Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Voodoo38 on April 12, 2011, 01:02:35 AM
-
I would like to get some opinions on learning curves in this game as far as fighters. One of the things I find most interesting is some guys play for a couple months and are extremely good. Then on the other hand theres guys that play for 5 to 6 years and suck in a fighter like myself. Are you guys like "Grizz" or "SHawk" that are really good, doing a lot of reading on ACM or do you just have a knack for it or what is it ? Is it due to good controllers and computer equipment ? Did you grow up around this stuff or know someone that was a fighter jock ? Guess im askin cause im pretty dang good in a gv or bomber but I cant really hold a good fight in a fighter. I plan on returning to the game soon but have made a promise to myself I wont be back until I know everything there is to know about ACM. At one time I got so frustrated that I wouldnt even up a plane unless it was a bomber. Nothing fun about flying 10 minutes to get your butt shot down by someone like Grizz that I did everything in my power to evade. I wont say I suck but after 5 years I dont feel like im where I should be. Any helpful opinions or ideas or anything would be greatly appreciated. I'm also reading a book right now by Bob Shaw called Fighter Combat Tactics and Manuevering. Have any of you heard of it ? Has it helped any ? Thanks to all ! :cheers:
-
You can read all you want, but it will take actual experience to apply it. When you come back I suggest you use .join (ask first) with someone you know is good... a few flights and you might see things start to click where you can start the process on your own.
-
You can read all the books in the world, understand ACM like a pro, have great gear, and an aggressive mindset... It truly comes down to who you fly against. I learned more in one dueling tournament (3 weeks or so before I got knocked out) than I did in the first two years I flew in the MAs. Fly against people that kick your butt on a constant basis, and do it over... and over... and over.... Eventually you'll find that it takes them a few seconds longer to kill ya.
EDIT: Wasn't it Bob Shaw that had a bit of an issue while flying with HiTech in his RV?
-
Eyes outside the cockpit.
ALWAYS!
-
As stated before, you'll get better with experience. The best advice I ever got was to fight someone better than you and learn how they keep killing you, how they fly their plane, and eventually you will get the hang of it.
Before you know it you'll be watching the enemy plane, know exactly what his flight path will be, and how to maneuver yourself into a firing position.
-
As stated before, you'll get better with experience. The best advice I ever got was to fight someone better than you and learn how they keep killing you, how they fly their plane, and eventually you will get the hang of it.
Before you know it you'll be watching the enemy plane, know exactly what his flight path will be, and how to maneuver yourself into a firing position.
^^^^^^
This and...
Once you do saddle up on someone, always assume someone is doing the same to you.
-
You said you were good in GVs. Why? Because you spent a lot of time in them I'll bet. Now think about this, there are a limited number of moves to learn and remember in GVs. That number may be 50 or 100, but when fighting in fighters there are THOUSANDS of moves to learn and remember.
The top sticks spend hours on hours of time flying fighters to learn as many of those moves as possible. Had you not spent any time in GVs and buffs you'd be one of the better stick now. :)
-
Stick Time
Fight anyone and everyone
Film your fights and review them
Never give up
-
Hang with it I'm just starting to get out of the everyones killin me stage but its taken time and getting lucky.
Pick one aircraft and learn it, always be lookin around because it WILL mean the difference between advantage ina fight or goin down ridin silk.
Find a good stick on your side who you can observe and fly with. ask questions.
-
Stick Time
Fight anyone and everyone
Film your fights and review them
Never give up
^^^THIS
Analyze your films. Watch the energy levels (altitude and airspeed). Note when the fight changes....do you start with advantage and lose it? The best fights are ones that you start out at a disadvantage and come out on top. Most importantly: note the mistakes you are making and change what you are doing.
The best pilots I see fly with 'relaxed aggression' they don't always go for the throat immediately. They know the strengths and weaknesses of their aircraft as well as their opponents and fly to their strength. Finally...they are good to great shots....they don't need you in the pipper very long to kill you.
These are just a few things you can work on.
