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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CAP1 on April 19, 2011, 07:20:46 PM

Title: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 19, 2011, 07:20:46 PM
for stupidity that is.

 i just finished replacing the pcv elbow that they;ve graciously placed underneath the lower intake manifold(3.0L DOHC). you know,....the same elbow that's almost ALWAYS been a problem on their pcv systems for at least the last 10 years? 'cept now, it takes about 2.5 hours to replace it, about $120 or so worth of new gaskets, and some skinned knuckles.

 as i was reassembling the intakes, plugging in the sensors, reconnecting the egr, etc., i noticed that it looked to have 2 power steering fluid reservoirs.
 i was wrong. i have now seen stupid(in my opinion anyway) that i truly believe will be nearly impossible to top.


 ladies and gentlemen..........i present to you........

 The 2001 Lincoln LS.

 it has fan fluid.  :noid :rofl :furious :noid :rofl :bhead :bhead
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: Devil 505 on April 19, 2011, 07:41:43 PM
Got you beat Cap.

2011 Silverado 2500/3500 HD Duramax diesel. Has a resovoir for "Emmision reduction fluid". This is injected into the exhaust stream post catalyst to capture particulates.

Thats right, myth has become reality.

Muffler Fluid  :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: Jayhawk on April 19, 2011, 07:43:11 PM
it has fan fluid.  :noid :rofl :furious :noid :rofl :bhead :bhead

What does it do?
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: icepac on April 19, 2011, 07:56:05 PM
Toyota camry does as well..........it has a hydraulic fan.

How about taking the heads off a terminator mustang............in the car...with arp head studs on the engine.

I could tell some horror stories like having to replace every valve spring in the lexus rear drive V6 cars and getting paid 6 hours to do it.........and having to do hundreds over the period of a year.

The lexus V6 is a dead ringer for the ford mod motor and taking it apart was exactly like taking apart the ford GT I work on.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 19, 2011, 08:13:15 PM
Got you beat Cap.

2011 Silverado 2500/3500 HD Duramax diesel. Has a resovoir for "Emmision reduction fluid". This is injected into the exhaust stream post catalyst to capture particulates.

Thats right, myth has become reality.

Muffler Fluid  :rofl :rofl

holy cartoon engineering batman!!!

maybe the ford engineer that designed the fluid driven fan defected, and went to work for gm?
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 19, 2011, 08:14:44 PM
What does it do?

it drives the engine cooling fan.

i'll snap a picture of it tomorrow.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: Jayhawk on April 19, 2011, 08:29:15 PM
it drives the engine cooling fan.

i'll snap a picture of it tomorrow.

Gotcha, that's what I figured.  Any clue why?
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: BrownBaron on April 19, 2011, 08:40:46 PM
Any clue why?

Nope, and neither did the engineer, methinks.  :rofl
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: ElGuapo1 on April 19, 2011, 08:56:53 PM
Frees up HP due to less belt drag?
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: Devil 505 on April 19, 2011, 08:59:27 PM
Frees up HP due to less belt drag?
Most vehicles today use electric fans, not belt driven.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: icepac on April 19, 2011, 09:09:31 PM
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd163/Keps-Photos/1MZ-FE%20Engine/hydraulicfan.jpg)
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: Masherbrum on April 19, 2011, 09:23:35 PM
for stupidity that is.

 i just finished replacing the pcv elbow that they;ve graciously placed underneath the lower intake manifold(3.0L DOHC). you know,....the same elbow that's almost ALWAYS been a problem on their pcv systems for at least the last 10 years? 'cept now, it takes about 2.5 hours to replace it, about $120 or so worth of new gaskets, and some skinned knuckles.

 as i was reassembling the intakes, plugging in the sensors, reconnecting the egr, etc., i noticed that it looked to have 2 power steering fluid reservoirs.
 i was wrong. i have now seen stupid(in my opinion anyway) that i truly believe will be nearly impossible to top.


 ladies and gentlemen..........i present to you........

 The 2001 Lincoln LS.

it has fan fluid.  :noid :rofl :furious :noid :rofl :bhead :bhead

The LS was Ford's attempt at combining "Jag and Lincoln" (the flags had to be waving at the first meeting).    Both the LS and S-Type were failures on the drawing board, but were still "put forth" by Trotman and solidified Nasser.  The DEW98 platform was a POS and is still in use by the Jaguar.  :rofl    Thank God they did not follow through with using the platform for the Zephyr/Milan/Fusion as originally intended.    

