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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oneway on May 06, 2011, 01:09:07 AM

Title: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: oneway on May 06, 2011, 01:09:07 AM
You guys seen this yet?

(http://www.cadframers.com/ah/halo_doggie.png)

Woof!

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/05/04/war_dog?page=0,0

(http://www.cadframers.com/ah/war_doggie.png)
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: oakranger on May 06, 2011, 01:14:48 AM
The navy seal team that got Osama bin Laden brought a K-9 with them.  So, no surprising to see the number of K-9s being using on the front line. 
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: oneway on May 06, 2011, 01:19:23 AM
Top photo is a Seal and his mutt setting a HALO record (man+dog)...

And yes...Team 6 had a dog with them on the raid..

 :aok
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: EskimoJoe on May 06, 2011, 01:38:07 AM
Woof, woof!

 :salute to our serving pups!
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Pigslilspaz on May 06, 2011, 01:58:30 AM
And they use only breeds that are REAL dogs (German Shepards, Labs, etc.) Can't stand yippy little fuzzy rats.

Honestly, my only soft spot is for puppies (especially labs). Probably could add any offspring I'll eventually have (and the world will rue the day it let me have a child  :lol)
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: morfiend on May 06, 2011, 11:08:51 AM
Dogs have been valuable wartime assets for years! They've been specially bred as "war dogs" since Roman times and maybe even before that.

  During WW2 all "French Mastifs" were ordered shot on sight which almost ended this breed. Airedale Terriers were used as trench dogs in WW1,they controlled rats,ran messages and carried supplies. Stubbie was a famous pitbull that save many service men in the pacific as he's warn them of incoming rounds long before anyone could here them.

  As resent as 2004 a Newfoundland was awarded the equivalent to the Victoria Cross for protecting wounded Canadian soldiers from many Japanese attack and finally gave his life by removing a grenade that had been thrown in among the wounded solders and none of them could reach it.


  I could go on about plenty of other examples but I wont,instead I'll just stop there and honour them all with a Salute!






       :salute
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: wojo71 on May 06, 2011, 11:49:01 AM
My son told me the other day he will be going to Dog handling school next month with the Marines, I think he will be using a Lab :salute
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: MaSonZ on May 06, 2011, 01:37:42 PM
Dogs have been valuable wartime assets for years! They've been specially bred as "war dogs" since Roman times and maybe even before that. Rottweilers were a common dog for this.

  During WW2 all "French Mastifs" were ordered shot on sight which almost ended this breed. Airedale Terriers were used as trench dogs in WW1,they controlled rats,ran messages and carried supplies. Stubbie was a famous pitbull that save many service men in the pacific as he's warn them of incoming rounds long before anyone could here them.

  As resent as 2004 a Newfoundland was awarded the equivalent to the Victoria Cross for protecting wounded Canadian soldiers from many Japanese attack and finally gave his life by removing a grenade that had been thrown in among the wounded solders and none of them could reach it.


  I could go on about plenty of other examples but I wont,instead I'll just stop there and honour them all with a Salute!






       :salute
Dogs arent called "Mans best friend" for no reason.  :salute to those serving with them.
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Rash on May 06, 2011, 03:10:04 PM
A couple Irish Terriers with mustard gas burns to thier feet during WW1

(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj41/cooked2008/irishterriorburns.jpg)
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Reaper90 on May 06, 2011, 03:35:39 PM
Dogs Rule.

 :salute
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Jayhawk on May 06, 2011, 03:56:42 PM
(http://nbcoutofbounds.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/commandodog.jpg?w=320)
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: AWwrgwy on May 07, 2011, 02:47:35 PM
Someone tell the Canadians that they aren't fighting the Japanese anymore.

Hurry. It's costing dogs their lives.


wrongway
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: morfiend on May 08, 2011, 08:16:29 PM
Someone tell the Canadians that they aren't fighting the Japanese anymore.

Hurry. It's costing dogs their lives.


wrongway


  Totally uncalled for the medal was awarded in 2004 for an act of bravery in 1942!



     :salute
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Penguin on May 09, 2011, 07:46:38 PM
How did the dogs get gas burns on their feet?  Does chlorine gas contaminate soil?

-Penguin
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Babalonian on May 09, 2011, 08:07:38 PM
How did the dogs get gas burns on their feet?  Does chlorine gas contaminate soil?

