Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 16, 2011, 05:55:32 PM

Title: A-20G question
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 16, 2011, 05:55:32 PM
If we do not have the .30 cal then are we still lugging around a 145lb man, his .30 and the ammo with it, including the gear needed "high alt breather,seat...30 cal mount .ect .ect. Without having the position itself?

Sure its not 1000k of weight saved or gained for the lack of a .30 cal,but wouldn't it matter?


If we Do have the added weight without the .30 position, then how much weight would be saved without it? "what im wondering is are we technicly lugging around 250+ lb's of worthless weight in our current A20G model?"
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: lyric1 on April 16, 2011, 06:05:31 PM
50 Cal on the G model.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan11.jpg)
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 16, 2011, 06:18:53 PM
No the real A-20G is suppose to have x6 .50's in the nose, x2 up top and x1 .30 under.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: SmokinLoon on April 16, 2011, 06:40:32 PM
No the real A-20G is suppose to have x6 .50's in the nose, x2 up top and x1 .30 under.


What is your source of information?
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: Volron on April 16, 2011, 06:46:43 PM
When it comes to the Boston and A-20, I do not think anyone here knows more than lyric.  He's been pressing for the inclusion of the ventral gun, which I agree with him on.

As for an answer to your question, I do believe HiTech modeled it accordingly, IE: without the man and gear.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: lyric1 on April 16, 2011, 08:03:14 PM
No the real A-20G is suppose to have x6 .50's in the nose, x2 up top and x1 .30 under.

The above reference I listed uses Douglas as the source for what model had what gun? Since Douglas made the A-20 I have to go with Douglas on this one. That aside your point has merit is all that weight factored in? I don't know,with the 50 Cal set up it probably weighs more again than the 30 cal.

Either way I would say nothing will change until the A-20 Is up for a remodel.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: Wildcat1 on April 16, 2011, 08:38:50 PM
didn't most A-20 crews prefer to remove the ventral gun?
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: Widewing on April 16, 2011, 09:25:51 PM
The reason that the ventral gun is missing is simple.... HTC had no reliable data or photos of what the interior of the installation looked like at the time. Truth.

Maybe they will get around to updating the graphics model some day.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: MK-84 on April 16, 2011, 09:34:32 PM
Regardless of accuracy...What exactly does anyone expect to do with one .30 with a limited arc of fire?  I.E.  why do we care?  :bolt:
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: Pigslilspaz on April 16, 2011, 11:35:44 PM
Regardless of accuracy...What exactly does anyone expect to do with one .30 with a limited arc of fire?  I.E.  why do we care?  :bolt:

Believe it or not, I've killed folks with the ventral on the TBM, same gun, same position I'm pretty sure. It's quite fun.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 17, 2011, 12:03:28 AM
Thanks all for the answers.

So we may or may not have a A-20G that is over loaded with equipment that we cant use.


The recent model updates is what brought up the question, IF our A20G get remodeled,and the .30 is added "as htc now has a ton of info on the ventral gun that they did not have back in 01'" would our A20G handle the same, or would it handle as if the .30 is actualy there.


dang, i did not even take into account of drag, having a open port with a gun sticking out cant be all that more smooth.

:Edit: as far as the ventral being a .30 or .50 sure give me a .50 ANY dang day. @volron, i sure hope so.  :salute
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: cobia38 on April 17, 2011, 12:00:11 PM
 
 why on gods green earth would you even want to mess with a single .30, when you have 6 perfectly good .50s in the nose, with which you can hose any plane out of the sky with  :ahand
   If there is any gun updates it first should be the 4 x 20mm package in the nose.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: PFactorDave on April 17, 2011, 02:50:07 PM
 
   If there is any gun updates it first should be the 4 x 20mm package in the nose.

I would be flying that monster a lot!

