Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: redman555 on April 26, 2011, 04:58:59 PM
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So I just bought a 91/30 Mosin Nagant. Unfortunately because of californias stupid gun laws I cant pick it up for 10 days. But I also bought 440 rounds online. I cant WAIT till next saturday. Im going to be there 20 min before the store opens, run in, grab it, run out and go clean it. Then going to shoot it! lol
-BigBOBCH
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Quick word of warning if you are a skinny guy.
On many of the Nagants, there is a round headed screw that holds the metal butt plate on the stock. It protrudes quite a bit. If you are a skinny guy (like I used to be when I got my Nagant) and go shooting in a T shirt (like I did the first time I took my Nagant shooting), that round headed screw will leave a nasty bruise on your shoulder (it did on me, complete with the screwdriver slot being visible.) :rofl
Now that I am older and fatter, it doesn't leave any marks.
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Welcome to the addiction.
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I just ordered a Rock Island Armory 1911-A1. Just couldn't pass it up for the price, about $400 for a new one. They are made in the Phillipines, but I have read some pretty good reviews on them lately.
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Quick word of warning if you are a skinny guy.
On many of the Nagants, there is a round headed screw that holds the metal butt plate on the stock. It protrudes quite a bit. If you are a skinny guy (like I used to be when I got my Nagant) and go shooting in a T shirt (like I did the first time I took my Nagant shooting), that round headed screw will leave a nasty bruise on your shoulder (it did on me, complete with the screwdriver slot being visible.) :rofl
Now that I am older and fatter, it doesn't leave any marks.
aha, naw man. Im 6'1 230.
-BigBOBCH
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Friend down the street has 2 of them that were actually used on the Eastern front in 1944. Unfortunately stupid Georgia laws prohibit use of them due to something along the lines of being to powerful for any of the gun ranges around here, or thats what my friend said. He has the original ammo and the original oil and grease in a little bottle in a pouch. Its pretty cool and he said when he finds a range he'll let me fire it. Thing is i've never fired a real fire arm in my life. :uhoh
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Word of advice. That ammo you bought is bound to be quite corrosive. Thorough cleaning procedures MUST be undertaken after each range trip. :old:
Enjoy your Mosin!! They are a lot of fun to shoot!
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinCleaning.htm (http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinCleaning.htm)
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Unfortunately because of californias stupid gun laws I cant pick it up for 10 days.
That's crazy. Here in the Communist People's Republic of Illinois, I can get a rifle after 24 hours and a pistol after 72 hours.
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So I just bought a 91/30 Mosin Nagant. Unfortunately because of californias stupid gun laws I cant pick it up for 10 days. But I also bought 440 rounds online. I cant WAIT till next saturday. Im going to be there 20 min before the store opens, run in, grab it, run out and go clean it. Then going to shoot it! lol
-BigBOBCH
Where was it made, etc.?
Mine's a Tula Hex Receiver but... the plot thickens... it's dated 1944 and the rest of the gun was built at Izhevsk, including the bolt (obviously it was rebuilt), but all of the serial numbers match so I'm assuming it was rebuilt in 1944 at an armory on an old receiver. It's also finished like a pre-war Nagant (it's got the brass pieces on the stock loops, single piece of wood for the stock and such).
It shoots surprisingly well, got one of those 440 round surplus tins for it too.
Friend down the street has 2 of them that were actually used on the Eastern front in 1944. Unfortunately stupid Georgia laws prohibit use of them due to something along the lines of being to powerful for any of the gun ranges around here, or thats what my friend said. He has the original ammo and the original oil and grease in a little bottle in a pouch. Its pretty cool and he said when he finds a range he'll let me fire it. Thing is i've never fired a real fire arm in my life. :uhoh
A Mosin Nagant isn't going to pack much more punch than your average hunting rifle. Granted, if he's shooting surplus ammo, I guess full metal jacket may be illegal for range use in some states? I'm pretty sure it's illegal for hunting, here at least...
Also, Mosin Nagant 91/30 + bayonet = sweet, long arse gun
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In Oregon with a CWP it's how fast can you pay for it, with no CWP maybe 15 mins tops if the FFL dealer is busy
edit... with no CWP during that 15 mins waiting there running you for a background and fingerprint check :aok
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Yeah I know its corrosive, I know how to clean it ;)
-BigBOBCH
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Mind you half our laws are stupid, but the other half are there for the even stupider.
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Mind you half our laws are stupid, but the other half are there for the even stupider.