-Penguin

It's mustard gas burns:
http://www.vlib.us/medical/HMSO/chapter2.htm
Quote
MUSTARD GAS

8. Physical and chemical properties of mustard gas.

A knowledge of the physical and chemical properties of mustard gas is essential to an understanding of its insidious action on the human body. The outstanding features are the following :

Appearance.- In the pure state mustard gas is a clear, heavy and somewhat oily fluid, straw coloured, but in the crude form it is a heavy, dark-coloured, oily liquid.

Odour.-In the absence of chemical methods for the ready detection of mustard gas, the sense of smell is the most reliable guide to its presence. The mustard-like or garlicky odour, though faint in low concentrations, is characteristic of the gas, and it is most important that the smell should be memorized as part of anti-gas training. It is well to remember that mustard gas may produce casualties in concentrations the smell of which may readily escape notice ; also, that the sense of smell tires quickly, and that after a few minutes in a mustard gas atmosphere the smell of the gas may seem to have disappeared.

Boiling Point and vapour Pressure.-The boiling point of mustard gas (2170 C. or 42.30 F.) is high, and its vapour pressure is correspondingly low (0.05 mm. Hg at 100 C., and 0.45 mm. Hg at 400 C.) - hence its slow vaporization at ordinary temperatures and its consequent quality of persistence.

Freezing Point.-The freezing point of pure mustard gas is 14.40 C. (580 F.), while that of the crude variety is considerably lower, viz. 70 to 80 C. (440 to 45.40 F.) - somewhat high freezing points which limit the usefulness of the gas in cold weather, although contact with the frozen material is still a source of danger. It should also be noted that in these circumstances there will be an almost complete absence of the characteristic odour which is often the only indication of the presence of mustard gas.

Density. - Mustard gas has a high specific gravity (1.28 at 150 C. or 590 F.) and, as it is not miscible with water, it readily sinks to the bottom when added to it.

Solubility. Although mustard gas is only very slightly soluble in water (under 1 per cent.), both the liquid and the vapour are freely soluble in animal oils and fats, and it is because of this lipoid solubility that mustard gas finds an easy entry into the skin. Other substances that readily dissolve mustard gas are alcohol, ether, petrol and kerosene, carbon tetrachloride, acetone, carbon disulphide, and many other organic solvents.

Stability.- Both physically and chemically mustard gas is a stable substance; it is unaffected by normal ranges of atmospheric temperature, though simple heat disperses it by hastening evaporation. It is only very slowly hydrolysed by water ; hot water, however, hastens this decomposition, the products of which (hydrochloric acid and thiodiglycol) in ordinary circumstances are practically harmless. For its chemical neutralization strong reagents axe usually required, such as chlorine (as in bleaching powder), potassium permanganate, or other strong oxidizing agents.

Powers of Penetration. - Liquid mustard gas has great powers of penetration, and will soak into all but the most impervious surfaces such as smooth metals, glass and glazed tiles. Like oil it is readily absorbed by clothing, but when small drops of liquid mustard gas fall on clothing any injury which results is as a rule caused by the passage of vapour of mustard gas rather than by the penetration of actual liquid.

Persistence. - Mustard gas is very persistent. Depending on weather conditions it may remain m a liquid and dangerous state for days or even weeks. It may persist under the surface of the ground which appears free of the liquid. Frozen mustard gas may continue to give off vapour slowly for months. As the temperature rises the quantity of vapour given off will increase. The frozen liquid may therefore be carried by boots, etc., to warmer surroundings where it will melt and vaporize.



9. Toxic properties of mustard gas.

Toxicity.- It has already been remarked that, as a casualty producer, mustard gas was the most effective chemical used in the Great War. It is an extremely dangerous substance both in the liquid and in the vapour state, but its action is essentially local, and no general systemic disturbance usually supervenes in the absence of secondary infection. The gas is not selective in its action and any part of the body exposed to it will suffer.

Vapour concentrations.- Atmospheres which contain low concentrations of mustard gas are particularly dangerous, as the comparative absence of smell in such concentrations renders them particularly insidious since the presence of the poison may escape detection and thus cause the exposure to be unduly prolonged.