-
I would like to get some opinions on learning curves in this game as far as fighters. One of the things I find most interesting is some guys play for a couple months and are extremely good. Then on the other hand theres guys that play for 5 to 6 years and suck in a fighter like myself. Are you guys like "Grizz" or "SHawk" that are really good, doing a lot of reading on ACM or do you just have a knack for it or what is it ? Is it due to good controllers and computer equipment ? Did you grow up around this stuff or know someone that was a fighter jock ? Guess im askin cause im pretty dang good in a gv or bomber but I cant really hold a good fight in a fighter. I plan on returning to the game soon but have made a promise to myself I wont be back until I know everything there is to know about ACM. At one time I got so frustrated that I wouldnt even up a plane unless it was a bomber. Nothing fun about flying 10 minutes to get your butt shot down by someone like Grizz that I did everything in my power to evade. I wont say I suck but after 5 years I dont feel like im where I should be. Any helpful opinions or ideas or anything would be greatly appreciated. I'm also reading a book right now by Bob Shaw called Fighter Combat Tactics and Manuevering. Have any of you heard of it ? Has it helped any ? Thanks to all ! :cheers:
Learn as much as you possibly can from other pilots & analyse each flight one of your flights (recording flights helps a lot). I recommend you read the book "No Guts No Glory" by General Blesse, buy every episode of dogfights and watch each episode two times or more, make sure you understand each maneuver. Take a lesson in a real airplane (one should be enough). Try to spend at least 3 hours a week in AH, and do not take breaks that last more than two days. Practice your maneuvers offline and fly with someone (by someone I mean someone who is not a BnZmer and has a K/D of 3+) as a wingman. If you do this you should be good in about 6 month (don't expect to be the best, it will take a lot more time).
Pick one airplane and stick to it, learn every detail of it.
"There's no such thing as a natural-born pilot"
Chuck Yeager
Good Luck :aok
-
I learned a ton in the AVA years ago, was some really good sticks in there that i learned a lot from.
-
I'm sure there is some natural ability at play, some people tend to be better at certain things than others. I also believe that there's always room for improvement, natural ability may shorten the time table somewhat but no one around here got good w/out working at it. Understanding theory and reading about the concepts at play is a good start but skills like judging another planes E state, and developing a fine feel for the controls is something that just has to be accomplished through repetition and practice.
I read Shaw's book years ago and it gave me a couple things to think about but I feel at the time I didn't understand the "how" and "why" of the things he was saying so I don't think it helped me very much, if I read it now it may click a little more.
Try not to compare yourself to other players, which is easier to say than to do but everyone progresses at their own pace. Measure your progress against yourself and it will make for a more pleasant and less stressful experience.
-
There are two kinds of fighter pilots in this game. Those that take the time to learn ACM/tactics and take the time to gain experience and learn from their mistakes to improve themselves.
Then there is the other pilot, the one with the desire for instant gratification that can't be bothered to take the time to learn anything beyond rudimentary ACM and tactics in favor of learning the "trick de jour" above all else. Sure, these guys might get good so that in a few months after starting to play, they'll have their names show up in the chat buffer with XXX amount of kills being landed and all the accolades that brings forth. The problem with this kind of player is that they spend so much time learning a trick or two that when faced with a fight that does not fit nicely into their "comfort zone", they lack the necessary ACM and tactical experience to think beyond their established moves and cannot properly react to the changing situation in the fight.
In the long run, the player that took the time to actually learn ACM and tactics will in the end triumph over the one that is playing for instant gratification. The player will also have a much more rich playing experience and will also more likely stay for the long run instead of getting burned out once their "trick" no longer works.
ack-ack
-
I'm sure there is some natural ability at play, some people tend to be better at certain things than others. I also believe that there's always room for improvement, natural ability may shorten the time table somewhat but no one around here got good w/out working at it. Understanding theory and reading about the concepts at play is a good start but skills like judging another planes E state, and developing a fine feel for the controls is something that just has to be accomplished through repetition and practice.
All true. And some people really do have a better sense of timing and motion than others, which pays off in this game.
The worrisome thing about the original post was the notion that the player didn't want to re-enter the game until he knew everything there was to know about ACM. It won't happen. Even people like Batfink and Shane get better as they gain more experience and think more about their fights.
- oldman
-
Patience is key, do not force anything. Use lube when needed.
-
"everything there is to know about ACM. "
What's so hard about flying a Chog and shooting everyone in the face.
I don't understand the problem unless you need a third hand to taunt
your victim on 200 by yelling at THEM, "Nice HO, ho"
-
All true. And some people really do have a better sense of timing and motion than others, which pays off in this game.
The worrisome thing about the original post was the notion that the player didn't want to re-enter the game until he knew everything there was to know about ACM. It won't happen. Even people like Batfink and Shane get better as they gain more experience and think more about their fights.
- oldman
... as well as when making nausea-inducing landings in a wicked cross-wind :rock
:salute
-
... as well as when making nausea-inducing landings in a wicked cross-wind
A better sense of timing and motion probably would have prevented the nausea.
Thanks anyway!
- oldman
-
I can't help you.
999000 <S>
-
:headscratch: lol 999000 I know you of all people cant help me you bomber jock. The last time i saw you, you were landing b-17s on a carrier and you did it too. lmao.
-
but time is the key..... gotta get out there and do it.
-
Basic ACM is transferrable from sim to sim but the toughest curve is learning the flight and gunnery models.