Same reason that there is a warning on Preparation H that it shouldn't be take orally. :rofl
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Congrats! You will need an M38 and a M44 now.
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Congrats! You will need an M38 and a M44 now.
and an M39!
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Where was it made, etc.?
Mine's a Tula Hex Receiver but... the plot thickens... it's dated 1944 and the rest of the gun was built at Izhevsk, including the bolt (obviously it was rebuilt), but all of the serial numbers match so I'm assuming it was rebuilt in 1944 at an armory on an old receiver. It's also finished like a pre-war Nagant (it's got the brass pieces on the stock loops, single piece of wood for the stock and such).
It shoots surprisingly well, got one of those 440 round surplus tins for it too.
A Mosin Nagant isn't going to pack much more punch than your average hunting rifle. Granted, if he's shooting surplus ammo, I guess full metal jacket may be illegal for range use in some states? I'm pretty sure it's illegal for hunting, here at least...
Also, Mosin Nagant 91/30 + bayonet = sweet, long arse gun
I'm interested in which markings tell you where it was manufactured. I don't know much about my rifle.
Just forward of the bolt and behind the rear site there is a star with an arrow inside it. Underneath the star is the date 1933. The receiver is hex shaped forward of the bolt. The number on the receiver matches the number on the barrel.
I don't have a bayonet for my Nagant, but I do have a bayonet for my 1777 Charleville Musket. With bayonet attached, the weapon is about 72 inches long. Here's a short video clip of me firing it for the first time after I reworked the lock.
http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/?action=view¤t=VID_20110410_141640.mp4
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Two factories produced Mosin Nagants in the Russian Empire/USSR, Tula (whose mark, during the majority of production, was the star with the arrow inside of it, like on your rifle) and Izhevsk (whose mark is a triangle with an arrow inside of it).
The factory mark is on pretty much every place where there's a serial number, the receiver, buttplate, and trigger guard/magazine assembly thing (my handguard bands have them as well). My bayonet doesn't seem to have one, though.
Soviet ammunition is marked with factory # and production year as well on the rim of the casings, you can check out 7.62x54r.net for all of that.
The bayonet alone is the length of my forearm; the thought of being gored by that is even more terrifying to me than being shot.
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Two factories produced Mosin Nagants in the Russian Empire/USSR, Tula (whose mark, during the majority of production, was the star with the arrow inside of it, like on your rifle) and Izhevsk (whose mark is a triangle with an arrow inside of it).
The factory mark is on pretty much every place where there's a serial number, the receiver, buttplate, and trigger guard/magazine assembly thing (my handguard bands have them as well). My bayonet doesn't seem to have one, though.
Soviet ammunition is marked with factory # and production year as well on the rim of the casings, you can check out 7.62x54r.net for all of that.
The bayonet alone is the length of my forearm; the thought of being gored by that is even more terrifying to me than being shot.
That's interesting, thank you. I notice that my rifle's bolt has the triangle mark, so apparently at some point the original bolt was swapped out.
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...but I do have a bayonet for my 1777 Charleville Musket. With bayonet attached, the weapon is about 72 inches long. Here's a short video clip of me firing it for the first time after I reworked the lock.
http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/?action=view¤t=VID_20110410_141640.mp4
Nice! Impressive to see a flintlock with such a nice and short ignition time!
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Nice! Impressive to see a flintlock with such a nice and short ignition time!
Thanks! I put a lot of work into the lock to get it striking at a better angle. I bought a white lightning vent liner, but instead of installing it, I very slightly beveled the opening of the vent hole and got the nice results you see in the video clip.
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Thanks! I put a lot of work into the lock to get it striking at a better angle. I bought a white lightning vent liner, but instead of installing it, I very slightly beveled the opening of the vent hole and got the nice results you see in the video clip.
Well worth the effort you put into it, I think.
I've never tried the white lightning vent liners, but I've heard good things about them. I use the beveling trick on my vent liners though, and it makes a huge difference. On some of my earlier liners I actually drilled out the inside off the vent to a larger inside diameter, and then drilled the flash hole a bit larger too.
The increased inside diameter helped, but the larger flash hole was unnecessary. All it did was allow me to lose a few kernels of powder out of the flash hole if I had the gun loaded for a few days while hunting, which actually slowed my ignition. Fast on the range, but (sometimes) slow in the field.