Insidious characteristics. - The fact that there is no immediate irritation of the skin on contact with the liquid, nor of the eyes and respiratory tract on entering moderate concentrations of the vapour constitutes one of the more serious dangers of this gas, as contamination may be unsuspected. Even when the gas has been detected by its characteristic odour, the sense of smell is soon dulled, or even lost, and the odour will cease to be appreciated. If, however, the respirator is speedily adjusted the odour will be detected whenever the respirator face-piece is raised to "test for gas." It is important to remember, also, that harmful concentrations of the gas can easily be masked by innocuous smokes or by fumes from high explosive, in which case the gas will exert its effects undetected.

Delayed action. - After exposure to mustard gas vapour or contact with the liquid itself no effects are noticed for some time. Signs and symptoms do not begin to appear until after the lapse of some hours, depending on the concentration of the vapour in the atmosphere and the length of exposure thereto. By this time it is too late to ward off the effects of the gas, and casualties result.

Delayed healing. - It has already been stated that the action of mustard gas is local ; the tissues affected are devitalized, they are easily injured by rubbing or pressure, and they are very prone to secondary infection. Where the gas has penetrated deeply, the healing process, even though sepsis be excluded, is very slow owing to damage to capillaries, veins and lymphatics. It is only when the action of the gas is superficial and localized that the condition clears up rapidly.

Sensitivity. - All persons are sensitive to the action of mustard gas, and so far as is known all who have not previously been exposed to its effects possess approximately the same degree of sensitivity irrespective of race or colour.

Acquired hypersensitivity. - In contrast to normal sensitivity it has been found that persons who have suffered injury as a result of exposure to mustard gas may in some cases become hypersensitive to its effects. The condition may be induced by either the liquid or the vapour of mustard gas. It is not possible to say with certainty whether a similar condition may be induced by other types of blister gas, such as lewisite; there is at present no evidence to suggest that this is so.

Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Motherland on May 09, 2011, 08:08:42 PM
How did the dogs get gas burns on their feet?  Does chlorine gas contaminate soil?

-Penguin
Chlorine, sulfur etc. are a lot heavier than nitrogen, oxygen etc.
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Babalonian on May 09, 2011, 08:08:55 PM
Quote
11. Dangers to be anticipated from liquid mustard gas.

The great majority of mustard gas casualties in the Great War were caused by exposure to the vapour emanating from collections of the liquid deposited by shell. In the absence of special protective clothing, mustard gas burns are inevitable unless the normal clothing be removed within a matter of minutes. The appearance of these burns will be delayed, and they will be slight or severe, localized or extensive, according to the number and size of the drops of the liquid on the clothing.

Gross contamination of the body with correspondingly severe results may also occur from splashes of liquid mustard gas due to proximity to a bursting mustard gas shell or bomb.

A more insidious danger from the liquid is represented by contaminated material which may require handling where contamination may not be suspected; or, again, when mustard gas in the frozen state is present, and, owing to the reduction of vaporization under such conditions, it is unwittingly handled on contaminated material or otherwise brought into contact with the skin.

A number of casualties have in the past occurred through accidental splashes of, or contact with, the liquid in factories and shell-filling depots.

<large snip>

(3) Action on the skin.

Before describing the effects of mustard gas vapour on the skin it may be useful to mention some of the factors that influence the penetration of the gas or modify the severity of its action.

As in the case of liquid mustard gas, the vapour owes its penetrative powers to its ready solubility in the lipoid tissues of the skin. The degree of skin burning which follows is accentuated if the exposed skin area be a highly sensitive and tender region such as the apple, or if it be a surface which is subjected to constant friction, as is the case in the neck, the wrist and the ankles.

If the exposed skin surface be bare, the attack of the vapour will be direct, and the result more rapid than if the skin be clothed. This temporary protection of clothed areas is due to the fact that ordinary porous clothing material absorbs the vapour and retards its access to the skin; but if such clothing be worn beyond the period of actual exposure, or if the exposure be prolonged, the vapour retained by the clothing will increase the severity of the resulting skin burns.

This temporary protection varies in duration according to the nature, texture, thickness and degree of humidity of the clothing. Thus, a thin openwork cotton garment in close apposition with the body surface will not greatly retard the access of the vapour to the skin, whereas thick close-woven material, such as serge and woollen clothing generally, will definitely do so, and may even save the area from burns provided that it be discarded on leaving the contaminated area. Again, damp and sweaty clothing will absorb more mustard gas vapour than the same clothing when clean and dry.

