Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Bino on April 21, 2011, 10:22:57 AM

Title: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Bino on April 21, 2011, 10:22:57 AM
From time to time in here I see requests for some pretty cool seaplanes: Consolidated Catalina, Short Sunderland, Kawanishi H8K "Emily", etc.

But we'd require a reason to have seaplanes in the game.  Our current maps don't lack land bases, so one of the main RL reasons for using seaplanes does not exist in our little virtual world... yet.  The only uses for seaplanes that I've seen posted in here are:

1.) downed pilot rescue
2.) reconnaissance

Anybody out there with more ideas?

Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: waystin2 on April 21, 2011, 10:23:37 AM
PBY PBY PBY  :x
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: redwing7 on April 21, 2011, 10:33:14 AM
Sub hunting....... :noid
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Vudu15 on April 21, 2011, 10:47:52 AM
give ya a heck of a place to hide while running troops
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: gyrene81 on April 21, 2011, 11:10:56 AM
give ya a heck of a place to hide while running troops
lvt's already do that
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Wmaker on April 21, 2011, 11:16:48 AM
Anybody out there with more ideas?

A6M2-N Rufe already has a role. :) It could spawn from Ports and possibly coastal VHs. Would bring something totally new and different without needing extra work in creatng some sort of "role infrastructure".

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/A6N2-N_Rufe.jpg)
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: MachFly on April 21, 2011, 02:43:46 PM
From time to time in here I see requests for some pretty cool seaplanes: Consolidated Catalina, Short Sunderland, Kawanishi H8K "Emily", etc.

But we'd require a reason to have seaplanes in the game.  Our current maps don't lack land bases, so one of the main RL reasons for using seaplanes does not exist in our little virtual world... yet.  The only uses for seaplanes that I've seen posted in here are:

1.) downed pilot rescue
2.) reconnaissance

Anybody out there with more ideas?



I think it would be much easier to type .ef than wait for someone to come pick you up. Now say this system does get implemented, and you end up bailing out over a forest, would have have to run for 10 miles so someone could pick you up?

I would much rather do reconnaissance on something faster that can also defend itself.

There is no need for such a plane. Perhaps a Piper Cub that could spawn out of V bases to search for tanks (don't remember who brought up this idea), but something of the PBY size has no real place in AH.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: kvuo75 on April 21, 2011, 02:56:43 PM
A6M2-N Rufe already has a role. :) It could spawn from Ports and possibly coastal VHs. Would bring something totally new and different without needing extra work in creatng some sort of "role infrastructure".

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/A6N2-N_Rufe.jpg)

wasn't there a n1k on floats as well?
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Bino on April 21, 2011, 03:39:28 PM
wasn't there a n1k on floats as well?


Yes, the N1K was initially designed as a floatplane, and only re-done later as a land plane:

(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/NavyJB&W/Rex-5.jpg)

Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: kvuo75 on April 21, 2011, 10:02:57 PM
Yes, the N1K was initially designed as a floatplane, and only re-done later as a land plane:

(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/NavyJB&W/Rex-5.jpg)



thanks!

 :D

I think it could shoot down a PBY.   :D
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: icepac on April 21, 2011, 10:33:25 PM
Too bad "Murphy" didn't get his hands on one of them.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Guppy35 on April 22, 2011, 12:43:26 AM
This should kill the idea quickly :)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8DAL7gPYBiM/TSFjSjZq8RI/AAAAAAAAAsA/mOO10QHsk24/s1600/SpitFloatplane2.jpg)
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: MachFly on April 22, 2011, 01:11:01 AM
This should kill the idea quickly :)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8DAL7gPYBiM/TSFjSjZq8RI/AAAAAAAAAsA/mOO10QHsk24/s1600/SpitFloatplane2.jpg)


:rofl
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Pigslilspaz on April 22, 2011, 01:33:47 AM
I no longer want a seaplane in this game.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Ardy123 on April 22, 2011, 03:33:52 AM
In stead of having perfectly accurate radar, we could have radar that was 'semi accurate', then the need for recon and sea planes becomes more viable.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Bruv119 on April 22, 2011, 03:54:40 AM
This should kill the idea quickly :)


 :x   +1  !!

PBY will be cool just as a recon plane that could spawn at a port.   Ports are now the easiest things to capture by far with only one VH.

If it could carry say 5 troops or more?? you could try and launch a capture if the port is closer to the enemy field rather than with the mission.   Stick a bomber hangar on the current port object that is destroyable.   