On top of a crappy chassis, the LS suffered horrible Electrical Issues amongst the (waiting for CAP) 5R55N "SelectShift" garbage transmission.   This transmission was a stop gap to try and "ensure 2nd gear starts" to meet EPA guidelines IIRC until '03.    The other 5R55's are better in terms of reliability, but the 5R55N rivals the C6 as the biggest POS Transmission Ford ever offered a consumer.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: Dichotomy on April 19, 2011, 09:53:13 PM
Quit picking on the enginerds.  Blame the designers that don't have to stake their reputations or professional liability on a dumb design.  It may 'work' and meet all the codes.  That doesn't make it a good idea. 

Exhibit A.  The cupholders in a 2000 Mustang 5 speed.  Way to go with the placement boys. 
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: Masherbrum on April 19, 2011, 10:12:00 PM
Quit picking on the enginerds.  Blame the designers that don't have to stake their reputations or professional liability on a dumb design.  It may 'work' and meet all the codes.  That doesn't make it a good idea.  

Exhibit A.  The cupholders in a 2000 Mustang 5 speed.  Way to go with the placement boys.  

I had a 96 F-150 w/ 5.0L and a 5 speed with no cup holders worthwhile.   I had no problems Shifting, Changing a CD and crotching a drink at 70mph+.      Although, If I'm not mistaken, you're referring to the "Front Spot" nearest the shifter.    :rofl    Furthermore, IIRC the 2002 console is a common "swap".  
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 19, 2011, 10:18:12 PM
Gotcha, that's what I figured.  Any clue why?

i would venture a guess that the old style viscous clutch fans, and the ecu controlled electric fans that've worked so well for over 25 to 50 years just weren't good enough.   :devil

 seriously, i don't know why they did it this way, but i plan to look into it, 'cause i am curious.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 19, 2011, 10:19:05 PM
Frees up HP due to less belt drag?

clutch fans draw less than 2hp i think. if there's a fluid reservoir, then there's also a fluid pump, which will also draw horsepower.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 19, 2011, 10:21:22 PM
Quit picking on the enginerds.  Blame the designers that don't have to stake their reputations or professional liability on a dumb design.  It may 'work' and meet all the codes.  That doesn't make it a good idea. 

Exhibit A.  The cupholders in a 2000 Mustang 5 speed.  Way to go with the placement boys. 

i gots a solution for that!!!!

get s hurst short throw shifter. then cut a 4" section outta your forearm. you'll never hit those cups again.  :devil :noid
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 19, 2011, 10:22:36 PM
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd163/Keps-Photos/1MZ-FE%20Engine/hydraulicfan.jpg)

hhmm....this shows the same pump driving the power steering, and the fan?

 the lincoln has two separate reservoirs......
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 19, 2011, 10:23:17 PM
The LS was Ford's attempt at combining "Jag and Lincoln" (the flags had to be waving at the first meeting).    Both the LS and S-Type were failures on the drawing board, but were still "put forth" by Trotman and solidified Nasser.  The DEW98 platform was a POS and is still in use by the Jaguar.  :rofl    Thank God they did not follow through with using the platform for the Zephyr/Milan/Fusion as originally intended.    

On top of a crappy chassis, the LS suffered horrible Electrical Issues amongst the (waiting for CAP) 5R55N "SelectShift" garbage transmission.   This transmission was a stop gap to try and "ensure 2nd gear starts" to meet EPA guidelines IIRC until '03.    The other 5R55's are better in terms of reliability, but the 5R55N rivals the C6 as the biggest POS Transmission Ford ever offered a consumer.

that wwould explain why the engine looked so much like the knocker in my friends jaguar...i think it was an xjs.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: 5PointOh on April 20, 2011, 01:12:26 AM
Quit picking on the enginerds.  Blame the designers that don't have to stake their reputations or professional liability on a dumb design.  It may 'work' and meet all the codes.  That doesn't make it a good idea. 