After the lapse of the usual latent period, which may vary from two to 48 hours after exposure to the vapour of mustard gas, an erythematous blush appears over the affected area and gradually deepens in intensity until the skin looks scorched.

This redness is not unlike the eruption of scarlet fever, and is usually accompanied by only a slight degree of irritation. The erythema is most marked on the skin areas which are hot and moist; dense tissues like the scalp, the palm of the hand or the skin of the heel usually escape unless the concentration of the vapour be high and localized to that area, as, for example, from drops of liquid mustard gas on a cloth cap.

The affected area soon begins to show superficial blistering in the form of small vesicles which rapidly coalesce to produce large blisters full of a clear yellow serum; on evacuating this fluid and removing the overlying epithelium, a raw, red, weeping surface is exposed.

As a rule, vesication is complete by the second day, but blisters may appear in crops for days following exposure, even though all contaminated clothing be discarded at an early stage. Systemic disturbance is absent, unless the burns are extensive and severe; interference with sleep, however, may be caused by the distressing itching which may accompany the developing burns.

Very mild cases may show simply erythema, (Plate 2) followed later by pigmentation with scurfy desquamation, the "blister" stage being absent.

In severe cases the erythema may deepen to a dusky, almost violet, tint, oedema of the skin is marked, and blisters appear over the dark background overlying a deep red or haemorrhagic base. Such blisters progress slowly, and are very prone to sepsis owing to the serious devitalization of the tissues; ulceration is liable to spread beyond the limits of the blister, and healing is very slow. If sepsis occurs it adds to the severity and duration of all lesions ; the necrosed tissues form an excellent medium for pathogenic organisms, and death may result if extensive or deep burns are thus affected.

The healing of an uncomplicated vapour burn is more rapid than one due to liquid mustard gas, but a common feature of all mustard gas bums is the long time they take to heal. The chemical irritant seriously damages the vitality of the affected tissues, and all processes of skin repair are delayed.

The healed stage is characterized by a brownish or coppery pigmentation of the epithelial layers in the areas previously affected by the erythema. (Plate 3) This staining is superficial, and usually disappears with the normal desquamation of the superficial layers of the skin.

(http://www.vlib.us/medical/HMSO/skin2.jpg)
Plate 3. Buttocks of man who sat on contaminated ground. Drawing made on Day 11.

As a rule, serious after-effects are absent, and the scars resulting from vapour burns are shallow, but a chronic eczematous condition or a generalized furunculosis may, rarely, follow such burns and prove obstinate to treatment.


Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Penguin on May 09, 2011, 08:11:45 PM
Chlorine, sulfur etc. are a lot heavier than nitrogen, oxygen etc.

Oh, so it's like mixing water and say... mercury?

-Penguin
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: morfiend on May 09, 2011, 08:14:18 PM
 The gas was heavier than air by design so it would sink down into the trenches.Since the dogs didnt have protective foot wear they would be subject to the burns shown in the picture above.


 BTW Masonz,the Rottie wasnt around during roman times despite what you may have heard,however they are from the line on Mollosors which were the type of dogs the Romans used. The Rottie is a mastiff's breed that was used mostly to pull carts,like the butcher's cart or ice cart.this is why they are sometimes called the Butchers dog.




       :salute
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Penguin on May 09, 2011, 08:16:08 PM
The gas was heavier than air by design so it would sink down into the trenches.Since the dogs didnt have protective foot wear they would be subject to the burns shown in the picture above.


 BTW Masonz,the Rottie wasnt around during roman times despite what you may have heard,however they are from the line on Mollosors which were the type of dogs the Romans used. The Rottie is a mastiff's breed that was used mostly to pull carts,like the butcher's cart or ice cart.this is why they are sometimes called the Butchers dog.




       :salute

Dogs pulled stuff other than sleds?  I learn something new every day.

-Penguin
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Motherland on May 09, 2011, 08:17:17 PM
Oh, so it's like mixing water and say... mercury?

-Penguin
Actually going from Babalonian's post, mustard gas was distributed from a liquid that vaporized so I guess the dogs probably stepped in puddles (for lack of a better term) of it.