Taking off and landing on water with the PBY will be VERY cool and a great reminder for all the sterling work it did throughout the war saving many pilots lives! 

Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: bangsbox on April 22, 2011, 11:24:07 AM
one prob i see with fighter sea planes is that if a pontoon ( i think thats whats its called) or float was shot off you will die. and i wouldnt even mined if we got the PBY and other big sea birds and they could only takeoff from runways... i can imagine it would be hard to change water so only certain planes could land on it so i really dont care if that ever happens. I just want a PBY with 2 torps please.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: BnZs on April 22, 2011, 11:41:14 AM
Roles for Seaplanes:
Target
Victim
Bait

Sounds good to me! +1!!!!
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: icepac on April 22, 2011, 01:38:51 PM
I'll see your supermarine and raise you a Macchi

(http://www.kilroywashere.org/09-Images/Woody/MacchiMc72.jpg)
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Wmaker on April 22, 2011, 03:19:27 PM
I'll see your supermarine and raise you a Macchi

(http://www.kilroywashere.org/09-Images/Woody/MacchiMc72.jpg)

440mph on the deck. :cool:
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: icepac on April 22, 2011, 05:47:33 PM
I'm curious why many ports can't spawn a pt boat.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: RTHolmes on April 22, 2011, 07:02:56 PM
Too bad "Murphy" didn't get his hands on one of them.

great movie :aok
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: icepac on April 22, 2011, 07:25:32 PM
Whoever did the audio for the plane in that movie deserves an oscar.

Amazing sound.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Hap on April 22, 2011, 07:33:01 PM
1.) downed pilot rescue  2.) reconnaissance

we have better faster stronger birds for recon.  pilot rescue won't hunt.  but for historical stuff, would be nice.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Karnak on April 22, 2011, 07:55:16 PM
Sunderland and H8K2 'Emily' would work just fine as bombers.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Guppy35 on April 22, 2011, 09:07:24 PM
If you were really going to be serious about seaplanes, I think you'd start with the PBY as it was used by RAF, RAAF, RNZAF, USAAF etc all over the place.   I think the Rufe would also be top of the list as they did get used all over the Pacific from the Aluetians to New Guiniea.  The Rufe is half done as is, with the new Zero modeling :)

Another of those down the list things, but I think if I had to start somewhere, that's where it would be.  Just my opinion of course
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: RTHolmes on April 22, 2011, 09:20:45 PM
I'll see your supermarine and raise you a Macchi

(http://www.kilroywashere.org/09-Images/Woody/MacchiMc72.jpg)

contra props? :confused:


all the seaplanes look like real pigs to fly ...
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Karnak on April 22, 2011, 09:37:02 PM
If you were really going to be serious about seaplanes, I think you'd start with the PBY as it was used by RAF, RAAF, RNZAF, USAAF etc all over the place.   I think the Rufe would also be top of the list as they did get used all over the Pacific from the Aluetians to New Guiniea.  The Rufe is half done as is, with the new Zero modeling :)

Another of those down the list things, but I think if I had to start somewhere, that's where it would be.  Just my opinion of course
Can't really agree with you on that one, Dan.  I don't see any real scenario use for flying boats, so I think MA viability has to play a major role in unit selection and both the H8K2 'Emily' and a later mark Sunderland would be much, much better for the MA.  In addition both the Sunderland and Emily also saw heavy use.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Guppy35 on April 22, 2011, 10:08:04 PM
Can't really agree with you on that one, Dan.  I don't see any real scenario use for flying boats, so I think MA viability has to play a major role in unit selection and both the H8K2 'Emily' and a later mark Sunderland would be much, much better for the MA.  In addition both the Sunderland and Emily also saw heavy use.

I agree it's not time yet.  I'm figuring down the line should be become more feasible. 
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Bino on April 23, 2011, 07:18:58 AM
A6M2-N Rufe already has a role. :) It could spawn from Ports and possibly coastal VHs. Would bring something totally new and different without needing extra work in creatng some sort of "role infrastructure"...

Have to confess I was thinking mostly of scenario use, but I like this idea for the MA.  :aok
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Vudu15 on April 23, 2011, 08:51:33 AM
lvt's already do that

so...

and what about the pete?
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: BaldEagl on April 23, 2011, 09:00:06 AM
I thought I remembered PBY's being able to carry small ord loads (bombs and torps) so there'd be a use for them.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: muzik on April 23, 2011, 05:30:53 PM
There could easily be roles for any float planes including PBYs. There is no reason not to have them.