Exhibit A.  The cupholders in a 2000 Mustang 5 speed.  Way to go with the placement boys. 
  I can verify this, I have a 2000 console on my 95GT 5-Speed...there has been many spilled drinks and even more cussing.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: Tupac on April 20, 2011, 02:06:31 AM
The cupholders in my Taurus are only about 4" directly below the A/C control thing (I forget the name of it) so I can't fit anything bigger than an 8 ounce styrofoam cup in it.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: bozon on April 20, 2011, 04:16:05 AM
See Rule #6
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: Saxman on April 20, 2011, 07:30:10 AM
My Daytona's cupholder was built into the ash tray. It didn't do a very good job at the "holding" part, so I had many drinks go flying when I took a turn too hard. And it was a manual which meant I often didn't have a free hand to keep the drink in place. The door panels were also too thick to use the type that you hang from the window.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: MiloMorai on April 20, 2011, 07:51:24 AM
One shouldn't be drinking and driving.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: Dragon on April 20, 2011, 08:08:46 AM
Good thing I'm not number one.   :D
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 20, 2011, 08:26:20 AM
Good thing I'm not number one.   :D

 :rofl
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 20, 2011, 08:28:27 AM
JUST TEST DROVEthat lincoln this morning. took a couple pics of the underhood too.

 masher is 100% correct. the thing is a pos. i cannot possibly imagine why anyone looking for a lincoln would drive one of these....it rides like poop, handles slightly better, and stops about the same. it does have decent acceleration for a heavy v6 though.

 and this is coming from a guy that loves his fords........
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: SmokinLoon on April 20, 2011, 08:54:32 AM
JUST TEST DROVEthat lincoln this morning. took a couple pics of the underhood too.

 masher is 100% correct. the thing is a pos. i cannot possibly imagine why anyone looking for a lincoln would drive one of these....it rides like poop, handles slightly better, and stops about the same. it does have decent acceleration for a heavy v6 though.

 and this is coming from a guy that loves his fords........

Hmm.  I was actually impressed by the way the Lincoln LS handled.  About 4-5 years ago I test drove a model with the V8 (iirc) and it was rather nice.  The biggest thing that turned me off was the low slung seats, with my wife and I both being taller that didnt fit us well.  I felt as if I was only 6in off the ground.  It had ample power, conered at high speeds well, and braking was all the same.  Greanted, the ride was not like a Lincoln Continental but it wasnt as bad as a Camero either.  My wife and I "settled" for an '02 Merc Sable LS with all the bells and whistles, that 3.0 V6 is impressive.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: dedalos on April 20, 2011, 09:22:38 AM

Exhibit A.  The cupholders in a 2000 Mustang 5 speed.  Way to go with the placement boys. 

Still a problem?  Bahahahahaha.  On my 06  you could forget about second and fourth gear if you had a cup of coffee in the cup holder  :rofl
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: 63tb on April 20, 2011, 09:28:45 AM
I have a 1963 Thunderbird and the windsheild wipers are hydraulic, running off the power steering pump.

63tb
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: dedalos on April 20, 2011, 09:35:25 AM
clutch fans draw less than 2hp i think. if there's a fluid reservoir, then there's also a fluid pump, which will also draw horsepower.

And here is the problem with Detroit.  We really need 2hp to drive a fun?  :rofl  How match do the power windows need?  :rofl
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on April 20, 2011, 09:56:05 AM
Got you beat Cap.

2011 Silverado 2500/3500 HD Duramax diesel. Has a resovoir for "Emmision reduction fluid". This is injected into the exhaust stream post catalyst to capture particulates.

Thats right, myth has become reality.

Muffler Fluid  :rofl :rofl

It's probably urea. That's right - your emission reduction fluid is peese. In GM's defense, that's a regulatory compliance action, IIRC.

Otherwise, I won't defend any Ford design practices that date back to the "that" era. Hurricane J****** was indefensible (read the story of his involvement with Polaroid). I've heard of dumber things here on the inside but will not divulge them here.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on April 20, 2011, 10:01:06 AM
Urea is used in almost all euro diesels. VolksWagen, MB, Audi, BMW all use some form of 'bluetec' diesels which inject urea to the exhaust. Confusingly enough my Jeep uses the same exact engine as Mercedes Benz E/S/G/M 320 cdi bluetec except that the Jeep doesn't have the bluetec system. It still passes emissions control easily.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on April 20, 2011, 10:14:29 AM
Urea is used in almost all euro diesels. VolksWagen, MB, Audi, BMW all use some form of 'bluetec' diesels which inject urea to the exhaust. Confusingly enough my Jeep uses the same exact engine as Mercedes Benz E/S/G/M 320 cdi bluetec except that the Jeep doesn't have the bluetec system. It still passes emissions control easily.