Quote
The great majority of mustard gas casualties in the Great War were caused by exposure to the vapour emanating from collections of the liquid deposited by shell. In the absence of special protective clothing, mustard gas burns are inevitable unless the normal clothing be removed within a matter of minutes. The appearance of these burns will be delayed, and they will be slight or severe, localized or extensive, according to the number and size of the drops of the liquid on the clothing.

Gross contamination of the body with correspondingly severe results may also occur from splashes of liquid mustard gas due to proximity to a bursting mustard gas shell or bomb.

A more insidious danger from the liquid is represented by contaminated material which may require handling where contamination may not be suspected; or, again, when mustard gas in the frozen state is present, and, owing to the reduction of vaporization under such conditions, it is unwittingly handled on contaminated material or otherwise brought into contact with the skin.

A number of casualties have in the past occurred through accidental splashes of, or contact with, the liquid in factories and shell-filling depots.

But yeah, what you said's what I was getting at, a heavy gas like chlorine is going to 'sink' below the nitrogen and oxygen that makes up the vast majority of air particles. You can literally pour a heavy gas.
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Babalonian on May 09, 2011, 08:33:48 PM
Actually going from Babalonian's post, mustard gas was distributed from a liquid that vaporized so I guess the dogs probably stepped in puddles (for lack of a better term) of it.

But yeah, what you said's what I was getting at, a heavy gas like chlorine is going to 'sink' below the nitrogen and oxygen that makes up the vast majority of air particles. You can literally pour a heavy gas.

Any liquid water, be it standing in a puddle, raining from the sky, or soaked into the mud they were all living on in the trenches.
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: morfiend on May 09, 2011, 10:17:01 PM
Dogs pulled stuff other than sleds?  I learn something new every day.

-Penguin

  Yes they did they also worked treadmills to do all kinds of things from pumping water to churning butter!


    :salute
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Pigslilspaz on May 10, 2011, 01:24:38 AM
But yeah, what you said's what I was getting at, a heavy gas like chlorine is going to 'sink' below the nitrogen and oxygen that makes up the vast majority of air particles. You can literally pour a heavy gas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLX96VWTkc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLX96VWTkc)

proof.
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Penguin on May 11, 2011, 07:28:54 AM
  Yes they did they also worked treadmills to do all kinds of things from pumping water to churning butter!


    :salute

:lol That makes me think of the poor hamsters running the servers in Skuzzy's office.

-Penguin
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Rash on May 11, 2011, 10:45:46 PM
The dog on right, looks like it took more damage from gas.  That white area on the face is not normal, and it kind of looks like he/she is in a carring bag.
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: morfiend on May 12, 2011, 08:37:26 AM
The dog on right, looks like it took more damage from gas.  That white area on the face is not normal, and it kind of looks like he/she is in a carring bag.


  The dog on the right appears to be wearing a muzzle,wouldnt surprize me as during treatment they're likely to bite.

  Those terriers were used to control rats and werent exactly "pets" they'd be very game dogs that would not likely take kindly to people handling them,never mind if they were injured!


     :salute
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Curlew on May 12, 2011, 11:38:39 AM
Who let the dogs out!!
 :salute
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: Rash on May 12, 2011, 11:19:44 PM

  The dog on the right appears to be wearing a muzzle,wouldnt surprize me as during treatment they're likely to bite.

  Those terriers were used to control rats and werent exactly "pets" they'd be very game dogs that would not likely take kindly to people handling them,never mind if they were injured!


     :salute

I have one, your right on the rats.  He has a special way too dispatch rats and other rodents.  However, he is very docile in the house and to people in general.  He killed the neighbors rabbit a few weeks ago, but the rabbit got loose and hopped in my yard.
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: morfiend on May 13, 2011, 11:12:31 AM
 Yes Rash I have 2 english staffies that excell in keeping my yard clear of squirrels!

  So there are no squirrels for my protection and HTC has no pictures of me crashing thanks to my dogs. :aok



     :lol :lol












     :salute
Title: Re: Dogs of War (Canine Variety )
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on May 13, 2011, 02:20:29 PM
Bah ... Free hijack in the name of my two vigils.  :neener:

(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/206946_10150169915531308_790661307_6692027_8333616_n.jpg)