+1  :aok
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: Karnak on April 17, 2011, 04:52:34 PM
  If there is any gun updates it first should be the 4 x 20mm package in the nose.
Negative.  We don't need the "F4U-1C syndrome" again.  You know, the one where a historically rare gun package is far and away the most common in the game.  It is the same reason we don't need Spitfires with four 20mm cannons.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: cobia38 on April 17, 2011, 06:25:09 PM
Negative.  We don't need the "F4U-1C syndrome" again.  You know, the one where a historically rare gun package is far and away the most common in the game.  It is the same reason we don't need Spitfires with four 20mm cannons.

  then perk it  :neener:  it would be no worst then mossy/110  so why cry ?
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: moot on April 17, 2011, 07:59:44 PM
I thought the chog was perked because it was upsetting the arena population balance?  An A20 with 4x20 is going to stay a niche ride, not like a quad spit or the chog.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: Karnak on April 17, 2011, 08:52:15 PM
 then perk it  :neener:  it would be no worst then mossy/110  so why cry ?
Mossie VI and Bf110G were all armed as they are in AH, so the comparison fails.  If most Mosquito Mk VIs were armed with four .303s, but a few replaced the forward half of the bomb bay's bomb load with four 20mm cannon and people were asking for the cannon version, I'd argue against them too.

I thought the chog was perked because it was upsetting the arena population balance?  An A20 with 4x20 is going to stay a niche ride, not like a quad spit or the chog.
My concern is relegating the historically common A-20G to obscurity in AH while the rare one gets all the use.  When that happens it really doesn't feel like we are playing with WWII equipment anymore and are edging more towards the arcade end of the spectrum.  Perking the four 20mm option might work, or just making it free.  If it were up to me I wouldn't do it, but it is HTC's call so we'll see when they redo the A-20G to AH2 standards.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: moot on April 17, 2011, 08:56:24 PM
... By any chance did the 20mm variant not carry bombs?  That could be a way to keep the .50 version popular.

just an off the wall idea.  I'd perk the 20 if it got that bad; a pretty simple solution once we get the perk loadout system (cause I wouldn't bet on em making a duplicate .plane slot for the 20mm variant - then again who knows).

Unimportant nit pick:  were all 110G's really armed as the AH?  As either 4x20 + 2x30 or 2x20 + 2x30.  Pretty sure I saw something else.. Though I was skimming thru the 110 section of the book I'm reading.  Either way, your point stands.  Just not sure the 110G's a good example.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: Karnak on April 17, 2011, 09:02:03 PM
I don't think the 20mm would have impacted the A-20's ability to carry bombs given the layout of the aircraft.

Bf110s aren't my strong point, but I have seen those armaments listed frequently.  I can't vouch for the accuracy of those sources though.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: moot on April 17, 2011, 09:03:23 PM
How rare was the 20mm A20G?

IIRC the 110 crews were asking for some time to get something else than the MG17s that were equipped where our MK108s are.   A lot like 410 crews (ZG26) asking for MK103s as early as... mid 43 IIRC.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: Widewing on April 17, 2011, 09:28:30 PM
How rare was the 20mm A20G?

0f the 2850 A-20Gs built, 259 were delivered with four 20mm and two .50 cal in the nose. Most were shipped to the Soviets under Lend Lease.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: moot on April 17, 2011, 09:50:58 PM
Thanks Widewing. That's one for every ten .50-nosed A20..  Seems borderline perk worthiness.  I imagine there was probably plenty of room for a lot of 20mm ammo for those cannons.
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: W7LPNRICK on April 17, 2011, 09:56:27 PM
Would it help me keep the wings on my a-20?  :banana:  :joystick:
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: lyric1 on April 18, 2011, 04:42:00 PM
The reason that the ventral gun is missing is simple.... HTC had no reliable data or photos of what the interior of the installation looked like at the time. Truth.

Maybe they will get around to updating the graphics model some day.
If HTC needed to get these pictures they can do that at the airforce museum in Dayton.  They have an A-20-G on display here.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/questions/topic.asp?id=192
Title: Re: A-20G question
Post by: TOMCAT21 on April 21, 2011, 10:21:10 AM
only the first 250 A-20G's made had the 4 x 20mm in the nose along with 2 x .50cals but they were replaced with .50 cals because the 20mm's proved to be unreliable. Among other things mounted on the A-20 we will problably not see: ferry tank that attached to bombbay, 6 T10 rockets as far as the .30cal goes, it is like any other round: it takes only one to hurt ya( pilot wound)