Once I realized that, I went back to the smaller flash hole diameter. Occasionally, though, I may bore out the inside of the vent to allow the powder kernels to be right up next to the flash hole, where I can see them. I don't like a long "tunnel" between the outside of the vent hole and the powder. Now I get quick ignition no matter how long it's been loaded. I can also glance at my vent, and see dry powder kernels. With a sharp flint and a clean frizzen, I'm more assured or a positive, quick, ignition than any "high-tech" percussion gun I've seen...
Did you need to change the angle of the hammer to get the flint to strike at the correct angle? I've never gone quite to that extreme, although I had a rifle that performed best with an "upside-down" flint. Have you tried mounting the flint in lead instead of leather?
Sorry to misdirect your thread, I just lose interest in military weapons after 1840 or so (except F4U's, B25's, B17's, and P51's :aok). One of my flinters is a Brown Bess, so the Charleville is right up my alley too!
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That's crazy. Here in the Communist People's Republic of Illinois, I can get a rifle after 24 hours and a pistol after 72 hours.
That's because there's nothing of any value left to shoot in Illinois. :D
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Tula from 1930 to 1937.
(http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/0125.jpg)
as found here.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRef02.htm
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Did you need to change the angle of the hammer to get the flint to strike at the correct angle? I've never gone quite to that extreme, although I had a rifle that performed best with an "upside-down" flint. Have you tried mounting the flint in lead instead of leather?
I did change the angle of the hammer. It was a flint basher when I first got it, which I am told is actually historically accurate for the Charlevilles. But a little cutting and welding and grinding and polishing and it's hitting at a good angle now. I was able to shoot 20 consecutive times with no misfires with nothing but a damp patch down the barrel every other shot and a pick of the vent hole after the 10th. It did finally misfire on the 21st shot, but that was due to the powder fouling that had built up on the flint preventing a spark. A quick wipe of the flint with a damp patch and it was sparking like a champ again.
I did try the flint up side down before I altered the hammer, but I didn't think it improved the situation much.
I have not tried mounting the flint in lead, although I have read about that. Honestly, at this point in the game, I don't feel the need to do anything differently then what I have now. I'm pretty pleased with my results with the hammer change.
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Tula from 1930 to 1937.
(http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/0125.jpg)
as found here.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRef02.htm
Yup, that's pretty much what my Nagant looks like.
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I have not tried mounting the flint in lead, although I have read about that. Honestly, at this point in the game, I don't feel the need to do anything differently then what I have now. I'm pretty pleased with my results with the hammer change.
I don't think you'd benefit from it at this point. I was just curious about whether you'd tried it or not, and if so, what results you'd seen (if any). I've tried it, but haven't found it to matter much on my guns.
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My next test will be priming with FFg powder instead of FFFFg. If I still get good ignition, I plan to start making paper cartridges to load. I like the idea of loading the same way the soldiers did.
I was actually pretty pleased with the accuracy of the musket. I was able to consistently hit a steel torso target at about 30 yards with unpatched balls. Sure that isn't a great distance, but it is certainly far enough to deer hunt, if I become inclined to deer hunt with it. And if I did, I would patch the balls anyway.
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My next test will be priming with FFg powder instead of FFFFg. If I still get good ignition, I plan to start making paper cartridges to load. I like the idea of loading the same way the soldiers did.
I was actually pretty pleased with the accuracy of the musket. I was able to consistently hit a steel torso target at about 30 yards with unpatched balls. Sure that isn't a great distance, but it is certainly far enough to deer hunt, if I become inclined to deer hunt with it. And if I did, I would patch the balls anyway.
I've primed with 2F, with no issues. I'd go ahead and make some paper cartridges, lol! I made a bunch way-back-when for my Bess, and liked them. I even made a bunch for a Colt revolver, and they worked great. I bought a pad of onion paper and a bottle of potassium nitrate, and made my own paper in the kitchen.
Off a rest, my Bess (which is a short-barreled copy of a trade gun) holds all of it's patched balls inside a 3" group at 50yds. I've never shot it without patches though. I did remove the front sight (which doubled as a bayonet lug) and soldered on a nice "turtle" blade (which is more historically correct for a trade gun anyway).
I've used it for deer, turkeys, doves, ducks and geese, pheasants, pigeons, rabbits, squirrels, and I've even shot trap and skeet with it (obviously no doubles though). A smooth-bore is extremely adaptable for a large range of targets or critters. That big round ball (mine's a .75) will knock a deer about 5ft sideways, and it won't go far. I adjust my shot pattern by adjusting my load. I can tighten it down to a 14" diameter at 30yds for turkey, or open it to 40" for doves, even though it's just a plain ol' cylinder...
