are good examples of that.

Isn't the pink Spit9 skin we have a "recce" skin ?
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: mbailey on April 03, 2011, 11:38:14 AM
The Soviets really didn't like them and the Soviet Spitfires were quickly withdrawn from the frontlines to rearguard operations under the PVO.  
ack-ack

Any info on this, you've really peaked my curiosity now. ( I mean that sincerely )
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Guppy35 on April 03, 2011, 02:17:37 PM
Isn't the pink Spit9 skin we have a "recce" skin ?

Fighter Recon.  It's a Spit IX fully armed with a camera added.  We have a Spitfire I that's also pink and armed too that was also a recce bird.

The recce blue painted Spits were unarmed PRIV, PRIX, PRXI, PR19

There were FRIXs and FRXIVs.  Kinda the same as the F6A, F6C and F6D/K  Mustangs.  Kept their guns but had cameras too.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: SlapShot on April 04, 2011, 11:59:10 AM
Fighter Recon.  It's a Spit IX fully armed with a camera added.  We have a Spitfire I that's also pink and armed too that was also a recce bird.

The recce blue painted Spits were unarmed PRIV, PRIX, PRXI, PR19

There were FRIXs and FRXIVs.  Kinda the same as the F6A, F6C and F6D/K  Mustangs.  Kept their guns but had cameras too.
:rofl ... so is that a yes or a no ?

Isn't recce slang/abbrev for Reconnaissance ?
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Krusty on April 04, 2011, 12:48:30 PM
This is the photo that the profile of Spit Vb EP510  "538" is made from.  If that's an arrow on the fuselage, I sure don't see it.  Folks have been speculating on this one forever.  I don't buy it.

Guppy, based on many other arrows the Soviets loved to paint on any number of planes, it definitely follows the pattern and shape.

The only question is: What's with the definition there? Is it fading away? Is it overpainted but showing through? And what's that little "leg" up on the top cowling doing there?

So it definitely looks like the typical arrow design Soviets put on any plane they wanted. That's not the question. The question is why it looks like it does, why it's so hard to get a clear outline on it, etc.

And just as a general quick-search to show how common and every day these arrows were on VVS craft:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/aircraft-pictures/41600d1299771767t-some-prifiles-my-archive-gurgidze-yak-9-polozk-44-risunok-tehnik-v.safronov-65-giap.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7905/yak90d.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9347/yak1y.jpg
http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/boxart/zvezda/zvezda_il-2-1942.jpg
http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/Immagine-043.jpg

And even here in AH:
http://www.netaces.org/skins/la7/default.jpg
http://www.netaces.org/skins/la5fn/skin2.jpg
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Krusty on April 04, 2011, 12:51:09 PM
:rofl ... so is that a yes or a no ?

Isn't recce slang/abbrev for Reconnaissance ?

There were different ways of doing it. There were some dedicated variants of planes that had all guns removed to save weight and carried only cameras.

Such UNARMED recon planes are not allowed for in-game skins.

Planes that retained guns but may have also had cameras fitted were fighter recon, and these skins will be allowed (and have been allowed already).

IMO the question would be did any particular VVS Spitfire skin see combat? If so it's game. If not it's wasting limited skin slots on a skin that never saw combat. One of the criteria for skins was to have seen combat, last I recall (hence no unarmed recon, no training units, no state-side units, etc)
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 04, 2011, 01:21:58 PM
IMO the question would be did any particular VVS Spitfire skin see combat? If so it's game. If not it's wasting limited skin slots on a skin that never saw combat. One of the criteria for skins was to have seen combat, last I recall (hence no unarmed recon, no training units, no state-side units, etc)

The Soviet Spitfires did see active combat in the Continuation War and I'm sure along other fronts before being withdrawn from front lines service to rearguard POV squadrons.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Krusty on April 04, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
Yes, Ack, I got that part. I mean any potential skin request. You would ask that to any specific profile.
Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 04, 2011, 04:40:50 PM
Yes, Ack, I got that part. I mean any potential skin request. You would ask that to any specific profile.
Here is a photo of a Merlin 64 engined Spitfire Vb of the 3rd Squadron of 57th GIAP that took part in the Kurban battle.

(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/Spitfire_028_EP210.jpg)

I can't read the Russian caption but this is supposed to be the same Spitfire pictured above.  I read that the arrow on the side was painted later on but only have seen it in illustrated profiles.  All photos of 538 show it with the original RAF paint scheme.

*EDIT* Actually, you can barely make out the arrow in the photograph, I guess the contrast blocks most of it out.

(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/538_t.jpg)

I know these images are from a model kit but they do show specific plane profiles.
(http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/images/AMLD72018.jpg)


There is enough out there to create a legitimate VVS Spitfire skin that would qualify.

Good information on this site on the Soviet Spitfires.  
Spitfires over the Kuban (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/index.htm)

ack-ack




Title: Re: Russian Spits
Post by: Guppy35 on April 04, 2011, 10:38:19 PM
Here is a photo of a Merlin 64 engined Spitfire Vb of the 3rd Squadron of 57th GIAP that took part in the Kurban battle.

(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/Spitfire_028_EP210.jpg)

I can't read the Russian caption but this is supposed to be the same Spitfire pictured above.  I read that the arrow on the side was painted later on but only have seen it in illustrated profiles.  All photos of 538 show it with the original RAF paint scheme.

*EDIT* Actually, you can barely make out the arrow in the photograph, I guess the contrast blocks most of it out.

(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/538_t.jpg)

I know these images are from a model kit but they do show specific plane profiles.
(http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/images/AMLD72018.jpg)


There is enough out there to create a legitimate VVS Spitfire skin that would qualify.

Good information on this site on the Soviet Spitfires.  
Spitfires over the Kuban (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/index.htm)

ack-ack

That's no arrow.  No way, no how :)  Note I posted that same image earlier :)