Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Kazaa on April 04, 2011, 02:06:12 PM

Title: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: Kazaa on April 04, 2011, 02:06:12 PM
...to being hit by a .50 cal round? In this case lets use the A6M5, reason being it's the plane I will be using in my next composite.

Would it either:

Leave a bullet sized hole and shatter the pane.
Fracture a chunk of the pane larger than the bullet hole, leaving minimal to no shattering.
Blow the whole pane in.

Cheers fellas. :salute
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: oakranger on April 04, 2011, 02:15:33 PM
Was the canopy of Japan made of different composite material to that of the U.S.?
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: Kazaa on April 04, 2011, 02:17:26 PM
I have no idea. I'm praying that one of our distinguished history buffs will swoop in and save the day.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: oakranger on April 04, 2011, 02:25:53 PM
I have no idea. I'm praying that one of our distinguished history buffs will swoop in and save the day.
I am going to say that there was.  Besides some AC, like the 109 had a think bullet proof glass plat in the back, i think there was a differences.  Even between fighters and bombers too.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: Wmaker on April 04, 2011, 02:36:10 PM
A hit on the BW-372 (Worlds only original Brewster left) canopy plexiglas:
(http://www.pienoismallit.net/media/kuvat/03/01/51/030151.jpg)
Photo (c) Harri Huopanen

http://www.pienoismallit.net/galleria/referenssi_3090/ (http://www.pienoismallit.net/galleria/referenssi_3090/)

Unfortunately, there's a good change that that hit came in 1998 and by a 9mil. :rolleyes: :( But I think it's suits the purpose.

EDIT/Shows just the thumbnail for me for some reason. Check the link Kazaa./EDIT
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: Kazaa on April 04, 2011, 02:42:17 PM
My original feeling was that a .50 cal round to plexiglass would fracture a big chunk from the pane (see above). An armoured pane would shatter but still be intact.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: Wmaker on April 04, 2011, 02:44:31 PM
My original feeling was that a .50 cal round to plexiglass would fracture a chunk from the pane (see above). An armoured pane would shatter.

Yeh, Aces High's A6M5 doesn't have any armored glass.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: mechanic on April 04, 2011, 02:46:37 PM
What is it, direct hit, glancing blow, from head on, from chase....lots of different situations that would change stuff.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: Kazaa on April 04, 2011, 02:48:23 PM
The situation would be from head on perspective.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: W7LPNRICK on April 04, 2011, 03:02:27 PM
deleted

  
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: mechanic on April 04, 2011, 03:46:49 PM
I don't know the answer, just thought we should clarify what type of impact you wanted.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: AirFlyer on April 04, 2011, 06:57:41 PM
Yeh, Aces High's A6M5 doesn't have any armored glass.

It should, the front cabin window should be armored glass or whatever it's made out of.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: Kazaa on April 04, 2011, 07:28:11 PM
The front glass doesn't look armoured.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: Pigslilspaz on April 04, 2011, 08:32:46 PM
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/BeauFlakhit.jpg)

Photo of a Beaufighter, took a dead on hit by a Japanese 20mm.
No one was injured, just some glass splinters flying around in the cockpit.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: AirFlyer on April 04, 2011, 09:52:17 PM
The front glass doesn't look armoured.

Can't say much there, cabin armor was actually an addition to the A5M5b to be exact though. I'm pretty sure it's only that panel directly in front of you though, none of the others were armored and the cage and such is mostly 3-ply wood so take your chances I suppose.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: Bodhi on April 04, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
I don't deal much with Japanese stuff, but most of their stuff had real laminated glass in their panels.  Laminated glass generally shatters when hit by a round or splinter.  Either can penetrate but the panel generally stays intact owing to the lamination.  Based upon my experience with US aircraft from WWII, synthetic glass sometimes allows a hole and remains intact and sometimes shatters.  It seems to depend on the impact angle and what actually hit it.  Also, the surrounding frame and it's ability to absorb impact energy is also a factor.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: LLogann on April 04, 2011, 10:25:22 PM
What did you just say?   :headscratch:  Laminated glass will crack shatter but certainly doesn't brake apart. 

I don't deal much with Japanese stuff, but most of their stuff had real laminated glass in their panels.  Laminated glass generally shatters when hit by a round or splinter.  Either can penetrate but the panel generally stays intact owing to the lamination.  Based upon my experience with US aircraft from WWII, synthetic glass sometimes allows a hole and remains intact and sometimes shatters.  It seems to depend on the impact angle and what actually hit it.  Also, the surrounding frame and it's ability to absorb impact energy is also a factor.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: W7LPNRICK on April 04, 2011, 10:46:47 PM
That photo looks like a subsonic bird strike on a modern fighter.

(http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/_db/_images/Birdstrike.jpg)  
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: Saxman on April 04, 2011, 10:48:38 PM
That photo looks like a supersonic bird strike on a modern fighter.

(http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/_db/_images/Birdstrike.jpg) 

He says as he posts a photo of the very sub-sonic Harrier attack plane....

:D
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: W7LPNRICK on April 04, 2011, 10:51:57 PM
He says as he posts a photo of the very sub-sonic Harrier attack plane....

:D

Huh? What? I did know that.   :D  No afterburners, very short battle radius, but awesome to watch take-off ANY TIME, ANY WHERE!  :banana:
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: Bodhi on April 04, 2011, 10:55:57 PM
What did you just say?   :headscratch:  Laminated glass will crack shatter but certainly doesn't brake apart. 


That is exactly what I said.  The panel remains intact.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: LLogann on April 05, 2011, 11:39:31 AM
Gotcha... Had to reread it.   :cheers:

That is exactly what I said.  The panel remains intact.
Title: Re: How would a WW2 era canopy react...
Post by: IrishOne on April 05, 2011, 12:04:26 PM
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/BeauFlakhit.jpg)

Photo of a Beaufighter, took a dead on hit by a Japanese 20mm.
No one was injured, just some glass splinters flying around in the cockpit.

 :O

That photo looks like a subsonic bird strike on a modern fighter.

(http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/_db/_images/Birdstrike.jpg) 

 :O :O