I'll check this but I suspect it's because you don't have a particulate reg in force. I think the CARB rules went into effect in 1/2010. Usually the northeast follows some time thereafter. Not sure where you live but it's likely you don't have a reg on the matter. Europe does, imj.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on April 20, 2011, 10:46:15 AM
I'll check this but I suspect it's because you don't have a particulate reg in force. I think the CARB rules went into effect in 1/2010. Usually the northeast follows some time thereafter. Not sure where you live but it's likely you don't have a reg on the matter. Europe does, imj.

I live in northern europe, Finland.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: icepac on April 20, 2011, 11:02:51 AM
If that car had hydroboost replacing the brake booster, I would understand why they decided to use two separate fluid paths.

Toyota uses a filter in thier system but standard brake boosters.

I pull the MK8 engines all the time because they are superior starting point for a high HP build.

I will go the junkyard, pull one and quickly take off the heads and pan to check bores and bottom end.

If it's good, then I just paid 250 bucks for an engine that can make easily 500hp for the next 10 years worth of driving with no modifications other than what kind of forced induction I choose and tuning choices.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 20, 2011, 11:24:45 AM
And here is the problem with Detroit.  We really need 2hp to drive a fun?  :rofl  How match do the power windows need?  :rofl

well...in theri defense, horsepower takes fuel.....and with govt. regs, they're all trying to squeeze every ounce they can.

 that being said...i think it takes more power to drive the pump than it did to spin the fan......
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on April 20, 2011, 11:25:42 AM
I live in northern europe, Finland.

Interesting... and you're sure you've got a particulate requirement? I ask because if I take your argument as given, you've got the same engine as the Mercedes less the emmission equip in question yet you still pass emissions. This means that either:
1. your standard is differnet from the standard for which the Mercedes system was developed
or,
2. Mercedes has added cost for no reason
or,
3. you've misstated
or,
4. some combination of the above...

I think we can probably rule out #2 under Occam's razor. Trust me, this industry is quite sensitive to needless cost. Sometimes this leads to apparent paradoxes - like a wiring harness/loom that includes fittings for options you don't have. It's a cost of complexity save even as its partially offset with a material cost hit.

I'll see what I can find, as time permits.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: Shuffler on April 20, 2011, 12:03:07 PM
Got you beat Cap.

2011 Silverado 2500/3500 HD Duramax diesel. Has a resovoir for "Emmision reduction fluid". This is injected into the exhaust stream post catalyst to capture particulates.

Thats right, myth has become reality.

Muffler Fluid  :rofl :rofl

Ford also has that. It is filled with a fluid made from urine.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: BowHTR on April 20, 2011, 02:47:52 PM
for stupidity that is.

 i just finished replacing the pcv elbow that they;ve graciously placed underneath the lower intake manifold(3.0L DOHC). you know,....the same elbow that's almost ALWAYS been a problem on their pcv systems for at least the last 10 years? 'cept now, it takes about 2.5 hours to replace it, about $120 or so worth of new gaskets, and some skinned knuckles.

 as i was reassembling the intakes, plugging in the sensors, reconnecting the egr, etc., i noticed that it looked to have 2 power steering fluid reservoirs.
 i was wrong. i have now seen stupid(in my opinion anyway) that i truly believe will be nearly impossible to top.


 ladies and gentlemen..........i present to you........

 The 2001 Lincoln LS.

 it has fan fluid.  :noid :rofl :furious :noid :rofl :bhead :bhead

this reminds me, im running low on blinker fluid
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 20, 2011, 02:50:38 PM
this reminds me, im running low on blinker fluid

give em time.

customer: my car has a check engine light on. can you check it out?
me: sure can.

 later in the day..

me: ok....you've got a code for coolant temp high. i checked everything, and your fan fluid is low.
customer:...
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on April 20, 2011, 02:56:51 PM
Ford also has that. It is filled with a fluid made from urine.

right... the urea tank.
Title: Re: i think ford finally topped everyone
Post by: CAP1 on April 20, 2011, 03:17:58 PM
Ford also has that. It is filled with a fluid made from urine.

well..the fords that have that fluid made from urine are the mustangs.

 see? what it is, is that ya get some yahoo that thinks they know how to drive, and thinks they know what a fast car is, and they test drive one of these.
 these things are so much faster and better handling than these people think they are, that they scare the piss out of them. thus, the car is full of fluid made from urine.  :devil :noid