Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: SmokinLoon on April 14, 2011, 06:33:17 PM
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I've been a part of numerous discussions regarding the upcoming changes to the tank control interface, which also leads to chatter about the changes in the correctly modeled tank sights. I'm not sure what the current default zoom ability is (does anyone?), but whatever it is I have a hunch it is more than 6X, which is what the best zoom is going to be (Firefly). As most everyone knows, currently in AH all of the tanks have the same zoom capability, the same exact reticule, and many have the same field of view. The only difference currently in the reticules is the trajectory. Below I'm listing the zoom capability and field of view of each tank so people can contemplate just how different the tank game is going to be (or maybe not at all?).
M8: 3x w/ 12 degree FOV.
M4-75: 3x w/ 12 degree FOV.
M4-76: 5x w/ 13 degree FOV.
T34/76: 2.5x w/ 25 degree FOV.
T34/85: 2.5x w 25 degree FOV.
Firefly: 3x-5x w/ 13 and 9 degree FOV.
Pnzr IX: 2.4x w/ 25 degree FOV.
Panther: 2.5x-5x w/ 28 and 14 degree FOV
Tiger: 2.5x-5x w 25 and a4 degree FOV.
The 2 tanks most effected are probably the T34/85 and Panzer IV. Both sport capable and able long range firepower, but the lower zoom for them is not going to lend to as accurate of shooting at long ranges when compared to the Firefly, Panther, Tiger, or even the M4/76. Anyone willing to bet those 4 having an even better K/D ratio than they currently do once the new version arrives?. :)
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Hopefully the more realistic tank optics will result in more realistic tank battles.... from all of my reading, it was a rarety for a tank to even hope for a kill beyond 1000 yards, and most engagements were closer range than that, the exception being the later heavy tanks such as the Tiger and the TD's which actually had stand-off kill capability....
As much fun as GVing is in AH, these 2.5-3K 1-shot kills some of these guys pull off are so far removed from what the real tanks were capable of it's rediculous.
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What will the commander's max zoom be?
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What will the commander's max zoom be?
Good question. I could not gather that information from Pryo's video. I dont recall seeing him zoom in/out while in the TC's position. It would make sense to give the TC a fixed zoom w/o reticule, etc, based on the binoculars that were issued by each county. I pretty sure the Soviets, Germans, British, and Japanese all issued binoculars w/ 6x zoom, at least to the infantry. The US issued binocs with 7X zoom, iirc.
EDIT: i just re-watched Pryo's video and he did zoom while in the TC's position. I cant be sure what zoom power it is. Take a look for yourself and see what you think. :)
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Well the vid's a WIP... I think the historical binocs is probably better ground for speculation/predictions..
What I was thinking was that the TC's binocs would be a factor in comparing tanks' performance if e.g. they had better zoom than the turret optics.
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As the higher magnification helps some tanks at long range, the larger field of view will help other tanks acquire targets more rapidly. The large field of view could give the t-34s an advantage as camp breakers. The combination of high mag and field of view may be something to give the panther and firefly an advantage over the tiger. I guess this will only come into effect if the targeting from the commander's position approximately aligns the gun sight with some random variation or if it is pin-point accurate.
Does anyone have a guess at what magnification we have been working with in the current version? Considering how big a tank is in your gun sight at 1k out with the current magnification we might all be used to a 10x magnification and the change to 2.5 or 5 could be drastic.
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As the higher magnification helps some tanks at long range, the larger field of view will help other tanks acquire targets more rapidly. The large field of view could give the t-34s an advantage as camp breakers. The combination of high mag and field of view may be something to give the panther and firefly an advantage over the tiger. I guess this will only come into effect if the targeting from the commander's position approximately aligns the gun sight with some random variation or if it is pin-point accurate.
Does anyone have a guess at what magnification we have been working with in the current version? Considering how big a tank is in your gun sight at 1k out with the current magnification we might all be used to a 10x magnification and the change to 2.5 or 5 could be drastic.
I'm not sure of the formula, but with no zoom from the CT's position, at 600 yards a T34 is just over a 16th of an inch long while zoomed fully it is 2 and 1/16th inches long. I found all kinds of formula online but the one I needed (maybe there isnt one???).