Me?......The longer I play, the more I find myself avoiding flying the uber rides and ignoring common sense in sorties to extract the most fun I can by doing things such as taking off while a horde is over the field, landing and taking off planes from hanger roofs and the cruiser stern, and baiting bomber busters by flying a fighter with drop tanks over enemy HQ.
-
What an excellent discussion!
Helm ...out
-
I love learning curves... excellent foreplay
-
I didn't read anyware in your post that you fly with a wingman. You might try winging up with someone and fighting as a winged pair.
-
All great advice from some of the best in the game
.
Personally i'm on a 20 year learning curve, being halfway there, I still suck,hehe.
when I upgrade my crappy equipment, I'm gunna visit the training guys, without a doubt. Tho my fighter work will get better, my score probably won't, not so long as my 'fun' includes ,as like Icepac said, doing things not conducive to a good score. I am looking forward to training, maybe then I can shoot Shane down, ;)
-
Honestly, the natural learning curve of this game to become really good while just flying in the main arenas is >5 years, no joke. You can super condense that down to something like 6 months though, if you spend a lot of time dueling good sticks in the DA.
-
Honestly, the natural learning curve of this game to become really good while just flying in the main arenas is >5 years, no joke. You can super condense that down to something like 6 months though, if you spend a lot of time dueling good sticks in the DA.
That depends a lot upon talent and understanding of tactical principles of aircombat. There are some *cough* that never dueled in the DA or hooked up with a trainer yet still manage to get "really good" in much less than 5 years. Others can be trained and duel their butt off in the DA for years and still never get beyond "mediocre" (which of coursel doesn't say anything about the most important thing: Having fun)
Though I'm afraid we can argue a lot about what is being considered "really good". You happen to have a definition?
-
Though I'm afraid we can argue a lot about what is being considered "really good". You happen to have a definition?
sure... :aok
(http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/swatpeace/reallygood.jpg)
-
its hard..but to me thats what makes it fun for me....i really enjoy knowing that someone else is flying that cartoon plane and besting them
TheDude
-
The only thing I can think of to add, is that the amount of time you play makes a big difference. The "Best" I ever was, I was playing a ton of hours, had the wife mad at me for the one and only time that I've been 'flying' and it's about all I was thinking about. I was tough to beat, but I reached a point where I wasn't having fun anymore.
Not saying that's true of everyone, but there is a balance between understanding the ACM and the tricks of the trade and applying them often enough to maintain your edge. I consider myself able to put up a fairly good fight when I run up against a good stick, but I don't fly enough anymore to not suffer from the rust when I'm in that fight.
All that being said, I think the biggest challenge is to continue getting better while not losing sight of having fun each time you fly. It can sometimes be a tough balance, in particular when you are having 'one of those nights' where you feel like nothing is working.
-
Arrange training sessions with a AH Trainner
practice your gunnery skills
-
sure... :aok
(http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/swatpeace/reallygood.jpg)
:lol
-
Hmmm one thing I noticed was missing from all the suggestions and advice. Pick one plane and stick with it for several weeks at least until you REALLY learn the strengths and weaknesses of that particular airframe. I remember way back when, when I first started playing I was trying every plane in the set, one after the other, and getting my butt handed to me all the time. When I finally calmed down and picked a ride and stuck with it, I found my K/D ratio steadily climbing and my overall performance improving. Most of the top sticks from when I was playing on a regular basis had a small handfull of aircraft they excelled in and they flew those aircraft all the time. Get them out of their comfort zone and most of them turned into average to slightly above average sticks. Put them into their ride of choice and they were deadly.
Now I haven't been playing for several years now, but the itch is back and I should be back in the virtual skies again soon. I plan on picking a ride and flying it almost exclusively, and most likely it will be a midwar type aircraft. Alot of peoples scores should go way up once I start playing again.
-
I hit the learning curve wall about a year in and thought i'd never get any better, then I did. patience and a good attitude will take you far. Although, dont expect miracles. The learning curve is still REALY steep even if you start landing kills on a regular basis theres always someone out there to shatter your bubble.
<S>jd
-
Hmmm one thing I noticed was missing from all the suggestions and advice. Pick one plane and stick with it for several weeks at least until you REALLY learn the strengths and weaknesses of that particular airframe. I remember way back when, when I first started playing I was trying every plane in the set, one after the other, and getting my butt handed to me all the time. When I finally calmed down and picked a ride and stuck with it, I found my K/D ratio steadily climbing and my overall performance improving. Most of the top sticks from when I was playing on a regular basis had a small handfull of aircraft they excelled in and they flew those aircraft all the time. Get them out of their comfort zone and most of them turned into average to slightly above average sticks. Put them into their ride of choice and they were deadly.
Nope I got cha :aok on page one