One of the best reasons for having them is simply that they required an altogether different skill take of and land and were an important part of the war.

But plenty of other good reasons have been suggested. Pilot rescue would take no extra modeling other than the A/C. You land next to a downed pilot and stop within 50 yards, done. Pilot is rescued. Bomber perks should be awarded the pilot.

Recon. It could be arranged so that anyone flying a PBY over an enemy cv as if it was on a recon mission could be awarded perks for entering the dar circle of the enemy cv.

Role-Reward

And from what I hear about the cost of the B29 there should be more ways for players to increase their bomber perks.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: muzik on April 23, 2011, 05:39:26 PM
Can't really agree with you on that one, Dan.  I don't see any real scenario use for flying boats, so I think MA viability has to play a major role in unit selection and both the H8K2 'Emily' and a later mark Sunderland would be much, much better for the MA.  In addition both the Sunderland and Emily also saw heavy use.

Scenario use could be the same as it was during the war. Since in many scenarios defending fighters arent allowed to take off until some time after the attackers, PBYs could be an exception since in war time there were constant recon flights going on anyhow. So the defending team has a small chance of sighting the attackers before the fighters go up.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: fullmetalbullet on April 23, 2011, 07:35:56 PM
Scenario use could be the same as it was during the war. Since in many scenarios defending fighters arent allowed to take off until some time after the attackers, PBYs could be an exception since in war time there were constant recon flights going on anyhow. So the defending team has a small chance of sighting the attackers before the fighters go up.

could be used for midway scenario too. i believe the japanese fleet was spotted by PBYs.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: ScottyK on April 23, 2011, 08:18:37 PM
 add the PBY give it a small dar ring to make enemy CVs  visible.  flame on.
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: DemonFox on April 25, 2011, 01:18:48 PM
I agree with Scotty. PBY should be added and with a mini radar ring as a recon plane but only able to spot CV. The PBY could also be used at a medium bomber it could carry 4000lb and I think it should be able to carry 10 troops but only be able to land to relese troops.
<S> I'm the PBY version of Bar and his M-18  :noid
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 25, 2011, 01:57:35 PM
I think it should be able to carry 10 troops 

Why should it carry 10 troops when the PBY was not used as a troop transport other than for specialized operations?

ack-ack
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: AWwrgwy on April 26, 2011, 02:31:51 PM
I agree with Scotty. PBY should be added and with a mini radar ring as a recon plane but only able to spot CV. The PBY could also be used at a medium bomber it could carry 4000lb and I think it should be able to carry 10 troops but only be able to land to relese troops.
<S> I'm the PBY version of Bar and his M-18  :noid

PBY used Mk2 eyeballs, not radar for spotting ships.

CVs don't show up on radar now anyhow. Fix that.



wrongway
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Bino on April 27, 2011, 12:46:41 PM
Why should it carry 10 troops when the PBY was not used as a troop transport other than for specialized operations?

ack-ack

I've read that there were troop transport versions of the Kawanishi H6K "Mavis"...

(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/NavyJB&W/H6K-2s.jpg)
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 27, 2011, 01:11:46 PM
I've read that there were troop transport versions of the Kawanishi H6K "Mavis"...

(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/NavyJB&W/H6K-2s.jpg)


Three transport versions of the Emily.

H6K2-L (Naval Transport Flying Boat Type 97)
H6K3 Model 21 (Transport for VIP and high ranking officers) *2 built
H6K4-L

All transport versions were also unarmed.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Pigslilspaz on April 27, 2011, 02:53:35 PM
PBY used Mk2 eyeballs, not radar for spotting ships.

CVs don't show up on radar now anyhow. Fix that.



wrongway

I sorta see what Demon was saying, basically the radar ring would be what you can actually see in the game, so the ring would be about 6-8k radius. (about 1/5-1/7 sector length)
Title: Re: Role For Seaplanes
Post by: Bino on April 30, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
One more use I just came across: placing anti-ship mines.  

For example: during several nights in late April 1943, RAAF 11 Squadron used their PBYs to lay mines in both Silver Sound and Ysabel Passage between New Ireland and New Hannover (near Kavieng) to counter Japanese supply ships headed for Rabaul.  This was likely the earliest use by the RAAF of the PBY for mine-laying.*

In-game, mines might possibly delay CV respawns, actively sink ships that hit mines, delay supply barge respawns, etc.




* see "Australia in the War of 1939-1945: Air War against Japan 1943-1945" by George Odgers