It appears as if we are in for a major change in magnification! LOL! I cant wait! Who bets we hear within 30 min of the new version a "I can't see chit!" thread! :rofl
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I cant wait for it. Historically the germans optics were far superior to that of the allies. But as the war progressed it did even out. Like a previous poster said the 2k and 2.5k kills in this game were not the norm in 1940-1945. I hope it brings more fun to the GV game by making people manuver rather than camp. I know I am guilty of camping but with the ability to standoff and shoot as we can in the game there is no incentive to manuver in the game. We shall see what it does to the game. I wonder just how historically accurate the sights will be for the different tanks.
BigKev
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how historically accurate the sights will be
You mean the reticles?
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You mean the reticles?
Yes, that is what I meant.
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Do you have any pics of any of historical ones? Does the one we have now represent an actual historical one?
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Do you have any pics of any of historical ones? Does the one we have now represent an actual historical one?
I dont have any since I got a new cpu but I did find some at one time since then. I can try to dig them up again and try to post them.
BigKev
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That'd be cool, no hurry. If you remember any keywords to search for myself on the net, that'd work too.
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Do you have any pics of any of historical ones? Does the one we have now represent an actual historical one?
(http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx154/mohaam0nkey/tanksight.jpg)
found a panther one
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Interesting thread about the reticles I stumbled on to: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=25785&page=2 (http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=25785&page=2)
EDIT/More interesting stuff:
http://pedg.yuku.com/topic/1728/t/Ranging-Turmzielfernrohr-TZF-9b-gun-sight-optics.html (http://pedg.yuku.com/topic/1728/t/Ranging-Turmzielfernrohr-TZF-9b-gun-sight-optics.html)
(http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/e523606210877cb97190ea8b94a1c9f98d04e9ca.pjpg)
(http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/f3016219747ce599c77e9e3be6a5d69731b616b7.pjpg)
(http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/33d16e137775e895c1d62684d27b7fb11565e813.gif)
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That'd be cool, no hurry. If you remember any keywords to search for myself on the net, that'd work too.
Moot, the guys that posted above are on point with the sights I remember having for german tanks Try checking armchair general as I think those pics are about as close to the real optics as you are gonna get. I dont remember exactly how I typed it but I searching under training manuals for the specific type of gun and after going through a ton of links I found a manual for the german 75mm gun and it showed what the sight picture would look like and how to aim (much like what a prior poster put up). I will work on this over the weekend and hopefully find something.
BigKev
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I'd seen the general idea for german sights, but I'm curious if the reticles we have in the game are taken from a historical sight, or just made up.
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I'd seen the general idea for german sights, but I'm curious if the reticles we have in the game are taken from a historical sight, or just made up.
By watching Pryo's video, and from memory, it appears as if the current "one size fits all" reticule we have in AH is based on the US M.70 series of tank sights as seen in the M8, M4/75mm, and M4/76mm.
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Cool, thanks Loon.
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The 2 tanks most effected are probably the T34/85 and Panzer IV. Both sport capable and able long range firepower, but the lower zoom for them is not going to lend to as accurate of shooting at long ranges when compared to the Firefly, Panther, Tiger, or even the M4/76. Anyone willing to bet those 4 having an even better K/D ratio than they currently do once the new version arrives?. :)
I bet there will be a lot of changing around relating the perk cost of tanks in the future.
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I bet there will be a lot of changing around relating the perk cost of tanks in the future.
yeap. I'll bet the Firefly, Panther, and Tiger all become that much more valuable. The M4/76mm as well, but to a lesser degree.
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Here is the "No.43 x 3 ML Mk.III / I" gun sight for the Sherman Firefly VC's main gun, the 17 Pdr Q.F. Mk IV L/55.
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg169/JRBL1A1/17pdr004.jpg)
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I found a few pics of the T34/1943 version, but I can not seem to get them posted to photobucket using my laptop (PC is in the shop getting de-bugged and upgraded).
Anyone know which T34/76 we have in AH? Did the T34 use the same sight for all versions with the 76mm gun?