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That big round ball (mine's a .75) will knock a deer about 5ft sideways, and it won't go far
I'll bet. My Charleville shoots a .69, which is smaller of course, but still impressive in mass. For those unfamiliar with them here's a photo of one of my .69s (actually it's .678) next to a .22LR and a 9mm.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/IMG_20110410_214602.jpg)
Hard to imagine getting hit by one of those...
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Actually, I'm firing .69's out of my .75 Bess as well (patched). Without the rifling you can't use a ball that's as close to the barrel caliber as you normally would. You need a "looser" fit to patch a smooth bore. I use .53's out of my .54 rifle and rifled-barrel pistol.
What is the bore on your Charleville?
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That's cool stuff, I wouldn't mind getting into flintlock or other Pre 1900 firearms. :salute
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What is the bore on your Charleville?
It measures right at .69. I like the .678 because I can load them unpatched easily, but they aren't too loose. I do stuff a small wad of paper on top of the ball just to keep it in place for safety.
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That's cool stuff, I wouldn't mind getting into flintlock or other Pre 1900 firearms. :salute
There are quite a few military flintlock replicas available, usually made in India, that are really pretty inexpensive. That's what my Charleville is. This is my first flint lock, and I have been enjoying it a lot. I plan to acquire a flintlock rifle of higher quality sometime in the future.
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I'll post a picture of my babies later. I've got an assortment of nagants
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I'll post a picture of my babies later. I've got an assortment of nagants
I'd be interested to see them. I have lots of guns, but I think the only thing I really collect is old double barrel shot guns. I have quite a few of them now.
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So I just bought a 91/30 Mosin Nagant. Unfortunately because of californias stupid gun laws I cant pick it up for 10 days. But I also bought 440 rounds online. I cant WAIT till next saturday. Im going to be there 20 min before the store opens, run in, grab it, run out and go clean it. Then going to shoot it! lol
-BigBOBCH
Or you could just buy it 10 days eariler and you would have it now :cheers:
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Or you could just buy it 10 days eariler and you would have it now :cheers:
Naw man, i Live in cali....the stupid state has the 10 day law....gotta wait 10 days to pick the gun up....Trust me, I wish I lived in texas....cant even have concealed in cali unless someone has tried to kill you....im so excited though. I get it next sat, gonna clean it up and take her shooting. My rounds should be here by next wed ;)
-BigBOBCH
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A buddy of mine bought a couple MN's from Buds when they had their clearance sale. Another buddy I came to find out later bought a friggin crate. They shot great and are a hell of a lot cheaper to feed than my hunting and competition habit. I wasn't tasked to clean the goo off of any of them so my experience was made that much more enjoyable.
I made the mistake of adding up how many Mosin Nagants I could have bought for the price of these:
(http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff345/martinguitarist/FirearmsResized.jpg)
These pictured were lost in a tragic boating accident 5 minutes ago just after I took the picture. I don't have any of my primitive guns with me here but a T/C Omega .50 and a Grey Hawk .50 customized with a welding rod front sight reside elsewhere. No NFA guns or accessories pictured. This picture may cause cancer in California.
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Oh no Golfer, the peoples representatives of the democratic republic of Ohio will offer their condolances for the tragic loss of "insert communist joke"
Veeeeerrry nice collection.
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These pictured were lost in a tragic boating accident 5 minutes ago just after I took the picture.
Amazing how often that happens these days.
This is my favorite shot gun in my collection. It belonged to my Great grandfather, and we estimate that it dates from the late 1880s.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/12guage.jpg)
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/lefthammer.jpg)
I have purchased some low pressure shells from a company in Georgia and occaisionally shoot it.
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(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/dcwdavid/12295abd.jpg?t=1303963229)
Here are all of my babies.
top to bottom :
Weatherby 30/06
Finnish M39 (1940)
Ishvek 91/30 (1940) (I bought it for $60 at a gun show with a cracked stock, and fixed it and put a finish with 4 coats of clearcoat)
Tula M38 (1940)
Polish M44 (1954)
Sako M39 (1940)
I have another Tula 91/30 but I didnt have it when I took this picture.
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Also, all of the guns pictured above (except the weatherby, I won that in a raffle) I payed no more than $130 for. The Mosins were a product of about half of a summers work.
edit: If anyone ever has questions about Mosins feel free to send me a PM. I dont know much about stuff, but I do know alot about Mosin Nagants.