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It would be cool if they extended the range of the mg rounds to around 2000 yards so that it could be used as a range finder. That firefly sight has the mg scale on the right. You pop off a few mg rounds till you see hit sprites, take not of the range on the mg scale, then adjust the main gun to that range and fire. A lot of people can do it by sight much faster, but it wouldn't hurt the poor shots or newer players to use it.
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I think with the new sights coming in it will change the way we GV as far ranging targets. It will require a lot of trial and error until you understand the sight of the specific tank you are using. If someone masters it quicker than others so be it. Take time to hit the TA. I cant wait.
BigKev
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It would be cool if they extended the range of the mg rounds to around 2000 yards so that it could be used as a range finder. That firefly sight has the mg scale on the right. You pop off a few mg rounds till you see hit sprites, take not of the range on the mg scale, then adjust the main gun to that range and fire. A lot of people can do it by sight much faster, but it wouldn't hurt the poor shots or newer players to use it.
It is hard enough to see impacts at 600 yards with 8x optics. I cant imagine trying to see them at 1500 yards like we do now let alone 2000 yards.
Like BigKev pointed out, each sight has particular perks that will need to be learned. For instance, not many people know that the current tank gun reticule in AH (it is based off the U.S. M70 tank sight, I dare say) goes by 200 yards intervals. Meaning, each vertical line represents a 200 yards drop in impact AND that each gap between each of the vertical lines represent 200 yards in drop as well. I try passing on that information as often as I can while playing. I'd call out a range of 2200 yards and a number of fellow tankers would ask "how do you know, there is no 2200 yards listed?", I'd explain it just as I did above and the usual "ah, that makes sense" would be the typical response.
I think those people who learn and understand the tank sights are going to have the most luck and fun in tanks. The playing field wont be as even like it is now. It will take some expertise for sure. I too am waiting as patiently as I can for the next update. It isnt like Im constantly online to see if the next version has arrived or anything. :D
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Even without magnification the hit sprites and dirt splashes from mg are easily visible at ranges up to the ~1.5k where the rounds are no longer rendered. This is illustrated by defensive guns on bombers/whirbles being used at these ranges; you know when you are landing hits because you see the sprites.
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But before you find that working solution, it won't be as easy telling just how close/far you're shooting behind/ahead of your target.
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But before you find that working solution, it won't be as easy telling just how close/far you're shooting behind/ahead of your target.
I agree Moot. It will take more to learn the lead of targets with the new sights along with what range the target is in the sight. The Panther sight as seen in the you tube video of the sight is spot on historical and it will require to set the range and then fire aand when you facotr in leading a target yes it will require more (IMO) that what we do now in the gun sight. But still I cant wait to learn the new sights.
BigKev
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As much fun as GVing is in AH, these 2.5-3K 1-shot kills some of these guys pull off are so far removed from what the real tanks were capable of it's rediculous.
6.5k shots are the ones I like to do anyway :rock :eek:
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WAY TO GO, HTC!!!!! :aok
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Anyone know what the tick mark milliradians are for the new T34 sight? The tics of all tanks used to be 5 mR, I think. The new T34/85 appears to have ticks (distance between the colons or the ^ marks) of about 8 mR?
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This answers my question:
If you wish to know sight marking sizes or spacing bring up the target at 3333 yards. Then Each circle will be 1 mil.
HiTech
The distance between the ^ marks in the T34/85 are indeed 8 mils. So if a Panzer (19.5 ft long) is side on and just fits between two ^ marks of the T34/85 sight, it's at a range of 812 yds. If it fits between a ^ and the adjacent : then it's 1625 yds, etc.
The tick marks on the T34/76 are 2 mils.
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WAY TO GO, HTC!!!!! :aok
+ 1
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It took me a few days to get accustomed to the new GV controls and even the sights from the TC perspective, but I must say the change in optics was actually a welcome sight (no pun intended). Back in the old days, lol, 1995-96, I remember playing a game that was I think called Panzer Commander for PS1. It was a prettt awesome game that allowed you to roll around in a number of WW2 Tanks in certain WW2 Battles such as Villers Bocage and Kursk. The optics in that game were basically the same as the new ones just implemented (historical) and I have been able to kill enemy Armor much quicker and with almost pinpoint accuracy. :aok :aok HTC!